We see teams going from hero to zero in one race. Or zero to hero, like Toyota and BMW. We have never seen this before this season.

Is this because of the new aero regulations?

People are still making big steps in understanding the aero rules and the slick tyres, so the balance of power is constantly shifting. It's also exaggerated by the testing ban, so teams are not as prepared for each race as in previous years. If only the first 7 races were like this......

It's because it's much easier to make big performance leaps, and some cars are perfect mechanically but very bad aerodynamically (vide McLaren).

What everybody said, but also the fact the cars are so close together, a 5 tenths step forward puts a team half the grid forward.

A lot of people <coughs>myself included<coughs> expected that. In previous years cars were incredibly well designed as teams had tons of data to cover up or straiten up mistakes, same goes to setups: it was nearly all tip-top on every track, teams would arrive with a rock solid base setup and just fine tune it during FP's. This year teams simulations are a lot further away from reality as there is not enough data to feed the computers with, base setups are im perfect, teams have make a lot more decisions regarding set ups on the race weekend looking so the performance changes from track to track.

Lack of testing.

FIA really aren't right these years, complete head up ass attitudes.

always is.

however now being 0.3s off form at some track will not cause a drop to lower steps of podium (like in other seasons) but a drop to P11!

proper 'pressure' motor racing

It's not really that much more 'track dependant' than any other year.. It's just more visible since the field is so closely packed this year.

Agree to disagree.

I don't like the FIA, however I agree in principle with seeing topsy-turvy grids like today without any "FIA intervention" every so often - its nice not seeing the familiar guys at the front.

But that's how it's always been... Brawn still have overall the best package imo, Button showed that earlier in the year and now Barrichello is showing it in the second half of the season.

Fast circuits like Spa and Barcelona will suit cars which have more downforce and better aero balance while circuits with slower corners like Hungary and Valencia are more down to driver ability and mechanical grip.

Spa is 70% at full throttle with rev-limited engines. There are two very low speed corners where you can really only lose time. The rest is high speed flowing stuff with a low downforce setup: depends fully about who can get the tyres to work best. Aero is so restricted this year so I would expect the differences in aero efficiency are much smaller than for a long time.

Having the field so bunched up is fantastic on a track where you can overtake.

It's bizarre how it seems to be team status dependent.

Manufacturer withdrawal? Need to keep the team alive? Front of the grid and wins for you. Step up Brawn and BMW.

Manufacturer publicly contemplating withdrawal? Front of the grid for you. A win. How can you leave says Bernie.

Government pulling the plug on GP project. Front of the grid for the national team - look at the progress says Bernie.

I smell something fishy.

Dumbest conspiracy theory ever.

second that. In the last two years, Ferrari and McLaren were 0.5 to 1 second in front of everybody else. In the field behind also a lot of mix ups were sometimes a team was tenth and sometimes 16th. Another huge difference is that there are no more teams such as Minardi that are clearly behind the rest. STR and FI are usually slow, but only a bit slower than the rest.

Fisichella gets pole. Imagine him in a Ferrari at Monza. Nice packed stands ;)

Well there are many Spec series where you see exactly what we are seeing now..........

No there aint!

If I asked you before the weekend

What would it take for Fisichella to get genuine pole?

What would your answer have been?

Car improvements, track conditions, and a good lap.

haha bullsh1t and you know it!

Inappropriate tyre constructions, inadequate models, no testing. LH seems to have the the best mechanical set-up - by running the car as a 3 wheeler.

Not that you have seen apparently

Because the cars are so ridiculously close anyway - a small drop in performance (0.2 relative to others) and you lose half a dozen places easy.

Another thing: wacky tyres with very small temperatures operating window, which is very difficult to get right by the teams.

And they wana make the front ones thinner next season! Talk about now the tyers looking ugly soon. I miss thegood old fat wide tyres of the olden days..well not that old lol

I dunno. There's about 45 million Spanish people who think Glock did Hamilton 'a favour' last year...

Because it's all a conspiracy!!!

/sarcasm




There's about 45 million less one Spanish people who think that, because I am Spanish and don't think it.

I actually think the opposite, Glock was the only one who nearly screwed up Hamilton. If he wanted to favour him he would have pitted for wets and get out of the way, remember he was behind him before the rain came.

