How do you know that? Both teams are being poulated with people who know what they're doing. Manor has Nick Wirth, and while Simtek might have been a failure, he's been designing Le Mans Prottypes for a while now, and the Acura LMP wasn't half bad. Plus, he's been heavily involved with the FIA's efforts to improve overtaking ad since he's the only person designing a car with CFD alone, I'm pretty sure he'll be the man in the paddock with the most intimate knowledge of the system. As for USF1, they've got Andserson and Windsor who have both been invovled in the sport for decades, as well as snaring Bernard Ferguson from Cosworth. It's not as if these guys are building their cars in their garage and I'm dead certain that whatever they bring to Bahrain will be better than anything you could have put together.


Really? I must have missed the season when Sauber won the championshi.


A "top three" team (I use the term loosely since Sauber have been anything but a top three team all seaon) who have been purchased by a group nobody knows anything about. And, just so you know, Campos can also block their entry and it was Campos - not USF1 or Manor - who blocked Sauber an incurred the wrath of Norbert Haug. If USF1 or Manor voted, they clearly didn't block them


From rumour and hearsay, Lotus is the best-organised team there is. And if you'd checked the main page, you'd see the FIA are impressed with USF1's progress, which jut goes to show how organised Lotus are. They may not have a car, but a lot of people believe they will either purchase the Lola chassis which has been in development despite Lola missing out (I believe they intended to become a design studio, which explains it), or they will use Mike Gascoyne's designs from when he was with Litespeed. They also have faclities; they're moving into a place in Norfolk that was previously used by Toyota to develop the Toyota GT-One Le Mans car. And as for the name, as Proton owns Lotus, they have every right to use it.


No progress? Have you not seen the preliminary design images they released? Or what about the pictures they posted showing their facilities? Or how about the FIA being impressed with their progress? If they're not broadcasting through YouTube, so what? That was just gravy, and they'll probably end up putting one single documentary together once everyhting is done, rather than showing a serialised version. Once again, you're denying reality simply because you don't want USF1 in the game.


I'm twenty-three. I've been following the sport since the age of about seven or eight; I can't really remember.

Once again, I doubt we're going back to the bad old days. See, in 1992, you could start a Formula One team up for about $500,000. But now, it costs millions, and the FIA control the allocation of the grid places. When they opened it up to new entries, prospective entrants had to submit a very detailed proposal outlining their plans to join the grid. Andrea Sassetti, on the other hand, bought his entry from another team. He didn't plan any of it, and he simply wanted it to improve his image. It was a business deal, whereas USF1, Campos, Manor and Lotus are all racing teams. If they're not racing, they're not doing anything.


Again, Sauber were bought out by an unknown organisation. And the only reason they won in Canada was because Hamilton took out Raikkonen.

Formula One IS about the best teams. If you'd followed the entry selection process, you'd know fifteen teams were submitted, and almost all of them were excellent entries.


Do you actually think about what you're writing? None of the teams would back pre-qualifying. It's so expensive to enter and estabish a team and sponsors invest so much in it that if pre-qualifying were re-introduced, there would be a reasonable chance that they would not get to qualify, much less race. How long do you think sponsors would stay with a team if that happened? Not long; they'd be gone in an instant, and those teams that didn't make the grid would fold shortly after.

Hey there, does anyone know if there is an F1 and Computing section here on ATLAS? All this talk of Team US and their computers got me thinking it might be an interesting subject, but I am loathe to start a thread, as I haven't yet, and thought there might be one here already, or a discussion within the other forums.
I'm quite interested in computing, and as there are now some amazing technologies such as cloud computing and GPU based parallel processing, capable of replacing large room sized mainframes, this might be a good thread that may grow as even newer technologies emerge.
I'm sure there is a wealth of knowledge here, and I would love some inside views on how teams use computers and what they use.

This is an interesting, yet old read:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-leads...nship,5191.html

I don't want to detract from this thread, perhaps someone more eloquent and with a bit more knowledge, could start a thread perhaps?

