Or DC..

Is the helmet that big

No in all seriousness, DC would be great. Maybe a Monster Energy sponsored DC!

I can't fathom why some people have such trouble making logical arguments, and putting rumors and facts in their proper place. I tend to agree with DFV on the sentiment that things are looking a little more worrying as the first race approaches, but that the constant rumors are no more than - constant - rumors. This thread is fun and interesting to a point, but it appears to me that many come on the thread just to post a quick comment about "Windbag".

Well, i think at this point, WE GET IT. Peter Windsor is not a well loved man around here. So why not start a separate thread about how awful he is? Do we have to keep hearing it over and over? At least a separate thread would allow for rampant PW comments that would be on the topic.

Understandably, we had some early comments about him; and that certainly has some effect on the team and is to be expected. But I think we are past that now.

On the subject of the popular mechanics link, there was at least one factual error about the teams being required to be at every race.

I was also thinking about the lack of videos. This is complete speculation, but i wondered if someone with other, more critical duties, volunteered early to do the videos and now has had to relegate that responsibility to the back burner. Or possibly, that others to be interviewed are a little too busy right now. I'm a little uncomfortable posting this because it sounds like I'm really stretching for excuses, but I'm really just trying to think of a reason for the lack of videos other than that the team is floundering/bankrupt or similar.

I actually don't mind Windsor all that much, i just think his team is way, way behind where they need to be.

There is no doubt a US team can succeed, they have the technology and the facilities, they just need money.

Sorry to jump in here again Alfisti

Do we (you) know that they don't have money and sponsors?

The closest I get is this quote from Windsor today:



Seems to indicate that a sponsor has been replaced with another. Should indicate that the team actually have sponsors (which some seem to doubt).

Oh i am sure they have sponsors, but at what price? If they were ready they'd be showing us they were ready rather than saying "we'll be there but it's not going to be pretty".

There are clearly serious financial problems or they'd have a second driver, a proper web site, clothing line and a car that was fired up at least.

Proton are British now?

Before they can get money they need to find a willing sponsor with interest. With that said we are back to square one. F1 generates very little interest here in America, that's just a fact. Partly because we have our 'own' sports and partly because of the perceptions about F1; perceptions made from comments like Bernie makes and has made about America. He is doing (has done) a huge dis-service to anyone looking to form a US-based F1 team.

Reading the many articles about USF1, it's plain to see that most authors equate USF1 to a kind of "Team USA", which couldn't be further from the truth - see above. Most Americans would rather spend money on saving the Fairy Shrimp than fielding an F1 team.

Nope, they have a media team, headed up by a motorsport/car stuff documentary maker. It's all looking very much like a cash problem right now. Hopefully, not an insurmountable one. I'm getting a bit nervous for them...

Ok. I just don't draw those same clear conclusions from what we see so far. I think the lateness has more to do with poor planning and underestimating how long it takes to build two cars.

And I don't see how this: "If they were ready they'd be showing us they were ready rather than saying "we'll be there but it's not going to be pretty"."has anything to do with the teams financial state. If the team had a finsihed car, don't you think they would show it regardless of their financial situation?

But I am not going to argue further. Your view might be correct.

BTW sponsors normally don't come at a price, they usually bring money...

If it suits people's blatant anti-USF1/Peter Windsor agendas then hell yeah...

Hardly? I doubt we'll barely ever see the new teams on TV unless they're really racing out of position or something blows up. I'm expecting a Mclaren-Ferrari-Mercedes show from the director...

This is not the point... read again what Windsor said today, February 4th... HE DOESN'T HAVE A CLUE when his car is going to be ready.

There is no date for any tests, or a shakedown... no dates for the FIA crash tests, nothing. Of course he can't say he'll miss Bahrain, as it would mean instant-death for the team.

It's not just about Windsor being a windbag, which he is, it's about the nature of the 'wind' itself.... it sure looks like BS! There is no real commitment apart from the only thing he cannot avoid; Bahrain.

That statement outside of planet Windsor should have been: 'We hope to make it, but it doesn't look good and we can't give you reassurance in the form of deadlines or sponsors, drivers and tests announcement.'

A ton of topics going right now, but here are my thoughts.

Windsor - I never took issue with him until he started his love affair for Lewis Hamilton on the air, since I only have SpeedTV I got to hear these comments. On the Speed forums he quickly was nicknamed Peter Hamilton. Other than that I have never really disliked the guy, and really still do not, just wish the journalists would keep their bias to themselves.

Ken Anderson - He has developed some interesting race cars over the years, or been a key player in the development of winning cars. I am really interested to see what he creates.

