The image below shows Felice Bonetto in his Maserati A6G at the Nürburgring German Grand Prix 1952 nonchalantly smoking a pipe. It is reported that disqualification followed. Anybody knowing details?

Paul Sheldon says that he was disqualified for receiving outside assistance. Motor Sport and Autosport both say that he spun on the first lap and came in at the end of the lap to have a wheel changed. Motor Sport says it was a flat tyre, Autosport says it was a thrown tread. Neither mentions disqualification.

It seems possiblethat he received outside assistance after the spin. However, Autosport also says that the accident, which involved Trintingnant and Pietsch, happened not long after the start. It doesn't seemlikely that he limped around most of a lap of the 'Ring.

That picture doesn't do much for the argument that this era of F1 was tougher then the current era. Try smoking a ciggerete while lapping in the modern F1 cars.

For a start, you'd stub it out inside the helmet!
But the argument's not all that convincing, JayWay...

No? Then why don't you respond to it?

There are other threads on the subject... check them out and resurrect one you don't agree with.

No

Some people are destined to be slow learners....

Finish me off with a hammer why don't cha.

It's ok I know you can't disprove my post. Ya know what they say, whenever in doubt, post a smartass remark. You have certainly proved that.

Don Capps,

Excuse me? I asked a question. The fact that he is smoking while driving leads me to doubt the past claims that these cars are harder to drive then modern ones. Having heard the reputation of this forum I expected a civil response either ansewring my question, or leading to hopefully a good debate. Instead I got Ray Bell in his usual smart ass tone telling my argument is not convincing without even backing his claims up. I'm not the one who started this.

Please relax ALL.

I am sorry, but JayWay made a valid question. If you don't want to answer him, or address it, then don't. Sending a non-regular in this forum to search for previous threads is lazyness and not the art of discussion. You don't want to answer someone? then don't answer at all. But don't patronize him and then roll your eyes when he gets upset.

Thank you,

Bira

I guess I asked for that... I did indeed invite JayWay to look at this picture, I thought he'd merely find it humorous. But conversation with him is a testy thing at best, and when he asked his question I chose to answer in the way I did. He's plenty familiar with the board (he's got over 4200 posts up, after all) and he should be able to find these discussions if he chooses to look. And if he was any less 'smart' about it, I may have gone looking some time. But I simply don't have time now.
So, once again, by being friendly to someone I'm made to appear as if I did something wrong. Not so!
Look at the way he refused to search for those older threads... who's being smart?

I will once again reiterate my point: searching through previous threads is not a pre-requisite to starting a discussion. If it was, we'd have about 40 threads running for over a year!

As for the rest that I have to say about this, I will follow up in private.

Hey filling a pipe and lighting it while racing around the 'Ring is pretty tough in my book. Hell just after this shot was taken he drank a fifth of Scotch. They don't make racer's like that anymore!

Dennis David,

I don't understand. Is this a compliment towards the nature of racing in those days?

No it's a joke. The fact that he's smoking a pipe is no reflection on how dificult racing was in those days. Then it was more of an endurance now it's a sprint. Which is harder?

I don't often post here because I don't know as much as people like Dennis David or Don Capps do. But I like reading the threads and look around. There are many interesting stories here - thank you.

But back to this thread: this picture is actually amusing, and yet astonishing too. Indeed, how could one drive while smoking a pipe? You say it was more like endurance back then, but endurace is about cardiovascular stamina, something you do not achieve by smoking. On the contrary. Don't you think it shows that at least driving in races back then demanded less of a physical fitness level than is demanded of drivers today? I seem to recall that the drivers were also much older back then, which also supports the assumption that physically, racing back then took less of a demand on one's fitness. Or am I wrong?

