Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Will USF1 make it to the 2010 grid? (merged)
The AUTOSPORT Bulletin Board > Forums > Racing Comments
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138
potmotr
QUOTE (Menace @ Dec 26 2009, 22:04) *
Based on everything we can see right now, they will be on the grid when the season starts.


What, a half built car?

No firm drivers?

No cash, other than the prospect of the portfolio Lopez will bring with him, if they can agree on a price?

QUOTE (Menace @ Dec 26 2009, 22:04) *
USF1 is for real now. The speculation about them making the grid seems a little silly now... as much as I do hate that whinger.


Can't agree. But I guess we'll know in 11 weeks. smile.gif
Lazarus II
QUOTE (MegaManson @ Dec 26 2009, 15:08) *
Its nothing to do with hating America, I like America and many American people but do not trust Windsor, this going pear shaped will damage the reputation of America in motorsport for a generation

roflmao.gif roflmao.gif America's "motorsport reputation" roflmao.gif roflmao.gif

***NEWSFLASH***
The sun doesn't rise and fall with other countries opinion of us (nor should it for you and your country cool.gif ), especially the all important "motorsport reputation". eek.gif

The average American could give a crap about F1. It's a little niche in a niche-sport.

Do you really think the average American gives a shit about F1 or even knows anything about it (other than - 'Ferrari', which is truely all that the average American knows about F1 and they don't really know anything about Ferrari other than it's an Italian sportscar). I'll answer that for you - NO, they don't.

All I see is a bunch of whinning saying what they "think" should be happening. Windsor said this team would be different and it is. Judgement day will arrive March 12th, 2010. Until then it's all armchair experts opinions - except for the Oompa Loompa Hitler-loving Bernie who only speaks when there's money to be made. His sounding off about USF1 is all about money guaranteed. Somewhere someone has offered Bernie money to open a slot or maybe he's laid some money down w/bookies, or something. One thing is certain w/Bernie - it's all about money.

QUOTE (potmotr @ Dec 26 2009, 18:12) *
What, a half built car?
Why does their car need to be finished? Where are they going to test it?
No firm drivers?
Why announce it? they've no car for them to drive yet. Where's the benefit to the team?
No cash, other than the prospect of the portfolio Lopez will bring with him, if they can agree on a price?
How do you know their bank balance? how do you know when their sponsor contracts begin?
Can't agree. But I guess we'll know in 11 weeks. smile.gif

If you want it "your way" then start your own team. up.gif until then let them run their team their way.

undersquare
QUOTE (Lazarus II @ Dec 26 2009, 22:43) *
All I see is a bunch of whinning saying what they "think" should be happening. Windsor said this team would be different and it is. Judgement day will arrive March 12th, 2010. Until then it's all armchair experts opinions - except for the Oompa Loompa Hitler-loving Bernie who only speaks when there's money to be made. His sounding off about USF1 is all about money guaranteed. Somewhere someone has offered Bernie money to open a slot or maybe he's laid some money down w/bookies, or something. One thing is certain w/Bernie - it's all about money.


If you want it "your way" then start your own team. up.gif until then let them run their team their way.


I'll be quite disappointed if they don't make it, I like the idea and I like North Carolina as a place. But the video and website don't give any reason to build hopes up, they have very little new content, they've been put out to maintain the illusion. Look hard at them.

They show that USF1 made a start back in July but now virtually in 2010 that's still where they are. It looks like they haven't raised the money since then to go racing in March. They haven't given up, that's all this activity says.
Lazarus II
QUOTE (undersquare @ Dec 26 2009, 18:14) *
I'll be quite disappointed if they don't make it, I like the idea and I like North Carolina as a place. But the video and website don't give any reason to build hopes up, they have very little new content, they've been put out to maintain the illusion. Look hard at them.

They show that USF1 made a start back in July but now virtually in 2010 that's still where they are. It looks like they haven't raised the money since then to go racing in March. They haven't given up, that's all this activity says.

According to Windsor and Anderson they already had the money in place for next season at the initial announcement of US F1.

