Thanks for the welcome

It just really saddens me to know that everyone over in Europe thinks of us all racing lawnmowers, yelling git er done, and driving in circles.
We are not, sure we like seeing cars go in circles, but technically F1 cars go in circles to, just circles that were drawn badly.

To the point I hope USF1 makes it to the grid. It would be great for support of a race here in the US which we sourly need. We just need Bernie to realise that F1 needs to be here.

They're not going to be "my team" But i wish them well, and I hope once they show up on the grid in Bahrain that everyone supports them.

Not everyone thinks that about US racing. US racing has som much to offer, on so many levels

I have been to the US several times and love it over there, your car culture is so much more diversified and larger than the European. Me and my family is going to California for three weeks in March - April, really look forward to it.

Can I just say, the suggestion that criticism of USF1 is based on anti-Americanism is absurd.

It is based on what appears to be quite an unorthodox approach to competing in F1, and the questions that remain ahead of their debut.

Nothing to do with the ability of U.S employees when compared to Europeans.

To suggest criticism is anti-American is a pointless diversion from the subject at hand IMO.

I really don't think this needs to be turned into some "anti American" thing, because it doesn't seem that way to me. When people like Bernie Ecclestone are suggesting USF1 AND Campos won't make it to the grid in March, then people will sit up and listen. He may be wrong, but I suspect he has valid fears. And the people posting here have their own eyes and ears too.. they can make their own judgements. The fact USF1 can't test in Europe at the start of the year is a big indicator that they may have bitten off more than they can chew and may have under estimated just how important a European base is to compete in F1. It's just the way it works. Again, nothing anti American about that. The same would apply if the team were based in Australia. And personally I didn't think there was anything wrong with the American motor racing industry. But it's easier when all the races are in America.

On the the topic of entry fees;

Aren't the entry fees deposits that are then given back to the teams over time? The purpose of the deposit is to weed out serious applicants from pretentious applicants (or at least it was at the time of the $50,000,000 number). Over time, the money would be given back to the teams. It'd be pretty absurd to ask teams for such a high amount of money with no intention of giving it back.

If there is an entry fee today, I'd imagine it's along the same lines. Whatever money teams give as an entry fee would eventually be given back.

And you guys refuse to admit that much, let alone any of the criticism is fair. Many of us do want the team to succeed, but are quite worried from some of the signs.

It's half a dozen posters. The forum is like that .

People are much much less likely to post to agree about something than they are to argue .

And a lot of the pessimism and hostility is about Windsor (a Brit ) and his endless bull.

Let's not have that debate all over again, as if you care to go back a few pages it became very clear that a few of the posters had, and some even admitted to, anti- American views.

Some of the posters are just critical towards the team, others (and there seem to be one or two of those as well) are arguing out of a "Europeans are doing it better" viewpoint.

But let's not go further down that road, our new guy has said how he perceived it when he read the last pages and we have commented on that. The topic is if the USF1 team will show up on the 2010 grid. Let's keep on discussing that.

I made my comment specifically because the new guy brought up the anti-American thing.

The way I see it, the argument is not about Europeans doing it better, but the European model of going F1 racing (having a factory and all the staff under one roof, or at least in pretty close vicinity) being the best way to success.

Correct thats how i perceived what I read. You guys just commented on it, and I responded. Also sorry about my "everyone" comment. I know not everyone in Europe views us that way, i was just using a figure of speech, I guess. Anyway back on topic, I believe the rumor that they werent going to be on teh grid till spain has been shot down.

Well USF1 have denied it to Jonathan Noble.

That doesn't mean shot down just yet.

If USF1 are fighting for survival they're hardly going to confirm the story.

They could be lobbying hard with the FIA and Ecclestone to be allowed to start the season late.

Once the FIA confirm its bullshit, which they probably will tomorrow, we can totally discard the story.