We may be missing an important point here. I doubt very much that he was actually smoking the pipe. More like an affectation I would postulate. This, I believe, speaks to the fitness issue. He was simply gripping it in his teeth in my opinion much like Jimmy Bryan with the cigar in his mouth winning the Indy 500 in 1956. It was his trademark. Call it a more colorful era. Many drivers did that sort of thing. David Pearson though in his heyday in NASCAR would actually light up a cigarette out on the high bankings of NASCAR land. Now that's a much more recent era and I don't think those cars are easy to drive. So that part of the story is hard to sum up. Maybe some of the current crop would adapt something similar if the equipment today (and modern sensibilities) wasn't so confining. My own opinion on the level of fitness required between the different eras is that the top guys did (and do)what it takes to perform at their given level. Physically the older cars took more physical strength and, with the longer races of that earlier era, certainly more stamina. At the same time - while not so demanding in terms of pure strength, I can tell you that the current formula cars (and I will admit to only racing in to the middle formulas- most recently FF2000 - never anything close to an F1 car) are very physically demanding. I think for the very reason that they are so very precise and close to the limit all the time. Braking and cornering forces are astounding. This takes a great toll both physically and mentally. So I haven't answered anything but this is the best I can do in an effort to address the original question in a serious manner. Although I thought Dennis David's line about the quart of scotch or whatever might be just the right touch here.

Frank Gardner once told me that the NASCAR drivers (he was there in the late sixties, I think) had cigar lighters in the cars, and that they would light up during yellow flag periods.
Anything's possible...

Ripples,

I'm with you, I'm not seeing the logic here. Here is a man smoking in a car on the toughest race track every constructed, and it is being ignored.

Dennis,

If it was so enduring back then, then how come that man can smoke on the toughest track in the world, and Jan Magnussen was fired partially because of his fittness and by Jackie Stewarts own words, his tendancy to have a cigerette now and then?

And while the races back then were longer, never did the drivers go as hard for so long as modern day drivers. Back then the drivers couldn't because it was so dangerous to push the limits, nowadays though a driver must push the limits for 2 hours straight to win. Look at Schumacher at Hungary, Hakkinen at Malaysia. Coulthard at Malaysia just last week had to push the limits for two hours straight on a light fuel strategy and he still didn't beat Schumacher. Fittness is SO much more important nowadays, a driver like Schumacher proves what a difference it makes. Guys like Schumacher have set the standard for fitness, I don't think drivers back in the 50's even regularly worked out. Also speaking of sprints, when you consider the comparative pace each era ran for there alloted race time (modern shorter time but races harder, old timers longer time but easier pace) I think the old timers have more of the sprints cause I see footage of old time pitstops, the driver actually got out of his car and took his time drinking a nice glass of cool water. In modern F1 you barely have water because after 5 laps the water is heated to undrinkable tempratures under the hot sun, and ofcourse there is no 5 minute pitstop to collect yourself. For 2 hours straight it is constant thinking, total concentration.

That is another thing there is alot more thinking involved in F1 these days. Aside from going flat out under immense physical pressure, you must be thinking, thinking about strategy, about concerving the car, about your opponents, etc. This again is why a guy like Schumacher is so dominant, because he is able to seperate the physical requirments from the pchyological requirments, and even while going almost flat out for two hours straight, he has enough left in him to make complicated decisions based on his current situation in the race.

I don't think old timers had to do that as often, there wasn't even pit to car radio so how would they if they actually did want to make a change in strategy?


And what is with that Brooks fellow that I have heard about. The dentist who never drove a racecar (I think) and then was hired on the spur of the moment and won his first Grand Prix. This is another thing that makes me doubt these claims of pioneer superiority in skill and requirments.

I hear your arguments that have been put up for so long (and unfortunatly often at the belittlment of others making them look like immature nitwits, which is far from the truth) but there are so many questions that go unanswered. And like this thread they seem to be avoided at all costs.

What evidence do we have thst bonetto was racing when the picture was taken?

since my original post, I've looked at tte Autsport after the week that contained the race report. t says that he made a pit stop at the end of the first lap and spun shortly afeterwards. It was after this second spin that he received asistance which led to his disqualification.

It is therefore possible that te picture was taken when he was driving back to the pits knowing that he had been disquaified.

I don't have evidence. It was RayBell who informed of this picture. But what else would he be doing? The car is in motion.

See my last paragraph

How did he get the pipe though?

Felice Bonetto was racing with a pipe in his mouth, not just at the Nürburgring. His racing pipe clenched between his teeth; that was his trademark but not applied at every race.

Barney Oldfield for example drove with his cigar in his mouth; that was his trademark. He just held it between his teeth, he did not smoke while racing.

Thinking of another driver with a trademark was Phi-Phi Etancelin, who wore a regular tweed cap back to front as had been the fashionable headgear during the Twenties. Everybody else wore at least a racing cap or helmet.

As everyone in this thread seems to be missing the point, I might as well join in.

