And your point being?

The USF1 building are under construction and USF1 have signed a deal with Motorland Aragon for the use of the facilities.

You don't take this as a positive sign? You consider this of no importance or as a negative sign then? Obviously the photos are not a proof that the team will be on the grid in 2010, but it would have been far worse if there ws no work going on in Spain or Charlotte. So far it seems like the European base will be a purpose built building (probably better than many of the other teams buildings), the Charlotte base has also been refurbished to a good quality it seems. We have even seen photos/videos of their tub being made. How many of the other teams have shown as much evidence of activity as USF1 has? Racecar Engineering have written that they have seen the car and said:



http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news/ca...st-chassis.html

Their comments about the factory is also in stark contrast to some of the "experts" on this forum:





http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news/ca...-s-factory.html

Translated:

Slightly ironic that you chose to quote that interview. It's the one with the infamous "Early November roller" promise

If I was making an argument about their schedule I agree (I haven't commented on the debate about the team being behind their schedule). My point was about the quality of the factory, which according to some of the "experts" on here reminds them about Overhaulin or American Chopper...

If the schedule have had to be adjusted, that's quite normal (but not allways poistive..)

Yeah, sorry, that probably sounded more aggressive than I wanted it to.

I can't blame him for talking up his facilities. Although the CFD supercomputer is off-site, and that should be autoclave singular.

No problem. Just for the record, this quote was the description that Racecar Engineering wrote (not Anderson):

José María López has said that James Rossiter and Pedro de la Rosa are candidates to race alongside him in the team... so, I guess Rossiter would be a total surprise...

true.


Some time ago Bernie talked about Klien, which made me think that he was on hi way to USF1...

Sorry you are incorrect but worse than that it shows your arrogance as you have no idea i could well be 42 semi-retired and considered one of the best at what i did, but then you don't know me so would not know if that was true or if i was a 15 year old red neck who thought if you don't love America and dare to question it you must be a commy or a terrorist.
One thing i can tell you is you in business you don't go shouting off your mouth about what you are going to do and when you are going to do it by unless you are certain that A the goal is achievable, B it is achievable within the time frame and, C you are certain of achieving both a and b. But thats common sense in the business world. Sorry if you don't understand that.
When i needed to achieve hard things in short timescales the one thing i never did was shout about it before i had made sure the above three points (A,B and C) were certain to be realized. USF1 failed on all 3 points and if you think someone questioning that fact has no idea about business then sorry it is you who is mistaken as no business worth its salt is normally that daft. Because as soon as you start to fail to live up to your own hype very quickly the business world starts to doubt all you say.
But then i am certain if you had vast amounts of business experience i would not have to explain such basic principles to you.
Perhaps you should stick with what you know not what you think you know.

Rossiter? There's a name I'd forgotten about!

I never put words in your mouth. You made a comment that things don't always go to plan. All I pointed out is that that is exactly what people are worried about.

Nor am I being melodramatic about it being the end of the world for a F1 team if they get behind and can not make it to the first race. In F1 that has a set date for the first race you cant afford to get behind because a F1 team without a car ready for the first race is out of the sport.

as for this...

Your post in filled with the same words to help push your agenda that USF1 is not going to make it - IF, maybe, perhaps; it's littered throughout your post and everyone elses that is pushing the same agenda.


Agenda? What agenda? This is paranoia to think that everyone concerned about any of the new teams has an agenda.

As for my post being filled with if's and maybe's (That I even highlighted in my own post ) it shows that I am not saying that they will not make it. It shows that I am not saying that they are behind schedule. It shows that I don't know how they are progressing. It means that I am not making any accusations towards the teams situation.

How pointing out that if they are behind now that they may have trouble catching up can show ones agenda of wanting the team to fail is beyond me. You accuse me of putting words in your mouth when I didn't, then have the hide to say that my concern has a hidden agenda of wanting the team to not make it. It is like your just trying to pick a fight with people for the sake of it.

Jazza i think you hit the nail on the head when you said concerned.
Yes there are some haters who will hate USF1 because it is US and yes i can also understand if them good old boys decide to get nationalistic but heck its not the USA but a racing team.
However many others are just concerned with what is happening.
Unfortunatly TGOB's just dont seam to be able to see the difference.

CFD... apart from CFD what might be so innovative?


US war machinery are quite often heavier but more powerful. 2010 engine is Cosworth. Chassis looks simple, but could well be over weight...

Why wdid they get an architect to design a workshop!!??

