Muzzinho
Jan 22 2010, 12:35
Double post Edit
USF1?
Will they make it?
potmotr
Jan 22 2010, 12:40
QUOTE (MegaManson @ Jan 22 2010, 12:32)

But James Allen who is probably F1#s top written journo and certainly the best IMHO phoned the FIA the morning after the Italian story and he was told that the 4 races thing was wrong and further research from Allen showed that USF1 had booked several hotel rooms in Bahrain so its effectively
Allen v Noble
FIA v FOM
Windsor v Ecclestone
I think Allen called the wrong person.
From the Autosport story is appears USF1 called Ecclestone to try and have the four race delay.
After all, the financial penalty levied on the teams if they miss races comes from the commercial rights holder, not the FIA.
From what I understand teams can miss races, and they have before.
But no one does because the financial kick in the arse and loss of earnings is too great.
So Allen was right in calling the FIA, but Windsor's appeal had actually gone to Ecclestone.
MegaManson
Jan 22 2010, 12:48
QUOTE (potmotr @ Jan 22 2010, 12:40)

I think Allen called the wrong person.
From the Autosport story is appears USF1 called Ecclestone to try and have the four race delay.
After all, the financial penalty levied on the teams if they miss races comes from the commercial rights holder, not the FIA.
From what I understand teams can miss races, and they have before.
But no one does because the financial kick in the arse and loss of earnings is too great.
So Allen was right in calling the FIA, but Windsor's appeal had actually gone to Ecclestone.
Yeah good point there about the money being Bernie's area
If that is the case hope Bernie told them that StefanGP will take over their grid slot if they don't turn up in Bahrain, USF1 have had more than enough time to be ready
QUOTE (MegaManson @ Jan 22 2010, 13:48)

Yeah good point there about the money being Bernie's area
If that is the case hope Bernie told them that StefanGP will take over their grid slot if they don't turn up in Bahrain, USF1 have had more than enough time to be ready
If the story is true I'm sure both Bernie and FIA would need to be "in the loop".
Bernie because of FOM, commercial issues and freight money etc.
FIA because they are the organizers of F1 and the teams have signed the Concorde. FIA regs stipulate that the teams agree to participate at all events (races).
Bernie can't tell them that Stefan GP would get a their slot, because that's up to the FIA to decide.
Again, if the story is true, the team could have made inquiries with Bernie and he turned them down. USF1 would then have no reason to take it further to the FIA.
So, both Bernie and FIA can tell the truth even though they say the opposite of each other (Bernie can say that FOM was approached and the FIA can say that the FIA has not been approached).
However the team denies it and we have only unofficial (anonymous) sources claiming USF1 requested to skip the first four races. So at this point in time it's just guessing and we might not know the truth until some time down the road.
With the way things sound, as a precaution the FIA should bring back the 107% rule or something like it. I cant imagine any of these new teams not making it to the first race because the cost of not attending is simply huge. However, I could imagine them bringing a car that has the appearance of a F1 car, but with the perform of a tintop. Being slow is one thing (and expected for a new team), but showing up with whatever you can make in the last hour will be a joke.
Lazarus II
Jan 22 2010, 13:57
QUOTE (potmotr @ Jan 22 2010, 07:23)

"Sources close to" is also standard practice when someone wants to go off the record.
You can report this, but don't quote me.
I really don't think Autosport would go around making stuff up. It isn't that kind of publication.
In fact, Jonathan Noble has (on more than one occassion) said that he is chasing a story but can't firm it up.
At least he is honest enough to say that. Others just report it and are wrong. Autosport puts huge weight on being accurate which makes it stand out from the crowd.
I think we can take that quote as being genuine.
So Bernie doesn't want to go on the record with something? the same Bernie who said
on the record that "Hitler got things done" and yet was
NOT crucified by the press, nor was he asked to step down from his position (where as if that was you or I we'd lose our post as the Chairman of the Outer Mongolian Swim Team and be crucified by every newspaper/blog and civic group), you mean that Bernie didn't want to go on the record?
EVERY journo makes shit up, it's their job. Just like every TV commentator has to say stupid shit every once in a while; they're paid to keep talking for 2+hrs straight - don't have dead time. No one can talk for 2hrs straight and not say something stupid....some people can't do it for 2min, much less 2hrs, but their called politicians.
potmotr
Jan 22 2010, 14:36
QUOTE (Lazarus II @ Jan 22 2010, 13:57)

