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BMW_F1
QUOTE (billm99uk @ Nov 24 2009, 22:40) *
Pretty strange when there are two US drivers testing F1 cars:

Force India to test Di Resta, Hildebrand

BMW to test Rossi, Gutierrez

And neither of them is USF1 confused.gif


Di Resta is not from the US and Rossi earn that test for winning the Formula BMW..
sir jackie walker
Rossi will have his test for winning F.BMW World Finals. Of Hildebrand I do not know.

Btw, I compiled a list on persons eligible for Super Licence a while ago. It should be somewhere in the Silly Season thread.

edit
http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?show...t&p=3959986
nordschleife
QUOTE (billm99uk @ Nov 24 2009, 10:40) *
Pretty strange when there are two US drivers testing F1 cars:

Force India to test Di Resta, Hildebrand

BMW to test Rossi, Gutierrez

And neither of them is USF1 confused.gif


It's confusing if one begins with the assumption that teams' hiring practices are driven by jingoism. However when drivers' abilities are the litmus test F1 is shown to be a noble global platform that is focussed on merit. Since those teams (Force India and Sauber) actually have cars that can be utilized for an audition those drivers ("... we were the young Americans ...") should feel honoured.



loki
QUOTE (highdownforce @ Nov 24 2009, 15:52) *
That's right. I've checked the stands on wikipedia to realize that too.
Danica the best US' OW driver...


Not quite. Most popular for sure. She's had some good runs but the reason she's where she is in the points is because she is stronger on ovals than Andretti and Rahal and they've made some good fuel strategy calls. Of the 17 races 10 are on ovals. On road and street circuits they both beat her pretty handily. There are 5 US drivers of the 18 drivers that run a full season in ICS, those three plus Hunter-Reay and Carpenter. Carpenter is Tony George's stepson. Hunter Reay was lucky to have a ride this year at all and was kept around because the new title sponsor, Izod, is his personal sponsor. He didn't have the crew, engineers or car for even a mediocre run this year.
DFV
QUOTE (vapaokie @ Nov 24 2009, 18:25) *
I raise the same question as I always do when this ridiculous pendantic argument comes up, since I've yet to recieve a reasonable answer. What exactly would you call someone from the United States of America in order "to be a bit more precise in the description of nationaltilites" rather than use the extremely commonly accepted term "American?" How about "USAan?" Please enlighten me as to what other term exists short of the mouthful- "person from the United States of America" (as there are or have been other countries with the term United States in their name).

I would think that the Argentinian in question would first prefer to be referred to as an Argentinian before being referred to as American; much as I think that a German would rather be called a German before a European, an Egyptian be called an Egyptian before an African, a Chinese person be called Chinese before an Asian, etc., etc., etc.


But what you are writing isn't really the problem. As I have said, I agree that in everyday speak, American is a common description of someone from the USA. But it can also mean any other American country (especially in any other language than English).

My point is that people are commenting that Lopez isn't an American (which is false). It would be, to use one of your examples, the same as saying that a German isn't a European.

I have no problem with people calling a US citizen an American, my problem is when someone says that an Argentinian is not an American. I'm sure Lopez also considers himself an Argentinian first and foremost, but Argentine is in America and he is, by definition, also an American.
ezequiel
QUOTE (sir jackie walker @ Nov 23 2009, 17:37) *
I already posted on the other thread, but: it's about semantics. In English 'an American' means a person from USA. Whether it's arrogant or not, it's the meaning (or actually 1 meaning) of the word. It can also mean a person from Americas, but meaning is set by context. When Windsor and Anderson start a team called USF1 and say they want 'American drivers', it's kind of obvious...



