But then the other new teams have an already proven gearbox, and I would have thought the cost of designing your own from scratch would be more. For a startup team with a small budget I think it would be more prudent to take a more standard approach in your first year and innovate later.

The diffuser thing is such a massive can of worms I won't get into that... it was a known solution that was mysteriously avoided by the best teams. Flavio went as far as saying the FIA told his team outright not to build one..

Anyway, let's stay away from the Mosley shenanigans...

I disagree with your take on the whole gearbox issue... maybe the Xtrac gearbox didn't fit in Anderson's masterplan, but that doesn't mean in no way that any of the others necessarily took the "easy route" and aren't "proper" F1 teams... you're just a romantic or something..

edit: regarding the obvious PR trap, I meant the "fresh thinking" line USF1 are trying to sell... IMO that's just silly PR nonsense. They can easily label anything they want like that, as they are a new team... doesn't mean the other F1 teams haven't thought of it, it might just have been rejected or be irrelevant for them..

MalaysiaF1
Force India
USF1.

Their gearbox is being made my Emco, who make transmissions for the GrandAm series.

The Speed article is the same as the Reuters. I'd take either to be credible. That would mean the crash tests would be in the next week or so.

A statement from Barber Motorsports Park on their facebook page..http://www.facebook.com/posted.php?id=2234...ortsPark?ref=mf



So Barber haven't yet been told when USF1 are testing. and I think they are getting a little fed-up of the attention.

Gearbox is using Emco internals, but the design is USF1 and cut on their machines.

F1 gearbox cases are usually investment cast Titanium. That's the sort of thing that almost all F1 teams would farm out.

Once again reading into what you want to hear and not necessarily what reality might be. They say the deal isn't finalized, they say nothing about dates. For all you know they could have several dates on hold but not knowing the absolute ready date for the car, they couldn't commit. I wouldn't say they were getting "fed up", but rather the demand for information from them I would think is unexpectedly high and they are communicating what they can say about the situation.

AFAIK, the current cases are as follows:

- Ferrari and Renault – Carbon walls with Titanium frame
- Mercedes, McLaren, RBR and FI - Carbon only
- Sauber – Titanium
- STR and Williams - Aluminium

So, now suddenly the DDD is Mosley shenanigans??? Do you have any proof of that??? First time I have ever heard it.

Maybe next year this time we will also say that the transverse gearbox was the known solution that was mysteriously avoided by the best teams...

And I used the "proper" team as in that's what quite a few here don't recognize USF1 as being (USF1 being labeled a joke etc. and apparently not a "proper" team). That's why I had the "" on the word proper.

You can argue as much as you want, but it's easier to buy a readymade gearbox from Xtrac than it is to design and build your own (with EMCO as their experts). And designing your own gives benefits that buying a standard unit doesn't (it also brings big engineering challenges, which kind of also underlines the teams willingness to take on the tasks required to build a car without to many compromizes).

The fresh thinking PR is not only from USF1 but also from the likes of Racecar Engineering. And you don't agree that basing a F1 team in USA, outsourcing manufacturing and the teams latest videos are examples of fresh thinking (as I don't know to many other F1 teams doing it like USF1). And, please don't use the "other teams might have rejected the idea" line as you can use that on EVERY thing anybody does different. It's like the DDD, pull rod RB rear suspension, McLaren steer brake etc. Someone can allways say that "oh yes we thought about that idea years ago but we rejected it". As long as a team does something new and different to the other teams it represents fresh thinking (even though the other teams have thought about it, but as long as noone have actually done it, how can the other teams know what Ross Brawn has been thinking about..???

So you would rather have the teams say something along the lines of "we have a different gearbox/diffuser/suspension etc to the other cars out there, but we don't want to call it "fresh thinking" as we are not 100% sure if someone else have not thought about it before us"

Just after the CART/IRL split the young drivers started going more to stock cars and sports cars. There just weren't he seats or the funding. Over the last several years the funded young drivers aren't looking toward formula car racing. In terms of driving for a living racing stock cars it's a quicker payoff, you don't have to live overseas staying home with family and friends, there are many more seats and the length of the career is much longer. In recent years there have only been 20 or so F1 seats total with only a few new rides becoming available each season, In the 3 touring NASCAR series there are over 100 full time seats and perhaps that many again as part time that have the opportunity to make enough money to just drive a race car. The US is unique in that other part of the world don't have either the diversity of racing we do or the depth of opportunities to race professionally. We have the deepest, most participatory racing culture in the world.