Eating crow definition.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=eat+crow

Why bother trying to respond to him.

Do yourself a favor and put him on your ignore list like I did.

If Sauber are not in F1 then blame BMW, no one else. They were the ones who were unwilling to sign up.

FIA impressed by US F1's progress

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79339

I'm sure by now most posters have read this. Seems to be legit...guess USF1 will be ready to run by January..

I sure do hope that most posters have read it as the article was linked to yesterday. The Autosport article is also linked to on the previous page.

BS stops 12th March 2010 in Sakhir. Until then ...

Fair enough. I thought it looked fake because the top of the screen looks a bit blurred and wavy. Probably is legit. Thanks.

Perhaps... but it would be nice for some posters to write: 'Hmm, I remain sceptical, but it slowly seems I could be wrong...'

PS: I am not specifically referring to you Peroa, I don't know your behaviour on this Forum well enough for that...

This team is the real deal. hope they can sign some decent drivers though.

The Mac probably was indeed probably plugged in to a live power socket and switched on.

However, why would they offer a photo of a guy looking at a picture of a CFD image, instead of showing a guy actually doing CFD work?

It depends what you mean by "legit".
This seems much more like a PR con than evidence of anyone doing real engineering.

Was the composite-curing oven functioning? Any sign of anything at all that they had made in it?

The FIA are reported as saying that they had made progress. I gather that the reason for the visit was because the FIA thought that dramatic progress was required.
From the word-for-word similarity between the stories
http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/10/08/...fia-inspection/
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79339
it would seem to indicate a common origin, most likely in a USF1 press release.
So they are issuing press releases to deny rumours of their unreadiness ... and publishing pictures of a guy looking at a picture on a Mac.
Hmmm.

Having been a 60/40 sceptic, I'm now probably 50/50 unconvinced either way.
I'm certainly not fully convinced by this particular bit of PR.

Was the composite-curing oven functioning? [/quote]

Tell me, why would you invest in and install a composite-curing oven if it's not functioning?

F1: Summerton Expects US Team Seat In 2010

Don't forget, PR ploys always work to some sort of end. What end would it serve to fool the FIA into thinking they are making headway when, in fact, they are not?

I just don't buy the "PR Stunt" because there is nothing to be gained from doing that.

And how do you know he's not actually doing CFD work?

In order.

1) yes, USF1, Lotus, and probably the bloke next door could bring a better package than me, given the fact that I am not an F1 designer, aero guy, or indeed anything related to F1, (other than on the IT side, where I have worked with McLaren when I worked for a software vendor that sponsors them. On that note, I can tell you every McLaren employee I have come across is a total tosser). Yes, Simtek was a failure. End of. Unless the FIA suddenly decide to introduce robotic dogs into the equation, Wirth has been absolutely shit at F1. Windsor is a big bag of air. Everything he predicts turns out to be wrong. He was a shit team manager and he is a shit journalist.


2) BMW Sauber were fighting for the WDC in 2008. They have an amazing lineup of people, (I know because I know a number of them personally). They came second in 2007 and third in 2008 in the WCC.

3) Campos probably would block Sauber because they wouldn't want to be beaten by another team. Lotus, USF1 and Manor are easy pickings, but if Sauber, (2nd in 2007, and 3rd in 2008 with the best supercomputer on the grid), were on the grid, Campos would lose a place. Still, they are the ONLY new team that has a chance of being any good.

4) Yes I have seen the pictures of the FOUR people employed by USF1. My dad's small business employed more people. USF1 were supposed to be showing every step on the the web long before now, to turn F1 into some sort of Big Brother. They haven't because John's butchers in Sollihul has more employees than USF1.

5) You never saw the joke teams. When you can't compete because your engine supplier hasn't been paid, or your team owner get's arrested, then you see the downside to shitty teams.