Just because they are not showing daily/weekly/monthly progress (no one else does either) reports doesn't mean anything. What's important is being on the grid March 12, 2010. That surely is their focus right now - rather an obvious statement lol.gif . According to Varsha's statement they're all working 80+hr/wk to get this up and running. No one ever said this was going to be the biggest team. And they did say they were going to run very lean compared to other teams.

The basic premise of what I'm getting at is judge them March 12, 2010 on if they get a car to the grid and judge them ~August 2010 on their 2010 car (if it exists). The one thing everyone seems to forget is that they not only didn't buy an existing team, they started a new team in a new area. It's going to take some time. The world of instant gratification this ain't. Start-ups are hard work.
Captain Tightpants
QUOTE (Lazarus II @ Dec 27 2009, 12:51) *
Just because they are not showing daily/weekly/monthly progress (no one else does either) reports doesn't mean anything. What's important is being on the grid March 12, 2010. That surely is their focus right now - rather an obvious statement

The problem is that people are expecting ten times as much from USF1 are they are from the other three combined just to satisfy their demands that USF1 show something of themselves. People have been riding and badgering them right from the moment they were announced as a new team; I expect that the talk of them being some elaborate stunt started about half an hour after they were accepted to the grid. The reasoning behind these targeted attacks seems to stem from a blend of anti-American sentiment to a dislike of Peter Windsor. Take MegaManson's comments about how the website looks amateur-ish and the way he holds it up as proof that USF1 will not make the grid, simply because it doesn't have all the artistry and Flash applets that the likes of Virgin does. Never mind the fact that it has more actual content. In fact, I'd be more worried about the team if they launched the website and it had all the bells and whistles and was hailed as a modern work of art. USF1 clearly have more important things on their mind, like building their actual cars and team. If they dedicated enough time to deflect and diffuse all of the criticism and negativity that has stuck to them like tar since day one, they wouldn't have enough time to do anything else. People make stupid statements like "it's all a publicity stunt", ignoring the fact that publicity stunts are designed to promote things and in its current form, USF1 doesn't actually pomote anything.

In fact, I wholly expect people to get on the internet after Abu Dhabi 2010 and continue these stupid and frankly undeserved attacks on the team, claiming that everything was done by actors, that they somehow inserted images of the cars into the telecast to cover up the fact that they weren't there, the way they interfered with the timing to make it appear that the cars were on the track, and how Peter Windsor paid off Martin Brundle to mention USF1 on occasion.
Lazarus II
There's no question that many will criticize them for not winning (or at minimum a podium) in Bahrain.
Captain Tightpants
The funny part is, they haven't said they would. Certainly not the way BAR did.
Lazarus II
It doesn't matter though. The haters will consider them a failure to not at least have one podium (a win is more 'expected') in their first year.

BTW - it was only Reynard who stupidly said they'd win their first race. The rest of the team was painted with his idiotic statements.

All of this "where's the car", "who's the drivers" bullshit has been going on since day 1 of USF1. Who says the driver has to be announced before the first test? "because that's the way it's always done" - well Windsor said they were going to do things differently now didn't he; and he is so...

IMO
- if they get a car to the grid - good job, well done guys.
- if they regularly get both cars to the finish - great job, truely a great performance.
- if they score a point - fantastic job, congrats all around. Fantastic!
- if they get a podium - phenominal job utterly phenominal job. Speachless.

I would really only expect them to get the cars to the grid with the possibility of getting the cars to the finish sometime late season. Not sure about both cars as that is a bit driver dependent (accidents or just the normal driver stupidity).


**New USF1 article here

QUOTE
since August, we have been building our “house”. Literally. We gutted the ex-Hall of Fame Racing/Joe Gibbs NASCAR shop, re-painted it, re-floored it, re-wired it, re-lit it and re-designed it. In three weeks.

