CK's first post is what gives it away.. The entire post is a rant against Ken Anderson and how incompetent he is, he then goes in deail to describe the failure of previous projects . Now the question everyone should ask is why would you take a job when you know all this from your future employer. ?

Allow me to help out.....

man this seems like such a mess. I don't understand though - why go through the effort of signing lopez and meeting with the Argentinean president if you know your car doesn't exist?

I think that CK's post is credible, but at the same time I am also very impressed with how far the team has come and I have a feeling that it could be turned around without too much effort if things are as CK says. They seem to have the right ideas and have got all the major things in place to be a credible F1 team, so obviously the key to their problems is one of finance mismanagement and lack of proper planning.

They recently hired John Anderson as Team Manager, and that guy seems to know what he's doing unlike Ken and Peter so maybe he can turn things around if the other two can source up some cash.

It would be a real shame to see all the hard work that went into USF1 amount to nothing, and i'm sure the investors would agree.

Anderson and Windsor have crowed on about 'low cost F1' but the truth is that F1 is an incredibly expensive sport and that it is only possible to get up and running if you make every dollar count especially on USF1s budget. At the very least they should have been far more aggressive in gaining sponsors and advertising, considering F1s huge market and the prices USF1 could offer for advertising to major US corporations it would be a steal for them to get heaps of sponsoring especially companies that are heavily involved already in NASCAR and also not securing drivers with their usual array of sponsorship until this late in the game was an incredibly stupid move as it would have given the team millions extra in cash in which to make it to Bahrain. It is well known Anderson and Windsor have been doing most of the marketing and advertising legwork themselves which is totally stupid, as they could have gotten a professional in and delegated it and gotten far better results.

The next area you have to wonder about is the car. They have been working on the car for a long time, even longer than the other outfits and it is a disgrace if the thing is not fired up by the end of February. You also have to wonder if their 'innovative' approaches actually only increased the workload rather than decreased it, a new startups job should have been making the most conventional design possible and then improving on these foundations. Things like transverse gearboxes are in my mind stupid decisions to take when they could have made an agreement to get a longitudinal gearbox from another team which would have saved them time and money in the long run. Another thing you have to wonder is that do USF1 really have the resources to be able to continually update their car throughout the season if they even haven't finished building their car yet.

Another dangerous sign to me is that there is no sign that their European base of operations is up and running yet. To me this means that USF1 most likely don't even have the means to attend and run at Grand Prix's even if FOM and FIA are footing most of the bill trucks have to be bought, so do motorhomes and trailers and all the logistical problems of running an F1 team. One has to even wonder if they have even built together a pit crew that is capable of competing at an F1 level.

Anyways, regardless of what things are really like at USF1, the fact that the speculation has come this far goes to show what a sorry state affairs things are. In the 'youtube age of F1' as Windsor put it there seems to be an incredible lack of transparency at the organization and leaving lingering doubts about the teams fitness to compete in F1 is such a basic mistake to make from supposed 'professionals' that it defies belief.

Not to mention the rumor of PW being in the UK now to sign Valles.

Also has anyone seen video of the RB6 yet, does it really exist, will they make the grid? Red Bull should really release a press kit with pictures now, I want to know if they will be able to test before Bahrain! (It works both ways you see, we know nothing of the RB6 so far - however I fully expect the car to be trick and maybe take it all this year). I have always thought that when Newey gets involved it is not long before he designs a monster of a car.

My only issue with CK, is that I have seen all to often people doing things like this in other forums. Claiming to have seen IP's before even the press and then when the actual product is released that one poster that caused a stir was just a troll. Time will tell, and that time is coming much closer for sure.

There is a link now to this thread from the USF1 facebook page as well, they are pointing to CK's post.

On a complete side note, Derek Daly was at the factory with his son Connor - any chance he could be a test driver or put in the junior team?

Well, if nothing else, we have on our hands a case that goes against the saying "Any publicity is good publicity".