6) Don't quite understand. The new teams will be tooling around at the back of the grid like in the bad old days. This season, we are seeing top to back seperated by less than 2 seconds. In the bad old days, it was more like 10 seconds. Why is it good to have movable chicanes?

7) The only reason that Lewis won the WDC in 2008 is because Glock gifted him a win, allied to the fact that Singapore was fixed, Ferrari let Massa down etc etc. I could give you a reason why every single race winner shouldn't have won for the last 20 years. Sauber, the team is the same bunch of guys that came 2nd and 3rd in the WCC for the last couple of years.

8) The biggest point of all. Who would ever admit to being scared to not pre qualify? You are too young to experience pre quali, but what you are saying is that there are teams that have been given guarenteed slots that are scared that they couldn't ever make a race. They are not worthy of a guaranteed slot if they can't even be confident of passing pre quali.

HOLD ON EVERYBODY, THIS GUY'S DAD, HAS A BUSINESS. AND IT EMPLOYS MORE THAN 4 PEOPLE. WE ALL BETTER LISTEN TO HIM

You're ridiculous

So because Wirth designed one bad Formula One car, all his designs will be bad? Simtek might hav failed, but he stayed in the business. He worked for the OWG's predeessor, designed Le Mans cars for Acura and helped develop the FIA's windtunnel projects. The fact that Manor is the only team to be using computational flow dynamics alone makes me think that Wirth knows more about the system than anyone in the paddock, and I believe CFD is being pitched as the future of race car designs.

As for Windsor, he's not the only person invovled in USF1. Ken Anderson is too, though I'm not sure what role he plays.


It still doesn't change the fact that QADBAK is compeltely unknown. Nobody knows where that money is coming from, who is invovled or what their goals are. I think you can forgive the teams for being more than a little wary about them.


You have no idea how good Lotus, USF1 and Manor are or will be. You're assuming they'll be bad n the basis that you want them to be bad. I'm still not sure why; you're probably sour that the FIA didn't choose Prodrive and Lola and so you think you know better and if those teams fail, it will be the proof you need to claimthat you know what's better for the sport. Stop presenting your opinions as facts, because your opinions are faulty; if you'd read the articles when Lotus was annouced as the thirteenth team, the FIA commented that BMW Sauber's proposal was excellent, but only just edged out by Lotus. They're clearly deserving of more credit than you're giving.


No, you have seen pictures of four people employd by USF1. There is plenty of potential for other people to be employed by the group who were simply never photographed.


An that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. You seem to be implying that because I haven't seen the bad teams in action, I can't judge what a bad team is. That's as may be, but I followed th entry process from start to finish. I know that USF1 didn't just show up at the FIA's headquarters and say "Yeah, we'd like to be in, thanks". They had to put together a proposal. They had to outline finances, sponsorship, design plans, their goals for the sport; a whole list of things to make a case for their being accepted to the grid. The entire point of the selection process is sto epeates of Andrea Moda and Life.


They might be slow to begin with, but as Force India proved, you can get better. The sport needs to grow, not just in terms of the calendar, but in the number of teams competing. With the failure of Super Aguri last season, Formula One has had just twenty cars, the lowest number in its recent history. The best thing for the long-term futue of the sport is to promote new teams joining. Even if they are a little slow at first. Because that beats having all the cars fall off the gird.


It doesn't mean it will be the same tem under QADBAK. For all we know, th critiacl guys jumed ship when BMW withdrew.


Could you have missed the point any more?

In order to get an entry and keep competing, a team needs money. Lots of it. That money comes from sponsors. Sponsors lend their name to a Formula One team so that they can get coverage. But if you introduce pre-qualifying, there is a very high chance that a team will not make the grid. Even if all the cars are equal someone misses out. And if a team does not make the grid, sponsors do not get the coverage. If they don't get coverage, they leave. If they leave, the teams don't get money. And if the teams don't get money, they can't survive. Pre-qualifying might have worked twenty years ago, but the sport has progressed so far and become so much more expensive that no-one would be willing to commit to it.