They've been very busy.
MegaManson
QUOTE (Captain Tightpants @ Dec 27 2009, 02:17) *
The problem is that people are expecting ten times as much from USF1 are they are from the other three combined just to satisfy their demands that USF1 show something of themselves. People have been riding and badgering them right from the moment they were announced as a new team; I expect that the talk of them being some elaborate stunt started about half an hour after they were accepted to the grid. The reasoning behind these targeted attacks seems to stem from a blend of anti-American sentiment to a dislike of Peter Windsor. Take MegaManson's comments about how the website looks amateur-ish and the way he holds it up as proof that USF1 will not make the grid, simply because it doesn't have all the artistry and Flash applets that the likes of Virgin does. Never mind the fact that it has more actual content. In fact, I'd be more worried about the team if they launched the website and it had all the bells and whistles and was hailed as a modern work of art. USF1 clearly have more important things on their mind, like building their actual cars and team. If they dedicated enough time to deflect and diffuse all of the criticism and negativity that has stuck to them like tar since day one, they wouldn't have enough time to do anything else. People make stupid statements like "it's all a publicity stunt", ignoring the fact that publicity stunts are designed to promote things and in its current form, USF1 doesn't actually pomote anything.

In fact, I wholly expect people to get on the internet after Abu Dhabi 2010 and continue these stupid and frankly undeserved attacks on the team, claiming that everything was done by actors, that they somehow inserted images of the cars into the telecast to cover up the fact that they weren't there, the way they interfered with the timing to make it appear that the cars were on the track, and how Peter Windsor paid off Martin Brundle to mention USF1 on occasion.


I never said that they would not make the grid and that site is not a factor, I think they will make the grid but that overall they are totally out of their depth, I see them as the next Mastercard Lola / Andrea Moda (at least Lola had a sponsor which is more than USF1 has ;) ) I think that Windsor/Anderson are sincere in their efforts and genuinely want to succeed but are utterly out of their depth

IMHO will USF1 make the grid in Bahrain ? Yes
Will they last the season ? No
Captain Tightpants
QUOTE (MegaManson @ Dec 27 2009, 21:13) *
I think that Windsor/Anderson are sincere in their efforts and genuinely want to succeed but are utterly out of their depth

IMHO will USF1 make the grid in Bahrain ? Yes
Will they last the season ? No

Based on what? They know how to build cars and they know how to run a team. They've got a lot of money at their disposal and have been planning this since early last year or before, and they wholly intended to apply for 2010 even if the grid was not opened up the way it was. Arguably, there is a lot in their favour. But since they haven't been meeting your stringent demands for information, they're doomed to failure? How does that work?
Demo.
QUOTE (Captain Tightpants @ Dec 27 2009, 02:17) *
The problem is that people are expecting ten times as much from USF1 are they are from the other three combined just to satisfy their demands that USF1 show something of themselves. People have been riding and badgering them right from the moment they were announced as a new team; I expect that the talk of them being some elaborate stunt started about half an hour after they were accepted to the grid. The reasoning behind these targeted attacks seems to stem from a blend of anti-American sentiment to a dislike of Peter Windsor. Take MegaManson's comments about how the website looks amateur-ish and the way he holds it up as proof that USF1 will not make the grid, simply because it doesn't have all the artistry and Flash applets that the likes of Virgin does. Never mind the fact that it has more actual content. In fact, I'd be more worried about the team if they launched the website and it had all the bells and whistles and was hailed as a modern work of art. USF1 clearly have more important things on their mind, like building their actual cars and team. If they dedicated enough time to deflect and diffuse all of the criticism and negativity that has stuck to them like tar since day one, they wouldn't have enough time to do anything else. People make stupid statements like "it's all a publicity stunt", ignoring the fact that publicity stunts are designed to promote things and in its current form, USF1 doesn't actually pomote anything.

In fact, I wholly expect people to get on the internet after Abu Dhabi 2010 and continue these stupid and frankly undeserved attacks on the team, claiming that everything was done by actors, that they somehow inserted images of the cars into the telecast to cover up the fact that they weren't there, the way they interfered with the timing to make it appear that the cars were on the track, and how Peter Windsor paid off Martin Brundle to mention USF1 on occasion.



CP but surely you also have to admit some of the reasons people are wondering 'if' so much about USF1 is down to what USF1 have said themselves.
They unlike all the other new teams were the ones who said they would be open they would have web tv etc.
In the end its what USF1 have said themselves but failed to deliver yet that has caused so many to ask such questions of USF1.
MegaManson
QUOTE (Captain Tightpants @ Dec 27 2009, 10:24) *
Based on what? They know how to build cars and they know how to run a team. They've got a lot of money at their disposal and have been planning this since early last year or before, and they wholly intended to apply for 2010 even if the grid was not opened up the way it was. Arguably, there is a lot in their favour. But since they haven't been meeting your stringent demands for information, they're doomed to failure? How does that work?