Chapman or Brabham would have laughed at an F1 team requiring such a poncy building surely!

Why not a simple modern-style concrete rectangular building!?

The complex likely requires a certain motif in the look of the buildings. It doesn't look any different than many of the other modern Spanish industrial buildings. At least in the US a steel building like that is less expensive to build than a concrete tilt up.

This thread is indeed hilarious. It should be re-titled, "Express your hatred of Peter Windsor, and feel free to use the most comically-absurd ammunition you can think of, including his shirts, the video-editing guy's earphones, the team's name, your expertise of shipping costs, the date the team chooses to announce their drivers, the room they stood in for one of their Tuesday morning meetings, US success in the World Cup, the weight of US-made military equipment, and the shape of their building."

Really, some of this stuff almost reads like it's from the Onion.

Do I think they'll make it to the grid? Yes.
Do I expect much more from them than that? No.
What reasons do I have for thinking this? Oh, I didn't know I needed any . . . How about, "I like the video-editing guy's earphones."

Peter's latest blog post is up. link For a man who spent the period away from work and in the UK, he seems to have some very odd ideas about everything closing down on the 18th. I didn't get that memo, I could do with a holiday. I must also remember to call my friends in Europe to tell them that any good weather they are experiencing is an hallucination and they must stay indoors and shiver until spring. It's for their own good.

More interestingly, he describes the current status of the first car..



This photo was taken on or before the 22nd Dec.



Yes, very busy over Christmas!

Of course, it would take a real cynic to point out that the difference between the leaked photo and the official description is a Cosworth engine he keeps telling us he hasn't got.

Have you never heard of business projects that have been behind schedule? I know of many projects with publicly known deadlines that has been running behind the company's schedule. Quite often, in the business world, a company has to give a time frame/schedule to be able to proceed or get funding to do what they want to. I'm not saying that it's good that USF1 seems to be behind their previous schedule, just that it's quite normal to give a schedule and it's just as normal (but not good) that you fall behind that schedule.

You're just joking right???

Some areas of the world actually requires a building to meet some criterias before getting building permission, that could be one reason. Apart from the daftness of making a comment about their building being to nice looking....

And what about McLarens building, that must make them the laughing matter of everyone in the F1 world according to your logic

We now have people complaining about the Charlotte factory looking to basic and the Spain base looking to nice. I'm starting to think that no matter what USF1 does it's the wrong thing in some peoples eyes...

Are you being serious? There is a HUGE difference in working hours between the US and Europe. He doesn't say that Europe closes down completely over Christmas, but we have more red days over Christmas and it's much more common that people take out holiday over Christmas over here. This obviously makes things more quiet over here and less productive. I think Windsor is quite spot on in his observations about the working hours etc. between Europe and US (and I know people in the US well and I also have an American relative over here in Europe working here right now).

Like it or not, they do work more over in the states than we do in Europe.

DFV you really need to learn the difference between a contract you take on which has dates fixed in the contract and dates for achievements you set yourself they are very different.

PaddockTalk visited USF1 recently and posted this article. One of the most interesting parts of the article is that "their occupancy certification did not come through until mid-September." It seems to me that this late move into their building might be what has put them behind the schedule they originally were talking about with a roller at the end of November.

PaddockTalk visits USF1

The only date I can find for a visit in the paddock talk article is Mid September, I can't be sure of course, but this reads as a fluff piece made up from an old visit and some press releases.

For example they talk of the windshear tunnel as an "extreme advantage" . We now know that USF1 designed the car solely with CFD, and can make use of the tunnel for no more than six sessions of four hours testing over the entire season.

The September "Occupancy Certification" could not have affected the November Roller, as that was promised in October. link

And how do you know their contracts included fixed dates? As I said, your posts are full of unsubstantiated opinion.

I've never been involved in any big project ($15m and up) that didn't have progress goals set by the individual/group that was funding the project. Sometimes you meet them, sometimes you don't. What you hope is that when you don't that there are reasonable explanations. So now you can go off saying, without form or substance, that their funds have been pulled because they didn't meet their deadlines. Enjoy



Just so you know, here in the States without a CofO you can forget working out of that facility. It just is not going to happen. Many things can push a CofO off. You can assume that zoning wouldn't be an issue as it in it's past life it was already zoned industrial/commercial for Gibbs. The most likely is the usual plumbing/electrial which seems to holdup all projects. Oh and the sun doesn't rise and fall on F1 for a plumber or electrical contractor; it just depends on what project pays the most .

