It's reasonable to assume that USF1 was hatched under the assumption that there would be budget cap. That's, in fact, what they were promised. And promised by a guy who'd ruled F1 with iron fist for the better part of 2 decades.
I believe this alone would explain why they have funding problems. F1 is turning out to be several times more expensive than they were promised it would be dictated to be.
Full Version: Will USF1 make it to the 2010 grid? (merged)
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138
QUOTE (2ms @ Feb 5 2010, 07:36) 
It's reasonable to assume that USF1 was hatched under the assumption that there would be budget cap. That's, in fact, what they were promised. And promised by a guy who'd ruled F1 with iron fist for the better part of 2 decades.
I believe this alone would explain why they have funding problems. F1 is turning out to be several times more expensive than they were promised it would be dictated to be.
I believe this alone would explain why they have funding problems. F1 is turning out to be several times more expensive than they were promised it would be dictated to be.
USF1 was the only of the new teams that was interested before the budget cap and said they would sign up, budget cap or not. The other two, Campos and Manor, only came on after the budget cap was announced.
QUOTE (JForce @ Feb 5 2010, 03:37)
DFV, with all due respect you're starting to sound like someone who's blinded by faith.
You perhaps need to stop taking what people like myself and 'Fisti are saying so literally, and just consider the gist of it.
That is, it appears that USF1 lack funding, experience, and progress that suggests they'll be present in Bahrain.
Now whilst you could counter with "Prove they DON'T have funding", that really shows you're just being combative.
An F1 team being this late with their car to crash tests, and to shakedowns, 99% of the time indicates a lack of funding. History shows this. The 1%? Red Bull (and possibly others), as you've mentioned.
The difference is that Red Bull had a history on their side; they'd demonstrated an ability to fund an F1 team, build a car, and employ the number of people of the calibre and experience required to run an F1 team. For them to then choose to reveal their car late was then understandable, and didn't/doesn't lead to the same kind of rumours. There's a degree of trust that they've delivered before, therefore they'll deliver again.
USF1 is different. They've never demonstrated an ability to adequately fund an F1 team for 1 or more seasons, and to employ the right number of correctly trained and experienced people needed to build two F1 cars and race them.
So them being late with crash tests and shakedowns doesn't come across so well. It shows a lack of funding. A lack of preparation. A lack of progress.
History has shown that in every other single situation where a team has been this late, shown this lack of funding, shown this lack of progress, they've not lasted longer than a season. Even at their worst, Minardi had a fully functioning F1 factory that had a history of turning out F1 cars, to spec, manned by a staff of experienced F1 engineers. USF1 don't have that same pedigree, so there's nothing to suggest that they will do as well.
It doesn't mean we WANT them to fail, and it doesn't mean they WILL. It just means every single indicator of progress, success, stability and longevity appears to a rational person to show that they're in deep shit.
The same is true of Campos to be fair. I've seen very little of them, and I think they're in the same boat. Lotus I've seen more of, so they look far, far more likely to be in Bahrain, and VR have shown the same amount of progress as established teams.
So don't be so literal when reading our posts, and don't assume we're hating on USF1. It's not our fault that everything suggests they're a slim chance to make race1, and therefore a slim chance to make the whole season.
Doesn't mean it's over.
You perhaps need to stop taking what people like myself and 'Fisti are saying so literally, and just consider the gist of it.
That is, it appears that USF1 lack funding, experience, and progress that suggests they'll be present in Bahrain.
Now whilst you could counter with "Prove they DON'T have funding", that really shows you're just being combative.
An F1 team being this late with their car to crash tests, and to shakedowns, 99% of the time indicates a lack of funding. History shows this. The 1%? Red Bull (and possibly others), as you've mentioned.
The difference is that Red Bull had a history on their side; they'd demonstrated an ability to fund an F1 team, build a car, and employ the number of people of the calibre and experience required to run an F1 team. For them to then choose to reveal their car late was then understandable, and didn't/doesn't lead to the same kind of rumours. There's a degree of trust that they've delivered before, therefore they'll deliver again.
USF1 is different. They've never demonstrated an ability to adequately fund an F1 team for 1 or more seasons, and to employ the right number of correctly trained and experienced people needed to build two F1 cars and race them.
So them being late with crash tests and shakedowns doesn't come across so well. It shows a lack of funding. A lack of preparation. A lack of progress.
History has shown that in every other single situation where a team has been this late, shown this lack of funding, shown this lack of progress, they've not lasted longer than a season. Even at their worst, Minardi had a fully functioning F1 factory that had a history of turning out F1 cars, to spec, manned by a staff of experienced F1 engineers. USF1 don't have that same pedigree, so there's nothing to suggest that they will do as well.
It doesn't mean we WANT them to fail, and it doesn't mean they WILL. It just means every single indicator of progress, success, stability and longevity appears to a rational person to show that they're in deep shit.
The same is true of Campos to be fair. I've seen very little of them, and I think they're in the same boat. Lotus I've seen more of, so they look far, far more likely to be in Bahrain, and VR have shown the same amount of progress as established teams.
So don't be so literal when reading our posts, and don't assume we're hating on USF1. It's not our fault that everything suggests they're a slim chance to make race1, and therefore a slim chance to make the whole season.
Doesn't mean it's over.
When can people stop putting words in my mouth
I have not asked anyone to PROVE that USF1 have funding. But when someone states that they are lacking funding I am interested in learning more about it (but so far no one ever comes up with anything than their personal opinion when asked for facts). If you don't KNOW the teams finances, then it's better to stop claiming stuff as if it was facts.
And ONCE again. I did NOT question Red Bulls finances or that the car would be worse than the other cars. But Alfisti was arguing that the USF1 would be slower because it was launched later than the other cars. I then used the Red Bull as an example of the exact opposite. The fact that the Red Bull is launched late does NOT make it any slower than the other cars. We don't know that until we have seen them on the track.
When someone claims that the USF1 will be a dozen seconds off the pace and the only reason he can give is that it's because the car is launched later than the Virgin then I don't really undestand how someone can claim to know where the 12 seconds come from (I would have expected something more substantial to back up such a statement)
I also agree that it has become more worrying lately with Bahrain getting closer and the tests will be skipped (and I wrote that as well a few pages back).