Where is the money though ?

Hurley pledged to invest $20m, their freight/transportation costs will probably cost near that - Windsor and Anderson while by our standards wealthy men don't have the money alone to fund a years racing

There is not a single sponsor listed on their website, a website opened to a great online fanfare you would have thought sponsors would want all the exposure going

Pechito Lopez is by last reports $2m short of having enough money for the USF1 drive which shows that every penny counts in terms of USF1

I don't think it is a fraud or a scam I just don't think they have the money to go racing to the end of the season

wj_gibson
QUOTE (Captain Tightpants @ Dec 27 2009, 02:17) *
The problem is that people are expecting ten times as much from USF1 are they are from the other three combined just to satisfy their demands that USF1 show something of themselves. People have been riding and badgering them right from the moment they were announced as a new team; I expect that the talk of them being some elaborate stunt started about half an hour after they were accepted to the grid.


No they haven't. People have been sceptical about the ability of a few entrepreneurs to set up from scratch and rely on outsourcing everything from suppliers that have never had any real involvement with single-seater racing outside of the US. It's a model that has never worked for any team in the past. Teams such as Fondmetal, EuroBrun and Scuderia Italia used to do things like this. The other new teams are largely built upon an existing infrastructure, even if for lower formulae in the case of Manor.

QUOTE
The reasoning behind these targeted attacks seems to stem from a blend of anti-American sentiment to a dislike of Peter Windsor. Take MegaManson's comments about how the website looks amateur-ish and the way he holds it up as proof that USF1 will not make the grid, simply because it doesn't have all the artistry and Flash applets that the likes of Virgin does. Never mind the fact that it has more actual content. In fact, I'd be more worried about the team if they launched the website and it had all the bells and whistles and was hailed as a modern work of art. USF1 clearly have more important things on their mind, like building their actual cars and team. If they dedicated enough time to deflect and diffuse all of the criticism and negativity that has stuck to them like tar since day one, they wouldn't have enough time to do anything else. People make stupid statements like "it's all a publicity stunt", ignoring the fact that publicity stunts are designed to promote things and in its current form, USF1 doesn't actually pomote anything.


I'm getting tired of the lazy assertion that those sceptical of USF1's pedigree are "anti-American". Where is the anti-Americanism in the MegaManson comment you refer to? I can't find any at all. I think this idea that anti-Americanism mobilises sceptics is a disgraceful and slanderous effort to slur what are perfectly reasonable doubts about this team.

QUOTE
In fact, I wholly expect people to get on the internet after Abu Dhabi 2010 and continue these stupid and frankly undeserved attacks on the team, claiming that everything was done by actors, that they somehow inserted images of the cars into the telecast to cover up the fact that they weren't there, the way they interfered with the timing to make it appear that the cars were on the track, and how Peter Windsor paid off Martin Brundle to mention USF1 on occasion.


Hysterical (in the true psychoanalytical definition of the term, rather than "ho ho, that's funny").

I would suggest you engage with the likes of MegaManson instead of simply resorting to the predictable response of "oh, why aren't you saying the same about Virgin/Lotus/Campos?" People have been saying these things about every single one of the new teams since the summer. I for one thought it was laughable that Campos, Manor and USF1 won franchises at the expense of proven motorsport operators such as Lola and Prodrive. Some of these new teams have since demonstrated capacity, sponsorship, drivers et al. Campos haven't done that and there are lots of people doubting their ability to make it to Bahrain. But Campos never promised anything particularly flash, and I tend to think that their low-key approach has been the sensible one, keeping well out of the way whilst they try to put a package together that can at least get them through the first few races. They may not even achieve that.

Likewise, I have major doubts that Sauber will appear at Bahrain, given that Petronas has gone with Mercedes. But, again, the teamseems to be getting on with quietly working away at putting itself together to at least try for 2010.

