I think the USF1 guys felt pressured to show something after Bernie was so open with his criticism and so here arrives the minimal website and videos. They and Campos look to be in a relatively tough spot money-wise and, IMO, that's the main reason they're both dragging a bit compared to fellow newcomers Lotus and Virgin. Well, that and USF1 has Peter Windsor and a YouTube man rather than Branson's Virgin empire media/pr machine behind them...

I still expect USF1 (and Campos, for that matter) to be there, probably with pay drivers in tow and perhaps not the fastest cars on the grid, but USF1 in particular really did themselves no favours by talking too much before they were ready to deliver. There's dignity in being quiet until you arrive, Peter. Might be worth a shot next time, huh? Lesson learned?


I'll admit I'm watching this team closely since they will be the only ones from my part of the world. We're a little self-contained when it comes to sports over here in North America, often just playing amongst ourselves (Canada and the US), so I'm interested to see a foray into F1 instead of NASCAR, Indycar or another locally-based series. I want it to work, which could perhaps encourage more involvement from NA sponsors to help aspiring racers from over here compete in Europe, if that's their dream, and I think that desire for success makes me more wary of potential failure than I would be for say, Campos, who I'm sure are lovely folks but who I have no real emotional investment in. A US-based team could be good for the sport here but because F1 isn't so high profile in these parts, this team needs to be marketed carefully. I'm not (yet) convinced Windsor and Anderson are the people to make it work. Here's hoping they pull it off.

Huh, seems like Anderson and Windsor watched too much Discovery.
Ya know? The insane deadlines in American Chopper, American Hotrod etc.



IMHO, this is how the story goes:

- Windsor and Anderson talked for some years now that they had the idea to maybe run an ALL-US team.
- somebody leaked the story to the media in spring and instead of denying it they both jumped and in over-excitement confirmed that they will be on the grid for 2010 without having ANY resources at all
- Windsor exaggerated and trumpeted out all this "new approach" stuff, Anderson was full of "his" (which we now know is far from the truth) windtunnel
- FIA-FOTA war, blabla, they came handy to Max and Bernie.
- after that nothing much happened, everything is quiet, AMuS very critically about them and here we are.
- a website and a video

This is kind of important for you to figure out - that's the same thing. I don't think I need to c&p the definition of Prejudice do I?

Here's an example:
- everyone from england is pompous, has bad teeth, and they cannot cook so they boil everything. Can you see how that prejudice and painting everyone with the same brush?


Sorry to pick on you, but some of your logic is ......well auh...I'll be nice and say 'lacking'.
Tell me exactly what you can get facilities wise for $20m. Did they buy or lease? I'll give you a hint as Windsor said something about eventually moving into a new purpose-built facility that would include all of the promised fan interactive 'stuff'. What are the real estate prices like in Charlotte? do you know what you get for a sq/ft?

Are you starting to see how ridiculous this "they obviously burned through the $20m" statement is yet? It's baseless drivle.

Yes, they *talked* about it back then. Doesn't mean they were seriously planning at the time. It was just an idea(and an even older one at that). They said that without major reductions in expenditures would they actually be able to join and in 2006, there was not really any huge sign that this was going to happen anytime soon. It wasn't until late 2008/early 2009 where the work of FOTA and the agreement to universally reduce costs did they actually start realizing USF1 as a real possibility.

This is a seriously, seriously unreasonable criticism of the team.

None of us know if they have anybody signed or not. It should be pretty common knowledge these days that teams sometimes keep driver signings secret for a little while.

People are paying too much attention to this team.. If they make it fine, if they don't so what.. ?what's the big deal.. ?
I personally don't have to go scrutinizing t-shits, facilities or websites in order to convince myself that a team is serious or not.. I have not even cared to look at Campos/Virgin/Lotus with detail because if they say that they'll be there I take their word without knowing having any clue about their background.
If one of them fail to make it, it must be because of X reason which I am sure will be valid.. Other teams in the past have failed with their attempts.. - it is normal.. we all know that it is a big challenge to get in..

I don't understand why some of you can do the same with the USf1 team.. your arrogance against anything that is American is evident and unjustifiable.

It's a motorsport forum discussing a new team.

Does it matter to me if they make it in the real world? Not at all.

Does it matter when discussing F1? Of course it does.



Lotus and Virgin both clearly have money behind them.