What I don't understand is why it's legitimate to claim lot's of negative stuff about the team. But not legitimate to question those statements or ask for facts to back those statements up?
I'm in the 40ies, work as a senior engineer in shipping and I am not used to just accepting what people claim about their or others businesses to be true without any facts. As an engineer you are taught to always question the facts that are presented and not conclude until you have enough information to make a sound evaluation.
If someone told me that Ship (or vessel as we say) A would be a more stable, fuel efficient and faster ship than Ship B just because Ship A was launched two months ahead of Ship B. I would probably not take that shipyard/designer serious in the future. Before being able to evaluate those two ships you need to see their respective specifications and simulations etc. It might well be that Ship B is the better proposition than Ship A (the launch date is kind of irrelevant when comparing their performance figures).
QUOTE (2ms @ Feb 5 2010, 06:36)
It's reasonable to assume that USF1 was hatched under the assumption that there would be budget cap. That's, in fact, what they were promised. And promised by a guy who'd ruled F1 with iron fist for the better part of 2 decades.
I believe this alone would explain why they have funding problems. F1 is turning out to be several times more expensive than they were promised it would be dictated to be.
I believe this alone would explain why they have funding problems. F1 is turning out to be several times more expensive than they were promised it would be dictated to be.
How would the budget cap help them? The start up costs are the same regardless, if they don't have the money now, they wouldn't even if it were capped.
QUOTE (Clatter @ Feb 5 2010, 08:39)
How would the budget cap help them? The start up costs are the same regardless, if they don't have the money now, they wouldn't even if it were capped.
Exactly what I was thinking.
Having no budget cap for everyone else doesn't stop you from keeping to your own $40million limit.
They aren't forced to spend $100million+ just because everyone else is, Minardi never spent as much as the other teams but they still got quite good results.
QUOTE (Clatter @ Feb 5 2010, 08:39)
How would the budget cap help them? The start up costs are the same regardless, if they don't have the money now, they wouldn't even if it were capped.
I agree, Just because there isn't a budget cap, doesn't mean you HAVE to spend more money.
QUOTE (rmac923 @ Feb 4 2010, 23:58)
He's the reigning SuperLeague Formula champion. SuperLeague cars are V-12 with around 750HP. So they're more powerful than a GP2 car.
And much slower.
Fastest race lap at Magny-Cours in the GP2 weekend of 2008: 1:23.550 by Kamui Kobayashi
Fastest race lap at Magny-Cours in the Superleague weekend of 2009: 1:27.284 by Craig Dolby
Fastest race lap at Monza in the GP2 weekend of 2009: 1:32.553 by Luca Filippi
Fastest race lap at Monza in the Superleague weekend of 2009: 1.36.466 by Antonio Pizzonia
QUOTE (William Hunt @ Feb 5 2010, 06:04)
You mean Pacific; they were also new in 1994. And it was Simtek, not Symtek!
But after those two teams Forti still entered F1.
But after those two teams Forti still entered F1.
i won a championship with the Pacific in Grand Prix 2 back in the day...
in fairness it wasn't exactly a Pacific since i rewrote the livery myself
QUOTE (Paco @ Feb 4 2010, 20:23)
Not entirely surprising as the UK has far more resources readily available to them.
While the UK has more experienced and better equipped F1 teams, in no way are there more motorsport resources available in the UK than in the Charlotte metro area. Autoclaves don't work any differently over there, mills don't work any differently. The difference is in the experience of the design and management of an F1 team. In the Charlotte area alone there are more large scale professional race teams than in all of the UK. Add Indianapolis and there are more than in the UK and Europe combined. It's easier to start an F1 team in Charlotte than a Cup team in Brackley. The issues that USF1 is having are due more to the inexperience of the team rather than the location.
QUOTE (Clatter @ Feb 5 2010, 09:39)
How would the budget cap help them? The start up costs are the same regardless, if they don't have the money now, they wouldn't even if it were capped.
Good question.
I never thought that the capping was going to work. Many do questioned how it can be achieved as FOTA launched such a strong move.
QUOTE (One @ Feb 5 2010, 10:45)
Good question.
I never thought that the capping was going to work. Many do questioned how it can be achieved as FOTA launched such a strong move.
I never thought that the capping was going to work. Many do questioned how it can be achieved as FOTA launched such a strong move.
The cap was really to try and contain the technology race. By having a cap it makes it easier for the small teams to keep pace with the bigger ones as they can't be outspent. But in terms of starting a new team it's a complete red herring.
QUOTE (Clatter @ Feb 5 2010, 12:02)
The cap was really to try and contain the technology race. By having a cap it makes it easier for the small teams to keep pace with the bigger ones as they can't be outspent. But in terms of starting a new team it's a complete red herring.
The cap ay work, if the chassis were to sold in a market place, for which fixed or max price was defined in detail. Other than that, as long as teams built their car and time after time in technical partnerships and so on, would makes it extremely hard to control the actual spending, that many has posted previously.
QUOTE (RoutariEnjinu @ Feb 5 2010, 10:03)
QUOTE (RoutariEnjinu @ Feb 5 2010, 15:03)
Hahaha
QUOTE (William Hunt @ Feb 5 2010, 02:56)
Valles is not a bad driver and it will be interesting to see how he will perform compared to Lopez but his results in GP2 were not great and I don't rate him as highly as several other GP2 drivers; he was usually in the midfield. And Supercars has a system of completely reverse grid races in race 2. Valles was never dominant in Superleague either; he was the most consistent driver in Superleague but not as fast as Bourdais after he joined the series when he lost his Toro Rosso job.
Indeed, Vallés was good, very consistent (helped by a car which didn't brake down very often, something that was no frequent for most drivers last year) but, as Davide Rigon in 2008, he took the title based in consistency rather thatn speed. He wasn't faster than Max Wissel, Antonio Pizzonia or Tristan Gommendy, and surely not faster that Bourdais and Guerrieri who, in that order, were the most impressive drivers in SLF last season, despite not racing the whole championship and, in Guerrieri's case, swithcing thru three different football teams (2 racing teams) in 5 rounds, which is never good for a driver, specially in a teams championship with no proper drivers championship like this. Summarizing, he's a good consistent driver, who tested for Spyker in the past and won't be a shame on a F1 car.