Unfortunate!

i wish i'd read all this before i voted in the poll , i wonder how many people would vote yes now the thread has developed this way

That's not really a valid comparison, RBR have decades of F1 experience and a multi billionaire pouring much of his fortune into the team.

Zhuk makes a good point about the European base. No information suggests they have the infrastructure in place to support an F1 team in Europe at the moment, although it would be a lot less effort than getting their home base up and running.

Depends I suppose on whether the plan was to make everything in the US and fly it to Europe, for updates etc....wouldn't that work out more expensive eventually than simply creating it at your European base? And if so, then why base yourself in the US anyway....

Quite. They'd all still be using 5 year olds to make your clothes and paying off scientists to claim that cigarettes aren't cancerous.

The imperative for all staff to be "on message" (i.e. do not reveal any "damaging" material publicly) is one of the key means by which corporations gain scope to bullshit everyone - not saying that they all take advantage of it, but the very nature of such a practice leaves today's capitalist society open to systematic abuse.

Ha! Wow, this is the first time in a while that I've jumped into a thread and had absolutely no idea what was going on. Strange stuff...

What is gong on?

DOnno if this adds up to some points...

Amongst 2010 threads the posting took this much pages till today.

Mclaren 102
USF1 78
Renaut 61
Merc 56
Ferrari 47
Campos 47
Sauber 37
Virgin 27
Stefan 17
Williams 13
RBR 5
STR 5
Lotus 4
FI 2

Once more I think this is not a relevant reason as to why CK posted his say, but on the other hands, for a team who has yet to score publicities, thus sponsor, sensational attention serves its purpose, with the condition that the result comes out positive. I mean, Only, when USF1 do comes out to the public with a running car, then they could score a serious sponsor or two at the day...

The car is under construction, just isn't ready to test or race. Since months I have the impression, US F1 is delaying in its schedule, royally. But I want them to be on the grid!

Let's not forget there will be 3 races allowed to miss, so US F1 must start to race in China at least.

Sorry Engel, but I think you are mistaken here. Check out this article:

http://www.compositesworld.com/articles/fo...rack-speed.aspx

Can they not pay some of the established team(s) and piggyback their kit with them? Or perhaps they could hire a completely-outside-of-F1 partner and outsource their logistics, too. I suppose anything is possible at this stage.


Presumably they felt it would be better for a team named USF1 to be based in US. Unlike Force India which operates from old Jordan premises in UK. In fact, USF1's entire shtick is that they are the only all american team competing in F1, that's how they had been planning to raise sponsorship.

Now I'm not saying this IS going to happen... but I am just saying that...

If two USF1 cars do roll up on the grid in Bahran this thread will be worth quite a laugh.

Not saying that it's going to happen (or saying that they won't show up) but just saying it makes for an enticing "told ya so!" scenario... can't wait until Bahrain!

hmm, perhaps there is too much smoke for their not to be a bit of fire...

its possible Windsor and cos approach was to fake it until they made it... but if CompositeKen's post is true, then it seems they are heading for an epic fail.

It makes Virgin GPs performance so far all the more impressive...

It seems we will be seeing StefanGP afterall.... btw USF1 n Campos, im thinkin atleast one project will fail

big shame Epsilon, Prodrive and co were rejected for this garbage....well be dealing with Mosleys mess for a while

We don't know if Epsilon or Prodrive would have done any better. Their entry propsals must have been quite weak if they did have the ability to make it and were not chosen. Anyway, if US and Campos don't make it, there'll be at least one open slot for 2011 which could perhaps be filled by one of these teams.

They probably weren't aligned with the right stars ...

For the "European" teams 10 of the 19 races are flyaway races, effectively meaning that they will have to fly their parts outside of Europe to 10 of the races. And for most of the European races the distance to the UK F1 factories is so far away that it's not a question of just poppin over the road to the track with new parts anyway... I believe that it's not really a big drawback to have the factory in the US compared to the UK (if all F1 races had been in the UK or just down the road, then it would have been a major drawback).