It's far more complex than that. In first place, if it is absolutelly logical to call someone from the United States of Brazil a Brazilian, or someone from the United States of Mexico a Mexican, it should be logical to call someone from the United States of America and American. The problem here is: what kind of country takes the name of the whole continent for itself? The USA was born and based on the legacy of the French Revolution about equality among all human beings, anti-imperialism, etc. Some time ago, Barack Obama said that the USA wasn't meant to be an "empire", that the bases of the country were against that. He is not completely wrong, but the truth is that there is a deep contradiction in the self base of the USA: its constitution is supposed to be against impaerialism, but in the facts they have always behaved as an empire, and not only because of taking the name of the whole continent just for themselves, but also for the expansionism they showed from their beginning, heading wars against Mexico to take territory or, correct me if I am wrong on this, trying to add Canada to the Union too. The USA saw itself from the beggining as a whole continent.
highdownforce
QUOTE (loki @ Nov 24 2009, 17:05) *
Not quite. Most popular for sure. She's had some good runs but the reason she's where she is in the points is because she is stronger on ovals than Andretti and Rahal and they've made some good fuel strategy calls. Of the 17 races 10 are on ovals. On road and street circuits they both beat her pretty handily. There are 5 US drivers of the 18 drivers that run a full season in ICS, those three plus Hunter-Reay and Carpenter. Carpenter is Tony George's stepson. Hunter Reay was lucky to have a ride this year at all and was kept around because the new title sponsor, Izod, is his personal sponsor. He didn't have the crew, engineers or car for even a mediocre run this year.

Would you care to elaborate the final stands of the road courses only?
noikeee
QUOTE (BMW_F1 @ Nov 24 2009, 17:49) *
Di Resta is not from the US and Rossi earn that test for winning the Formula BMW..


Hildebrand is from the US.
progrocks
QUOTE (ezequiel @ Nov 24 2009, 14:13) *
The USA was born and based on the legacy of the French Revolution about equality among all human beings, anti-imperialism, etc.


The French Revolution started after the American Revolution, and the rest is dubious also, so take all of that with a grain of salt. We are "Americans" because it is the most natural shortening of the entire name of the country, USofA. Why would any other country in the hemisphere refer to their citizens as such? Makes no sense. They could, but no one does, so this has been about 40 posts of stupidity on this thread.

PW said he hoped to have a US driver, and i expect if they stick around on the grid, probably will within 3 years, but there is no one ready to jump in the car today (though if the car is even close to middle of the grid, I would love to see Rahal in it soon.)
ezequiel
QUOTE (progrocks @ Nov 24 2009, 20:32) *
The French Revolution started after the American Revolution, and the rest is dubious also, so take all of that with a grain of salt. We are "Americans" because it is the most natural shortening of the entire name of the country, USofA. Why would any other country in the hemisphere refer to their citizens as such? Makes no sense. They could, but no one does, so this has been about 40 posts of stupidity on this thread.

PW said he hoped to have a US driver, and i expect if they stick around on the grid, probably will within 3 years, but there is no one ready to jump in the car today (though if the car is even close to middle of the grid, I would love to see Rahal in it soon.)



The USA didnt appear in the face of the earth suddenly after july 4th 1776. It took many more decades to form itself as a nation (the same could be said about Argentina: after july 9th 1816 there was nothing like an actual Republic of Argentina for decades). And I was quite clear when I said it was absolutely logical to call someone from the USA and American as someone for the United States of Brazil is a Brazilian.
highdownforce
QUOTE (ezequiel @ Nov 24 2009, 17:43) *
The USA didnt appear in the face of the earth suddenly after july 4th 1776. It took many more decades to form itself as a nation (the same could be said about Argentina: after july 9th 1816 there was nothing like an actual Republic of Argentina for decades). And I was quite clear when I said it was absolutely logical to call someone from the USA and American as someone for the United States of Brazil is a Brazilian.

Federative Republic of Brazil.
ezequiel
QUOTE (highdownforce @ Nov 24 2009, 20:45) *
Federative Republic of Brazil.


My mistake, sorry. But Mexico is the US of Mexico or, better said, Mexican US, though I think it hasnt been always like that.

EDIT: oh, and Brazil was called US of Brazil at some moment of its history, wasn't it?
billm99uk
QUOTE (paranoik0 @ Nov 24 2009, 19:31) *
Hildebrand is from the US.


Thanks. Yeah, Californian apparently.

QUOTE (sir jackie walker @ Nov 24 2009, 17:50) *
Rossi will have his test for winning F.BMW World Finals. Of Hildebrand I do not know.


He's the Indy Lights champ. Had a good run at Brands recently in A1GP too. Made Marco look a bit of a tugger in comparison.