QUOTE (paranoik0 @ Feb 5 2010, 10:48)
And much slower.
Fastest race lap at Magny-Cours in the GP2 weekend of 2008: 1:23.550 by Kamui Kobayashi
Fastest race lap at Magny-Cours in the Superleague weekend of 2009: 1:27.284 by Craig Dolby
Fastest race lap at Monza in the GP2 weekend of 2009: 1:32.553 by Luca Filippi
Fastest race lap at Monza in the Superleague weekend of 2009: 1.36.466 by Antonio Pizzonia
Fastest race lap at Magny-Cours in the GP2 weekend of 2008: 1:23.550 by Kamui Kobayashi
Fastest race lap at Magny-Cours in the Superleague weekend of 2009: 1:27.284 by Craig Dolby
Fastest race lap at Monza in the GP2 weekend of 2009: 1:32.553 by Luca Filippi
Fastest race lap at Monza in the Superleague weekend of 2009: 1.36.466 by Antonio Pizzonia
SLF raced without a low downforce package at Monza, I don't know why. Look a t some youtube videos, you will notice those "fat" rear wings...
EDIT: Anyone aware of the rumour that says that US F1 could run (American) Honda engines in 2011?
QUOTE (ezequiel @ Feb 5 2010, 18:15)
Indeed, Vallés was good, very consistent (helped by a car which didn't brake down very often, something that was no frequent for most drivers last year) but, as Davide Rigon in 2008, he took the title based in consistency rather thatn speed.
You know what, though, for a new team that is a little cash strapped he's perfect. A consistent driver that will be in the middle of the pack and brings the car home. A cheaper version of Heidfeld.
QUOTE (RoutariEnjinu @ Feb 5 2010, 16:03)
i miss only my personal favourite Ricky Bobby
Why the hell dont the new teams sort their finances out before they enter F1. dont they know the costs ? surely theyre not a secret !
I am astounded that we are still speculating who will be on the grid , what a farce.
I am astounded that we are still speculating who will be on the grid , what a farce.
Here's the Racecar Engineering mag, USF1 article on page 10.. you can only zoom-in on 3 pages though. Have fun.
http://www.zinio.com/reader.jsp?issue=4161...nt&prev=sub
OT: sometimes it ain't a bad idea to clean up that filthy hard drive of yours and clear your internet cache, just sayin'...
http://www.zinio.com/reader.jsp?issue=4161...nt&prev=sub
OT: sometimes it ain't a bad idea to clean up that filthy hard drive of yours and clear your internet cache, just sayin'...
QUOTE (Slowinfastout @ Feb 5 2010, 14:05)
Here's the Racecar Engineering mag, USF1 article on page 10.. you can only zoom-in on 3 pages though. Have fun.
http://www.zinio.com/reader.jsp?issue=4161...nt&prev=sub
OT: sometimes it ain't a bad idea to clean up that filthy hard drive of yours and clear your internet cache, just sayin'...
http://www.zinio.com/reader.jsp?issue=4161...nt&prev=sub
OT: sometimes it ain't a bad idea to clean up that filthy hard drive of yours and clear your internet cache, just sayin'...
Oh of course...
Anyway, great find!!! Thanks!
QUOTE (bladesblood @ Feb 5 2010, 19:01)
Why the hell dont the new teams sort their finances out before they enter F1. dont they know the costs ? surely theyre not a secret !
I am astounded that we are still speculating who will be on the grid , what a farce.
I am astounded that we are still speculating who will be on the grid , what a farce.
Considering a number of the teams lodged their entries based on a £40million budget cap it's not surprising it's been difficult.
QUOTE (wewantourdarbyback @ Feb 5 2010, 14:31)
Considering a number of the teams lodged their entries based on a £40million budget cap it's not surprising it's been difficult.
And a little something called 'time'.
QUOTE (wewantourdarbyback @ Feb 5 2010, 19:31)
Considering a number of the teams lodged their entries based on a £40million budget cap it's not surprising it's been difficult.
It makes no difference. At the end of the day, if you had a budget cap of 40 million, you would need 40 million to bring a car, regardless of how competitive, to the grid.
If you are unable to bring a car to the grid, budget cap or no budget cap, you would be unable.
This isn't about bringing a car that can compete with McLaren and Ferrari, this is about bringing a car full stop!!
Virgin have a budget below the 40 million cap, (tight arsed bastard that Branson is), yet they have a car. Obviously, it will be shit, but at least they have the car.
Campos and USF1 aren't able to bring a car at all, meaning that even if you had a 20 million cap, they would be unable.
How exactly would a budget cap help USF1 or Campos in creating a car? Obviously, it would help them in not being so far behind, but if Campos can't even pay Dallara, and USF1 can't even create a car, they could be 10 seconds or 10 minutes behind Ferrari. They still wouldn't be able to bring a car to the championship.
QUOTE (Slowinfastout @ Feb 5 2010, 15:05)
Here's the Racecar Engineering mag, USF1 article on page 10.. you can only zoom-in on 3 pages though. Have fun.
http://www.zinio.com/reader.jsp?issue=4161...nt&prev=sub
OT: sometimes it ain't a bad idea to clean up that filthy hard drive of yours and clear your internet cache, just sayin'...
http://www.zinio.com/reader.jsp?issue=4161...nt&prev=sub
OT: sometimes it ain't a bad idea to clean up that filthy hard drive of yours and clear your internet cache, just sayin'...
woah very nice detail there
the side shot is awesome !
http://wheelnutsjournal.typepad.com/.a/6a0...7769c2f5970c-pi
high rez shot of the side view of the chassis... found the image from craig scarborough's twitter
high rez shot of the side view of the chassis... found the image from craig scarborough's twitter
Ha I used up my zoom credits so far so great... interesting. Thanx.