Will they make it - They are in the heart of our motor land, I am sure they can easily reach out to some of the Nascar teams for some temp employees. Get the suspension on the car, etc. But honestly modern F1 cars are meant to be simple to assemble, they have to be. Engine changes are not all that hard, a matter of hours compared to days (ok months) on my now historic Porsche that I still keep around for some odd reason. I see no reason for them not to be at the first race, they have plenty of help they can reach out to, if they choose to do so.

Do they need to be at the first race? - From a money standpoint, yes they do. Do they have to be the best prepared team on the grid, no.

Second driver - this is still worrying, but reports of a driver already being signed are hitting the press in various countries. So it could be true, but honestly why all the secrecy with the driver signing? We know by looking at the pictures that Lopez was at the factory quite a bit before the signing ceremony with the President. Did they already fit his seat? Some reports say he still needs to do this, but I wonder if it is done since he has already been at the factory. Who knows, but I wish we knew. lol

It won't be pretty comment by Peter Windsor - OHHHH this means they are just slapping the local sponsor stickers on the car, sort of Nascar style you could say. So the local junk yard will have a sticker, the local meat market, etc. $1,000 gets you a small sticker just north of the sidepod!! (joke) Maybe the cars will not have the final livery, but we do know the old Sauber blue is now available.

USF1 has always said, this year we hope to just race, next year we go for doing more. If they are really going to be around for a bit, they should be ok. Many US based companies would be interested in F1 - Microsoft with the Xbox Live branding for instance. McDonalds though I shudder at that one, but they could power the car on french fry fat and beat virgin to the green fuel deal.

For the most part this is an interesting thread, I think half the fun of F1 is sometimes the conversations leading up to the first races. I wish all the teams the best, and I hope the new teams are on the grid. I must admit I would love to see Pro Drive added though.

Ahh come on now, we will see them a bunch actually. When MS, Alonso, and Lewis lap them every few laps. They will get great exposure on TV, and if they block well even more so. As long as the new teams don't block my favorite driver!

No mistake there, each entered teams needs to participate in all the races.



I'm not sure what happens if a competitor actually misses the first event... I guess this year is a little special in that regard as Stefan is apparently ready to run.

that was then, this is now ... new clause 13.5 added to concorde agreement which lets team skip three races and not forfeit their place in championship.

Didn't James Allen confirm that "each team can miss 3 races" rule is in effect for 2010? I honestly don't remember... too many rumors this off-season.

Well, in the Autosport article about Campos and USF1 released today, they're saying they never asked for it... in any case, even if the F1 teams agreed to drop the requirement, the regulations would still need to be amended at the FIA level of things... a rule can't just be left there and ignored in a gentlemen's agreement kind of way, because if someone for some reason was to raise a protest it would be legitimate and the FIA would look like utter fools, and they would have to act.

Adrian Valles to USF1, Official Announcement Imminent (English Translation)

Well, at least they have both drivers... that's... good? I guess?

Wat?

You've seen the Concorde agreement? I call BS... and even then it doesn't supersede the FIA regulations. You need the idiots in suits at the FIA World Council to actually have the regulations changed, which they might actually do if they want to fight with Bernie and keep Stefan GP out of the game..

So to the people who know a lot more about Valles... is he any good? Done anything memorable? etc. etc.

Superleague Formula's current Champion, Liverpool FC...

Adrian Valles and Liverpool FC Racing Team celebrate

Is that supposed to mean anything? I don't really follow Superleague since I could care less about club level soccer.

Isn't Superleague just another Champ Car in terms of talent?

He's the reigning SuperLeague Formula champion. SuperLeague cars are V-12 with around 750HP. So they're more powerful than a GP2 car.

He should have little problem getting a Super License.

The official new teams are Campos, Lotus, USF1 and Virgin. Out of those 4 only 1 team has passed the crash tests, done an official launch, has actually done a shakedown and will be at Jerez. IIRC (I'm not very well so I'm going to leave it there), Lotus will be launching 12th Feb.

Other than that we have no definitive dates from Campos and USF1.

I want to see both teams on the grid. So I am neutral in that perspective.

However, although it seems a million miles away to Bahrain to us (the fans), it isn't that far away.

Neither team atm fill me with a great deal of confidence (I wish that was not the case).

I dont like or dislike Peter Windsor or Ken Anderson.

My point is that they cant up to Bahrain without any testing and expect FP1, FP2 and Saturday practice as a shakedown. Its less of a problem if you have experienced F1 drivers. They both haven't got definitive second drivers, They haven't had seat fittings (well as far as we knoe=w they haven't).

All I can say is, novice drivers, with no practice, thrown in at the deepend is not good. Especially in a car that has never hit the track. My opinion is 2 rookies with an untested car is not safe.

However I dont know how good their sim is.