Peter Windsor's approach, on the other hand, appears to have been one of flooding particular chosen media outlets (notably Speed) with all kinds of silly promises about his team at a very early stage. OK, it worked insofar as his team won an entry for 2010 simply through being the highest-profile aspirant at that point, but what else is there of substance here? All I see is a cynical use of "US" as part of a foolish belief that the term "US" will attract major American corporates into the sport to back his effort. Unfortunately for Windsor, marketing professionals are rather more canny than that these days. His whole commercial approach (to my mind - bear in mind that I work in marketing, though) is about 20 years out of date. Take the Steve Matchett tour of the "facility," for example. It was largely panned on forums such as this - and marketeers pay serious attention to those sorts of perceptions these days.
undersquare
QUOTE (Lazarus II @ Dec 27 2009, 01:51) *
According to Windsor and Anderson they already had the money in place for next season at the initial announcement of US F1.

Just because they are not showing daily/weekly/monthly progress (no one else does either) reports doesn't mean anything. What's important is being on the grid March 12, 2010. That surely is their focus right now - rather an obvious statement lol.gif . According to Varsha's statement they're all working 80+hr/wk to get this up and running. No one ever said this was going to be the biggest team. And they did say they were going to run very lean compared to other teams.

The basic premise of what I'm getting at is judge them March 12, 2010 on if they get a car to the grid and judge them ~August 2010 on their 2010 car (if it exists). The one thing everyone seems to forget is that they not only didn't buy an existing team, they started a new team in a new area. It's going to take some time. The world of instant gratification this ain't. Start-ups are hard work.


Well my mind is open, if they make it then that's great. Team in the USA - great. New way of doing F1 - great. I don't know Windsor or Anderson to like or dislike them. I'm just looking at the evidence to predict what's going to happen, while we're waiting. For me the website launch and video tells us nothing, except that the've published stuff from July that shows them in a very unready state with no car and no sponsor presence.

It all depends if we believe what Windor says. Subtract that from your stock of evidence and they're doomed for sure. If you believe him then it's all fine. The trouble is it's impossible to know whether to believe him or not because, even if he's an honest man, he's in a situation where he has to maintain confidence - if he once admitted any doubts that would finish them instantly.

Do we know anything specific about the money they say they have?
potmotr
QUOTE (undersquare @ Dec 27 2009, 10:49) *
Do we know anything specific about the money they say they have?


Aside from that vague link up with Chad Hurley and the connection with a well-financed Argentine pay driver, I don't think they have two pennies to rub together.


hunnylander
US F1, do your homework!
V8 Fireworks
QUOTE (wj_gibson @ Dec 27 2009, 10:48) *
People have been sceptical about the ability of a few entrepreneurs to set up from scratch and rely on outsourcing everything from suppliers that have never had any real involvement with single-seater racing outside of the US.

US suppliers of makes like Panoz, G-Force etc may NOT be F1 standard, but NEITHER are the final products of Dallara (and Lola or Prodrive) - yet they are considered more "credible". NONE of these outfits are front running formula 1 standard at present, it is a big step from churning out another formula car this time to F1 specs, and manufacturing an F1 car at the level of Ferrari/McLaren etc. smile.gif

People are forgetting STR needs to build their first "own" car too - so it is a 5-way battle! smile.gif
potmotr
QUOTE (V8 Fireworks @ Dec 27 2009, 11:51) *
People are forgetting STR needs to build their first "own" car too - so it is a 5-way battle! smile.gif


That's an interesting point actually, we've yet to see or hear what they're up to.
V8 Fireworks
QUOTE (potmotr @ Dec 27 2009, 11:39) *
Aside from that vague link up with Chad Hurley and the connection with a well-financed Argentine pay driver, I don't think they have two pennies to rub together.

They also get money from the FIA, it was at least $5m as I recall, 12.5% of a nominal budget or more?
Captain Tightpants
And they'll no doubt get their own sponsors.
potmotr
QUOTE (V8 Fireworks @ Dec 27 2009, 11:54) *
They also get money from the FIA, it was at least $5m as I recall, 12.5% of a nominal budget or more?