Well, look it up... the Mosley angle is what I deduced from it, Flavio was quoted as saying Charlie Whiting basically told his team not to build a DDD. That would have been back at the early stage of design of the ugly truck Renault came up with..
For the record, and to finish on that OT tangent, I believe the double-deck diffusers were legal to the letter of the rules but that something else went on that was never fully uncovered... the attacks sure were conveniently flying within FOTA and the FIA ultimately sided with the 'winners'



It wont be...

I thought everyone was fully aware that you can't trust anything that CW tells you.

"It won't be"

Jesus, that is a great rebuttal. It's not at all condescending, and it's quite informative, well thought out, and well supported. Thanks, SIFO!

Err... my pleasure.

It's a prediction I'm making.. and you're free to make yours as well..

Thank you for giving me permission to make predictions!

I predict that USF1 will be at or near the back for the entire season. Because they are a new team, with a few different components, they could easily have reliability problems that cause a number of DNF's. By the end of the year, I predict they either scrap their "innovative" bits, or work the bugs out. I predict a total points haul of "0" in the constructors column. I also predict that they will show themselves to be a solid team.

Another prediction follows the first. I predict that many will continue to pooh-pooh the team at every turn, because they either dislike Windsor, the United States, or small teams. This prediction is based on many of the posts in this thread that show not the least objectivity or reasoned logic.

A separate prediction is that there will be no great wave of constructors switching to transverse gearboxes. My reason for this is not based on knowledge but reason. I reason that large teams probably have considered the benefits and cost of transverse and longitudinal. I would assume that they saw that if they spent millions (amount "Z") on a longitudinal, they could get a better result than spending much less on a transverse. Likewise, USF1 could have reasoned that they could spend X amount for the xtrac or X+Y for a transverse that gave some kind of performance benefit. X+Y amount fit their budget, but spending Z would not, therefore they went with the transverse.

Well there you go... I see it a bit differently but we pretty much arrive at the same conclusions..

Obviously the teams with far bigger budgets have already considered the pros and cons of different layouts... and it is arguable they are better at making such decisions..

I just thought it was important to make a distinction between that decision on gearbox layout and the double-decker diffusers debacle of last season... for one thing there isn't any political issues* in sight with the use of transverse gearboxes..



* - not sure how to label it without some having their finer sensibilities assaulted and roughed-up

Interesting Twitter exchange..





About the gearbox, Obviously USF1 have thought it worth while to spend some of their resources making their own gearbox, so they obviously think there is a reasonable benefit to be gained by not using the Xtrac box. All power to them. However I'm not convinced the 'box shown in the last video is a transverse arrangement. normally transverse shafts will make their mark on the sides of the casing with buttressing and access plates like this..



Note the ribbed bulge, and three black removable covers for the actuator, input and output shafts.

This is the box that USF1 has shown.



Of course, all the bits could be on the other side, but I'd still expect to see three buttressed shaft carriers. I'm not a Formula One gearbox designer though, so make of that what you will.

Well, we already know from Robert Doornbos that you need $5 million to get a USF1 seat, whether he can get that or not is another matter.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson/20..._nation_wi.html

Winddor :
He insists, though, that they will be ready for the first race in Bahrain on 14 March, while admitting: "It's going to be tight

I think the gearbox in the photo/video is just the casing without the internals, that's why there is no output shafts. But seeing this drawing makes me wonder if it's a transverse after all....



However this is the transverse gearbox casing for Andersons Falcon Indy car:







BTW, here is a comparison of two McLaren gearboxes MP4/4 (longitudinal) and MP4/5 (transverse)




Interesting article:

http://www.weismann.net/mclaren.html

Also on the testing discussion:

Tony Matthews is a member of this BB.

He's the guy who did that pictures and countless other amazing technical drawings.

I'm sure he'd answer your questions about the transverse box.

The illustration is from 2002, meaning that the system is pre-seamless shit, ... should be longer now with double clutch, mr Matthews?

That's just the bellhousing. The IRL cars use this spec longitudinal Xtrac box that bolts up to the end of that:

God knows what the gearbox in the photo/video is... might be some random dummy, might represent a design change decision or that we started off with erroneous information from the get-go...

scarbs on http://www.f1technical.net/ :

You are quite right I guess. I also wondered if it was just the bellhousing, but it was posted on another forum as the gearbox casing.