QUOTE (nordschleife @ Nov 24 2009, 18:09) *
It's confusing if one begins with the assumption that teams' hiring practices are driven by jingoism. However when drivers' abilities are the litmus test F1 is shown to be a noble global platform that is focussed on merit. Since those teams (Force India and Sauber) actually have cars that can be utilized for an audition those drivers ("... we were the young Americans ...") should feel honoured.


Yeah, I wouldn't normally comment on it, but from the PR fluff, that seemed the whole "raison d'etre" of USGPE...

highdownforce
QUOTE (ezequiel @ Nov 24 2009, 17:47) *
My mistake, sorry. But Mexico is the US of Mexico or, better said, Mexican US, though I think it hasnt been always like that.

EDIT: oh, and Brazil was called US of Brazil at some moment of its history, wasn't it?

Yes, it was.
From 1891 to 1969 it was called the United States of Brazil.

No need to apologize yourself.
loki
QUOTE (highdownforce @ Nov 24 2009, 20:19) *
Would you care to elaborate the final stands of the road courses only?


The qualifying and race results are on the Indycar site but basically Rahal bested both Patrick and Andretti in qualifying by 1 to 2 secs each time on road or street circuits. At the Glen he did fail a post qual inspection and was docked 10 spots. Andretti is typically a couple tenths faster than Patrick in the same car (well, they all have the same car, I should say on the same team). OTOH Newman/Haas/Lanigan seems to struggle on the ovals with Rahal and he's historically not a particularly strong oval driver though had some good oval runs this year. He crashed out at Toronto and had a mechanical at Sears Point. I think more than anything that Penske and Ganassi are so much better than the other teams that even with equal driver talent the nod would have to go to those two teams just based on team experience and depth of engineering resources. Patrick has one more top 10 (10 to 9) than Rahal but he had 2 poles, she had none. They both had 5 top 5s.
highdownforce
QUOTE (loki @ Nov 24 2009, 18:15) *
The qualifying and race results are on the Indycar site but basically Rahal bested both Patrick and Andretti in qualifying by 1 to 2 secs each time on road or street circuits. At the Glen he did fail a post qual inspection and was docked 10 spots. Andretti is typically a couple tenths faster than Patrick in the same car (well, they all have the same car, I should say on the same team). OTOH Newman/Haas/Lanigan seems to struggle on the ovals with Rahal and he's historically not a particularly strong oval driver though had some good oval runs this year. He crashed out at Toronto and had a mechanical at Sears Point. I think more than anything that Penske and Ganassi are so much better than the other teams that even with equal driver talent the nod would have to go to those two teams just based on team experience and depth of engineering resources. Patrick has one more top 10 (10 to 9) than Rahal but he had 2 poles, she had none. They both had 5 top 5s.

Thanks for that.
sir jackie walker
QUOTE (ezequiel @ Nov 24 2009, 21:13) *
It's far more complex than that. In first place, if it is absolutelly logical to call someone from the United States of Brazil a Brazilian, or someone from the United States of Mexico a Mexican, it should be logical to call someone from the United States of America and American. The problem here is: what kind of country takes the name of the whole continent for itself? The USA was born and based on the legacy of the French Revolution about equality among all human beings, anti-imperialism, etc. Some time ago, Barack Obama said that the USA wasn't meant to be an "empire", that the bases of the country were against that. He is not completely wrong, but the truth is that there is a deep contradiction in the self base of the USA: its constitution is supposed to be against impaerialism, but in the facts they have always behaved as an empire, and not only because of taking the name of the whole continent just for themselves, but also for the expansionism they showed from their beginning, heading wars against Mexico to take territory or, correct me if I am wrong on this, trying to add Canada to the Union too. The USA saw itself from the beggining as a whole continent.


The Revolution was hardly based on the French one, preceding it. And if you bother to think of the context in which the name "United States of America" was created, it is pretty logical. It was a confederation of rebellious states situated in America. Canada and Mexico, for example, remained under colonial rule. Consider that USA was the only independent political entity in the (two) continent(s) at the time of its creation. And lastly, I don't think the conceivers of the union had any plans of sovereignty/suzerainty over South America. I think they genuinely regarded themselves as Americans.
nordschleife

What a tempest in a teacup! But I guess any point of contention will do until Bahrain.

