I get the impression that some people aren't speculating on whether USF1 will or won't make it to the grid, but hoping that they won't.

The facts are these, they have a facility up and running, they've demonstrated progress in the design and manufacture process, they have a major sponsor/investor in place and they are tapping into a market which has traditionally not been fully exploited by F1.
Their success would ensure more viewers in the US market, selling more cars for Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault (do they sell cars in the States?), Toyota and more soft drink for Red Bull. It would also put further pressure on Bernie to get a race up and running in North America, in front of packed grandstands, unlike in South Korea... in front of, well the wrong kind of hot dog stands.

If USF1 were to fail, it would be a sad day for the sport, and yet I get the impression that half the people responding to this thread - who are apparently F1 fans - would be whooping for joy.
Strange, no?

You overestimate the impact USF1 will have in the states

A team run by an Englishman and driven by 2 non American drivers will not incite massive national pride and bring millions of new fans to F1, more like it will bring indifference

All it will do is maybe convert some EXISTING F1 fans to switch their support to USF1

I dont think they're looking to be an overnight success story.

Rather, I think the plan is to develop the car and the team over their first season with European drivers, at the same time as developing American talent back home. Ten, they bring the two togeter once the team is firmly established so that a talented American driver can walk into an experienced team, thus maximising their chances of success.

No...I hope they make it, for the sake of the sport,
but I'm not a fan of nationalistic teams... like USF1 profiled themselves in the first place.

If F1 is going to be like that, then all drivers from countries with no F1 team will be disadvantaged.
26 drivers should be the best of the best,
doesn't matter what their nationality is.
But I noticed in the last couple of months USF1 is changing their approach to their drivers choice about it...
and Kyle Busch... for 2011... talented and good in Nascar stuff... but F1??? I don't see anything from him that says he would be a future champion in single seaters!.. but hey .. suprise me!

I disagree with you on this. I think that it will have a positive effect on bringing in new US fans of F1, supporting their home team. It would be better if they also bring on an American driver (as reported by Autosport today re Kyle Busch as a possibility for 2011) but F1 are not only about next year. What does it matter if it takes a year or two to bring in US drivers? You don't need to do everything in the first year.

And, even though not entirely comparable, the English national football team was trained by a Swede for many years. I still think English fans supported their team. And how many locals plays on Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool etc.? It's not only about who drives the car or who heads the team. It's a US based team with a US built car.

Two points to make here.

1) Rome wasn't built in a day. I think it better to have a team with no American drivers than a team with talentless American drivers. Let them get established first and then 'Americanize' the team later.
2) How many Indian drivers are there at Force India? At least USF1 will be based in the states and not thousands of miles away. And yet, I've just come back from India and, although it hasn't immediately become a big deal over there, people at least know what F1 is now. I spoke to people right across the country - not just in the tourist areas - and none of them knew what F1 was until Force India started racing. Now F1 is televised live, opening the sport up to over a billion potential fans, the Indian Grand Prix might just be a well supported event rather than just yet another example of folly, there is truly a new market unfolding over there.

Just another point for good measure. Everyone thought that Red Bull Racing was just a fad when they entered the sport, people scoffed when they said that, not only did they have aspirations of being world champions, but that they wanted a 'Red Bull' driver to do it for them. Now look how close that has come to being a reality.

If F1 were to just close its eyes to new opportunities then it's only a matter of time until it dies.

USF1 will fail to make the grid because there American and rubbish, and I'm basing my arguement entirly on those two points.

I'd be interested to hear your opinion of Force India in that case. There is no rush to put an Indian driver in the team there, unless, as you say, they find a homegrown driver who genuinely deserves their place within the team.
Mercedes has aspirations of putting Rosberg in a Brawn because of his German-ness, but few would argue that he doesn't deserve to be in a race-winning machine on merit. His nationality will merely keep the marketing men happy and keep the money flowing - surely this is no bad thing is it?

In fact, it could be argued that good American drivers have missed the opportunity to race in F1 because there isn't the ladder in place over there to get them where they need to be, to be noticed in F1. If USF1, even in some small way, makes this happen, then isn't that also a good thing?

