Where are you getting th emoney from? I am sure they'd love Hamilton or Schumi ..... $$$$$

More a case of USF1 hasn't released any schedule info so everyone and their Mother is speculating.

Congrats to P-Lo, I look forward to the next announcement.

Haha, this thread made me sign up to the forum. Absolute quality thread, been following it from the start.

USF1 are such a curious case. Announced nearly a year ago now, they appear to be the most behind of all of the new teams. Yet Lotus was announced very late and seem to be the favourites to take the new-team honours. Rumours much?

If they want someone who has been driving in TC2000 for the past few leading their team, they are not investing in him for his skill, technical ability, so called experience and leadership. It has to be the money. After all, it's a championship in which Norberto Fontana has been champion. And who will be their "second" driver? Somebody even less known than Lopez?

As for the team, who are they? Who are the personnel? Ken's son as head of design, really? A bunch of people coming from spec series such as Indycars? What experience to they draw upon to build and design their own car? Lopez can't develop the car either, his Renault testing is now absolutely void: thoroughly out of date given slick tyres and aerodynamic changes that next year, should make sure even the top drivers will take at least the first race or two to get used to. Who will mentor him to drive better if he isn't up to scratch? Who will even mentor the team to mentor him to drive better?

Then there is the risk. Undoubtedly Ken has used his connections such that he can get his pieces from his suppliers, but can they supply F1-grade material that will last a race distance? What about the gearbox they are designing themselves that must last six races? And people think that the Cosworth power unit will be an uncertainty, to them it is the least of their increasingly large list of worries. I think we could see them with fundamental reliability issues, as well as aerodynamic issues with the no wind tunnel time, costing money they probably don't have as will undoubtedly be confirmed by their second driver announcement.

The question is not if they will make it to 2010. I'm sure they will. Whether they will last after the first race is another question though. All of the ingredients are there, as are the parallels, with MasterCard Lola 1997. Not to say it's a certainty they will do so embarrassingly awfully, but the possibility given the immense risks involved means it's a lot higher than for anyone else. If the car lasts the race at all, I will bow down to them. I hope they make it though because otherwise, it would be cringeworthy. It's either one or the other really, then again, it could be said for most of the newbies really.

I'm flattered to hear that really. And I think 'in general' that's true (probably even more so with people who come to America), but unfortuneatly we've a massive drug problem here that is deluding that credo. Sad really. I have no eveidence that the drug problem is worse now then when I was a kid, but the meth problem in my area (North Texas) is astoundingly bad; breeding like rabbits and caring for the child worse than a rabbit would.


You mean Ms. President MILF

OK - Back to F1

I am pretty much assuming that the team is just working flat out, with o without the sever management on planning, meaning... make it or not is hugely dependent on how many nights they are NOT sleeping rather than how the planning was well made...

You mean the President of Argentina?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristina_Fern...dez_de_Kirchner



He's not the first open wheeler guy to struggle in Nascar though.

Just look at Sam Hornish Jnr and AJ Almendinger.

Well their goal this year is to race, not win, but if that happens all the better.

Who cares what tires Lopez last used, it is about your ability to talk to the engineers and give them feedback on what wheel you feel slipping with your "seat of your pants to be nice". I am sure he can tell understeer from oversteer, can feel an aero change, notice that if he holds his hands up in the air the rpms drop. In karting for example on the superspeedways you could start putting your fingers up one-by-one and see the rpm drop with each. It is not like he is going to tell them the upper a-arm needs to be a different shape, or the wing should use a different profile. Only a handful of drivers in history were that good, and they either designed cars (Bruce) or studied with the engineers to the point they were that good. (Schumacher for example, Senna, etc)

If your driver tells you that the car is lacking grip, but never clarifies where in the corner it is lacking grip then we have issues (Bourdais just yelling that the car is horrible is a good example, engineer says where, he says no grip anywhere - well what good does that do?)

scott speed has had a couple of pole positions i think, in cup

Stuff like this is what worrying me.. without much testing, if any, the potential for disaster is enormous... and if there is some issue you'll have half the people wanting the FIA to award them dispensations left and right because, well.. just because.. and the other half will want them to get the f*ck off F1, and the internets..

The fact the team hasn't officially annonced when they'll test the car at this point is very bad... it's starting to look like CompositeKen was legit, hehe, and was really made to feel at home on the forum by one of the crowds above..

He did well in ARCA, but he hasn't transfered that to the Sprint Cup yet.

Why would Scott Speed risk his career on this thing... he's not doing super well in Nascar but that's nothing compared to how he would look in a USF1 car... potentially.

Couldn't be any worse than his time at STR? His career in single seaters died when he was dumped by STR. I don't think the F1 paddock was entirely in love with him either.