So Bernie doesn't want to go on the record with something? the same Bernie who said on the record that "Hitler got things done" and yet was NOT crucified by the press, nor was he asked to step down from his position (where as if that was you or I we'd lose our post as the Chairman of the Outer Mongolian Swim Team and be crucified by every newspaper/blog and civic group), you mean that Bernie didn't want to go on the record?
He could be trying to apply pressure without doing it overtly.
Bernie is no idiot.
And no, I really don't think Autosport would go and makes things up like that.
We'll probably never know the truth; but since the late-start rumor, the switch to Barber and the preliminary nose crash test all occurred at the same time, I'm guessing that they needed to pass the crash test to meet their already tight schedule. Building a new nose and testing it takes time, but more importantly, it's probably pretty difficult to get a test slot on short notice.
My bet is that they asked Bernie for the time; Bernie said sure, but no $10 million; and so they've decided to forgo another preliminary test and hope for the best with their official test with the tub.
Anyway, I fixed their logo for them. You're welcome, Mr. Windsor.*

©
*actually, you're not. I don't work for free, you know.
Buttoneer
Jan 22 2010, 14:59
QUOTE (Muzzinho @ Jan 22 2010, 12:25)

Asking the FIA if you can start four races late, What are they thinking.....
They had this idea before the start of 2009 and are struggling to get a car ready, while Lotus found out they were included in September and are having no problems.
Either they turn up in Bahrain or Stefan GP gets the slot. Thats what Bernie should be telling them.
A lot of the timetable squeeze is not the fault of the new teams - blame the FIA for that. It was always going to be very tight and I would certainly be unsurprised if one or more of the teams found Sakhir a very difficult deadline to meet.
Bouncing Pink Ball
Jan 22 2010, 15:08
If Windsor is flat out lying about a delay request, you have to think Bernie would speak up. He's hardly shy and not one to hold his tongue when he feels like having a go.
I wouldn't be surprised if some talk happened about maybe starting late but it didn't advance to anything serious once the financial penalty was made clear. In other words, I doubt any new team filed an official request with the FIA, but there might have been casual talk, feeling out the idea, shot down immediately by good old pal Bernie.
The more I think about it, someone like Windsor making an off the cuff inquiry about missing a race or two might make Bernie mad enough to openly question the team, make statements about not everyone being ready, stringing along StefanGp,...you know, the very things he's been up to. I wonder if he's had casual conversations with Campos about finances? It's never a good idea to cross Bernie, even innocently.
MegaManson
Jan 22 2010, 15:20
QUOTE (Bouncing Pink Ball @ Jan 22 2010, 15:08)

If Windsor is flat out lying about a delay request, you have to think Bernie would speak up. He's hardly shy and not one to hold his tongue when he feels like having a go.
I wouldn't be surprised if some talk happened about maybe starting late but it didn't advance to anything serious once the financial penalty was made clear. In other words, I doubt any new team filed an official request with the FIA, but there might have been casual talk, feeling out the idea, shot down immediately by good old pal Bernie.
The more I think about it, someone like Windsor making an off the cuff inquiry about missing a race or two might make Bernie mad enough to openly question the team, make statements about not everyone being ready, stringing along StefanGp,...you know, the very things he's been up to. I wonder if he's had casual conversations with Campos about finances? It's never a good idea to cross Bernie, even innocently.
As Windsor knows personally, I remember that incident where he tried to screw over Bernie over the sale of the Brabham team and Bernie had Windsor bundled into a van and given a good beating
USF1 can do Arrows and go to Shakir and roll out the chassis, but run practice, Not run more than one lap in Q1, Not run Race and the weekend is done... Is this still possible? I kinda remember there was a rule change...??
Rinehart
Jan 22 2010, 15:34
QUOTE (Slowinfastout @ Jan 21 2010, 22:47)