Wow, that's your 1st post and the last post of yours I will ever read - profile, select options, block user.

Mallya has never come up with any hyperbole about Indian drivers though, Windsor did

IMHO Mallya set up the team to promote Kingfisher but the name Kingfisher F1 would have sounded shit so he chose Force India, I have never seen him make nationalistic statements about the team with regards India

He didn't actually setup the team, that makes it sound like he started from scratch. I like the sound of Kingfisher F1 more than Force India.

Your post is rubbish and I'm basing that entirely on your spelling.

Kingfisher Racing doesn't sound too bad. It could do with some work, but for me it conjures up the image of a bird sort of swooping in and sweeping across a body of water. Maye it would be more appropriate for a boat racing team ...

"Force India carries the hope of a billion and I too would love to have an Indian driver but he must be good enough.

A direct quote from Vijay Mallya - nationalistic? Yes.
Realistic, definitely.

Don't forget also that Force India carries the Indian flag right across the car. If that isn't nationalistic I don't know what is?

Let's flag down a taxi and head to real street. Windsor isn't American, so it's not some jingoistic national pride that's coming out of him, it's pure business-sense. Get potential sponsors and fans excited about a new project by using the one thing that truly sets them apart from all the other, established F1 teams that are fighting for the same sponsorship dollars - the team is American! Far more American than Force India is Indian - which is a British team with a (very brilliant) Indian owner.
What is coming across is a dislike of one individual. One minute you're saying that the Americans won't care because they have no American drivers, the next you're saying that they're being too nationalistic because they have talked about getting American drivers in the future. If they were as bad as you say they are, they would have signed Scot Speed by now!
You should just say 'I want USF1 to fail because I dislike Peter Windsor' that would be much easier, I could accept that, it would be your opinion and you're entitled to it.

I don't want them to fail and expect they will show up, just like the other new teams, but I really, really wish they'd change their all about America stance. Thankfully, they've toned it down considerably but first impressions linger.

It's the nationalistic approach the bugs me and, since it's been put out there, I feel much the same way about Force India. To their credit, thus far FI haven't shoved just any driver they could find who carries an Indian passport into their car. If that should change, and FI becomes all about favouritism toward employees of the chosen nationality, then I will begin to loath them.

The last thing I want to see is more flag waving invading popular sports. Don't we get enough of that with the Olympics and various World Championships? It's divisive, and it eventually pits the 'have' nations against the 'have nots', leaving talent from smaller countries entirely locked out. The current need to bring a home country sponsor along is beginning to do that and national teams would be the final blow.

And no, I don't care what the flag wrapped around such a team might be. I do not want to see Team Super Beavers Rah Rah Go Canada, Eh! show up on some future grid either.

Totally agree .

Lotus are heading in the same direction unfortunately, though at least without the national name. It's a very short-term advantage, to raise funding. Once "The USA" is being humiliated running at the back then the enthusiasm will drop off and good old internationalism might look a better choice.

I do not know but shouldnt they have a rolling chassis already

good rant. Whilst I agree with what you're saying completely, I do think we need some teams from outside of Europe and currently we don't have any. If the only way to achieve this in the short-term, is to call it a national team, then so be it.
I would hate it as much as you, or anyone else, if USF1 were to win some races amidst hoards of gloating Americans waving their flags... but in the immortal words of Rob Smedley 'Bouncing Pink Ball, baby stay cool' it's not gonna happen!
The flag wavers will get bored way before they're even in a position to score any points, but you will be left with a whole bunch of new people who have a reason to watch the sport.

So far I think it's the japanese manufacturers that really are being nationalistic with their past and present push for japanese drivers (at the cost of performance in many cases).

double post

egg1980, you think that was a rant? Oh, you haven't seen anything yet.