Oh, IMO it could be MUCH worse.. for him anyway.

love is optional... and STR aren't exactly a shining beacon when it comes to driver management.. stupid decisions seems to be the norm actually.

sorry but sitting here watching and listening it seams more and more like USF1 right now will just be happy to get to the grid come the first race.
And who is not to say thats not a good thing (granted terrible for most but they are doing it the hard way)
I still think their biggest problem was trying to do it their way before they even knew what the other way was!!!
Time is short and no matter how you cut it with their testing starting so close to the start of the season if they find something wrong and they go to their manufactuer saying we need to have this bit made our designers worked all weekend on improving, whats the chance the builders will turn round and say sorry all our autoclaves/milling machines/whatever are booked out for the next two weeks?
with USF1's model that is all it takes...

New videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NX3tDw4qMI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPhBsHGihSA

You have a point, but according to Racecar Engineering USF1 have all the necessary equipment to build the entire car in-house but have outsorced (possibly to speed up manufacturing as the team probably have less capacity than say Williams etc). So I guess with USF1's model they will have the flexibility to manufacture necessary parts themselves with their own capacity and outsource during the winter for larger quantities.

While I do understand that people question their way of doing things, it's strange to read all the comments about how bad the car is going to be. So far we don't really know anything about the other 2010 cars either and some of the new teams might surprise all of us. I wouldn't dare to say that the Type 1 is going to be the best car of the 4 new teams because I just don't have any information to judge any of the 4 cars or compare them. How people can be so sure that it's going to be the flop of the decade beats me

new video is up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NX3tDw4qMI

not much new info in it, as it is common to all teams..but more shots of the tub

Only the first is new. More of the car shown this time and we can see the engine and gearbox attached to the tub. Wonder how long ago this was recorded.

Off topic: It seems like Campos might skip all pre season testing and consider Bahrain as a test rather than a race.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/2010-...151006818_x.htm

Of course. You make valid points. But their goal should be to be competent in the case of racing, not just to be a new Forti Ford.

He's made it pretty clear in interviews that he's not interested in F1 and didn't really enjoy the atmosphere. Even with massive funding and facilities Red Bull hasn't been that good in Cup. Certainly not a Gibbs, Hendrick or Roush. He's done pretty well in Nationwide (in rented cars) and regardless of what some with an inflated sense of worth about F1 have said the Cup cars can be challenging to drive. Usually takes about three full seasons to get a handle on it.

As for the poster wondering if the materials in Charlotte were of the quality for F1, well, they are the same materials and engineering methods used in modern aerospace. I'd reckon if it's good enough to orbit the earth it's going to be good enough to drive a couple hundred miles every other Sunday. It's not the materials, it's what they do with them. Building an F1 car really isn't that difficult. The tough part is building a championship F1 car.

I think that with all the romance and hype surrounding the F1 world, somehow there is a perception that it requires a magic blend of circumstances to build a F1 car (factory in Europe preferrably England, manufacturing in-house etc being one of the many prerequisites it seems that is deemed necessarry...). It's not more complicated to build a F1 car than it is to build a IndyCar or other similar open wheel cars. Where it gets complicated (I would think) is in getting the optimum aerodynamics and set up (mechanical grip, handling etc).

The radiators on this car are going to be tiny.

I'm beginning to think this whole crazy venture might actually happen?! They might even have built a car!

Thanks for that! I've just checked the Brazilian media and it's also reported there.

Who has that perception?

Everyone understands that putting a rules-compliant car together with little-to-no intention of being competitive is relatively easy.. the difference with Indycar is that you don't have forever to do it.. and in either case if you don't make it in time then whole thing collapses like a house of cards.

It does require a blend of circumstances though... look at Campos; they got their car ready, drivers, etc.. and no monies to pay the bills.

We've been saying that for the last 5% of performance it takes 80% of the budget. I don't expect any of the new teams to be competitive with the established teams. In essence there is a two tier championship regardless of if the FIA see it that way. The fans sure will.

I want them to make the first race at least so that they can be included in the video game. Though no-one would play as them.

That's just cruel.....

Imagine how the StefanGP/videogames fanatics are feeling!

How do you see that from that angle?

I could say the same thing with Campos.

In the game the Dallara (Campos) will be ready to use but you have to enter the secret code "20MILLION" to access it.

Born leader ?
What does it mean ?

His mother had twins and J-Lo came out first

It normally means a person that has the abilities to lead someone, like a business or a team etc. So, maybe his previous employers have had a good experience with him as a "leader" kind of driver? Everyone has to start somewhere and you can be a leader even without F1 driving experience. I guess it's just a phrase to describe his personality?

What else could it be?

Good point.

About this out-sourcing strategy, is ... implemented to get al what they need to do once and for all from 'pro-s' so that for the next car they know what to do, what to improve what to change etc.. So I am feeling that USF1 will be happy to be there and their strategy wil be to become a lucky team occasionally in any ways they can. ??? My question is then if they are lucky enough to get actually 'luck' during the race...

Looks like some sort of foam mock-up for the sidepods, roll hoop as well.