For US F1, their Spanish base will be closer to most European races and for the 10 flyaway races it's still airfreight from either Europe or the US, so not really any big difference there.

I believe the teams reasoning for basing thmeselves in Charlotte is the cluster of racing engineering companies and knowledge present in that area. And the lower cost of operating in the US probably makes up for a bit of the added freight cost.

Whether it turns out to work for them is another question that won't be answered until a good few races down the road (if they make it that is, we have CompositeKen back and conspiracies right left and center here at the moment. So what is true, partly true, partly true but exaggerated or false is kind of hard to tell right now...)

Also, haven't USF1 bought some old trucks from another F1 team early on? or did that just happen in my head?

If that post is true.. goodbye USf1

Bought Brawn's old trucks a long time ago.

As pointed out earlier, it would be weird for Dieter Rencken to have his doubts originating on multiple shoddy stories from second-hand sources, same goes for Bernie Ecclestone.

From my point of view the CompositeKen stuff is in another category.. ie much less reliable.

I think at this point it's pretty clear they're up shit's creek, hence the increasing focus about the provision of being able to miss 3 races, etc..

USF1 member on forum : "The car is easily 2 months away from being complete. Pechito came to the factory, but there's no tub yet."

http://twitter.com/stephanesamson

He is just repeating what CompositeKen wrote on this forum then???

Man, that would be extremely dodgy reporting if he took this forum as fact.

Like it or not, F1 bulletin boards are about as reliable as Wikipedia - often a good place to get an overview of the argument, but never a place to take statements of fact!

Unless some cross-checking was done? (doubt it, as a journo would go to town on the thing and not dish out a vague tweet)

Still I'm pretty sure CompositeKen is the real deal though... it's not like Peter Windsor is more reliable or anything

As had been pointed out, there main composite guy at USF1 is named Ken.

Surely he wouldn't come on here and shitbag his own team in such an obvious way which could be easily exposed...

DO we hear Peter this boss saying on the Grid in bahrain:

Oh yes it has become a public knowledge that how difficult it was to build our USF1 car from scratch in USA, where formula one is a total adventure, but we have done it well, and I am happy to show this off in public today.


Only to end in Martin shouting:


Oh bugger USF1 is out of race even before they have started off the line, what a shame...

Well, who knows?

It's not like he's said something especially damaging... only estimates, random facts and opinion.. plus if what he says is true he's not shitbagging the team, he's doing truthful USF1 PR update for free ;)

edit: You see, willbuxton has replied and already the facts are being twisted.. and by that I mean fiction is already being created after what CompositeKen has said being misreported, lol!

Over the course of the winter I've grown quite fond of USF1.

If they make the grid it will be a real triumph against the odds.

Here's hoping it happens.

I like the idea of having a 'different' car and team in F1.. I think the upper management is shoddy though.

I know it's just silly little videos but to me Anderson Jr really didn't sound like he could/should lead the other guys, who in contrast seemed like properly decent blokes.

..and of course don't get me started on Windsor lol..

You're seriously underestimating Wikipedia, or overestimating bulletin boards, dude. I don't think this info by CK would remain in Wikipedia very long.

We really have no way to know whether CK is 100% correct, biased, or just making stuff up. Nevertheless, Virgin launch (and Lotus launch tomorrow) make one realize they actually are late.

I have read all the different views about CompositeKen and the debate over if it's right or not, to say what he says, if he is a USF1 employee.

To add my opinion to this, at one of the places I have been working we have had employees (plural) that have done similar things to what CompositeKen has been saying about the team and it's inner workings. They have been fired and the courts have ruled in favour of the employer in very similar cases. I expect that in the US, with less labour protection AFAIK, it would be even easier to fire someone based on things like this.