I have now convinced myself, and myself only (

), that Ecclestone has a beef with USF1... and let's face it, anyone looking to invest millions into this venture, be it drivers or sponsors, would try to go to the bottom of such a hunch..
Or perhaps its not so much that Bernie has any beef with USF1, but that he really wants Stefan GP on the grid...
Rinehart
Jan 22 2010, 15:41
QUOTE (ch103 @ Jan 22 2010, 00:50)

Wait and see.
Its just far too perfect that they wish to replicate Brawn's against all odds story from last season and now the media and Bernie are acting their part out.
The way the outsourcing of the car worked, both Chip Ginassi Racing and Penske Racing, contributed to the car.
Essentially the USF1 guys took a car the two best american teams built and refined it.
Three teams in one.
I'm almost ready to say that USF1 will win a race this season, the more I think about it.
So would a combination of 4 prestigious non-F1 participating organisations, say Aston Martin, Bentley, Lamborgini and Zonda produce an even more amazing car, positively guaranteed to win, in your world?
And what about the peddlers? Did I miss the news that Lopez the love child of Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost?!
Rinehart
Jan 22 2010, 15:45
QUOTE (Muzzinho @ Jan 22 2010, 12:25)

Asking the FIA if you can start four races late, What are they thinking.....
Perhaps the reason why Bernie has told USF1 they can't start 4 races late is that if they do, they will break the concorde agreement and allow the FIA to them to kick out USF1 in place of Stefan GP...
WebBerK
Jan 22 2010, 15:47
JA is supporting Bob Varsha, the USF1 mole.
What does Varsha is doing there?
He seems to be there very day.
And Peter Windsor is/was a very influent journalist.
So I think they are biased on this.
Furthermore we should split what FIA and Bernie thinks.
Slowinfastout
Jan 22 2010, 15:48
QUOTE (Rinehart @ Jan 22 2010, 10:34)

Or perhaps its not so much that Bernie has any beef with USF1, but that he really wants Stefan GP on the grid...
Well, yes.. but why?
My opinion is that he simply doesn't want
this USF1 american team to be
the american team.. hardcore fans might appreciate a very humble outfit but it might send a strange message to the massive market and general audience Bernie is looking after... looking at it that way, going racing with this grandiose USF1 name, Pechito Lopez and Peter Windsor just sends a confused message..
StefanGP would simply be convenient scabs, and Bernie could almost pretend they are a legitimate alternative, as long as they are alive and kicking, so he wouldn't look like he's undermining USF1.
edit: IMO the 'USF1 wants to skip races' thing is a Bernie lie.... USF1 is trying to finalize agreements and stuff, and a big doubt being subtly cast straight out of Bernie's office might just cause enough harm to the team so that eventual partners become hesitant and start wondering if they are effectively paying to join F1 against Ecclestone wishes.. or paying and hoping Ecclestone is the liar instead of Windsor..
Lazarus II
Jan 22 2010, 15:49
QUOTE (Rinehart @ Jan 22 2010, 10:41)

Did I miss the news that Lopez the love child of Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost?!
Which one had/has the ovaries?
pingu666
Jan 22 2010, 16:45
QUOTE (One @ Jan 22 2010, 15:26)

USF1 can do Arrows and go to Shakir and roll out the chassis, but run practice, Not run more than one lap in Q1, Not run Race and the weekend is done... Is this still possible? I kinda remember there was a rule change...??
they could start the race and then retire with some issue, i belive you haveto have something wrong to retire now, but they could engineer that...
bonneville
Jan 22 2010, 17:06
QUOTE (pup @ Jan 22 2010, 14:59)

Anyway, I fixed their logo for them. You're welcome, Mr. Windsor.*

©
*actually, you're not. I don't work for free, you know.
So much better than the original.
The USA / USf1 subliminal confusion is put at better use than in their original design.
Lazarus II
Jan 22 2010, 19:27
QUOTE (pup @ Jan 22 2010, 09:59)