How about this. Holding a carnival barker like Peter Windsor to an airtight truth-in-advertising standard is like expecting to be able to grasp mercury. If he puts two cars on the grid next year who cares how he finessed the funding? That's more than Toyota and BMW will. He's not the first fast talker to get an entry and I'm guessing he's more savoury than the lowlifes at Qadbak.

Go Rossi! Both of em.

Repco von Brabham
The british newspaper "The Sun", say today:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport...with-Yanks.html


clap.gif clap.gif



Regards
Captain Tightpants
The Sun is a tabloid, Repco. They're about as reliabe as paper shoes in bad weather.
vapaokie
QUOTE (ezequiel @ Nov 24 2009, 15:43) *
The USA didnt appear in the face of the earth suddenly after july 4th 1776. It took many more decades to form itself as a nation (the same could be said about Argentina: after july 9th 1816 there was nothing like an actual Republic of Argentina for decades). And I was quite clear when I said it was absolutely logical to call someone from the USA and American as someone for the United States of Brazil is a Brazilian.


Let's see 12 years is many more decades? US consititution written 1787, ratified in 1789 replacing the articles of confederation. French revolution from 1789-1799. Which exactly inspired the other?
vapaokie
QUOTE (DFV @ Nov 24 2009, 15:08) *
But what you are writing isn't really the problem. As I have said, I agree that in everyday speak, American is a common description of someone from the USA. But it can also mean any other American country (especially in any other language than English).

My point is that people are commenting that Lopez isn't an American (which is false). It would be, to use one of your examples, the same as saying that a German isn't a European.

I have no problem with people calling a US citizen an American, my problem is when someone says that an Argentinian is not an American. I'm sure Lopez also considers himself an Argentinian first and foremost, but Argentine is in America and he is, by definition, also an American.



I'll take your statement at face value, and accept you aren't simply trying to create a larger argument.

But this argument is usually started by people with far larger axes to grind than technical correctness in the use of language (see ezequiel's posts). It is quite clear and understood that when someone locates a team in Charlotte, NC and terms the effort to be an "American" effort (drivers, technology, etc.), they are talking about USA citizens and technology.

This BS argument that comes up time and again usually does so to give a platform to lecture about how insular and myopic people from the USA supposedly are, usually devolving into arguments about the name of baseball's World Series, and the correct name of the major world sport of football (which our supposed jingoism leads us to call it soccer to differentiate it from our game we call football). Wow, I'm really digressing now.

My point is it's absurd to go on these rants about how insular people from the USA are on a board heavily populated by said people discussing a major world sport that is only minor in the USA!
packapoo
QUOTE (vapaokie @ Nov 25 2009, 04:07) *
I'll take your statement at face value, and accept you aren't simply trying to create a larger argument.

But this argument is usually started by people with far larger axes to grind than technical correctness in the use of language (see ezequiel's posts). It is quite clear and understood that when someone locates a team in Charlotte, NC and terms the effort to be an "American" effort (drivers, technology, etc.), they are talking about USA citizens and technology.

This BS argument that comes up time and again usually does so to give a platform to lecture about how insular and myopic people from the USA supposedly are, usually devolving into arguments about the name of baseball's World Series, and the correct name of the major world sport of football (which our supposed jingoism leads us to call it soccer to differentiate it from our game we call football). Wow, I'm really digressing now.

My point is it's absurd to go on these rants about how insular people from the USA are on a board heavily populated by said people discussing a major world sport that is only minor in the USA!

Doesn't seem to matter what this 'entrant' does; they don't seem to be able to come up with a creditable, F1 qualified, driver. There're a few spares out there!
Repco von Brabham
QUOTE (Captain Tightpants @ Nov 25 2009, 02:38) *
The Sun is a tabloid, Repco. They're about as reliabe as paper shoes in bad weather.



Update News!!

Press Tele-Conference of Peter Windsor (in English) with the Argentinians journalists:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfKPWkakqW8

Cool..,


clap.gif clap.gif
potmotr
Lopez won again at the weekend, driving alongside Anthony Reid.

http://www.tc2000.com.ar/
Rob
QUOTE (potmotr @ Nov 30 2009, 14:11) *
Lopez won again at the weekend, driving alongside Anthony Reid.

http://www.tc2000.com.ar/


I didn't know Anthony Reid was racing in TC2000. Nice to see he's still got it smile.gif
potmotr
QUOTE (Rob @ Nov 30 2009, 15:33) *
I didn't know Anthony Reid was racing in TC2000. Nice to see he's still got it smile.gif


I'm here at the moment and saw it in the local paper.