It's because the cars are much closer in performance, so any variation in tracks is going to affect the positions a lot more. A few years ago we had ferrari and McLaren half a second faster than everyone else, so even if another team was at an advantage at one particular track they had 0.5s to make up. That isnt the case now.

Also all the teams are still learning what the optimum design is for the new rules.

Yeah. Everybody is agreeing and posting the same thing. Tread can be closed now.

Can't have that now can we. It's errr.....because......er......errrr.......oh yeah Bridgestone are manipulating the championship with their 'standard' tyre supply

Actually it's the opposite regarding drivers' skills. High-speed corners are the levelers of talent as you need very good technical skills to drive through them properly - good entry, carring very high speed and good exit, mistake in any of theses phases cost you darely. Slow-speed corners are much more about the car - braking efficiency.

How does that work? You don't honestly think that Fisichella or Sutil are better than Alonso and Hamilton do you as both Force India drivers beat them both in the middle sector... Downforce and aero balance is everything in F1 when it comes to circuits like Spa... it's not like Moto GP where there is only mechanical grip.


You must be off your rocker.

Have you ever driven any racing simulator?

Go and try. There are plenty of them with great physics - rFactor, LFS. Driving properly through high-speed corner is the hardest thing to do in open-wheels. You must be very good technically, and entering properly high-speed corner is very tough (because in high speed every inch out of the proper racing line will cost you darely in later phases of making the corner), then you need to carry the speed and make good exit.

Making slow speed corners is much easier. You just need to find braking point, which is million times easier than making good entry to high-speed corner. And in slow speed even if you miss slighty racing line it won't cost you that much as the slow-speed corners are much shorter - so you're losing time in shorter distance.

It's simple logic and every racing driver will tell you that high-speed corners seperate men from boys. That's why Eau Rouge is considered such a great challange for drivers.

Also have in mind that Silverstone, Spa and Suzuka all are considered as real drivers' circuit - every of this track is most about high-speed corners, coincidence?



No, Force India is simply much better car in high-speed corners, driver's input isn't enough to overcome it. But it doesn't change the fact that high-speed corners are leveler. I'm pretty sure there are drivers who would go in S2 much faster than Fisichella in that FI car.

Oh God.....not another one.


Why is it that everybody on this stinking place is an expert? They've driven this and driven that, designed this or designed that, met him or worked with him, worked here or worked there, blah blah blah.

All you "motorsports" people must have really relaxed jobs if you can find enough time to post here day in and day out to go around putting people right on an internet forum. Get real, people.

It would be quite amusing if it wasn't so pathetic, although I'm not above it myself - I'm actually Michael Schumacher

1. We're not talking about racing simulators here
2. If Formula One was a spec series, you would be right. But it isn't.
3. Slow speed corners have little to do with aero grip, so drivers in otherwise less aerodynamically-efficient cars have a better chance of being able to go quicker than those who drive more aerodynamically-efficient cars

Again you're getting confused here with Moto GP... And I certainly didn't hear Alonso or Hamilton say such things after failing to get into Q3...

Eau Rouge? If you're not taking that flat-out it usually means that you don't have enough downforce or you have too much engine power. I didn't see anyone lifting through there today, it's just flat out nowadays, I see no challenge at all

http://www.forumula1.net/2008/f1/f1-news/l...-spa-challenge/

LH: "It’s one of my all-time favourites. Even before I first came here, which was back in 2002 for a Formula Renault race, I played it on my computer – it was always one of the best tracks. It has probably the most exciting corner in Formula 1, Eau Rouge, and it’s one of the few circuits where you really feel like you’re actually going somewhere; you blast off into the forest and get to the top of the hill and can feel the whole circuit beneath you. It’s one of the best challenges in Formula 1."

And I'm talking about F1 simulators, highly praised by pro drivers (best sims today lack only G forces).

Anyway, I want argue anymore with you. It's just so obvious, and everyone who has any idea about driving open-wheels know that high-speed corners are much tougher than slow speed corners. But there's no driver who can gain 1s in those corners in such a level like F1. There are just too big difference in aero efficiency of different cars.

Yeah, don't you reach something like 5Gs going through there? Must challenge those good ol' neck muscles, something I doubt you'd experience in a simulator

Seems there's a lot of dumb people then - even some running F1 operations.

+1

Glad I read first, that was my response when I saw the thread title.

Great minds think alike. I guess, sometimes, other types of minds also come to the same conclusion. Weird.