Did Bonetto receive outside assistance when lighting his pipe? Then he was rightly disqualified. The rules clearly state that you should always light your pipe yourselves.

Great picture, Michael...

But seriously, I guess the older cars were more dangerous to drive at full speed, not necessarily more difficult. And you should understand that the sport wasn't half as professional as it is today and received less than a tenth of the worldwide attention it gets now. The construction quality and the materials used have hugely improved, allowing faster cornering speeds and greatly enhanced safety. Also, driving on the absolute limit for three 30-minute stints is somewhat different than doing a three-hour race in a sleeveless shirt, a cloth helmet and no seat belts whatsoever, in cars oversteering all over the place. Or is it? Both seem very tough to me.

But then you see a totally unexperienced teenager like Kimi Raikkonen jump straight into Sauber from F Renault and he immediately does well. So how hard to drive can today's cars really be?

Does Piquet collapsing on the podium mean the 80s cars were the toughest of all? Or does it merely prove Nelson didn't care about keeping himself in shape?

The sport has undoubtedly progressed in many ways - there's just no comparison. Although it's very tempting to do so...

But that's another thread: http://www.atlasf1.com/bb/showthread.php?threadid=11454

Additionally, improvements to circuits, and the increased number of circuits that are available for frequent testing, means the drivers can go to greater extremes with relation to their environment... particularly with universal rules applied to fencing and safety barriers.
Drivers in bygone times were also called upon to regularly be swapping cars. Moss at one time drove five cars at one meeting, from memory, and won in most of them, I think. But with the Mille Miglia one week, the Syracuse GP the next and so on, their lives were filled with totally different events, circuits and cars.

I think some people are trying to make a big deal out of nothing here. Drivers - or many of them - always have had a touch of showman in them and it has been displayed in different ways: sleeveless T-shirt, white shirt and tie, cloth cap back to front, green velvet jacket, scarf flying in the wind, checquers around the helmet, cigar or pipe in the mouth... Today's drivers have personalised helmet colours because that's all you can see.
I doubt that Bonetto's pipe was lit, just as Barney Oldfield's cigar never was. Barney once said he gritted his teeth so hard when he raced, if he didn't have the cigar he would have broken his teeth.
Personally, I would have been concerned about the effects of a pipe stem stuck through the back of my neck, but Bonetto obviously knew he would never crash...

Everyone is making the conceptual leap that this picture was taken during the race. It is entirely possible that it was taken during practice, which was by far the best time to take pictures quite often. Bonetto was a true Character and the pipe just another another part of his persona. Somewhere there is another picture of Bonetto with the pipe firmly quenched between his teeth taken at Monza if I recall.

As to the question of Bonetto, apparently there was an incident, as mentioned, in the South Curve area with a wheel/ tire problem for Bonetto as a result. It seems Bonetto used the pit turn-around to get to the pits for work and was either disqualified later or the damage was dome. This is from memory and reading a contemporary report on the race last week -- had I known this question was going to be asked I would have read it more closely.

As for Jay's point about our ingnoring it, Barry sums it up nicely. Hawthorn wore a bow tie, Phi-Phi wore his cap the way he did, some raced in coat & tie, Carroll Shelby and his bib overalls (ditto for Junior Johnson on a few occasions), Tim Flock and 'Jocko Flocko'and so forth and so on. Things were just a bit more relaxed in certain areas than today. The mandatory use of a "helmet" in Europe did not receive universal approval at the time. Worldwide, it was a truly eclectic raindow of amateurs and professionals.

It was simply the way things were, just as the way things are today.

Can you guys please define a sprint for me?

If we are talking about race strategy then yes todays drivers do take part in sprints. But thats not what we are talkinga bout, we are talking about the physical demands of the sport. And in now way do I see how a 15 second pitstop where the driver is still working to keep the reves up facilitates a sprint. If anything the old drivers were on sprints because of the long pitstops they had which let them stetch there legs and get water. Like I said before the drivers today do not get water because after 10 or so laps under the sun the water is at undrinkable tempratures.

Racer Demon,

Although it's quite trivial, I think minus the fire risk most drivers today would much rather drive in a short sleeve shirt then the hot driving suits they are forced to work with these days. Jacques Villeneuve once said that he often urinated in the car during a race if he needed to, it didn't matter because he couldn't even tell the difference because his racing suit was drenched in sweat anyways. When you are so drenched in sweat that you don't even notice peeing on yourself, I think that represents some pretty hefty demands don't you think?