Maybe I'm not being totally clear. I don't care if fans in the stands, or those at home in front of a television, want to jump up and down with flags in their hands. Whatever works for them. It's not upsetting, in fact, I'd say it's more amusing to me than anything. Where I draw the line is when a team tries to become a representative for ultra nationalistic pride. Is there really a need to declare – and I'm picking on the new US effort since they're the topic of this thread – that one of the team's strengths is that it will be based in America, built in America by Americans, with all-new, super never seen before American methods all for the benefit of grooming American drivers? For starters, that's not going to happen. The team will mostly hire the best people they can get, regardless of nationality. They will go about business pretty much the same way all the other teams do and maybe, if there's someone ready (or with a big enough sponsor paycheck) an American will slot into one of the driver seats on occasion. It's all silly, makes a lot of folks cringe, and for what? Any sponsor or would-be fan attracted by that line won't stay around to see where the team goes in the future, as has been noted by you as well as by others. The best part is, I'm pretty sure American (and this goes for North and South America as a whole) sponsors would back a team without all the pretend nationalism.

I hope that calling a team [Country X] won't draw oodles of viewers (and, importantly from a sponsor perspective, merchandise buyers) in, because if it works more teams of that sort will start popping up, with some current squads morphing into similar as asked by sponsors or manufacturers. This kind of marketing didn't make A1GP a success, and one problem there was the same as the US team will face – apathy and limited exposure.

All that said, if it was just one team playing this act I'd shrug it off and laugh. Thing is, it's not one team. The aforementioned Lotus seems to have similar ideas, the Japanese manufactures promote home nation drivers and brainpower, there's been lots of recent talk about Ferrari becoming more and more Italian. I'm looking at USF1 and Force India, even though neither is a true national team, as symptomatic of a problem. No, actually I see them as a further push down the slippery slope of diminishing prospects for drivers, engineers and others from places less likely to pull together a national promotional effort.



Yes, they are, and that doesn't make it a fair or legitimate practise.

If kyle bush drives for USF1 in 2011 and has success, the US will take a big interest while he is there. Honestly he is their best shot at doing something with an american driver. He is young, talented and has the right attitude to win.

Absolutely, though I am a bit weary about his expectations and desire for F1. According to Autosport he said: "I think I'd still be young enough that if I could win a championship by 25, go run Formula 1 for a few years and be back (in NASCAR) by 28."

Three years in F1 and then scurry back? Wow. Just wow.

yeah - I think he's slightly underestimating the effort its going to take to be successful.

Exactly.

They have to start somewhere. It's going to take plenty of time for this team to become established.

As the team evolves and gains more notoriety in the US more young American racing drivers will become interested in F1.

You'll see young American racing drivers taking the necessary career moves to get into F1.

Well, I guess there are different views on this but I guess that national pride has always played a part in F1 in one way or the other. Lotus racing with British Racing Green colours etc. F1 teams have mostly been based in England so the national theme has on the other hand not been such a big topic (since they all were English anyway). And haven't the English allways been quite proud of how most of the teams and suppliers are UK based? Ferrari used to be much more Italian before the Jean Todt and Michael Schumacher era. That was part of the charisma and lot's of people didn't like the lack of passion that the new era brought (it did bring results though). Maybe we now are seing a Ferrari team that wants to get more back to it's roots?

The USF1 is not the official team of the US either, it's just a team based in the states that wants to showcase US engineering and manufacturing skills etc. That's not different to Sauber being based in Switzerland and they where also quite outspoken about how they wanted to show that they could do it outside of the UK, as was Toyota. Maybe it's just the name that's the difference? F1 is a big marketing excersize as well as a sport. What better arena to showcase your product (be it Toyota, Renault or US engineering and manufacturing skills).

And national teams seem to work well in Football, Olympics etc. So, why should it be bad in F1?

I'm not saying that a national team is better, just that I can't see a problem with it.

Most F1 tech still comes from England.

In 2009, one-nation technology is short-sighted and simply a bad idea. Even NASCAR relies on foreign technology.

People who are picking on USF1's chances for next year are just anti-American Europeans who think that everything American is inferior.

USF1 is well-prepared to race in 2010. They have everything in place.

Europeans can now go pick on Manor and Campos.

I read that the 2006 Chevy Nascar block was cast in the same foundry in Northampton as the 2006 Cosworth F1 engine.

Well, it mostly is.

I can't speak for the rest of the board, but I for one am laying down some money on a USF1 car finishing in the points first race out. The odds will be irresistible.