QUOTE (pio!pio! @ Feb 5 2010, 16:46)
http://wheelnutsjournal.typepad.com/.a/6a0...7769c2f5970c-pi
high rez shot of the side view of the chassis... found the image from craig scarborough's twitter
high rez shot of the side view of the chassis... found the image from craig scarborough's twitter
Interesting exhaust packaging, looks like they almost forgot a piece.. You can also make out the internals in the gearbox as well. I never did realize that you are sitting so close to the ground, just like a racing kart. But honestly I always thought there would be more protection there due to the speeds, when compared to karts (well I guess some karts will top 150+).
QUOTE (pio!pio! @ Feb 5 2010, 23:46)
http://wheelnutsjournal.typepad.com/.a/6a0...7769c2f5970c-pi
high rez shot of the side view of the chassis... found the image from craig scarborough's twitter
high rez shot of the side view of the chassis... found the image from craig scarborough's twitter
They aren't seriously using bearings instead of flexures for the front suspension though? What do they think it is Champcar? Weren't primitive 90s F1 car the last to have bearings to attach the front suspension, and only for the lower front wishbones at that.
It MUST just be for the purposes of the drawings, or is that what a flexure looks like, armchair 100% non-expert here.
Surely that is a very early version. I wonder why they want to show people their wing profiles, shouldn't that be propriatory?
QUOTE (V8 Fireworks @ Feb 5 2010, 19:30)
They aren't seriously using bearings instead of flexures for the front suspension though? What do they think it is Champcar? Weren't primitive 90s F1 car the last to have bearings to attach the front suspension, and only for the lower front wishbones at that.
It MUST just be for the purposes of the drawings, or is that what a flexure looks like, armchair 100% non-expert here.
Surely that is a very early version. I wonder why they want to show people their wing profiles, shouldn't that be propriatory?
It MUST just be for the purposes of the drawings, or is that what a flexure looks like, armchair 100% non-expert here.
Surely that is a very early version. I wonder why they want to show people their wing profiles, shouldn't that be propriatory?
They are talking about having 'more suspension travel' than usual or something... sounded like a potential epic FAIL in the making to me.
The aero at F1 level is very sensitive, and IMO they could get bitten quite hard trying to be too clever with those things..
It'll be interesting to watch, if they make it (with that car, lol)..
QUOTE (Slowinfastout @ Feb 5 2010, 19:11)
They are talking about having 'more suspension travel' than usual or something... sounded like a potential epic FAIL in the making to me.
The aero at F1 level is very sensitive, and IMO they could get bitten quite hard trying to be too clever with those things..
It'll be interesting to watch, if they make it (with that car, lol)..
The aero at F1 level is very sensitive, and IMO they could get bitten quite hard trying to be too clever with those things..
It'll be interesting to watch, if they make it (with that car, lol)..
Did they do this just to be creative the first year while they work on the 2011 bits, or is this going to be the way to go for all the fuel on board? Honestly if they can make an F1 car drive like a Champcar think of the driver pool they can tap. Michael Andretti might have been able to drive the McLaren... lol
they dont have the years of experience and data of the current teams, having a wider range of setup options makes sense...
if you look at the rear wings, few years back you could see the adjustability in them, but now they just seem tobe set at one level, everything is so refined now for the top teams especialy.
if you look at the rear wings, few years back you could see the adjustability in them, but now they just seem tobe set at one level, everything is so refined now for the top teams especialy.
Let me start by saying that I'm a USF1 supporter. As an American I long to see a greater presence in F1 for the USA, and also hope to see F1 return here soon (thankfully I'm not far from Montreal). I also think that USF1 will make it to the grid in Bahrain and finish the season. What bothers me, however, is the drivers they have signed and/or are considering for this season. With guys like Anthony Davidson and Nick Heidfeld sitting idle, I think it's crazy to sign second-rate drivers from the junior formulas instead of proven drivers that know how to develop an F1 car. And they're not even American (well, in the USA sense at least). The guys they are looking at wouldn't even be a strong IRL driver lineup, never mind a competitive F1 lineup. I know it's all about money, but to me that makes it all the more important to get a solid driver in there to make sure you are going the right direction with the car. Mark my words, the new team that finishes last will not make it to the grid next year. With the drivers USF1 will race with, I'm afraid they will be the team that suffers this fate. I hope I'm wrong.
QUOTE (tkulla @ Feb 6 2010, 10:34)
Let me start by saying that I'm a USF1 supporter. As an American I long to see a greater presence in F1 for the USA, and also hope to see F1 return here soon (thankfully I'm not far from Montreal). I also think that USF1 will make it to the grid in Bahrain and finish the season. What bothers me, however, is the drivers they have signed and/or are considering for this season. With guys like Anthony Davidson and Nick Heidfeld sitting idle, I think it's crazy to sign second-rate drivers from the junior formulas instead of proven drivers that know how to develop an F1 car. And they're not even American (well, in the USA sense at least). The guys they are looking at wouldn't even be a strong IRL driver lineup, never mind a competitive F1 lineup. I know it's all about money, but to me that makes it all the more important to get a solid driver in there to make sure you are going the right direction with the car. Mark my words, the new team that finishes last will not make it to the grid next year. With the drivers USF1 will race with, I'm afraid they will be the team that suffers this fate. I hope I'm wrong.
To sum it up, the team needs money. They hire 2 drivers who can bring in as much as they can. Both have been in F1 cars before. Valles (if he signed), is Superleague Formula champion, whose cars are more powerful than GP2 cars. Granted, he wasn't a dominant as... Bourdais, but he had no money to bring. Heidfeld wanted to be payed money, along with a competitive ride. He'll get neither at USF1, so no chance at him. Davidson also admitted he was priced out of F1 with the new teams.
QUOTE (ezequiel @ Feb 5 2010, 19:15)
Indeed, Vallés was good, very consistent (helped by a car which didn't brake down very often, something that was no frequent for most drivers last year) but, as Davide Rigon in 2008, he took the title based in consistency rather thatn speed. He wasn't faster than Max Wissel, Antonio Pizzonia or Tristan Gommendy, and surely not faster that Bourdais and Guerrieri who, in that order, were the most impressive drivers in SLF last season, despite not racing the whole championship and, in Guerrieri's case, swithcing thru three different football teams (2 racing teams) in 5 rounds, which is never good for a driver, specially in a teams championship with no proper drivers championship like this. Summarizing, he's a good consistent driver, who tested for Spyker in the past and won't be a shame on a F1 car.