Don,

Sorry, but the fact you say drivers had time to look cool for the cameras during practice only makes me more doubtfull of that era. These days if a team slips up one little but during any free practice, or suffers a breakdown, that team is put way back in there progress for that weekend, it screws everything up, small messups in Friday practice often and easily affect the teams preformance in the race, and since many teams concentrate seperatly on qualifying and the race, the practices and every single lap they run are even more important.

Time to show off for the cameras, makes practice seem like a trivial duty that no one takes seriously. That doesn't give me the idea that the work rate was that high. There wasn't as much demand on the driver outside the car on the technical side as there is today. Compare the story of Jacques Villeneuve, when he suffered a mechanical breakdown in practice at I believe it was Spa (not sure). It was his birthday, and his team had setup a surprise party in the pits and were going to surprise him when he returned to the garage area. When Jacques got there after just returning from his broken down car, he was met with shouts of "surprise!". Jacques looked at them with disgust and just walked off leaving the whole team stunned. Jacques explained that he was sickened to see the team slacking off at such a time where they should be working two times as hard to gain back lost progress from the breakdown. Now seeing what happened there, i'd imagine he would look at you like your crazy if you suggested to him that he take it easy in practice and use it to get good photos of himself.

Jay,

I don't see me using the word "sprint", nor did anyone else but yourself. Also, I gave you the fact that the sport has progressed over time and is much more professional than in the old days. In fact, I wholly agree with you that today's drivers are better all-round sportsmen than the top drivers 50 years ago. But that also applies to football, athletics, you name it. In every sport people have set new standards over the century and have become better than those before them, beating previously unchallenged records. So what's the deal? It's a rather mute point to make.

That doesn't mean you have to belittle the performances of those who were at the top of their game in the old days. (And, frankly, Bonetto wasn't one of them.) The champions of the past were the best with what they had available, in a form their environment allowed them to be in. Why is that reason to be "doubtful" of the era? This is not a contest between today and the past, or is it?

It'd better not be since today will become the past very soon, and we'll be laughing at this era from our graves.

Apart from that, how about this?

If it's not to emphasize sprints, then what is the point of bringing up stints?

You said it's impossible to compare small stints in a 2 hour race to a 3 hour race, but I don't see how. One hour longer maybe, but modern drivers go flat out for 90% of the time.

And whos bilittling any drivers? I'm not the one labelling them "pampered princes".

As for Raikkonen, he has a lot more experienced then a dentist who is asked on the spur of the moment to drive in a grand prix, and then wins.

Racer.Demon it was Dennis David that first used the comparison of sprint vs endurace in this thread:

Jay,

I hate to tell you this but you keep attributing opinions to me that I don't have or support.

First, I said that three half-hour stints were *somewhat different* than three-hour races, not that it was "totally impossible" to compare them. You might try and do so but what's the use? I just put that in to paint the larger picture of what we're in for if we were to try and compare the two eras, not to pass judgement on one or the other. I don't think there is any need to compare the two, and one is not necessarily "better" than the other.

Second, I don't share all of the opinions of this forum's admin, and in this case I certainly don't. You, on the other hand, are "doubtful" of the era of the past on the ground that those guys apparently didn't work or sweat hard enough to your liking and instead just played around in practice or had too much time on their hands in general.

I actually said performances in any sport will become better over time - they always do. I am not your opponent in this. But you seem to want to oppose anyone who happens to love the old days, which perhaps to their mind was more fun because of personal memories, because there was less money involved, maybe even because it *was* more amateuristic. Those are people's personal views, not empirical truths.

However, in case you are overreacting in your statements because you feel the need to defend today's drivers against the patronizing attacks from die-hard nostalgics who have come to think that everything in the past is better, then I'd say you're totally right to fight back ;)

If so, point duly taken. No argument there.

Third, to put things in perspective, Brooks was a keen national racer for three seasons, and part of Aston Martin's sportscar team for 1955 before he got the invitation to race a Connaught at Syracuse, a non-championship event which wasn't even very well entered that year. Before he had had previous experience of the car at minor events such as Crystal Palace, Aintree and Castle Combe. So the call for Syracuse didn't exactly come out of the blue.

Raikkonen has one season of national F Renault racing. That's it. Surely you will agree that, at first sight, it's bordering on the absurd that on this merit alone he might be entrusted a race seat at Sauber. Still, he's turning in the times, so good for him.