Lotus in the form of Tony Fernandes and Air Asia, Virgin in the form of Richard Branson.

They've announced drivers.

These factors make make them credible.



Hang on, where is the anti-American sentiment?

I think USF1's use of an American base is unorthodox and might might work because all other F1 teams are based in Europe, and I reckon this has to be for a sound reason.

But I don't think anyone has questioned the competence of the America motor racing industry.

Personally, I lived in Kentucky for a while and have a good few American friends.

I love the place.

They have a base in Spain. You are so into this topic but ignorant with respect to details..

Gee, thanks, so cordial of you.

I know they have a base in Spain, but they are based in the States.

if they are based in the states then what is the point of having a base in Spain?..

They have a race-base in Space but their manufacturing base is in the States, right?

of course.. actually having the manufacturer base in the US is better/cheaper for them since more of the raw materials are from the the US... If they built the car in Spain they will be spending a ton of money just shipping the stuff over the Atlantic ..

So what happens during the development race during the season?

For instance, Red Bull produced more than 30 variations of their front wing alone this year.

Each of those parts has to be flown to whereever the team is racing, right?

So rather than just load the new bits onto the truck as it leaves for the race weekend, they have to be flown from the U.S. to join the race team.

That's a lot of trans-Atlantic freighting, and also would make the team less responsive in the development race thanks to the time involved.

Right?

I thought the questioning here is mostly on whether or not they will make it for Bahrein and not if they will be competitive like RedBull.. I think it is obvious that they will be backmarkers next year. No one in their right minds will be expecting them to win or even get a podium.. That IMO would be too much to ask for their first year.. I think that their development throughout the year will be limited - that is more inline with the rich teams who are competing for the title but not so with the poorly funded ones.. That's always been the norm..

They will be a small team and should be judged accordingly and not compared with Redbull/Mercedes/Mclaren/Ferrari.. etc..

It's not unreasonable, they were the first of the new teams to be recognised so they should have done as much progress as Virgin or Lotus, if not more, because they have had more time than the other new teams.

The only driver that has been rumoured to join them is Jose Maria Lopez, a little known driver from South America, and I haven't heard anything about sponsors at all. Also, Windsor was still doing the press conferences at the end of the season and writing articles for F1 racing magazine instead of focusing on getting the team ready. How can I take them seriously if they appear to have done hardly anything in the last few months?

I'm not the only one who's not taking them seriously, Bernie said that he doesn't think they will make it too.

Sure, but there will still be plenty of parts winging their way to Europe from the manufacturing base in Charlotte, right?

The freight costs will soon start to outweigh the economic benefits of being in the US, IMO.

Try not to be so paranoid, don't you want people to be interested in USF1?

What "raw materials", are you suggesting that most of USF1's car is coming from the US of A so having their base there is financially benefitting them?

all.

you don't have the details.. current teams today already spend a ton of money shipping stuff around. F1 is no longer predominantly European based, Bernie is moving away from that as you may already be aware.. (10 races out of 19 are outside of Europe next year) .With a base in Spain they will have the 9 European races covered as .. for the other 10, they will have to ship just like every other team..

Are you saying that the rest of the grid have to source all their materials from the states? Sorry, but I call BS on that.

On the downside, they will be unable to do a quick fix as it will take a lot longer to ship new parts from the states to the races, none of which are in the states.

Yes, but of the races outside Europe only on is in North America, and only one in South America.

That's beside the point though.

An F1 team has a set cost for freight. ie: Williams must get its three transporters from Oxfordshire to whereever the race is. They take all the bits they need.

Under their model USF1 will have to send their race equipment and cars AND THEN send additional parts from the States.

That's doubling up isn't it?

How can that be cheaper?

why would I want that..? .. When I supported BMW for all these years I wasn't looking for people to come and join me..

there is a difference Lazurus too many Americans seam to think if you dont love us you hate us (is that because of your politicans who most in the real free world hated untill the recent new incumbant).
You need to understand questioning is what happens in all parts of the real free world and most dont think if you question you hate that is an american trait i suppose to think if you question you hate. In other parts of the world you question because you doubt not because you hate.
Most normal people understand the difference between doubt and dislike.
Most people who have posted seam to doubt due to what USF1 said early on only to fail to deliver not because they dont want them on the grid.
I for one would love to see them on the grid ( and would love even more to see them beat a certain MS into the dirt) but i still doubt because of what they have said and not deliverd so far not because of where they come from.