As no they aren't wrong. Windshear will be a great advantage over other windtunnel facilities when they use it.

I don't doubt that in the Land of the Free there are plenty of laws saying you have to have the bureaucrats give you the right piece of paper to do anything.
But they had that piece of paper in September then promised a "early November roller" in October

Can you explain what seven post rigs have to do with model-making?


Or why ? I'd have thought the rest of the world had a basic grasp of reality, and assumed that USF1 would be using Cosworth lumps.

So it finally comes out huh. You hate America and everything it stands for and cannot wait to see USF1 fail. And some here think there's not anti-American sentiments

I believe Listerine (a US invention BTW for a surgical antiseptic) has dispelled any notion of it being otherwise (with regards to him/herself of course).

What a douche

Your arguments are becoming more desperate it seems

We have been debating the dates set out by USF1 themselves aren't we? So your point being?

The other dates, that the FIA sets, are that you have to have a race ready car by the first race (which means crash tests completed etc). Until the first race is here, or the team/FIA informs us otherwise, we have no evidence that USF1 will not have a car ready for the first race do we?

What other dates are you talking about that USF1 have not met and that are fixed in their contract?

Sorry, you've lost me there?

I think this quote speaks for itselves:



That comes across as quite anti American, it implies that the so called "Land of the Free" really is just a bureaucratic country and not really free if they actually have laws! How clever is that observation

There IS a difference between freedom and anarchy you know...

Not sure. But I know that the word listerine is cockney rhyming slang for someone who is anti-american. Is it something to do with that maybe?

I'd say that was a a reasonable phrase to use to someone who's signature is "Let Freedom Ring"

Why? Are you opposed to freedom? And what has his signature to do with your comments about America?

I still don't see the problem with freedom (Land of the Free) and a country having laws and regulations (as your post implies).

Your comment still (or even more after your last post) appears to be anti American.

OK cards on the table. I find the American shibboleth of "freedom" a little daft, a country that has the Patriot act and the Freedom 100 just seems funny to me.

And yes I want USF1 to fail. But I want it to fail on the track. I'm just not sure they'll make it.

Look back at my posts, I try to keep them reasoned and supply sources. I have an agenda, but so do you.

I will have a dig at the Septics every now and again (septic tank, it's rhyming slang, Yank. Likewise Listerine is "anti-septic") but really "Do you hate freedom" just plays to the stereotype. Next y'all be chanting "YOO ESS AY!!! YOO ESS AY!"

Guys, keep the topic on 'Will USF1 make it to the 2010 grid?'

You need to look at USF1 again sport. USF1 is NOT the USA's entry in the FIA F1 World Championship, it is Peter Windsor (Australian IIRC) and Ken Anderson (American). More the better for me as we are a melting pot of cultures .

Sorry its your posts that go off on silly tracks like contracts to try to get away from the simple fact USF1 said ( not because of a contract but because PW wanted to) that they would do a number of things by set dates (that they set themselves). They then failed to deliver every one of those promises and now you wonder why we question what else will they fail to deliver.

Things like CofO's would be taken into account by any real business or better yet if they were not certain about such things they would not set dates and make those dates public. Yes every business sets dates for all projects but they dont make them public!!!!
Why do you think most of the other new teams and infact most of the established teams dont set dates or atleast are not stupid enough to make them public unless they know they have a very good chance of meeting such deadlines?
The other thing to remember is we are not talking a week or two or just one or two things that slipped we are talking months and we are talking about all the deadlines they set.
So far the only consistent thing we have had from USF1 is broken deadlines.
Now for TGOB's it may be oh well its American so we dont care as long as they make it to the starting line.
However others who are used to companies delivering on their promises they rightly want to question what else are they going to fail to deliver.
If you cant understand such things thats your failing not mine.
I still hope USF1 make it to the starting grid and i still hope they are still around when the season finishes but i am sure as hell going to ask when deadlines keep on passing and nothing has been seen.
That being said it is good to see more information albeit months late finally starting to be published.
It would be even better if they acted as far as information releases are concerned more like Campos after all you hear very little we are going to do this and we are going to do that, but you hear from them we have done this we have passed that test they don't talk of what they want to do but what they have done.
One thing is clear team US F1 could learn a lot from the other new teams as far as information and future projections go.
If US F1 had said a little less about what they were going to do and instead said more about what they had done i am certain far less people would be questioning them.

Sorry Demo, but you were the first to "go off on silly tracks" and mention contracts with fixed dates etc (in the reply to my post (top of this page). In that reply you actually also seem to argue against your own previous statements or trying to get away from what you just previously said...).