I personally believe that today's F1 cars are best suited to former karters - which is why Raikkonen is proving to be so quick without having any noteworthy experience. In that respect, they are "easy" for some drivers, like Button and Trulli, while those who star in F3000 (and this is also starting to apply to F3) aren't really bred for today's F1. I agree with CVAndrw in another thread, who claims that CART and IRL seem to be the logical follow-up to F3000 nowadays, instead of F1. Also, technologically, F3000 isn't really the Junior F1 category it's supposed to be. In the past F2 was much closer to F1 and really meant something. Then, in the turbo age, you needed experience to get a full load of the power behind your back - which in qualifying was almost twice as much as in today's cars. In that respect I think that for many drivers the cars of the 80s were harder to drive than today's cars - at least they asked for other strong points in a driver. But that's just an opinion, and not my way of degrading the performances of today's F1 drivers ;)

BTW, thanks for sparking off the most heated discussion on TNF for months. Usually, we're very kind to each other over here!

I'm sorry but I can't agree with the logic that because today's drivers are fitter that this means that the racing now is more demanding. I've run in sprints as well as half marathons and let me tell you the latter was a lot more difficult regardless of the fact that I was not going all out for the entire duration. No offence but today's races are a walk in the park compared to what drivers had to endure in the past. Hell if I get up to go to the loo by the time I get back the race is halfway over. Can you seriously compare tracks like the Hungaring or the new Nurburgring to the old Spa or ’Ring not to mention the Mille Miglia or Targa Florio? Try driving up the Grosglockner in the fog and imagine racing a 600hp fishtailing monster up the same road. That’s my last word on this tiring subject.

I don't know if today's Formula 1 races are more demanding than the races of the 50's or in the pioneer days, because I didn't drive in any of them.
But I do know it was tough in the early years. In one race, when Barney Oldfield came into the pits after winning a race it took several men just to prise his hands off the steering wheel. And drivers in those days were more demonstrative too. On his last lap of that race he waved to the crowds all the way down the main straight.

And in which era have we seen more pictures of drivers hands bleeding from the blisters?
Gurney drove the Dutch GP of 1962 with his hand being cut up by a broken gearlever... that would be a retirement today, I would expect. Certainly, we heard all about it when Schumacher finished a race with only one gear available.

"However, in case you are overreacting in your statements because you feel the need to defend today's drivers against the patronizing attacks from die-hard nostalgics who have come to think that everything in the past is better, then I'd say you're totally right to fight back"

Yes that is it. Sorry if i came on strong, but a history of badmouthing by some of the regulars here in RC over modern F1 has made me defensive and anticipate this. It is nothing with you.

"No offence but today's races are a walk in the park compared to what drivers had to endure in the past."

It is these comments that get my mad. How do you KNOW this? Have you been in modern F1, or old time F1?

You say that more required fittness doesn't equal tougher races. But I think alot of what you have been going on is more danger equals tougher races, which is absolutely not true.

You keep on bringing up the word spring. But what sprint?? Two hours at flat out driving in heavy driving suits with no water, while doing heavy thinking calculating the circumstances I think pretty much equals a 3 hour race.

"Can you seriously compare tracks like the Hungaring or the new Nurburgring to the old Spa or ’Ring not to mention the Mille Miglia or Targa Florio?"

No I can't, but I don't think driving at Spa in the wet with rooster tails blocking your view is any less difficult today then it was back then.

While the current circuits are much easier and cookie cutter I think there is a tradeoff in qualifying. At a track like Nurburging the old one on a hotlap you could make a mistake but make it up because it was such a long lap, if you make TINY mistake on any of the current circuits in qualifying your lap is done. You have to be near perfect. This is why the times are so close.

Another pic of the smoking Mr Bonetto... Coppa Giorgio e Alberto Nuvolari, Mantova, Jun 13, 1948.

Felice Bonetto?? Curious, I open the thread, see a wonderful picture, and find a war going on.

JayWay, you've being doing a pretty good job standing your ground, and thanks for that. For me, I agree that today's drivers are physically fitter than those of yesteryear, and I see no reason to think that racing was anymore difficult then than now. I DO know I got to see more of the different sorts of skills the drivers were using, and that leaves more appreciation and enduring memories.