And…? that’s actually an advantage for them compared to the European based team who will have to ship outside their continent 10 times..



USF1 will do the same.. I don’t understand what you see as being different.. Just treat the Spain base as Oxfordshire for those 9 European races..

Been thinking much the same myself.


ISTR from the DDD saga that (re)designing and manufacturing the gearbox had just about the longest lead time of any part of a current car.
So presumably that would be where you started.
Unless you wanted to quickly make something that looked convincing - to the uninitiated.
Like digging up the old track and doing some earthworks, instead of doing anything discernible about the really expensive stuff, building things.
This sudden showing of tub and nosecone mouldings makes it look as though there is a car there.
But its actually the fewest mouldings to make it look most like a car.
There is an awful lot more to making it run, let alone reliably, or fast - let alone both.
I think that this has the flavour of a fundraising exercise. ("You can take us seriously, we have a car")

Its good that they've started (this week) putting up some videos.
Just a bit surprising that they should have waited until now to post a movie of what they did in those "three weeks" sometime "last August".

I'm still sceptical.
If they are going to be all New Media and interactivity, ummm, I'd expect them to have more to show the world, just six weeks before the car ought to be running.

I have to agree that the appearance at present does indeed seem to be consistent with cash being short.
However it would be naive to try and explain an unexpected cash shortage on the basis of high property prices in the USA.
Isn't this recession largely due to property prices slumping in that same USA?

Here is an example of why I think USF1 is full of it.

Windsor went on about how every step of the team would be on TV, and fans would have unrivalled access behind the scenes thanks to the "state of the art in house TV production facility."

So far we've seen a couple of clips posted on YouTube.

And what of the high tech production facility?



Well, from this photo the guy is cutting on Final Cut Pro on a Mac, with two monitors.

They have one other monitor on top of the tape deck, which appears to ingest Mini DV tapes.

Total outlay: About 2000 quid. Throw in a decent HD Mini DV camera and total spend might be 6000 quid.

Note the budget doesn't extend to speakers, the editor is using his iPhone earphones...

The poor chap's iPhone appears poised along with a pen and paper, waiting for a call for a better gig.

Hardly a "state of the art" TV production facility, you could buy the same set up almost anywhere.

And so far this facility has produced one clip showing bits and pieces turning up and the first tub being made, one interview with Windsor, and one with Anderson.

did I really say that..? there are many f1 suppliers today from the US.. The USF1 team I am sure will make use of those.. that will reduce their shipping cost.. Those teams who have contracts with Enkei wheels spend money having their wheels shipped.. Don't they?



same applies to any f1 team based in Europe who has to do a quick fix for those 10 races outside of Europe..actually they don't do shit.. and wait until the racing goes back to Europe.. and again most small teams don't have resources to fix all this.. Toro Rosso a couple years ago had a terrible car with zero updates..

its not such a big issue being based in usa and having a bridgehead in spain if the car isnt going tobe upgraded much, and given the tiny budget, it wont be...

OK and did you get lots of Swiss and Germans objecting to your interest? Or did you perhaps criticise (say) an Italian team and have them saying "noooo you can't criticise us you're American "?

Fact is a US team is interesting, new, the characters are characters, and there's plenty for discussion to latch onto with claims and counter-claims about what they're publishing.

But won't they be double handling?

Lets suggest Lopez has a massive shunt in practice for Monaco, and writes off a tub.

He's having a bad weekend so also knocks off a couple of wings.

Then in the race he crashes at St Devote.

Lets say the next round is in Barcelona.

Most other teams would return to their base, rebuild the cars, then dispatch them to Barcelona with fresh spaces from the factory.

USF1 would have to drive back to its Spanish bridgehead, as you put it, repair their cars, then wait for spares to arrive from the states.

If the spares don't arrive in time they'll have to be sent from the U.S. to the track.

So where other teams take everything with them, USF1 will be constantly chasing their tail and waiting for resupply.

Good Lord!! Classic example of "Damned if you do; Damned if you don't"

exactly.. Its a moot point and not one for people to be concerned with specially when they don't know the details.. Now, if their criticism is based on wanting them to match Redbull/Mclaren ..etc from day one than that is different story.. Getting the car on the grid is not a big deal really.

No quite.

I don't have a problem with USF1's little TV production facility, good on them.