So the team must be totally hanging out for that payment...
Rob
QUOTE (hunnylander @ Dec 27 2009, 11:44) *


I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
MegaManson
QUOTE (Rob @ Dec 27 2009, 12:35) *
I don't know whether to laugh or cry.


LOL same

For a supposed serious professional racing outfit to make mistakes like that on their website further weakens their professionalism

listerine
I think it's pretty clear to everyone that things aren't going to plan for USF1. You'd have to be an idiot to promise an "early November roller" when you were planning to have the first tub out of the autoclave just before Xmas. And I don't think Anyone would accuse Ken Anderson of being an idiot.
Interestingly, the team is clearly embarrassed about that too, and have taken to re-writing history.
From the original interview here:
"Instead, we've taken out a lot of the guesswork and can get close to a race-ready piece right off of the machines, which is happening now. Our timing is according to plan, with an early November "roller" and a finished car in time for January 2010 testing."

And from USGPE.com
"Instead, we’ve taken out a lot of the guesswork and can get close to a race-ready piece right off of the machines, which is happening now. Our timing is according to plan, with a finished car in time for the 2010 season."

Also missing from the website, is the one partner I thought I knew about: Rich Silverstein of Goodby Silverstein. He was the first person they announced, before Chad.

Then there's Windsor's excuses; The late agreement on the rules, and problems with Cosworth. True or not, it's the same for other teams and I haven't heard anything from them.

Weather this means the won't make the grid I have no idea, but they are defiantly struggling.
barnardferrari
QUOTE (listerine @ Dec 27 2009, 06:53) *
Interestingly, the team is clearly embarrassed about that too, and have taken to re-writing history.

Good catch! It's 1984 in 2009/10.
undersquare
QUOTE (Captain Tightpants @ Dec 27 2009, 11:58) *
And they'll no doubt get their own sponsors.


No doubt at all? stoned.gif

They need something like $100m in sponsorship, call that 5 at $20m each, anyone knows that if they put in their $20m and the other 4 don't materialise then their $20m has gone straight down the pan with no return at all.

Windsor and Anderson have spent a year trying to raise the sponsorship, not done it, now everyone they approach can see a black hole beckoning.

If they had any sponsors, they'd be on the website and in the video. I'm not celebrating this at all, but anyone who's going to be disappointed may as well start now. Barring something very surprising, it just hasn't worked out.
Seanspeed
QUOTE (undersquare @ Dec 27 2009, 08:17) *
They need something like $100m in sponsorship

Says who? ohwell.gif

And I'm very amazed at your inside knowledge of USF1.
potmotr
QUOTE (undersquare @ Dec 27 2009, 13:17) *
If they had any sponsors, they'd be on the website and in the video.


I agree.

The website features every sponsor and supplier they have, right down to McLaren (who supplies the standard MCU) and an air conditioner company, no doubt for their factory.

Also interesting is that there is no mention at all of suppliers for the more expensive items, like team trucks.

This suggests to me that the team not only doesn't have a car, but is yet to obtain a way to move their cars around Europe, let alone a motorhome and all those other pieces of the puzzle.

As you say, if they had these elements in place Windsor and his business partners would surely let the world know, if only to let other sponsors know that the team is gathering momentum.

At the moment this doesn't appear to be the case.

But hey, it's not just USF1, Campos are also way behind as far as I can see.

Though Campos are already an existing race team so will have many of the facilities and equipment they need.
Seanspeed
QUOTE (potmotr @ Dec 27 2009, 09:05) *
Though Campos are already an existing race team so will have many of the facilities and equipment they need.

I seriously doubt that the equipment needed to design, build and operate an F1 car/team is anything like whats needed for a delivered spec GP2 car.
potmotr
QUOTE (Seanspeed @ Dec 27 2009, 14:08) *
I seriously doubt that the equipment needed to design, build and operate an F1 car/team is anything like whats needed for a delivered spec GP2 car.


Yeah, but they have all the race team facilities and a lot of the staff already.

They have the infrastructure of a race team. It doesn't appear that USF1 even has that does it?
Seanspeed
QUOTE (potmotr @ Dec 27 2009, 09:09) *
Yeah, but they have all the race team facilities and a lot of the staff already.

They have the infrastructure of a race team. It doesn't appear that USF1 even has that does it?