But yeah, probably not true.

the us f1 from the beginning said they were going to do things differently. Snobs hate this because they think things should be done their way or the highway. Same concept that drives ethnocentric people in europe to despise the immigrants. US is known for going against the traditional ways of doing things. This is not necessarily bad for everything because the US is the leading country in major fields. Perhaps some people is europe are afraid that this unorthodox way of building a race team, which is what they call it, will find some success relatively quickly and destabilize their preciuos gem. If they want to continue to make their claims that F1 is indeed global then they should accept that doing things ouside of europe is not a problem but instead something that extends formula 1 to other regions of the world and make it more acceptable to others.

I'm not afraid of it, and I'm not a European by the way.

I'm just unsure that it's going to work with USF1.

I think the model might work if the team had full funding, but we don't know that yet either.

Anyway, plenty will be clear in the next month of so.

I really need to stop making random posts.

But one thing that has struck me this silly season is that most rumours that came out proved to be founded (Toyota withdrawing, Alonso moving to Ferrari, Barrichello and Rosberg swapping seats, Renault withdrawing (although it wasn't a complete withdrawal), Button to McLaren, Michael Schumacher returning). And among those rumours were these doubts about USF1's progress.

But then, other rumours have been proven false (Rosberg to McLaren, Raikkonnen to McLaren) so these rumours may have no bearing on USF1.

Wow, I totally failed on the stop making random posts part.

Either of those scenarios could have easily happened.

Raikkonen was close to signing for McLaren but they couldn't make the deal happen.

Rosberg was always going to be a Mercedes driver this year, team McLaren or team Mercedes was the only question.

Well, I obviously provided rubbish false rumours.

Don't be so hard on yourself son!

I hope they build the damn car with Roogards and push everyone out of their way. Rubbin's racin'

the european media is going to have to start sending journalists to Charlotte if they want people to take their rumors seriously. As of right now the only credible source for breaking news about the usf1 team is Bob Varsha and his crew from SpeedTV which by the way was also spot on about his initial comment about Schumacher's comeback.

Not necessarily.

The FIA is in Paris and if an application to start the F1 season late was made to them the news could come from there.

Or from Ecclestone in London.

If it's US-American , and being critizized, it's anti-US propaganda, period.

As a relatively new member, I feel more pressure to make an impression. Right now, I've made an impression of being someone who posts random crap related to F1 without fully thinking it through.

But back on topic, if USF1 don't make it, then we certainly won't see a driver with the number 22 win the championship.

I don't follow, what do you mean?

That to criticise any company operating in the United States is anti-American?

Mate, don't sweat it!

If anybody is going to make an application for a late start to the season, it's Campos. I have no idea where this rumour about USF1 started, and nor is there any proof. I'm just going to file it away as "More crap from people who don't want to believe USF1 could be as serious as they say they are", mmmkay?

'Gazetta isn't a totally shite rag though.

It has been right in the past.

Anyway, I guess we'll find out tomorrow when James Allen rings the FIA as promised.

I swear I'm trying to stay on topic. It just seems cynical to me that when USF1 isn't saying anything publicly, it's because "they are doomed" not because they are working hard. And when they do release news (such as a new hire, interview or the nose cone crash test video) it is because they are behind/out of money/ or otherwise doomed. It baffles me why the reaction is so negative, when there is no info or new info about the team. Someone just said that USF1 is not going to be "their team" when the season starts. I agree. They won't be mine either. But that doesn't mean I want to poop on everything they do or don't do or say or don't say. I want the team to be there for F1. I think it will be interesting. I fully expect them to be at or near the back, but it would still be a very interesting expedition into F1. I therefore check around the internet, here included, for the latest on the team. When people post rubbish, it creates a fog that is not helpful to myself and others I imagine.

So thanks to those who offer at least somewhat substantiated info - no matter what it indicates about the fate of USF1.

BTW I never did get an explanation for the claim that they failed those crash tests as someone said. Wonder if that was wishful thinking?

That's not true. We also race bar stools... GIT R DONE!

I'm a British woman, who lives in London and San Diego. I am fully aware of anti-American attitudes of many Europeans, which is evident on this forum.

The sad thing is a lot of these negative attitudes are based on completely wrong or outdated stereotypes, many with no actual experience with Americans.