Can't apeak Spanish, which is a shame, but it looked like an endurance race.

Marco Werner was also in it I think.
Repco von Brabham
QUOTE (Rob @ Nov 30 2009, 14:33) *
I didn't know Anthony Reid was racing in TC2000. Nice to see he's still got it smile.gif


Click here fella:
http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=110349


clap.gif clap.gif


ezequiel
QUOTE (potmotr @ Nov 30 2009, 15:11) *
Lopez won again at the weekend, driving alongside Anthony Reid.

http://www.tc2000.com.ar/



He took pole and won the title but the race was won by Ponce de Le贸n/Serra (Ford)
ezequiel
QUOTE (potmotr @ Nov 30 2009, 21:45) *
I'm here at the moment and saw it in the local paper.

Can't apeak Spanish, which is a shame, but it looked like an endurance race.

Marco Werner was also in it I think.



It wasn't Marco, it was Mariano. smile.gif
Repco von Brabham
Hey fellas, see this video, Just See:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQP4qfRmCiE

For Nelsinho, with all my love... cool.gif
ezequiel
http://www.corsaonline.com.ar/2009/12/12/N...f1-de-lopez.php

Top Race v6 has confirmed they will sponsored L贸pez into F1 and will have him ina few special races next season. And he just won the thitle there last weekend! Some teams and drivers have accepted a reduction in their financial helps/wages in order to have money to support him into F1. This is totally unusual. Now L贸pez will go for the unique triple crown in TC's last race next weekend after winning TC2000 and TRV6.
Repco von Brabham
At last appearing the Sponsors list of Pechito L贸pez.,

Is confirm the signs with "Corsa" magazine (just like I said before), Visa Credit Card, Top Race Touring Series, LoJack Satelital tracking, TBA, Tafirol, and.....the Mexican Cellphone Company "Claro", and two Argentinian tractor's factory and harvesters machines, Agrometal and Pauny

http://www.pauny.com.ar/espanol1/home.htm

Tafirol (medicines company) signs in the last minute.

TBA mind "Trains of Buenos Aires"

http://mundod.lavoz.com.ar/?q=content/schi...costoso-reloj-0


Regards


clap.gif clap.gif
potmotr
QUOTE (ezequiel @ Dec 2 2009, 17:01) *
It wasn't Marco, it was Mariano. smile.gif


Oh, sorry!

I was trying to read the paper in Spanish!
Menace
QUOTE (Repco von Brabham @ Dec 26 2009, 13:54) *
At last appearing the Sponsors list of Pechito L贸pez.,

Is confirm the signs with "Corsa" magazine (just like I said before), Visa Credit Card, Top Race Touring Series, LoJack Satelital tracking, TBA, Tafirol, and.....the Mexican Cellphone Company "Claro", and two Argentinian tractor's factory and harvesters machines, Agrometal and Pauny

http://www.pauny.com.ar/espanol1/home.htm

Tafirol (medicines company) signs in the last minute.

TBA mind "Trains of Buenos Aires"

http://mundod.lavoz.com.ar/?q=content/schi...costoso-reloj-0


Regards


clap.gif clap.gif


up.gif
rmac923
QUOTE (Repco von Brabham @ Dec 26 2009, 16:54) *
At last appearing the Sponsors list of Pechito L贸pez.,

Is confirm the signs with "Corsa" magazine (just like I said before), Visa Credit Card, Top Race Touring Series, LoJack Satelital tracking, TBA, Tafirol, and.....the Mexican Cellphone Company "Claro", and two Argentinian tractor's factory and harvesters machines, Agrometal and Pauny

http://www.pauny.com.ar/espanol1/home.htm

Tafirol (medicines company) signs in the last minute.