We'll probably never know the truth; but since the late-start rumor, the switch to Barber and the preliminary nose crash test all occurred at the same time, I'm guessing that they needed to pass the crash test to meet their already tight schedule. Building a new nose and testing it takes time, but more importantly, it's probably pretty difficult to get a test slot on short notice.
My bet is that they asked Bernie for the time; Bernie said sure, but no $10 million; and so they've decided to forgo another preliminary test and hope for the best with their official test with the tub.
Anyway, I fixed their logo for them. You're welcome, Mr. Windsor.*

©
*actually, you're not. I don't work for free, you know.
Very nice work
farruquito
Jan 22 2010, 20:37
According to MARCA, José María 'Pechito' López is confirmed as USF1 driver (
Link)
senna da silva
Jan 22 2010, 21:51
QUOTE (Lazarus II @ Jan 22 2010, 16:49)

Which one had/has the ovaries?
That would be Prost. He always was a whiny b!tch.
monza2001
Jan 22 2010, 22:26
QUOTE (farruquito @ Jan 22 2010, 21:37)

According to MARCA, José María 'Pechito' López is confirmed as USF1 driver (
Link)
Marca is not a reliable source, but anyways Lopez will sign with USF1.
farruquito
Jan 22 2010, 23:18
QUOTE (monza2001 @ Jan 22 2010, 23:26)

Marca is not a reliable source, but anyways Lopez will sign with USF1.
Related to F1, MARCA
IS a reliable source. They reported Alguersuari debut with Toro Rosso and Fisichella move to Force India before any other website, for example.
Furthermore, there are more sites reporting the same news:
Reuters Latin AmericaLT10 (Argentinian news site)Corsa (Argentinian news site)TN (Argentinian news Site)...
Official announcement is expected this monday. Pechito has received financial support from Argentinian government and companies from that country.
showtime
Jan 22 2010, 23:32
They also reported De La Rosa signing for Campos
marca is as reliable as bild. some stories they get right but most of the times you wait for autosport.com to confirm the shit.
monza2001
Jan 22 2010, 23:44
QUOTE (farruquito @ Jan 23 2010, 00:18)

:lol:Related to F1, MARCA
IS a reliable source . They reported Alguersuari debut with Toro Rosso and Fisichella move to Force India before any other website, for example.
Furthermore, there are more sites reporting the same news:
Reuters Latin AmericaLT10 (Argentinian news site)Corsa (Argentinian news site)TN (Argentinian news Site)...
Official announcement is expected this monday. Pechito has received financial support from Argentinian government and companies from that country.

Marca is only reliable when talks about Real Madrid.
rmac923
Jan 23 2010, 01:00
Just a little tidbit.
I'm watching the Barrett-Jackson Car Auction on Speed in the US. Bob Varsha (who's hosting) did a plug for the Bahrain GP. He mentioned USF1 and insisted that there is in fact a car built and that we'll be seeing it very soon. (Monday with Lopez Announcement?)
Lazarus II
Jan 23 2010, 01:22
Well another (worst kept)
secret is out
Reuters UK announced that Jose Maria Lopez was confirmed as a driver for the new Formula One team USF1 on Friday.
Is it just me or is every so-called secret in F1 known for a couple months prior to the "official announcement"?
TheF1PERSON
Jan 23 2010, 01:23
Congratulations to USF1 one for signing a driver and building a car.
Now they've got to do it all over again.
Lazarus II
Jan 23 2010, 01:27
QUOTE (TheF1PERSON @ Jan 22 2010, 20:23)

Congratulations to USF1 one for signing a driver and building a car.
Now they've got to do it all over again.