And just to add a little perspective on how these things are regulated in different places. A quote from the rules for this forum:



So, even though you might disagree with your employer, it's generally not accepted to go public with all sorts of information about them.

And on a final note; CompositeKen is just a few letters away from CompostKen....

Which has been rubbished by Will Buxton: http://twitter.com/willbuxton/status/8805496697

I know which party I believe...

"US F1 is going through its final crash tests and several reports suggest the chassis is at a very advanced stage."

http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/8320.html

But again, if it is widely known within the team that there's no way the car would be ready for Bahrain, then it should be expected that there should be some reactions when Windsor says exactly the opposite. If the team is that poorly led, it'll come out one way or the other.

I still think you guys are too easily impressed.. in sports sometimes a player makes a public outburst when things aren't smooth enough, sometimes in an official capacity, sometimes not.. sometimes there are consequences, sometimes not..

I see it like that.. if true of course. Time will tell.

Was it?



Was it an actual monocoque or just the mock up?

So, is the tub in europe for final crash tests, or was it at the factory over the weekend for Pechito's visit?

I think people are confusing mock-ups, partial crash tests, and pretty much everything.

Even Ferrari only has one real complete 2010 chassis...

According to the ESPN report It is Bernie who says that He think that USF1 and Campos are GOING to ASK for missing three races. according to their commercial agreements three can be permitted....

I was merely stating my own experiences and was not debating if what he said was true, false or if he was just a troll. And there is a slight difference between a "player" (in this case that would be the driver) blurting out his disappointment and a ordinary factory employee doing the same. We have all heard several drivers making more or less well adviced outbursts (Felipe Massa during the off season springs to mind...), but how often have we heard employees at Honda, Sauber or Toyota making public complaints about the inner workings of a team on the brink of falling off the face of the earth?



Is it accepted fact that USF1 have a mock up tub? Where do we have this information from?



Do we know that the team has just one tub? They might have one that has been in Europe for crash testing and another one being assembled?

Since "people" are confusing pretty much everything, please enlighten us

I said 'I think', didn't I?

And I also asked a question.

In any case you'll only believe what Windsor tells you, or whatever the hell you want to believe, won't you?

My point earlier was... look at the story morph from what CompositeKen has actually said, then what this stephanesamson dude reported, and what Will Buxton has concluded. It isn't consistent.

Whether this is a fraud or not, we have too many conflicting reports...

Depends on what you think can be seen in this official video.
http://www.usgpe.com/news/in-detail-electr...ing-system.html

I think you misunderstand me. I am asking the questions as well. Does the team have a mock up tub, does the team have one or several tubs, have they sendt one for crash testing etc?

When people refer to a mock up tub, I am curious as to how they know that (because I haven't seen any information on this)... It's not about what Windsor says or not. As far as I know, he hasn't said anything about this at all, or?

I'm also a bit surprised at being labelled a Windsor fan for asking basically the same questions or asking for sources to some of the claims (like the mock up tub).

And in the US F1 Team - Introduction to the team video from before Christmas..

now we know why all the other teams granted them all the extra straightline tests.


They knew they would not be used.

Well I believe this is a tub, not a mock up. But I have no other reasons to say so apart from the cost of making a mock up tub from carbonfiber when they could have made it cheaper from a cheaper material. For a team with limited finances it doesn't make sense to me that they make the single largest carbonfibre piece of the car as just a mock up...

That's just my view on it. I'm curious to know why others believe this is a mock up tub (honest question, not a dig at anybody (seems I need to make my intentions clear ))

In the video, you can see the mock-up tub (or at least the bottom half of it) lying in the corner of the room. It's the "tub" that Nick Craw was photographed with. It's got that Supportive "Keel" under the nose.



For what it's worth, I think that the tub they are using to spec the loom is the real thing, but a lot of the bulkheads and fittings are mocked up. The roll hoop looks to be an FDM prototype, and obviously, it's not bonded together.