The FIA made a big style cock up when it decided on the new teams. Oddly the 1 team that everyone had concerns about is the only one to make it to Jerez.

In terms of recent single-seater experience for Valles, it's actually better than Pechito, isn't it?

It's pretty clear that quality of drivers isn't a USF1 priority... Unlike the other teams I believe their issues are more on the technical side of things..

-I had my doubts about Wirth, but the Virgin car is already running.. and they'll sort out issues with all the testing they're going to be doing.

-Dallara (Campos) can build racing cars, might not be fast but I'd be surprised about any inherent catastrophic faults..

-Lotus... Gascoyne is no saint but he's proven he can deliver.

-USF1, well as pointed out several pages ago, Ken Anderson has an interesting (falsified?) resume... good luck, lol

That's slightly exaggerated .... for the concorde to be amended all the signatories would need to agree and sign the amendment. Which would be a pretty big deal we would definitely be hearing about.

Now if some of the signatories requested special dispensation from their counterparties (CVC/FIA) to break one of the conditions and they agreed that's a different issue altogether. That's far more likely, I somehow doubt that Bernie sat down and gave everybody the right to miss 3 races/season for the duration of the Concorde and not suffer any penalties.

But either way, all that's beside the point. The point is with both Campos and USF1 things are kinda murky ... They are supposed to have a car, which doesn't as yet have a crashtest or a launch date, and both seem to be intending to just turn up in Bahrain and race, without so much as firing up the engine before or doing a basic shakedown. That sounds weird to most people, irrespective of whether they like Windsor or not. I mean people dislike Briatore too but ... nobody thought his cars wouldn't turn up come raceday.

If they have to use Bahrain as a shakedown then so be it. I've got no problem with it. That goes for any of the teams with an entry.

I'm thinking there might be some sort of connection for Adrian Valles driving for USF1

He was the reigning Superleague champion.

He drove for Liverpool's Race Team

Liverpool are owned by two Americans.

Valles was the chatter I was picking up on a few days back, but I could not find the links when I went to look. The article I read said good things, so we shall see what the truth is. So two drivers, half a car, sounds like we are ready to race!!

To the comment about even if they use the first GP as a shakedown. I agree! And what major team a few years back did not have a car ready for the year, and used an older spec but updated chassis?

So why the fuss, give the new teams a break (not you, but the "haters" so to speak).. How many times have we seen current teams using old parts for the first few races, etc. This is F1, it is the circus that we love and it always plays out differently. Maybe this year we see Campos and Stefan trying to push their cars into the same garage, with Bernie having promised them both something.

Anything can happen, it might be Force India's year to win, maybe they have the hot design this year. At any rate, just my rant.;)

Edited to add: http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-...e-to-usf1-deal/

Valles is probably worthy of an F1 seat. And USF1 would be ok.

He is the champ of the Superleague series.

These cars are not to be laughed at. They are super fast monsters.

If he can handle one of these, he can handle an F1 car.

F1 should have V-12 engines.

Valles is not a bad driver and it will be interesting to see how he will perform compared to Lopez but his results in GP2 were not great and I don't rate him as highly as several other GP2 drivers; he was usually in the midfield. And Supercars has a system of completely reverse grid races in race 2. Valles was never dominant in Superleague either; he was the most consistent driver in Superleague but not as fast as Bourdais after he joined the series when he lost his Toro Rosso job.

How much money does Valles have?

The choice of drivers for USF1 is hardly inspirational is it!

worst driver pairing on the grid it seems they'll have

Depends on how much mullah they bring to the table; Lopez $8m + Valles $8m = and insipring figure of $16m .

Now if they'd wrangled Petrov's €15m + Lopez €5.8376m = €23.8376m = $32.6677m (US) now THAT is insipiring

DFV, with all due respect you're starting to sound like someone who's blinded by faith.

You perhaps need to stop taking what people like myself and 'Fisti are saying so literally, and just consider the gist of it.

That is, it appears that USF1 lack funding, experience, and progress that suggests they'll be present in Bahrain.

Now whilst you could counter with "Prove they DON'T have funding", that really shows you're just being combative.

An F1 team being this late with their car to crash tests, and to shakedowns, 99% of the time indicates a lack of funding. History shows this. The 1%? Red Bull (and possibly others), as you've mentioned.

The difference is that Red Bull had a history on their side; they'd demonstrated an ability to fund an F1 team, build a car, and employ the number of people of the calibre and experience required to run an F1 team. For them to then choose to reveal their car late was then understandable, and didn't/doesn't lead to the same kind of rumours. There's a degree of trust that they've delivered before, therefore they'll deliver again.