A lot of Europeans I know spend a lot of their time or energy criticizing Americans, while many of the Americans I know have no opinions about Europeans negative or otherwise.

The moment anything negative (and unproven) is suggested about USF1, this board jumps on it like it was proven fact.

A few people are anti-American, that's all. George Bush is gone, there's nothing special about being pro-American now.

Most of the speculation and criticism is about the behaviour we see - not delivering on promises, and issuing feeble PR photos videos and interviews that don't ring true. Little bits of generic c/f, machining etc etc. Nobody likes BS.

If they would just annouce one solid sponsor most of us would start to believe. And until then most of us won't.

On the contrary, a lot of Europeans know that American knows how to materialize work-hard-play-hard.

More discussion in the line of 'European-dislike-Americans, therefore intimidates USF1' is a absolute Non-Issue.


You could, if you wish to do so, perhaps refocus it and blame more specific target group but so far Talk on USF1 is partly based on question about their fairly-tale like appearances and doubts on their relaxed approach to Formula One.

New team like Lotus (from Malaysia_GB), or Virgin (of where from) does their deal of image marketing while from USF1, we hear time after time, don't worry mate everything is all right, which does not sounds all right..... So it is more about Crit on Windsor-Anderson than Americans in general.

About this uniform thingy, it may worked out better if they were to do it,.. it was the choice...

In my opinion the problem is not what we see, it's the way some people interpret what they see...

This is what people commented on two of the USF1 issues:

The nose cone crash video:
People claim that it did not pass (no proof or facts delivered on the claim when asked to)
People commented that one onlooker was shaking his head (that can't be good for the progress of the team....???)
The nose cone disintegrated the wrong way (just a personal opinion or fact?)

Photos from the workshop:
People don't wear uniforms and look scruffy (what has that got to do with the fact that USF1 actually have a clean workshop and are making parts? Why not discuss the parts or progress?)
They look like someone Windsor just pulled in from the street to pose (even though they are posing next to a tub or other parts of the car - so someone must have made those parts and someone must have put in a lot of work to refurbish the factory just for it to be a photo studio...)

Is this commenting on what is really what we see in the video or photo or is it more to do with wanting to interpret what we see into something negative???

Do we see comments like this when the Lotus nose cone was crashed or other photos from other teams emerge? In fact we have seen a lot less from most of the other teams but we still believe everything they say about their progress, then why not with USF1? Are they less credible just because more people start unfounded rumours about the team?

Yes, they (Windsor?) talked about an early November roller and that didn't happen, that's not good. I'm also concerned about their progress and hope that they will pass their final crash tests and have a car ready for Bahrain, but according to the team and managers of the Barber track, they are planning to run their car in early february. At this point I choose to believe that story and wait until we hear more about the Italian rumours.

USF1 have appointed a Team Manager

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/formula-1-news/2...s-team-manager/

That story already broke yesterday (see first post, previous page, on this thread) http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?s=&a...t&p=4073265

But that is indication of the team moving forward and building a race team.

I think we've seen enough to suggest the team has the infrastructure in place to produce a F1 car, and finish races this year. However I think they are a long way behind schedule, at least 3 months - probably 6 from what I would personally like, and I think they've been doing an awful lot of talking with nothing to show for it yet. I much prefer the attitude and direction of Lotus, who have quietly signed an experienced technical head who has hand picked ex-Toyota, Honda and Jordan staff, and 2(!!) experienced drivers. They've had a 30% model in the tunnel for months and all the while they haven't felt the need to talk up what they are doing, or complain about time, Europeans, holiday breaks or the price of eggs like Windsor.

As others have said, some sponsor and driver signings at this point would be great, and a name like Coulthard or Fisichella would be fantastic, hell even a Klien or Sato, but it seems like it will be pay drivers.

We'll that's my position entirely. I don't know where these Americans get this bizarre inferiority complex from that if you think the USF1 team is looking a bit shaky at the moment, you must have it in for America. It's the team concept and the progress that are in question, not their bloody location. Could I add that I hope, as ever, that they do prove to be a success.

Can we please discuss the topic and not other posters. Attacking groups is no different to personally attacking single posters, please stop it.