Personally I think that paydrivers are a good thing if they can help a team survive because as a fan I want to see as many cars as possible on the grid. Vallés might not be great but he is at least much better as drivers like Taki Inoue or Giovanni Lavaggi (who were a disgrace) in the past. I would love to see a driver like Davide Rigon in F1 in the future but he has problems securing sponsors but his driving style and pace really impressed me in 2008.
QUOTE (tkulla @ Feb 6 2010, 10:34)
Let me start by saying that I'm a USF1 supporter. As an American I long to see a greater presence in F1 for the USA, and also hope to see F1 return here soon (thankfully I'm not far from Montreal). I also think that USF1 will make it to the grid in Bahrain and finish the season. What bothers me, however, is the drivers they have signed and/or are considering for this season. With guys like Anthony Davidson and Nick Heidfeld sitting idle, I think it's crazy to sign second-rate drivers from the junior formulas instead of proven drivers that know how to develop an F1 car. And they're not even American (well, in the USA sense at least). The guys they are looking at wouldn't even be a strong IRL driver lineup, never mind a competitive F1 lineup. I know it's all about money, but to me that makes it all the more important to get a solid driver in there to make sure you are going the right direction with the car. Mark my words, the new team that finishes last will not make it to the grid next year. With the drivers USF1 will race with, I'm afraid they will be the team that suffers this fate. I hope I'm wrong.
True but a brand new team should definitely establish a financial foundation first before going after experienced technical minded drivers who they can afford.
No point in hiring Heidfeld or Davidson who might put the USF1 car on the right track only to go bankrupt by 2011.
QUOTE (Xaus @ Feb 6 2010, 22:44)
True but a brand new team should definitely establish a financial foundation first before going after experienced technical minded drivers who they can afford.
No point in hiring Heidfeld or Davidson who might put the USF1 car on the right track only to go bankrupt by 2011.
No point in hiring Heidfeld or Davidson who might put the USF1 car on the right track only to go bankrupt by 2011.
I agree.
The reason Manor were successful is because the FIA already knew that they had Virgin backing. They were able to get their finances in check first. Plus the car was already in development.
However some teams seem to have gone around this the wrong way. I dont blame USF1, I blame the FIA.
The selection process should have been confirmed much earlier. They weren't given enough time.
One thing that should be looked at is the fact that out of all of the teams that went up, there was only one team properly prepared and had was so low key that the media didn't know about it. They now have had an official shakedown, they will be at Jerez next week, and are already looking at aero updates.
No offence to Campos and USF1 but what the hell were the FIA thinking with their selection process? I want all of them on the grid as I think the "newbie" battle will be very interesting (understatement of the year). The problem is that Campos and USF1 have put themselves at a disadvantage because they can only afford pay drivers whereas Lotus and Virgin can have experienced F1 drivers.
Sorry for the rant but I'm pissed off with the FIA selection process. It should not have been we will have 3 new teams this year, especially when they had the FOTA fight going on. It should have been gradual.
QUOTE (Mandzipop @ Feb 6 2010, 23:36)
No offence to Campos and USF1 but what the hell were the FIA thinking with their selection process?
I seriously wonder whether they were chosen to dilute the British effect. Remember that only 33% of the new teams were British. Imagine if Prodrive and Lola were chosen instead; 3 British teams to go alongside an Anglocentric set (even Red Bull and Renault are British teams in disguise). Having said that, Euskadi surely, as a team that has built its own cars, might have been worth a look. But what the hey.
So according to the racecar engineering mag, The USF1 car is ready and built NOW.
WhEN ARE THEY LAUNCHING?
WhEN ARE THEY LAUNCHING?
QUOTE (Muzzinho @ Feb 7 2010, 05:47)
So according to the racecar engineering mag, The USF1 car is ready and built NOW.
WhEN ARE THEY LAUNCHING?
WhEN ARE THEY LAUNCHING?
They may simply have believed what Windbag told them back when that piece was written... the same way we should believe Windbag NOW when he says to Autosport that the car is late because USF1 has put a "massive amount of development time into it"...
It got hot in the kitchen for a while because of my posts, but the situation is now so chaotic and the lying taking place borders on complete fraud.
The car is easily 2 months away from being complete--and thats if they had the money and manpower to complete it and they gave decision making to the appropriate people.
Ken couldn't make payroll at the end of January and finally paid everyone 1/2 of what they were owed this past Monday, the 2nd half is promised this Monday--I'm not holding my breath. About 2/3rds of staff are showing up semi-regularly…who can blame them..there is little to work on.
Everything is hand to mouth -- all of the suppliers are on COD terms if they will supply at all. We haven't seen a Cosworth because they still owe 2.5M euros for them. We have no materials to turn into parts--but assumes that we'd have drawings to produce parts from Anderson Jr….another complete incompetent that barely got his High School diploma!
The boys in the carbon shop don't have the drawings or the tooling they need to produce the tub, let alone the entire car. The tub alone is weeks away from being able to send for FIA testing. At least they don't have to worry about making the suspension pieces--they are all going to be crafted from steel! No wheels, tires or brakes are in the shop, the transmission hasn't been seen either.
Poor Pechito…he shows up yesterday and there is no tub for him to sit in or to get a seat fitting in. He's told--"thats what happens when the money comes in late"
Like it's his fault…Peter and Ken are perhaps the worst managers F1 has ever seen. Peter and Ken convince themselves that they are brilliant businessmen, when they don't understand the basics of an org chart, chain of command, delegation of responsibility..not a single person knows their role, responsibility or job function and if they are--they aren't allowed to do it. The basics of management require that in order to make people accountable, they must have the authority and the financial ability to make decisions in their area of responsibility---Ken will have none of that!.
Ken makes every decision himself despite being surrounded by real F1 engineering, production and marketing & communications experts that would do a much better job if left to do it. When challenged on any decision or direction, your job is usually threatened or he leaves for Starbucks to avoid the confrontation. We were all told the team had 3 years funding and Ken professed he wanted to be, "the dumbest guy in the room", nothing could be further from the truth…the whole adventure has been built on one lie after another and tightly controlled by Ken and his flavor-of-the-day believers.