USF1 is different. They've never demonstrated an ability to adequately fund an F1 team for 1 or more seasons, and to employ the right number of correctly trained and experienced people needed to build two F1 cars and race them.
So them being late with crash tests and shakedowns doesn't come across so well. It shows a lack of funding. A lack of preparation. A lack of progress.

History has shown that in every other single situation where a team has been this late, shown this lack of funding, shown this lack of progress, they've not lasted longer than a season. Even at their worst, Minardi had a fully functioning F1 factory that had a history of turning out F1 cars, to spec, manned by a staff of experienced F1 engineers. USF1 don't have that same pedigree, so there's nothing to suggest that they will do as well.

It doesn't mean we WANT them to fail, and it doesn't mean they WILL. It just means every single indicator of progress, success, stability and longevity appears to a rational person to show that they're in deep shit.

The same is true of Campos to be fair. I've seen very little of them, and I think they're in the same boat. Lotus I've seen more of, so they look far, far more likely to be in Bahrain, and VR have shown the same amount of progress as established teams.

So don't be so literal when reading our posts, and don't assume we're hating on USF1. It's not our fault that everything suggests they're a slim chance to make race1, and therefore a slim chance to make the whole season.

Doesn't mean it's over.

Since when are you all articulate and sensible?

Well said.

This is not true at all. There are countless examples of teams in exactly this situation who have managed to survive several seasons. Osella even survived a decade.

and there's also been other teams who had good prospects and sponsorship but failed miserably.

so I think is better to just wait and see what happens.. Virgin can easily pull a Spyker.

The problem in hiring unknow / unproven / "debatable" drivers is... if USF1 is slow, you will never know how much is due to drivers and how much is due to the car.

Yeah I'm not actually sure what happened there

Once again, we are not against US in F1.

I think the Corvette - Miller Pratt project could have made it decently in F1, with their budget, not to mention Penske.

USF1 seems to be the crazy dream of a "I can do better" siren journalist that convinced an internet bubble millionaire to fund the team.
The YouTube guy is the new Dom Panoz.

Not a valid example. Osella was an established racing team, with facitilites and people to match. They also entered F1 in a completely different time, when funding was still an issue, but not to the level it is now. They also came into F1 in a more established fashion, using established techniques and methods.

No team has started from nothing, with so little funding as to be at the stage USF1 is at now, and survived for long.

In the last decade, no new team has entered F1....they've all been evolutions of exsting teams. I admire what USF1 is doing, but the last team to start from nothing was....actually I'm not sure. Prost? Were they an existing race team, or did they take over the remains of an old team?

Yes, this is also true. It's not JUST about funding....look at Toyota and BAR as probably the best examples. But that simply reinforces my point.

If the richest car company in the world can't take their successful European race team, pump billions of dollars into them, follow all the proven and established methods for success, and make it work, and a well funded tobacco company can't take a world championship driver, buy an existing F1 team, pump millions and millions in, and succeed, then the chances of these other teams are pretty damn slim. Not impossible, but it's a hell of a challenge. For even having a go you have to respect all of the newcomers....hell look at StefanGP, they're rearing to go and they're not even in the thing!

USF1 might want it bad enough, and they might have the right people, but if they don't have the funding then it's hard to even get on their feet. Look how hard F1 is for established teams with established budgets. It's no wonder USF1, Campos, etc are struggling.

Ligier.

Right, you can't compare the manufacturing cost of Osella's Alu Honeycomb to USF1 Carbon Fiber monocoque [Autoclave].

I think Nick Wirth's Symtek was the last new team, together with another new one I can't recall.

I think Toyota were the last to start from something that WASN'T an F1 team in any way, shape or form previously. Then you'd still have to go back to....Stewart?...to find a team who were "promoted" from running F3 or whatever into F1....and before them Jordan?

When you look at it like that, these are the first teams in a long, long time to start from NOTHING. They might have some F1 experienced people, but they're not existing racing teams (Campos aside) and they don't have an old F1 team's facilities. What happened to the Super Aguri stuff? That was the ex-Arrows stuff?

New article from Dieter, the only reason left to subscribe to Autosport.com unfortunately:

http://www.autosport.com/features/article.php/id/2613

"Across the Atlantic, Cosworth-contracted US F1 is said to be seriously in arrears on its chassis build programme – so much so that there are doubts as to whether the team will be able to debut by the fourth grand prix of the season."

He then talks about their YouTube sponsor Chad Hurley being persuaded to buy the Dallara chassis' that was built for Campos but won't get used as they're kaput, thus allowing them to bolt the cossie on and at least go racing whilst they sort their stuff out.

You mean Pacific; they were also new in 1994. And it was Simtek, not Symtek!
But after those two teams Forti still entered F1.