But what they're doing with TV compared to what Windsor promised is really quite different.

All of which makes me wonder what else he has talked up when the reality is much more limited.

and when this happens to the current teams today in of the the 10 races outside Europe, what do they do?

It has nothing to do with "love us/hate us" mentality. If you are anti-French it's the same. If you are anti-German it's the same. Being "anti" of any country or it's people because of where they live is prejudice. Prejudice and doubt are two very different things. I cannot belive I have to type something so remedial, but hate has deep roots and it's easy to spin something to make it seem ok.

BTW - how our politicians are viewed has nothing whatsoever to do with it. As a matter of fact, anyone with any brain cells left is far more concerned with how they view their politicians (our employee's, if-you-will) than how they are percieved by the rest of the world; as you should be as well. In other words - don't try and put words in my mouth thank you.

Painting everyone with the same brush is rascism and if you cannot see that then I suggest you need to take a long hard look at yourself.

maybe that is his vision as the team grows and attracts more sponsors and gets more funding.. Did he promised that he'll have all of this before the first race of the 2010 season?.. I don't think he did..

I think the #1 priority right now is to get the car on the grid - the cosmetics and sophisticated engineer suits with logos should be the least of his worries and one that in reality he shouldn't be worried about knowing that they have a very small budget.. If they go all out and spend all of their money in making their facility look like Mclaren HQ it would be irresponsible from his part..

"We're in the entertainment business," Windsor said. "We're going to try and do the best TV show we can possibly do, 24/7."

Three YouTube clips in a year is hardly 24/7.

Because of the money involved, F1 (as most other successful professional sports) is entertainment first and sport second. The money has changed the sport for both good and bad.

I don't disagree with you on this.

And as I said a while ago, I do hope they make it to the grid.

Though as I've said, I reckon Windsor has over-promised and is on the verge of badly under-delivering.

but why have that now when they haven't even built the car yet.. It would be crazy now to spend money in entertainment..

The key words from that statement are "going to try"..

Clearly they will spend more on shipping than other teams. Unless of course they get free or subsidized shipping as part of a sponsorship deal.

But more importantly, everything else will be cheaper. Salaries, rent, insurance, taxes, machinery, materials, tools, etc. The cost of doing business in the US is vastly lower than it is in Europe. And it's easy to attract people to come over when the cost of living is so much lower. Your $XX,XXX goes a lot further in Charlotte than it does in England. You can live in an actual house instead of some dreary ex-council semi-detached where bands of feral youth stick knives into each other every night. And once those workers are in the US on a work visa, it's a lot harder for them to be poached away by someone else.

With the resource restriction agreement soon holding everyone to the same budget (in theory anyway), the long term advantage of being based in the US could be huge.

Fair enough on your take, but for me things don't quite stack up between this and your previous post.





That is is still one more than Virgin Racing and Campos Meta put together. Why everyone keep looking for so many negatives in USF1 when actually they need to be given some credit all the while giving a free ride to the other new teams is beyond me. If it is all related to the dislike to Peter Windsor, even then i think it is unfair on other members of USF1.

For me, USF1 have done enough to prove that they are on track to be in Bahrain. Brickbat them if they don't show up there. Not until then.....

For the record, i despise Peter Windsor for the fact that no one else does a more thorough job of arse licking than Peter in planet paddock......

It was a key part of his pitch to the media.

A picture of their TV edit suite is posted on the team's website.

Because so far a video is the only element USF1 appears to have delivered.

Virgin Racing has solid funding and two drivers.

As for Campos, they're in the same boat as USF1, perhaps slightly less serious given they've signed a driver and have an existing race team.

And I haven't got a particular dislike for Windsor, I used to read his stuff in F1 Racing and think he's good on TV.

But his first moves as a team owner have left me unconvinced, that's all.

@spacepig: I'd say you're right about assembling a labour force in the US, there are definite benefits. But getting the equipment to Europe, especially quickly, would be costly I reckon.

It's not the 1600s you know. They won't be waiting on the Mayflower to set sail from Plymouth and hope it'll make it across the Atlantic.
8 hour flight from East coast to europe, send em one day, they're there the next.

Sure, but at what expense?

A lot less than your thinking I would guess

Teams generally push things to the very last second with development parts.

I've been on a flight to Barcelona with F1 team members carrying bubble-wrapped bits as hand luggage...

A manageable expense I am sure