When he can't make payroll…he goes to Daytona to try and drum up money from unsuspecting gentleman racers who think they are "investing" in something…the dream has turned into a con job.
We think Bernie is on to them and Hurley must be at this point too. Any reasonable person could see how mis-managed the whole operation is.
Its all so sad--the opportunity lost, the dream investor scammed….. dream to nightmare due to extreme mismanagement and the egos of K & P.
If the cancer were removed, real management and investment installed-we could make a go of it--but not until Spain……at the earliest.
I can't wait to see what kind witch hunt transpires from this post! Screw them--getting the truth out will hopefully create some transparency to their scheme.
Others at the shop are talking too http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/sho...228&page=12
The car is easily 2 months away from being complete--and thats if they had the money and manpower to complete it and they gave decision making to the appropriate people.
Ken couldn't make payroll at the end of January and finally paid everyone 1/2 of what they were owed this past Monday, the 2nd half is promised this Monday--I'm not holding my breath. About 2/3rds of staff are showing up semi-regularly…who can blame them..there is little to work on.
Everything is hand to mouth -- all of the suppliers are on COD terms if they will supply at all. We haven't seen a Cosworth because they still owe 2.5M euros for them. We have no materials to turn into parts--but assumes that we'd have drawings to produce parts from Anderson Jr….another complete incompetent that barely got his High School diploma!
The boys in the carbon shop don't have the drawings or the tooling they need to produce the tub, let alone the entire car. The tub alone is weeks away from being able to send for FIA testing. At least they don't have to worry about making the suspension pieces--they are all going to be crafted from steel! No wheels, tires or brakes are in the shop, the transmission hasn't been seen either.
Poor Pechito…he shows up yesterday and there is no tub for him to sit in or to get a seat fitting in. He's told--"thats what happens when the money comes in late"
Like it's his fault…Peter and Ken are perhaps the worst managers F1 has ever seen. Peter and Ken convince themselves that they are brilliant businessmen, when they don't understand the basics of an org chart, chain of command, delegation of responsibility..not a single person knows their role, responsibility or job function and if they are--they aren't allowed to do it. The basics of management require that in order to make people accountable, they must have the authority and the financial ability to make decisions in their area of responsibility---Ken will have none of that!.
Ken makes every decision himself despite being surrounded by real F1 engineering, production and marketing & communications experts that would do a much better job if left to do it. When challenged on any decision or direction, your job is usually threatened or he leaves for Starbucks to avoid the confrontation. We were all told the team had 3 years funding and Ken professed he wanted to be, "the dumbest guy in the room", nothing could be further from the truth…the whole adventure has been built on one lie after another and tightly controlled by Ken and his flavor-of-the-day believers.
When he can't make payroll…he goes to Daytona to try and drum up money from unsuspecting gentleman racers who think they are "investing" in something…the dream has turned into a con job.
We think Bernie is on to them and Hurley must be at this point too. Any reasonable person could see how mis-managed the whole operation is.
Its all so sad--the opportunity lost, the dream investor scammed….. dream to nightmare due to extreme mismanagement and the egos of K & P.
If the cancer were removed, real management and investment installed-we could make a go of it--but not until Spain……at the earliest.
I can't wait to see what kind witch hunt transpires from this post! Screw them--getting the truth out will hopefully create some transparency to their scheme.
Others at the shop are talking too http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/sho...228&page=12
QUOTE (CompositeKen @ Feb 7 2010, 13:40)
It got hot in the kitchen for a while because of my posts, but the situation is now so chaotic and the lying taking place borders on complete fraud.
The car is easily 2 months away from being complete--and thats if they had the money and manpower to complete it and they gave decision making to the appropriate people.
Ken couldn't make payroll at the end of January and finally paid everyone 1/2 of what they were owed this past Monday, the 2nd half is promised this Monday--I'm not holding my breath. About 2/3rds of staff are showing up semi-regularly…who can blame them..there is little to work on.
Everything is hand to mouth -- all of the suppliers are on COD terms if they will supply at all. We haven't seen a Cosworth because they still owe 2.5M euros for them. We have no materials to turn into parts--but assumes that we'd have drawings to produce parts from Anderson Jr….another complete incompetent that barely got his High School diploma!
The boys in the carbon shop don't have the drawings or the tooling they need to produce the tub, let alone the entire car. The tub alone is weeks away from being able to send for FIA testing. At least they don't have to worry about making the suspension pieces--they are all going to be crafted from steel! No wheels, tires or brakes are in the shop, the transmission hasn't been seen either.
Poor Pechito…he shows up yesterday and there is no tub for him to sit in or to get a seat fitting in. He's told--"thats what happens when the money comes in late"
Like it's his fault…Peter and Ken are perhaps the worst managers F1 has ever seen. Peter and Ken convince themselves that they are brilliant businessmen, when they don't understand the basics of an org chart, chain of command, delegation of responsibility..not a single person knows their role, responsibility or job function and if they are--they aren't allowed to do it. The basics of management require that in order to make people accountable, they must have the authority and the financial ability to make decisions in their area of responsibility---Ken will have none of that!.
Ken makes every decision himself despite being surrounded by real F1 engineering, production and marketing & communications experts that would do a much better job if left to do it. When challenged on any decision or direction, your job is usually threatened or he leaves for Starbucks to avoid the confrontation. We were all told the team had 3 years funding and Ken professed he wanted to be, "the dumbest guy in the room", nothing could be further from the truth…the whole adventure has been built on one lie after another and tightly controlled by Ken and his flavor-of-the-day believers.
When he can't make payroll…he goes to Daytona to try and drum up money from unsuspecting gentleman racers who think they are "investing" in something…the dream has turned into a con job.
We think Bernie is on to them and Hurley must be at this point too. Any reasonable person could see how mis-managed the whole operation is.
Its all so sad--the opportunity lost, the dream investor scammed….. dream to nightmare due to extreme mismanagement and the egos of K & P.
If the cancer were removed, real management and investment installed-we could make a go of it--but not until Spain……at the earliest.