I also believe now that what we see on the photos might be a longitudinal gearbox.

Did this morning's Ferrari have a transverse box out of interest?

Can't seem to find any details.

That guy is one lazy bastard!

Move your a$$ and dish out some more videos!

http://www.usgpe.com/charlotte.html

What's the picture on the left hand screen? It looks like he is keeping an eye on the vending machine.

It's a CNC machine.

According to some old YouTube videos it's where they make toasters.

Maybe it's the uniform locker!

Does anybody know what the sponsorship terms of the Argentinian government are with USF1, regarding Lopez?

Its a Stratasys FDM rapid prototyping machine, a very trick bit of kit that can literally" print" a 3D prototype in ABS straight from a cad file.

Can it make tea? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2IJdfxWtPM

As I understood, Windsor demanded the Government to provide the guarantee if the sponsor doesn't pay.

The President of Argentina had to fire - illegally - the President of the - independent - Central Bank to made the operation feasible, bcs he refused to use the National Reserves.

But what for... Last year the Arg Government made a waiver on international payments, so nothing is guaranteed for USF1.

oh well, I guess next time he'll think about who his boss is now won't he?
Are you so naive to think that the Argentine President fired an INDEPENDENT bank president over F1 sponsorship Oh sure the stockholders just sat back and twiddled their thumbs; I mean their just stockholders after all they've no say in how their business is run or who runs it.

You have NO IDEA if their payments are guaranteed or not; or even if there are any payments at all. It could be a lump sum or ?.

Were you there during negotiations? I think not. As usual, it's nothing but spewing rumors and whatever bullshit that's available and calling it the 'truth'.

Isn't it a bit strange that USF1 went back into total darkness after the Lopez announcement though?

The little information we got was from Lopez himself, confusing if not conflicting stuff about testing at the Barber track, no word from the team as to who the second driver might end up being, etc...

All they say is that they're going to be there in Bahrain... in comparison the other new teams have clearer situations, or at least their own publically shared deadlines (apart from Bahrain) which are yet failed to be met..

Campos seems to have finances issues and an evil shark like Teixeira hovering around them, but then again this we do know about..

Lotus and Virgin have announced when their cars will hit the track.

Sounds painful.

here's a cool vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVYZDsc6XWo

They seem to have a habit of releasing info on Tuesday's and Friday's - so I will go out on an internet limb here and say we will see more of the car on Tuesday next week. Or a semi-internet car launch if you will, I doubt they will have a big launch party like the other teams. I get the feeling it will be low key, here is the car, we are hard at work on making #2, #3 and the crash test car so please excuse us while we do nothing big sort of a thing.

Or we might get here is how you hook up the cooling lines to the engine and radiators. lol

No have no clue about what you are talking about.

Usually:
The President of Central Banks / Eximbank doesn't respond/submit to the Country President, but to the Congress [see the 2nd shift of Ben Bernanke in USA].

The are no stocks of Central Banks in the stock market, but shareholders or bearer of interest in the actions of the Bank towards the development of the country, that means the People of Argentina.

And finally Argentina really had default in payments so their credit score is no good.

Are you trying to explain the facts that supports your statements about the sponsorship of USF1 or are you trying to explain the Argeninian banking system

Because I can't really see that you provide information that backs up your statements about firing people etc. You might be correct, but could you please provide some sources for your claims? I cannot remember reading any of this in the media, but maybe it's just reported in Argentina?

Dear DFV,
Kindly seach in Brazilian sites.
The information is there.

About the coup that demoted the Eximbank President, I don't know exactly if the J-Lo guarantee to USF1 was the reason, but the operation fits the same reason, the interference of Christina Kirschner in the independent Eximbank to demand the release of National reserves to make payments.

I'm saying that the Argentinian Gov guarantee doesn't have much value these days, that means USF1 has no guarantee if J-Lo sponsors doesn't pay on schedule.

What president in his, or her, right mind would do such a thing to secure $2 mill for sponsorship of a foreign F1 team?

As I'm not very fluent in neither Spanish nor Portuguese, could you guide me to some news articles covering these stories you are referring to? (it's kinda hard to know what to search for, or which words to use, in a language I don't know. Not to mention which of the articles are interesting and that I should translate via Google).