I guess it's a bit how you see it.

USF1 has also hired other ex. F1 staff including Bernard Ferguson and one high ranking member of the Brawn team and also others with F1 experience. They have not signed drivers like Lotus has done and I would also have liked announcements about that and sponsors, but the USF1 team is not alone in not announcing all of that yet (Sauber has no title sponsor signed yet and Campos is struggling with finances apparently). USF1 does not need a 30% model because they are doing their design using CFD so you can hardly use the lack of a 30% car against them (the CFD method might prove to be ill advised but Virgin is also designing with the aid of CFD).

You might like or dislike Windsor. As a non UK citizen, I have no previous knowledge of Windsor. Didn't know much about him before the USF1 project. I just have to read what he says without that previous knowledge you guys seem to have. And for me, as an "Windsor outsider", it doesn't come across much different to what other team managers say. In fact, compared to what some of them said last year, Windsor comes across as an example of modesty...

So I guess our views are fairly coloured by our likes and dislikes and we (me included) tend to find the positive about the ones we like and the negatives in the ones we dislike. Just start a discussion about Crashgate or Spygate and you will find people with very strong, but totally oppsoing views, on the exact same facts. Based on what is their favourite team, driver, nationality etc.

On the Speed Report on SpeedTV last night Bob Varsha said he'd been to the USF1 facilities on Friday. He made a comment something like, "If the car goes as good as it looks, it's going to be fast."
Not hard data on whether they'll be ready for Bahrain, I know, but it's a comment by someone respectable who's seen the team's work recently, so I thought I'd share.

Nigel Mansell famously said that at the launch of the 1995 McLaren!

DFV I'm not from the UK either but he was friends with Mansell and rode his coattails into jobs at Williams and Ferrari, followed Mansell to the states and once Nigel stopped racing went into Journalism. This is actually his 3rd attempt at team ownership/startup, the first two failed. He became a millionaire by suing the golfer Greg Norman. Awful thing to say, but one of his greatest claims to fame to this point was being a passenger in the car in Frank Williams' car accident. He edited F1 Racing mag for a while and did TV pieces for some stations like speed, starsports, CH.10. and was doing the official post-race press conferences the past few seasons.

While he certainly has history in the paddock I don't know if he has management ability, but then as sporting director who knows what his actual role is, it seems to be akin to Nick Fry at this point in schmoozing sponsors and handling PR duties, and in this case acting as Ken and the team's link to the paddock and F1 world.

He was right. The car was both hideous and slow (once he could get in it).

Ok, this might be a little unrelated. Why would Best Buy want to spnsor USF1? Most sponsors are organaisations that run globally and as far as I know best buy is only in the US (and possibly Canada)?? So by being a sponsor what attention do they expect to get from non-US based fans. E.g an increase in how aware we are of the brand won't effect their sales as most of us don't live in the US. Sorry for going off topic.

I am going to hazard a guess and say that they will reveal everything when they launch their car.

But this is only a guess.

Same reason as many of the current sponsors that are just European brands or even just national brands, maybe represented in a few mainland european countries. Don't forget how huge the American market is. I guess it would make just as much sense as it would for a European company, like Renault, to be present in F1.

It shows you how good Mika Hakkinen was as he was able to get a few second place finishes out of it.

Indeed. But we're off topic. Back to the wild, wonderful and possibly made up world of USF1.

At least there's a car to look at then.

See how my post about it's all about how you want to take the information at hand and interpret it comes into this thread once again...

Someone has seen the car (not clear at what stage of completion) but instead of taking that as a positive sign, we are finding other similar comments from the past to ridicule them and say it's probably just gonna be a dog....

It's all about perception, if you want them to fail you perceive the news in such a way as to find something negative about it. If you want the team to succeed you take info as this as a positive sign for the team.

Interesting how the same story can be met with such differing views on it (and that's not an observation just about USF1, but could apply to any F1 team or other subjects for that matter).

If there was no crunch, then some banks should have had contact with USF1... But now? And that is the problem I assume, of possible cashing dry out or fall of guarantee...