I'm sure that's news to them
I don't care what team it is, 15M Euro would be
very hard to turn down in this economy - I can honestly say, I could
not do it. Money money money moneeeeh......moneeeeh.
from usf1 facebook
"Thank you all for your patience. The team is working very hard these days and we will have some exciting news to share! (think early next week...)"
now who will they sign as second driver. they better not get another rookie with no f1 experience.
QUOTE (BiH @ Jan 22 2010, 21:18)

now who will they sign as second driver. they better not get another rookie with no f1 experience.
I'd like to see them sign Heidfeld.
Edit:
Read the reports that he's going to sign as the 3rd driver for Merc this morning, oh well.
rmac923
Jan 23 2010, 02:54
QUOTE (Dulok @ Jan 22 2010, 21:43)

I'd like to see them sign Heidfeld.
I've "heard", he's signed as Merc's reserve driver.
According to Lopez's manager, the 2nd driver is likely a Brit.
I don't know who has $5 Million to spend to drive a car that will be mid-pack at best. Which is why the James Rossiter rumors seem strange as I can't see him having that kind of sponsor money. Davidson says he's doesn't have the money. No clue about Carroll.
The only (non-McLaren) British driver who
MIGHT have that money is Coulthard. That seems so unlikely though...
Unless I'm forgetting someone.
IFRLIceman
Jan 23 2010, 04:54
QUOTE (rmac923 @ Jan 22 2010, 20:54)

I've "heard", he's signed as Merc's reserve driver.
According to Lopez's manager, the 2nd driver is likely a Brit.
I don't know who has $5 Million to spend to drive a car that will be mid-pack at best. Which is why the James Rossiter rumors seem strange as I can't see him having that kind of sponsor money. Davidson says he's doesn't have the money. No clue about Carroll.
The only (non-McLaren) British driver who MIGHT have that money is Coulthard. That seems so unlikely though...
Unless I'm forgetting someone.
You are; James Rossiter. I've already seen people saying he's going to get the seat.
WebBerK
Jan 23 2010, 05:20
J Lo was confirmed as a USF1 paydriver... u-ha
Next step...
get a SuperLicense.
Slowinfastout
Jan 23 2010, 05:52
I've heard Conan O'Brien is available... He's clearly talented and rich.. I didn't knew he could play guitar, maybe he can drive too?
I say Conan for the 2nd USF1 seat!
Lazarus II
Jan 23 2010, 05:53
QUOTE (WebBerK @ Jan 23 2010, 00:20)

J Lo was confirmed as a USF1 paydriver... u-ha
Next step...
get a SuperLicense.
Yep, there is no way F1 would sell its integrity just for a few dollars
BTW the kid has plenty of Renault test km's. No idea if he's any good, but he's far from thr first pay driver in F1; and he won't be the last either. What do you think they run Schumachers car on fairy-dust and butterflies? someone's paying and most of the time it's not the driver but a bank like Santander or some other financier. But don't let the facs get in the way of your agenda...continue.
QUOTE (Slowinfastout @ Jan 23 2010, 06:52)

I've heard Conan O'Brien is available... He's clearly talented and rich.. I didn't knew he could play guitar, maybe he can drive too?
I say Conan for the 2nd USF1 seat!

farruquito
Jan 23 2010, 09:43
QUOTE (Nuvol @ Jan 23 2010, 00:34)

marca is as reliable as bild. some stories they get right but most of the times you wait for autosport.com to confirm the shit.
Every media fails sometimes. Autosport failed reporting Mclaren would be banned from F1 when the spygate happened. Anyway, we know Autosport has more reliability than every other site, but after that, I think MARCA usually says the truth about 90% of the times. I think that can be considered reliable IMO.
QUOTE (WebBerK @ Jan 23 2010, 05:20)

J Lo was confirmed as a USF1 paydriver... u-ha
Next step...
get a SuperLicense.
On what basis will he get it? For testing with Renault yonks ago?
Muzzinho
Jan 23 2010, 10:23
QUOTE (dank @ Jan 23 2010, 11:11)

On what basis will he get it? For testing with Renault yonks ago?
Special Dispensation from the FiA. the only cause he qualifies under.
QUOTE (farruquito @ Jan 23 2010, 10:43)