Your argument seems to be based on the fact that you're older than me and have been watching it for longer. This is a very poor argument becase you've failed to notice that Formula One has not remained static over the past twenty or so years. So if you had been watching longer than I, you would have noticed that the sport has grown and evolved; since you clearly have't picked up on this, I have to ask: what the hel were you doing all this time?

As a long time Mac user you should know that Preview does not generate a screen-wide blue bar on the top of the image...

Still, there is nothing fake about this picture. The guy is looking at a real 23" Apple Cinema Display, using Apple mouse and keyboard.
USF1 use bunch of 3-years old Xserve G5 cluster nodes mixed with a few newer dual quad-core 'Nehalem' units (8x2.93GHz).
They run customized Xgrid software architecture (UNIX-BSD) for most of their CFD jobs.

BTW all this hardware and software was designed and assembled by Apple and Intel in California U.S.A. with no UK or EU involvement.

Everybody here who's smashing at Lotus, remember the support from the Malaysian government: the money is there and that's what matters. If Super Aguri made it to the grid a few years back, why can't they?

Simtek actually had a pretty good car for a new team, iirc, they just never had any money. But then Wirth is an engineer, not a businessman.

Even though it's the wrong thread - Super Aguri had old chassis to start with... Lotos has, as far as we know, _nothing_ except some ideas in their minds. Six months to build an F1 car from scratch, starting with a white sheet of paper? I'd be fairly impressed. Nevertheless I hope they make it to the grid in Bahrain 2010.

some here act as if building an f1 car is for rocket scientist only_ given the right resources new teams should be able to build an f1 car. Is not like we are asking them to beat ferrari/mclaren from day one. Everyone starts at the bottom and little by little they have chances to become more competitive.

And Wirth isn't even team owner and princpal: John Booth is.

I remember Verstappen not doing bad at all in qualy in the first races of the 1995 season. Their car was definitely better than Pacific's or Forti's. Verstappen still could qualy ahead of Inoue, Wendlinger and Suzuki too...

You do realise that Apple use Chinese workers on slave labour rates to manufacture their equipment, whilst Intel chooses Chinese, Vietnamese and Maylasian slave labour?

and what does this have anything to with building an F1 car.. ?

Look at the quote.

Fresh doubts about USF1 in an article by Auto Motor und Sport today:

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-...f1-1441030.html

I don't think that someone with the prestige of Bernard Ferguson would lend his name to a scam as he has just joined USF1 from Cosworth

I don't trust a spiv like Windsor but I think that despite him this project will get off the ground

That's not looking good at all.

It is nearly November.

Surely they've have more bits and pieces concreted by now.

Nice little earner though

Sell the grid slot to Sauber for £20m, pocket £10m each

I agree that Bernard Ferguson wouldn't (probably) leave his job if there wasn't some kind of sustainability in the project. Let's hope this is just rumours.

Oh, and btw Ferguson didn't join USF1 from Cosworth. He left Cosworth a couple of years ago.

It's clear that Auto Motor Und Sport is deliberately trying to undermine this effort. Their allegation that the whole thing was an empty building didn't work out, so now they're throwing ever more ridiculous shit against the wall in hopes it will stick. Now they're worried that they will cater hamburgers? Come on. These kind of articles are very damaging to sponsorship efforts, and I don't think that's accidental.

The idea that this is some sort of elaborate scam is absurd. They can't sell the slot- if they don't make it, Sauber gets in automatically. USF1 have easily spent more than $10 million already, possibly $20 million. There are easier ways to run a scam than that.

I've said it before, and I'll probably say it again: people are fixated on USF1 being a failure in the making because they're American, not because of any genuine inability to ge tthe job done.

I agree that it seems like USF1 gets its unfair share of flak. Which will make it all the sweeter when they do show up and make it!