Your replies about business strategies seem to be based on your own private experience and not on how other major businesses operate.

I understand that if deadlines are not met, then that opens up for questioning if they will meet the final deadline (first race). But some of the arguments seem to forget that we have actually seen more of what USF1 has been doing and building than any other team (that I know of). That the team themselves are talking up their position is understandable and should always be taken with a sound scepticism. We have however seen signs of progress and that should also be taken into consideration.

And USF1 have actually also made statements about what they HAVE done, but it seems like it's more convenient for you to forget about that. And in your business strategy it's a plus NOT to talk about what you are going to do? You have some very interesting views on business and PR strategies...

And can you tell me which other new team that has better information on their website/PR dept than USF1?

Guys, keep the thread on topic which is 'Will USF1 make it to the 2010 grid?'

really?
enjoy what you think i will enjoy what i know about myself

I said you don't set yourself deadlines you cannot meet. Talking up what you are doing is not the same!!!

That being said i do think PW has learnt the lesson perhaps it was over excitement at being in F1 perhaps it was the marketing guys losing it but we don't now see them making such deadlines any more.

Can you tell me what you think is more important a tub that has been crash tested and passed or a flashy website?
But then that is just about the one thing they did not promise to have up and running by a fixed date.
Not that i am complaining as most teams websites are flash/ shop windows for the team branded products over substance.


And you missed out the part where i said it was good to see more facts of what US F1 had done starting to be published.



That being said when do you think US F1 will finally get their tub crash tested as so far i still am not aware of them having having passed that very important test (unless you know better). Because as we all know without the tub passing CT they have no chance of a car.
Lets hope it passes first time as if it fails who knows how long it will take them to redesign/manufacture one that passes.

British.

You know what, just close it Forever, it's obvious we can't get past this and actually talk about the team.

All I ask is a sponsor. Named, announced, seen, promoted, the way sponsors are.

Agreed.

It would be great to see this team make the grid, but at the moment they're (publically) built on a castle of sand.

No amount of targeting other posters for having a different point of view changes this.

USF1 have done almost nothing to prove they're going to make it for this season.

It might be because they're going to surprise us and reveal all at some point in the near future.

But it's probably because they've haven't got all the pieces in place and are going to fail.

There's no glee or happiness (or anti-Americanism) in that. But it would be crazy to ignore the truth of the situation.

Yep he sure is. I wonder why I thought that.....hmmm don't know.

Finally, a honest poster here. But you realize the US Government isn't actually part of the "USF1" team right? It's not the CIA or FBI involved with development. It's not the US military building it. The closest they plan on going to the middle east is Dubai.

It's a European Peter Windor, a couple of American motorsports guys, and a building in NC, USA.

talking about sponsors, do you know who will be sponsoring sauber and campos?
I searched the Campos website and can't find any sponsors anywhere and does anyone know if there is a website for the new Sauber team..I can't find it..

Of course he doesn't, but he's choosing to ignore that because USF1's lack of a sponsor simply give him more ammo to use against them.

USF1 is no doubt doing everything it needs to in order to make the grid. When thy were accespted to the grid, where was it a pre-requisite that they had to disclose every intimate detail about their operations to the public?

Sure, I'd like to see evidence of progress that USF1 is going to make it to the grid and finish the season. But I don't see why they would feel the need to provide such information at this point. I'm sure they're working hard to prepare their car and sign as many sponsors as possible. Those sponsors are the only people they need to convince of their viability. I'm sure they're not all that concerned about diehard F1 fans that are posting on a forum in early January.

The new teams are all on shaky ground as far as I'm concerned until they make the first race of the grid in 2011. Yes, 2011. That means race for a whole year and survive another offseason. After that it will be looking pretty good for those that are still around.

We should create a new team thread for the season to keep track of the unofficial new team champion. The rivalry between them is going to be very interesting as a side story to the battle at the front.

About Campos, there is an article there, no mistery.

Campos needs $40M.
$10M Fia
$10M Murcia Gov + Other Supporters
$20M Pay Drivers

So once Campos defines the pay driver, they will announce the sponsorship.

I don't think that's an answer, so much as a deflection .

It looks like there is an aluminum block placed behind the carbon chassis on this photo. This should be the model of Cosworth DFV ( ;) ) that USF1 was talking about.


BTW does it make sense to have chassis split in two section (upper and lower) and glue it together? it gonna split into two while racing, is not it?