There is a ladder in open wheel there just isn't any money or incentive for the current crop of young drivers to chase it. There are a few that are attempting but most go to circle track because that's where they get funded. Add the prejudice against US based racers in F1 circles and it's not worth the hassle and grief for a minimal or short term payoff. If any.

RE: technology and parts availability in the US...
While the design of F1 hardware comes from across the pond all the manufacturing processes and materials available to F1 teams are available in the US. Contrast that to the proprietary proprietary facilities that aren't available commercially overseas. Composites, testing environments, design equipment and anything else is readily available anyone with the means that is racing. That's one of the main differences between the US racing business and the rest of the world is that there is a participatory racing culture where more people race automobiles in the US than the rest of the world combined. That has spawned the racing services industry that USF1 is leveraging. In the Indianapolis and Charlotte areas alone there several hundred professional level race teams and thousands of other smaller/hobbyist/weekend warrior types across the country. In terms of racing that is perhaps the biggest difference between the US and the rest of the world.

based on what do you post such ----?
You have no real idea about were each team is do you.
But you are ready to do a ferrari on them
what a class act not!!

I'm not sure that I agree with this view completely... but part of me does.

I expect the team will be as fit as all the other newcomers, I just don't agree with their pr methods, so I have to ask, Am I being included in this? If so, why would I hate the US? I have family there, I've spent loads of time there, lived there...no hate.

Just saying, since I can vouch for at least one poster (me) who isn't consumed with rabid American bashing on this topic.

I agree with all of Bouncing Pink Ball posts. Also, I can't abide Peter Windsor.

Not least because of his sanctimonious moralising about a marketing exercise.

I see they still have aspirations of putting an American in the car. Seems rather strange to be announcing who you want in the car in year 2, before year 1 has even started. Doesn't make USF1 an attractive career opportunity for a driver.

The odds will be long, but terrible value .

The signs are the drivers would struggle to be in the points in a Mac or Ferrari, never mind a totally new car designed in the abstract.

Good luck though.

Rather than embarrass an American driver straight out of the box, I think the idea is to create a young driver program Stateside, designed to help them get a superlicence at the same time as having them get to know people with the team. Meanwhile, USF1 itself competes in the championship, establishing itself within the world or Formula One. After the first year, when everything has been sorted and everyone knows what they are doing, they then bring the two together: put a talented American driver in an established American team. It maximises their chances of success.

Here's what I thought would happen.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79660

Will be interesting to see who they get to sign up for the first year only then.

I hope they do caus honestly i cant really see any bad things about americans in formula one (unless they try to take it over!)

Hell maybe we will get lucky and it'll take off to some degree in america thus increasing the possibility of the american car companys getting involved! (but somehow i highly doubt this)

ah well ... just think of the straight line speed on american cars! lol

Its a shame that the USF1 is the works Ford or Chevy manufacturer. It would be so much cooler than the present team.

I also feel that should USF1 ever finish second in the WDC, that they omit using the #3. Since it belongs to Dale.

Kyle Busch doesnt cut the mustard. He wont be able to jump into an F1 car and be competive like he imagines. Hes too big, He'll have to cut down on the M&M's. All this in three years, ah ok Kyle. America needs a young driver program to europe before they can have a guy capable of F1. The guy they need is about 10 or 11 years old right now.

Shruby's not going to F1 regardless of what he says. He won't want to take the cut in pay. Right now he's likely in the 10mil/year plus club and were he to win a championship in the meantime it's conceivable that he could be in the elite 20mil/yr club. (all with endorsements, of course) No way USF1 would pay that for someone that's never driven formula style cars. I'd say he's leveraging the comment to prod Cup owners when his contract is up and USF1 is using it for publicity.

What other team has their 2010 car rolling?

They said they have one by November, and there's still a week of October to go. Even if they fail to meet their own self-imposed deadline, they'll still be light years ahead of the (new) competition.

A-ha...
Kyle Bush will master the new F1 in 8 testing days and in circuits he never raced before ?

I don't know much about Kyle Busch, but I know that one Kimi Raikkonen didn't do too many auto races before F1. He only competed in 23 auto races (apart from Gokart) before getting a job in F1. 3 Formula Ford races and 20 Formula Renault races. So it's not impossible to come in without too much experience if you got the talent.