I can only speak for myself but the only reason I want to see USF1 fail is Windsor, if he was to quit I would wish them success but I can't wish USF1 well with Windsor there so want them to fail as I could not stomach this self important egotistical windbag getting an even bigger ego were USF1 to start getting points so with Windsor involved I either want them to not start the season or to be the next Life/Mastercard Lola/Andrea Moda

How sporting some people are.... Hey it's F1 - it's entertainment and fun. Let's speculate and see what happens for sure, but so serious? Please..
Good luck to USF1. As I've said before FIA are accepting them so it cant be BS. As someone else said there are easier scams, and cheaper ways of massaging egos...

This is about Windsor's ego

He has wanted to own a team for decades, he tried to buy Brabham with Greg Norman, he tried to buy a ChampCar team so team ownership has been an obsession of his for decades so now he has got it his already overdriven ego will rise off the scale

"Hey look at me darling I am an F1 team owner" when he goes to try and get off with another tart in a club

The shop is operational and has been turning out parts for almost a couple of weeks now. During the next Speed F1 race broadcast Matchett will give a tour of the factory. Regardless of how much experience one has they can not ascertain the suitability of a manufacturing facility based on limited pictures. As for Wurz, it's likely they could be looking to see how the driver lineups change at the end of the season. There are going to be plenty of people looking for work both drivers and crew people. The burger comment is pure comedy gold. So, it's a scam effort yet 5 months out they have decided on what's going to be in the hospitality tent? Sure they have....

yep the RPM segment will feature USF1 should be interesting since the RPM red bull segments they were showing was shot a year ago had nothing to do with the 2009 season.

That's a pretty poor attitude to take. He may not be the best journalist, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be a team principal.

Did you really expect Red Bull to reveal their current car details?

You can say it as many times as you want, doesn't mean it's true.

I was (and still am to a lesser extent) doubtful of their chances based on the facts, not the nationality.

Which facts are those? USF1 seem to be in roughly the same place as the other new teams with regard to scheduling and delivery times.

I was about to ask the selfsame question: what facts are we talking about here, exactly? USF1 were the first team to release sketches of their car. They were the first team to show photographs of their working envionrment. They'll be the first team to have a rolling chassis on the ground, even if they missed their self-imposed deadline of the end of the month. There has been nothing to indicate tha theya re in trouble, aside from rumour and supposition and one mass conspiracy theory that it's somehow a giant scam. Even the source of the rumours that they're in trouble cannot be pinned down. For all appearances, USF1 are further ahead than anyone else.

Sorry, slideways, but I think these facts you're talking about either don't exist or are simply your opinions presented as such. You plainly don't want to see USF1 on the grid for whatever reason and are trying to convince yourself that your suspicions have some subsance in reality.

Well put!

USF1 was also the first team to put down the deposit with Cosworth for engine supply. There are not really any hard facts, that I know of, that should place USF1 in a worse situation than the other teams. If any, there are more doubts regarding the mystic Quadbak group.

There are more rumours about USF1 but that's a very different story.

These are the facts you stated as facts as to why USF1 wont show up in 2010 in an earlier post on this topic:

No jokes, I had dream the other night that USF1 did NOT make it to the grid!

(how sad... would prefer a dream about Nicole Schz-whatever instead!)

It is not just his journalism that puts me off, I have come across him 3 times at car launches and each time he was pissed out of his skull, it was all "me me me", I know people that have associated with Windsor and he is the most self important egotistical prick going according to them, I have been at FOS before and Windsor walking down the red carpet to the drivers club was like a Hollywood star walking down the red carpet to a film premiere the way he was prancing, that is on top of my dislike for him for calling Jacques Villeneuve a murderer in F1Racing

Sure he has an amazing lifestyle he has beautiful girls on tap, goes to all the races, millions in the bank but he acts all the time like he is some global star which will get even worse if USF1 make the grid

I want Anderson to sack Windsor or for USF1 to fail so that Windsor's ego is bought down a peg or 3