Well we haven't heard their exact number of 'race staff', so I'm guessing you're just going to assume there's none. That seems to be your approach so far.
potmotr
QUOTE (Seanspeed @ Dec 27 2009, 14:28) *
Well we haven't heard their exact number of 'race staff', so I'm guessing you're just going to assume there's none. That seems to be your approach so far.


No need to get personal.

ambivalent.gif

I'll leave you to discuss this issue with yourself.
pingu666
i think people forget its a pretty huge task to get ready for a first season in any championship
Seanspeed
QUOTE (potmotr @ Dec 27 2009, 09:32) *
No need to get personal.

ambivalent.gif

I'll leave you to discuss this issue with yourself.

Wow. You sure are sensitive if you consider that 'getting personal'.

Whatever dude.
listerine
QUOTE (pingu666 @ Dec 27 2009, 14:36) *
i think people forget its a pretty huge task to get ready for a first season in any championship


People like Peter Windsor?


undersquare
QUOTE (Seanspeed @ Dec 27 2009, 14:00) *
Says who? ohwell.gif

And I'm very amazed at your inside knowledge of USF1.


So tell us how much they need and how much of that they have, if you don't like my elementary example. Or tell us anything at all, maybe they can do it for $10m and it's 5 x $2m they haven't got . Or quibble with the "5x" if you prefer drunk.gif .
Dulok
QUOTE (potmotr @ Dec 27 2009, 09:05) *
Also interesting is that there is no mention at all of suppliers for the more expensive items, like team trucks.

This suggests to me that the team not only doesn't have a car, but is yet to obtain a way to move their cars around Europe, let alone a motorhome and all those other pieces of the puzzle.


Actually USF1 talked about their purchase and refurbishment of trucks from Brawn last month so they do at least have trucks in Europe. Brawn trucks

I'm cautiously optimistic about them making it to Bahrain and I'll wait and see if the sponsors and drivers are announced in January and take it from there.
potmotr
QUOTE (Dulok @ Dec 27 2009, 14:55) *
Actually USF1 talked about their purchase and refurbishment of trucks from Brawn last month so they do at least have trucks in Europe. Brawn trucks


Well that's one positive I guess.

Are they planning to be at the first test?
Seanspeed
QUOTE (undersquare @ Dec 27 2009, 09:47) *
So tell us how much they need and how much of that they have, if you don't like my elementary example. Or tell us anything at all, maybe they can do it for $10m and it's 5 x $2m they haven't got . Or quibble with the "5x" if you prefer drunk.gif .

For one, you, nor I, have any idea on how much money they have. I dont know why you're asking me, cuz thats just not the point I was making.

And you dont know the minimum amount of money its necessary to have to enter F1, either. The team has repeatedly said that they're not doing things like everybody else does. Its possible that not even some of the existing F1 teams know the answer to this question.
Sajuuk
Richard Branson say the virgin racing have £40 million budget.
listerine
We know they have $10m from Bernie, $20m form Chad Hurley, and $10m(?) from Jose. So that's at least $40m funding for the year. Plus transport costs in kind to the tune of 10tons of freight and a number of (economy) tickets for staff to each race. (I think from a central location in Europe.)
There is also the chance that the is a Title sponsor lined up that can't be announced yet for contractual reasons.

However, if they are still looking for sponsorship. They have to counter the well publicised doubts of Ecclestone, and sell an American team making it's debut in the Middle East.
undersquare
QUOTE (Seanspeed @ Dec 27 2009, 19:54) *
For one, you, nor I, have any idea on how much money they have. I dont know why you're asking me, cuz thats just not the point I was making.

And you dont know the minimum amount of money its necessary to have to enter F1, either. The team has repeatedly said that they're not doing things like everybody else does. Its possible that not even some of the existing F1 teams know the answer to this question.


Alright well I can't see why they would have sponsors, for whatever the amount is, and yet not be giving them any exposure, but there could be a reason I suppose. Anyway like you I hope they have enough and make it onto the grid. All I'm saying is I'm giving my hopes a glide path, to avoid a plummet later.
hansmann
The business culture in the US is different from the one in Europe and Asia.
Making noise can make people a fortune in the US, without leaving a stain on their reputation when they don't deliver.