TBA mind "Trains of Buenos Aires"

http://mundod.lavoz.com.ar/?q=content/schi...costoso-reloj-0


Regards


clap.gif clap.gif


If I had to guess, Visa is going to be USF1's Title Sponsor. Of course we all know what happened last time a Credit Card company was a team's title sponsor... roflmao.gif
Captain Tightpants
QUOTE (rmac923 @ Dec 27 2009, 11:13) *
If I had to guess, Visa is going to be USF1's Title Sponsor. Of course we all know what happened last time a Credit Card company was a team's title sponsor... roflmao.gif

Yeah, but how can they make USF1 get onto the grid before Bahrain?
cjpani
QUOTE (Repco von Brabham @ Dec 26 2009, 15:54) *
At last appearing the Sponsors list of Pechito L贸pez.,

, and.....the Mexican Cellphone Company "Claro",


I have no idea what you are talking about; there is no such thing as a mexican cellphone company named Claro.
where did you get this info? confused.gif

cj
highdownforce
QUOTE (cjpani @ Dec 27 2009, 15:54) *
I have no idea what you are talking about; there is no such thing as a mexican cellphone company named Claro.
where did you get this info? confused.gif

cj

Claro is a brand that is part of the Am茅rica M贸vil Group.
It operates mainly in South America.
BMW_F1
QUOTE (cjpani @ Dec 27 2009, 22:54) *
I have no idea what you are talking about; there is no such thing as a mexican cellphone company named Claro.
where did you get this info? confused.gif

cj


largest mobile network in america.
RodrigoL
QUOTE (BMW_F1 @ Dec 27 2009, 18:17) *
largest mobile network in america.


Isn't that Verizon?

PS: a bit late to ask this, but....who the f**k is Pechito Lopez confused.gif drunk.gif
BMW_F1
QUOTE (RodrigoL @ Dec 27 2009, 23:30) *
Isn't that Verizon?

PS: a bit late to ask this, but....who the f**k is Pechito Lopez confused.gif drunk.gif


Verizon has close to 90 millions subscribers.. These guys have over 100 million..
bladesblood
Does Lopez come with any talent or just sponsors ?
BMW_F1
who cares.. Kova was supposedly talented and he sucked in F1.. Kobayashi was a nobody and he immediately impressed in F1. All these guys really need is a chance.
cjpani
QUOTE (BMW_F1 @ Dec 27 2009, 12:17) *
largest mobile network in america.



ahh thanks
so that would be Mr. Slim's company. (telmex/America Movil)
Its Telcel rebranded for south america.

cj
cjpani
QUOTE (highdownforce @ Dec 27 2009, 12:00) *
Claro is a brand that is part of the Am茅rica M贸vil Group.
It operates mainly in South America.


thanks up.gif
BMW_F1
QUOTE (cjpani @ Dec 27 2009, 23:54) *
ahh thanks
so that would be Mr. Slim's company. (telmex/America Movil)
Its Telcel rebranded for south america.

cj

that's correct.
ApexTomi
QUOTE (Repco von Brabham @ Nov 25 2009, 22:23) *
Update News!!

Press Tele-Conference of Peter Windsor (in English) with the Argentinians journalists:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfKPWkakqW8

Cool..,


clap.gif clap.gif



in that interview Mr. Windsor says that he's going to meet a driver in London who he would very much like to sign up for next year to team up with Lopez. Who that could be?
rmac923
QUOTE (ApexTomi @ Dec 27 2009, 14:05) *
in that interview Mr. Windsor says that he's going to meet a driver in London who he would very much like to sign up for next year to team up with Lopez. Who that could be?


Probably someone who wants a ride, but doesn't care with who.

Since Villenueve has already been rejected by USF1, the only other person I could think of is Anthony (I deserve a ride!!!) Davidson.

I think they'd be better off with Wurz, who actually wants to help build the team instead of driving (just to have a ride).
ezequiel
QUOTE (rmac923 @ Dec 27 2009, 01:13) *
If I had to guess, Visa is going to be USF1's Title Sponsor. Of course we all know what happened last time a Credit Card company was a team's title sponsor... roflmao.gif


Visa already sponsored Tuero in 1998. For some strange reason they have a long story sponsoring Argentine national teams and athletes (the basketball team, the female hockey team, volleyball, rugby...) And mastercard sponsored Jordan the same year, one year after Lola's fiasco.
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