Whilst driving at Spa in the rain is just as difficult today as it was, it is a lot less dangerous. Less dangerous in the sense of leaving the track in a wooden box,
which, by and large, was the penalty for trying to get cheeky with the old circuit. JV may have thought it fun to take on Eau Rouge flat and end up bouncing off the barriers, but that attitude would have meant big time trouble in earlier years. The key word is "attitude". The old Silverstone circuit could reward to a 'speed happy' approach, but you couldn't take that to the old Spa or Nurburgring circuits. Nor to Monaco for that matter, but a mistake there usually meant a broken car.

That dimension, coupled with the durability of car and the driver, meant there was probably just as much attention to strategy as now. How much can't be measured, but fatal conseqences are not part of the equation now, thank goodness.

Now, I'll go back to enjoying those pictures...

Does anyone know if he really was smoking or doing a Carl Haas (just chewing on an unlit pipe, in the Bonetto case) ?

Rainer

thought i'd jump in here as it seems no one on this thread has spent time behind the wheel of a pre-war grand prix car......i have.. i've vintage raced a bunch of open wheel cars on asphalt and dirt and i can assure you all that it takes skill,nerve and a tremendous amount of sheer physical strength to just lap at moderate speeds....after a few seasons of driving my T37 bugatti[4 cyl,unblown]...i finally got my T35b running[8cyl,blown]..what a bugger to drive even moderatly fast!!!!i won't go into details,but the image of having your hands pried off the steering wheel is not too far from the truth....after even 10 laps at laguna seca in the bug,i can barely stand up....as for the pipe..i suspect he's just got it in his teeth ,as one needs all of ones hands and feet to manhandle a car of this era...i also might add that riding mechanics of the 20's and 30's regularly needed a good strong shot of brandy to even get in the car.....and i'm sure more than a few drivers required "fortification"as well...we tend to idealize drivers of this era...when in fact they were often pretty rough characters....it reminds me of the early harley-davidson "factory" racing team known affectionatly as the"wrecking crew" some of whom had been recruited from local drinking estabishments and boxing venues and regularly had to be bailed out of jail for post race "disagreements".

Fines, do you mean with "smoking" the tyres?
Btw, what car it on the picture?

No Michael, look at the cigarette in his mouth. The car is a D46 Cisitalia, of course.

Is that not also a pipe? Looks like it might be.

Just passing through - in a great rush, trying not to destroy my life by posting comments on Atlas F1 rather than doing all the work I have backlogged.
However, mention of Carl Haas and his cigars reminded me of a funny story I have - along with photographic evidence.
I was going to write it for Motor Racing Australia and head it something along the lines of "How to get an attractive lady doctor upside down in a wheelie bin".
I have the Haas-chewed cigar in a plastic bag in my laundry - and a photo in a box somewhere.
Remind me to tell you the full story some day...

Don't expect this too soon, lads, I've seen how many boxes he has...

I was in two minds whether to bring this thread back 'specially considering most of the content,as opposed to starting a new one, but the 9th June 2003 marks a significant milestone - what would've been Felice Bonetto's 100th birthday.
Anybody want to add anything else about Felice not already covered. I don't really know all that much about him bar the basics & he was, after all, a considerably talented driver.

see the Alfas in the Schlump museum thread for information on the Tipo 412 that Bonetto drove in the 1950 and 1951 Mille Miglias. He also drove any number of small displacement Italian sports racers in the late 40s...the best know of which had a Gilco tube chassis, a body by Colli, and was constructed by Tinarelli (the car was Fiat based)..

Man, I can't beleive that I've been a member this long and never discovered this thread! And I'm a pipe smoker!

Actually, it speaks to me that he is "smoking" a pipe in the car in at least 2 images, as the buffeting would have been pretty unpleasant, not to mention the vibration. I suspect that it is an affectation, a trademark, so to speak, like Bryan's cigar/ However, just holding it in his mouth around the 'Ring is impressive enough for me! I remember riding my Norton Interstate motorcycle (complete with fairing, saddle bags, etc.) down Interstate 81 in Virginia in the mid-'70s with a bent pipe in my mouth and had to take it out after about 10 miles or so as it got so hot it was actually burning the briar, not just the tobacco! Talk about tongue bite! And, what if he (or I, for that matter!) would be in an accident? The damage a pipe could cause is seriously frightening!

My 2 cents worth . . .

Bobbo