Every media fails sometimes. Autosport failed reporting Mclaren would be banned from F1 when the spygate happened. Anyway, we know Autosport has more reliability than every other site, but after that, I think MARCA usually says the truth about 90% of the times. I think that can be considered reliable IMO.
It's on Autosport as well now:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81032
First they won't make it, then they don't have uniform, then the engineers are bad actors, then Varsha is doing it as a favor to Windsor............blah blah blah................blah blah blah............then they don't have a janitor, then they wear the wrong socks, then the blog is a sleeper..............blah blah blah............
As if pay drivers is a shock to everyone now !!! Like really!!??
QUOTE (Muzzinho @ Jan 23 2010, 11:23)

Special Dispensation from the FiA. the only cause he qualifies under.
According to the FIA regs he has to qualify for a superlicense by one of the following criterias:
QUOTE
f) be judged by the FIA to have consistently demonstrated
outstanding ability in single-seater formula cars, but with
no opportunity to qualify under any of c) to e) above. In this
case the F1 team concerned must show that the applicant
has driven at least 300 km in a current Formula One car
consistently at racing speeds, over a maximum period of 2
days, completed not more than 90 days prior to the application
and certifi ed by the ASN of the country in which the test took
place.
By exception, if supported by the Safety Commission, the
FIA World Motor Sport Council may approve the issue of the
Super Licence to persons judged by the Council to have met
the intent of the qualification process.
So, first of all is the requirement to have shown outstanding ability in single seater cars (there is no requirement that it has to be within the last years). Lopez has been a F1 test driver and raced in Formula 3000 and GP2 so maybe that's enough to satisfy the FIA regs in that regard? He has also done quite a bit of testing these last months and maybe he has demonstrated his driving skills at those tests? (there apparently is no requirement that the single seater abilities have had to be demonstrated during races...).
If the above is considered enough, then what's remaining is the 300km of F1 testing over the 2 day period. Which can only mean that USF1 have to do at least 300km of testing. Which again should indicate that's what they are planning to do, or?
screamingV16
Jan 23 2010, 14:21
Wasn't it rumoured by Lopez that he will be officially confirmed and the car shown on 25 January, that's this monday coming. I assume they will also outline their testing schedule at the same time?
TheF1PERSON
Jan 23 2010, 14:36
I've realised though, that this is the first time Peter Windsor has run an F1 team.
All the stories about how pay-drivers are bad and all those pre-season promises came with nothing on the side of team management. Over the past year, I think Peter Windsor has realised the harsh reality of it, which is why he is going back on his promises, but is still determined to keep the team running.
domhnall
Jan 23 2010, 14:45
Racecar engineering on twitter:
we are hearing that the USF1 Type 1 will roll out / fire up on Monday - bit sketchy though
QUOTE (TheF1PERSON @ Jan 23 2010, 15:36)

I've realised though, that this is the first time Peter Windsor has run an F1 team.
All the stories about how pay-drivers are bad and all those pre-season promises came with nothing on the side of team management. Over the past year, I think Peter Windsor has realised the harsh reality of it, which is why he is going back on his promises, but is still determined to keep the team running.
Even Sauber have two pay drivers (Kobayashi and De la Rosa), so reality has set in for other established teams as well.
James Allen:
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/QUOTE
Sauber is definitely torn; he has approached the experienced drivers, including Jarno Trulli, asking if there is a sponsorship angle, but there was no sponsorship avenue to be pursued with Trulli. De la Rosa has traditionally had some Repsol money and there is no longer a clash with Petronas. Fisichella is well known to the team, if his name is in the frame, one would imagine that perhaps Ferrari has offered Sauber a discount on his £6 million engine bill. Ferrari may well be thinking that it would be advantageous to have Fisichella racing this year as a back up, just in case there turns out to be anything wrong with Felipe Massa, who is returning from injury. This would be worth something to Ferrari, not the full €6 million, but maybe 25% of it.
QUOTE
Sauber has been looking to hit the right balance between a driver with some money and one who can bring real racing benefits to the team. De la Rosa did not have the largest backing of the potentials out there nor is he the fastest of the options Sauber had. He has around €1 million budget from Universia, which is a foundation set up by Banco Santander. Sauber has clearly hired him for his technical ability, which will help Kobayashi to fulfil his maximum potential.
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