I can't wait to see what kind witch hunt transpires from this post! Screw them--getting the truth out will hopefully create some transparency to their scheme.
Others at the shop are talking too http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/sho...228&page=12
The car is easily 2 months away from being complete--and thats if they had the money and manpower to complete it and they gave decision making to the appropriate people.
Ken couldn't make payroll at the end of January and finally paid everyone 1/2 of what they were owed this past Monday, the 2nd half is promised this Monday--I'm not holding my breath. About 2/3rds of staff are showing up semi-regularly…who can blame them..there is little to work on.
Everything is hand to mouth -- all of the suppliers are on COD terms if they will supply at all. We haven't seen a Cosworth because they still owe 2.5M euros for them. We have no materials to turn into parts--but assumes that we'd have drawings to produce parts from Anderson Jr….another complete incompetent that barely got his High School diploma!
The boys in the carbon shop don't have the drawings or the tooling they need to produce the tub, let alone the entire car. The tub alone is weeks away from being able to send for FIA testing. At least they don't have to worry about making the suspension pieces--they are all going to be crafted from steel! No wheels, tires or brakes are in the shop, the transmission hasn't been seen either.
Poor Pechito…he shows up yesterday and there is no tub for him to sit in or to get a seat fitting in. He's told--"thats what happens when the money comes in late"
Like it's his fault…Peter and Ken are perhaps the worst managers F1 has ever seen. Peter and Ken convince themselves that they are brilliant businessmen, when they don't understand the basics of an org chart, chain of command, delegation of responsibility..not a single person knows their role, responsibility or job function and if they are--they aren't allowed to do it. The basics of management require that in order to make people accountable, they must have the authority and the financial ability to make decisions in their area of responsibility---Ken will have none of that!.
Ken makes every decision himself despite being surrounded by real F1 engineering, production and marketing & communications experts that would do a much better job if left to do it. When challenged on any decision or direction, your job is usually threatened or he leaves for Starbucks to avoid the confrontation. We were all told the team had 3 years funding and Ken professed he wanted to be, "the dumbest guy in the room", nothing could be further from the truth…the whole adventure has been built on one lie after another and tightly controlled by Ken and his flavor-of-the-day believers.
When he can't make payroll…he goes to Daytona to try and drum up money from unsuspecting gentleman racers who think they are "investing" in something…the dream has turned into a con job.
We think Bernie is on to them and Hurley must be at this point too. Any reasonable person could see how mis-managed the whole operation is.
Its all so sad--the opportunity lost, the dream investor scammed….. dream to nightmare due to extreme mismanagement and the egos of K & P.
If the cancer were removed, real management and investment installed-we could make a go of it--but not until Spain……at the earliest.
I can't wait to see what kind witch hunt transpires from this post! Screw them--getting the truth out will hopefully create some transparency to their scheme.
Others at the shop are talking too http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/sho...228&page=12
USF1 are done
Why is this surprising?
QUOTE (CompositeKen @ Feb 7 2010, 07:40)
I can't wait to see what kind witch hunt transpires from this post!
I was almost believing what you were saying until I read this part. ^^^
Hm......
Certainly an elaborate post for a made-up story. Why not a letter to autosport magazine under a "name with-held" by line?
It is a shame if they don't get to the race. Surely the driver Lopez brings the money needed to finish the car!?
Race teams without money is not unheard of, of course. But of course it is much less expensive to attempt to qualify some old stock car in some NASCAR race...
It is a shame if they don't get to the race. Surely the driver Lopez brings the money needed to finish the car!?
Race teams without money is not unheard of, of course. But of course it is much less expensive to attempt to qualify some old stock car in some NASCAR race...
QUOTE (Muzzinho @ Feb 7 2010, 14:45)
USF1 are done
But having followed the poll, the percent of people who believe USF1 will make the grid has grown during about last two weeks. It hovered in the region of 54.5% for quite a long but now it's more like 56.5%.
QUOTE (peroa @ Feb 7 2010, 07:52)
Why is this surprising?
My thoughts exactly..
The steel suspension pieces are a bit hard to swallow though.. lol
QUOTE (CompositeKen @ Feb 7 2010, 12:40)
It got hot in the kitchen for a while because of my posts, but the situation is now so chaotic and the lying taking place borders on complete fraud.
The car is easily 2 months away from being complete--and thats if they had the money and manpower to complete it and they gave decision making to the appropriate people.
Ken couldn't make payroll at the end of January and finally paid everyone 1/2 of what they were owed this past Monday, the 2nd half is promised this Monday--I'm not holding my breath. About 2/3rds of staff are showing up semi-regularly…who can blame them..there is little to work on.
...
I can't wait to see what kind witch hunt transpires from this post! Screw them--getting the truth out will hopefully create some transparency to their scheme.
Others at the shop are talking too http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/sho...228&page=12
The car is easily 2 months away from being complete--and thats if they had the money and manpower to complete it and they gave decision making to the appropriate people.
Ken couldn't make payroll at the end of January and finally paid everyone 1/2 of what they were owed this past Monday, the 2nd half is promised this Monday--I'm not holding my breath. About 2/3rds of staff are showing up semi-regularly…who can blame them..there is little to work on.
...
I can't wait to see what kind witch hunt transpires from this post! Screw them--getting the truth out will hopefully create some transparency to their scheme.
Others at the shop are talking too http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/sho...228&page=12
Well, CompositeKen its certainly interesting reading your posts.
While I've been sceptical, you make me seem like an optimist!
Your previous posts stretched the credibility of some here.
Windsor has said that the car would test in February.
I've not seen anything to make that really plausible.
Your post says no engine, gearbox, shocks, wheels, undertray or wings. At all, as of this weekend.
All the publicity video and pix that I've seen show a place that is un-naturally quiet -- rather than rushing to finalise things.
I've been around many many factories and businesses. USF1 just doesn't look like it ought to.
Its much easier for management to PROVE you wrong than for you to PROVE you are right.
So, unless and until I see some proof that what you are saying is delusional, I'll certainly give you some credence.