Even if USF1 makes it to the grid, I'd be surprised if they had the staying power and commitment of, say, Force India.
Different work ethics .
listerine
QUOTE (hansmann @ Dec 27 2009, 21:33) *
The business culture in the US is different from the one in Europe and Asia.
Making noise can make people a fortune in the US, without leaving a stain on their reputation when they don't deliver.

Even if USF1 makes it to the grid, I'd be surprised if they had the staying power and commitment of, say, Force India.
Different work ethics .


I can sort of see what you mean. Here are some notes on Ken Anderson's CV from the site.

"1990: Technical Director, Onyx Grand Prix Engineering (F1); formed Quantum Suspension Technology & Quantum D.A.T.A."
From F1 Rejects On their 1990 season.
The preparation of the cars was becoming questionable, with spare parts in such short supply that, as scandalous rumour had it, Monteverdi's classic car collection was being scavenged for bits and pieces!
Broken wishbones were welded back together instead of being replaced, and when Lehto complained of a recurrent handling problem, it was traced to a differential that had been installed the wrong way around several races earlier. Little wonder that respected journalist Nigel Roebuck began calling the team 'Team Cuckoo Clock'. At this point, Karl Foitek withdrew his money from the farce, refusing to let his son drive what had become a death-trap.

"1991 – 1992: Formed Chip Ganassi Racing Ltd. in England, which went on to become G Force Precision Engineering Ltd. (builders of the G Force IRL car and Thrust SSC World Land Speed Record Holder)"
Work on Thrust SSC began in 1993.

"2003 - 2007: Technical Director for design and construction of Windshear Wind Tunnel. Technical Director Haas CNC Racing (NASCAR Sprint Cup and Nationwide Series)"
This was issued on 25Feb.

"Clarification of Ken Anderson’s envolvement with the Windshear Inc. windtunnel. Ken Anderson was the technical advisor for Windshear Inc. until about a year ago when he left to pursue his current venture.

Haas Automation Inc. is the sole owner of Windshear Inc., Jacobs Engineering is the designer and builder of Windshear Inc. and Triliad Development Inc. is the Project Manager for Windshear Inc.

We wish Ken much success with in his current project and look forward to USF1 becoming a valued customer of Windshear Inc.

Valerie Draeger
President
Triliad Development, Inc."
glorius&victorius
looking at the video on their website... they all seem so exited when a new part rolls out of the machines... looks so amateurish....

in fact with the mechanics walking around in t.shirts etc... it looks like an episode of American Chopper...

Good luck to them!

Rob
QUOTE (glorius&victorius @ Dec 27 2009, 22:37) *
in fact with the mechanics walking around in t.shirts etc... it looks like an episode of American Chopper...


"This McDonalds themed car was a great project for us. You can see we incorporated the golden arches where the rear wing should normally go. The wheels have got these little hamburger spinners. We put a nice Indian motor in there. Come on Mikey, fire it up!"
potmotr
QUOTE (glorius&victorius @ Dec 27 2009, 22:37) *
in fact with the mechanics walking around in t.shirts etc... it looks like an episode of American Chopper...


I thought the same actually.

And half the guys walking around looked like the guys turning up to delver the machinery.

But hey, what would I know.

I'll be more than happy if this team makes it onto the grid, but I think we need to see more signs of life in the first weeks of 2010 don't we?
Lazarus II
QUOTE (glorius&victorius @ Dec 27 2009, 18:37) *
looking at the video on their website... they all seem so exited when a new part rolls out of the machines... looks so amateurish....

in fact with the mechanics walking around in t.shirts etc... it looks like an episode of American Chopper...

Good luck to them!

So the t-shirts will make the car slow? or does it make them less competent? what does your statement say about you?
pingu666
QUOTE (listerine @ Dec 27 2009, 14:43) *
People like Peter Windsor?


anyone probably. all the other series i can think of, you start of with a partial schedule, or one big event (like indy 500, dakar etc)

i think the first key date to meet is to atleast get some testing in, whenever that is due
craftverk
the USF1 car is also made without the use of a wind tunnel?
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2012 Invision Power Services, Inc.