Another camera angle shows the mounting plates for the radiator. It looks like they have enough parts lying around to make at least two cars, just looking at the various videos and trying to see stuff on the back wall. I have yet to see wings, maybe those are outsourced, or still in CFD modelling? At least we know the big hitters are not ready yet either, but who will be?

USF1 has stuff that can probably be ready, just looking around IMO that is. Campos has cars ready, but looks like Dallara is not willing to release them yet for lack of funds. Lotus? - have not paid much attention since it really is not the Lotus of old that I loved as a kid.

Red Bull - will be late to testing, but will make the races of course. Took a stance of developing the car.
Ferrari - Alonso says he has seen it, so I guess it is ready. They took the Brawn approach.
Brawn - still developing, showed the 09 with new colors. But I swear that front wing was new.
Stefan - has a Toyota of sorts, would it make 2010 regs if they were told to go due to Campos dropping.
Campos - would still have to build the cars as I heard they are in kit form.

The others not sure but all the established race teams know what they are doing. I only worry now about the new teams, and I wish them all well.

I did also see the other angle (180 deg from the angle in the photo) and that shows the mounting plates. I was just asking because it seemed like he thought they might fit into the front opening of the sideimpact/crash structure.

Dallaras cars apparently has to be assembled at Campos. Whether it's "only" engine and transmission (and rear suspension) or if it's from the ground up is not clear. If it's the latter, I would be worried if Campos have not received any cars from Dallara yet (as someone mentioned on the Campos thread).

And I agree, it's only the new teams I worry about as well. When Red Bull say they will skip the first test, that does not worry me at all. If USF1 does only one test before Bahrain I would be worried about their reliability and readyness for Bahrain. If Campos does not test and only announces their second driver on the eve of the Bahrain race (as the team said today) I would be even more worried...

First milestone to pass (apart from crash tests, funding etc) is testing and if no testing, next milestone would be Bahrain. Until Friday practice in Bahrain I will not rule out any team that does not say they won't make it (barring other exceptional circumstances that I can't foresee ).

Off topic, but the front wing at launch was old, it was the Aus-spec, and the front wing in the render was the Turkey/Suzuka spec.

I edited my post with more pictures, a better one of the gearbox. If Campos has to wire the car that would be troubling as well, unless Dallara has all the looms in place. Of all new teams right now, I would not want to be Campos, unless the directions are like what you get with Serpent RC car (well then you would build the diff wrong.. lol).

yup, nice shot of the gearbox..

Is that Cosworth a mock up? Our the real engine?

Looks like the real deal to me.. doesn't 100% mean it's a new one though..

I guess that's USF1's own transverse gearbox? Could be just the casing and no internals, but at least it exists!

Someone commented recently that USF1 had shown very little so far. Can someone enlighten me on which team has shown more of their 2010 car and interviews at the factory etc.?

I went looking at all the websites, and honestly USF1 was the only team doing what they are doing. If they come through with a webcam of the constructions bays (guessing that would be Motorland) it would be really sweet.

Red Bull has some fantastic pictures, but all of the '09 car. Red Bull has always been open once the season is underway though. McLaren did some things as well.

I believe the "mock up" engines actually were 2006 race engines, so they would look like a real engine.

However the engine that was shown previously had a gold part on the airbox that's not present on the latest video. I would however be a bit worried if this was the race engine as there is no cover on top of the airbox. You don't want bit's and pieces of debris falling into the trumpets..



Gearbox seems to be the same in the december photo. As I said previously, I wonder when the latest video was shot. Probably a few weeks ago now.

You think they hold out on releasing the videos asap, or that it takes that long to edit them?

Sounds strange to me..

Same valve cover as far as I can tell, and the wires at the bottom seem to be the same. They could be playing tricks with us, and all these videos are old and the car is already painted and ready for testing.

I also found it odd that we have a picture of Lopez at the factory, which was obviously old. I have seen some reports saying he will go for the first time for seat fitting, but I wonder if that is already done.

Let me rephrase... I hope it was shot a few weeks ago (not that I would know if they would be behind schedule if it was shot yesterday). But the electricians came from the UK and I believe that they would fly some of the stuff back to the UK to finish the wiring and other bits and pieces. That might not take more than a few days, but there is a lot of work that can't be completed during assembly until the wiring is in place...

It's perhaps not strange if the team just wants to show different parts of the process of buiding a car and wants to release videos on a regular basis but won't show the car at it's current stage of completion yet (not that I have any good reasons to say that). It's a very common to show an edited version of reality, where the sequence of events does not necessarily reflect the real sequence or progress at the time of release.

However I'm just guessing here

Some higher resolution pics of the detail areas we are nitpicking about..taken from the HD stream, and lightened a bit to make it easier to see details

Gearbox


Wiring harness layout


Radiator 1


Radiator 2

i wonder how good/bad could this be for usf1 to be so revealing about their design. you certainly would never see another team do this.