Williams, Manor/Virgin and likely Lotus have Cosworth-powered running cars at this point. (We will know VERY soon about the Lotus, they have committed to a launch date.) I think its generally understood that Campos is a trainwreck, though Dallara probably have completed a car for them, but I suspect that because of the finances, Dallara have not invested in materials and labour for enough parts to enable a two-car team to go racing tomorrow.
I think USF1 are way late AND short of cash.
Currently there's a significant question mark hanging over Force India's finances as well.
Right now, there's absolutely NO WAY that I expect to see a full grid in Bahrain - likely not even if Stefan gets in.
QUOTE (CompositeKen @ Feb 7 2010, 12:40)
It got hot in the kitchen for a while because of my posts, but the situation is now so chaotic and the lying taking place borders on complete fraud.
The car is easily 2 months away from being complete--and thats if they had the money and manpower to complete it and they gave decision making to the appropriate people.
Ken couldn't make payroll at the end of January and finally paid everyone 1/2 of what they were owed this past Monday, the 2nd half is promised this Monday--I'm not holding my breath. About 2/3rds of staff are showing up semi-regularly…who can blame them..there is little to work on.
Everything is hand to mouth -- all of the suppliers are on COD terms if they will supply at all. We haven't seen a Cosworth because they still owe 2.5M euros for them. We have no materials to turn into parts--but assumes that we'd have drawings to produce parts from Anderson Jr….another complete incompetent that barely got his High School diploma!
The boys in the carbon shop don't have the drawings or the tooling they need to produce the tub, let alone the entire car. The tub alone is weeks away from being able to send for FIA testing. At least they don't have to worry about making the suspension pieces--they are all going to be crafted from steel! No wheels, tires or brakes are in the shop, the transmission hasn't been seen either.
Poor Pechito…he shows up yesterday and there is no tub for him to sit in or to get a seat fitting in. He's told--"thats what happens when the money comes in late"
Like it's his fault…Peter and Ken are perhaps the worst managers F1 has ever seen. Peter and Ken convince themselves that they are brilliant businessmen, when they don't understand the basics of an org chart, chain of command, delegation of responsibility..not a single person knows their role, responsibility or job function and if they are--they aren't allowed to do it. The basics of management require that in order to make people accountable, they must have the authority and the financial ability to make decisions in their area of responsibility---Ken will have none of that!.
Ken makes every decision himself despite being surrounded by real F1 engineering, production and marketing & communications experts that would do a much better job if left to do it. When challenged on any decision or direction, your job is usually threatened or he leaves for Starbucks to avoid the confrontation. We were all told the team had 3 years funding and Ken professed he wanted to be, "the dumbest guy in the room", nothing could be further from the truth…the whole adventure has been built on one lie after another and tightly controlled by Ken and his flavor-of-the-day believers.
When he can't make payroll…he goes to Daytona to try and drum up money from unsuspecting gentleman racers who think they are "investing" in something…the dream has turned into a con job.
We think Bernie is on to them and Hurley must be at this point too. Any reasonable person could see how mis-managed the whole operation is.
Its all so sad--the opportunity lost, the dream investor scammed….. dream to nightmare due to extreme mismanagement and the egos of K & P.
If the cancer were removed, real management and investment installed-we could make a go of it--but not until Spain……at the earliest.
I can't wait to see what kind witch hunt transpires from this post! Screw them--getting the truth out will hopefully create some transparency to their scheme.
Others at the shop are talking too http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/sho...228&page=12
The car is easily 2 months away from being complete--and thats if they had the money and manpower to complete it and they gave decision making to the appropriate people.
Ken couldn't make payroll at the end of January and finally paid everyone 1/2 of what they were owed this past Monday, the 2nd half is promised this Monday--I'm not holding my breath. About 2/3rds of staff are showing up semi-regularly…who can blame them..there is little to work on.
Everything is hand to mouth -- all of the suppliers are on COD terms if they will supply at all. We haven't seen a Cosworth because they still owe 2.5M euros for them. We have no materials to turn into parts--but assumes that we'd have drawings to produce parts from Anderson Jr….another complete incompetent that barely got his High School diploma!
The boys in the carbon shop don't have the drawings or the tooling they need to produce the tub, let alone the entire car. The tub alone is weeks away from being able to send for FIA testing. At least they don't have to worry about making the suspension pieces--they are all going to be crafted from steel! No wheels, tires or brakes are in the shop, the transmission hasn't been seen either.
Poor Pechito…he shows up yesterday and there is no tub for him to sit in or to get a seat fitting in. He's told--"thats what happens when the money comes in late"
Like it's his fault…Peter and Ken are perhaps the worst managers F1 has ever seen. Peter and Ken convince themselves that they are brilliant businessmen, when they don't understand the basics of an org chart, chain of command, delegation of responsibility..not a single person knows their role, responsibility or job function and if they are--they aren't allowed to do it. The basics of management require that in order to make people accountable, they must have the authority and the financial ability to make decisions in their area of responsibility---Ken will have none of that!.
Ken makes every decision himself despite being surrounded by real F1 engineering, production and marketing & communications experts that would do a much better job if left to do it. When challenged on any decision or direction, your job is usually threatened or he leaves for Starbucks to avoid the confrontation. We were all told the team had 3 years funding and Ken professed he wanted to be, "the dumbest guy in the room", nothing could be further from the truth…the whole adventure has been built on one lie after another and tightly controlled by Ken and his flavor-of-the-day believers.
When he can't make payroll…he goes to Daytona to try and drum up money from unsuspecting gentleman racers who think they are "investing" in something…the dream has turned into a con job.
We think Bernie is on to them and Hurley must be at this point too. Any reasonable person could see how mis-managed the whole operation is.
Its all so sad--the opportunity lost, the dream investor scammed….. dream to nightmare due to extreme mismanagement and the egos of K & P.
If the cancer were removed, real management and investment installed-we could make a go of it--but not until Spain……at the earliest.
I can't wait to see what kind witch hunt transpires from this post! Screw them--getting the truth out will hopefully create some transparency to their scheme.
Others at the shop are talking too http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/sho...228&page=12
Hurley should take over the whole operation, sack Anderson and Windsor and bring in some professionals
I totally believe this post, its far too detailed to be a made up post
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.