I'm also a bit surprised at being labelled a Windsor fan for asking basically the same questions or asking for sources to some of the claims (like the mock up tub).

Will Buxton: "Well thats a lie. Was in Charlotte 2 weeks ago and saw the tub myself. No impact structures mind you. Just an empty tub."

The boys in the carbon shop don't have the drawings or the tooling they need to produce the tub, let alone the entire car. The tub alone is weeks away from being able to send for FIA testing. At least they don't have to worry about making the suspension pieces--they are all going to be crafted from steel! No wheels, tires or brakes are in the shop, the transmission hasn't been seen either.

Poor Pechito…he shows up yesterday and there is no tub for him to sit in or to get a seat fitting in. He's told--"thats what happens when the money comes in late"

Depends on what you think can be seen in this official video.
http://www.usgpe.com/news/in-detail-electr...ing-system.html

While we dont know when that video was shot i hope it is not that recently.
As the guys doing the wireing explained they were just doing the mock up to take back to the uk so they could do the drawings to make the real version.
How long will that take to do?

Just to clarify, when you refer to mock up in your post, I understood that the guy was talking about a mock up of the electrical systems and then make the real version of the electrical system (not the tub).

Right?

Just to clarify, when you refer to mock up in your post, I understood that the guy was talking about a mock up of the electrical systems and then make the real version of the electrical system (not the tub).

Right?

In the video, you can see the mock-up tub (or at least the bottom half of it) lying in the corner of the room. It's the "tub" that Nick Craw was photographed with. It's got that Supportive "Keel" under the nose.



For what it's worth, I think that the tub they are using to spec the loom is the real thing, but a lot of the bulkheads and fittings are mocked up. The roll hoop looks to be an FDM prototype, and obviously, it's not bonded together.

Like it or not, F1 bulletin boards are about as reliable as Wikipedia - often a good place to get an overview of the argument, but never a place to take statements of fact!

How can we explain the appearance of a genuine carbonfibre tub, mock up or not, with CK's statements about lack of drawings and tooling

Maybe there is one tub (let's call it mock up ) that is used for doing that kind of stuff, and will be the one that get's roughed up in the proper FIA crash test.. and there's another one which hopefully would be the first race chassis (let's call that one THE tub)?

IMSA: USF1 can announce drivers all day long, but they will not make it to the first race.

Let's see -- the latest I have heard:

No engine -- late on payments to Cosworth

No shocks --- no payment made (company knows Anderson well - no $$ no shocks)

No undertray -- has not been started --takes over 2 weeks to be completed (need more than one!!)

The front wing and tub has passed the crash test (third try on the tub) -but it really does not matter at this time.

I bet Anderson will "disappear" in the next 30-45 days. He has a BIG history of starting and then leaving.

Hopefully we will not have to hear his (and Windsor's BS) anymore about USF1.

I wonder if SPEED is holding his position open????

Anyone need any toasters??

IMSA: My sources regarding the shocks and undertray are direct with the people involved. As for the crash testing, thanks Riley...I was told that they "passed" something but as you say it prob was not the FIA.

As for my statements about Anderson disappearing...well that is what he does and has done MANY times in the past.

He has skipped out in the middle of the night as well as when time get tough he has left the shop while others put the Falcon together with FAKE parts prior to the press conference showing the Falcon IndyCar with Tony George.

As for Windsor admantly telling everyone they will be at the first race. Well...he tells potential investors that USF1 will RECEIVE $40 MILLION from FOA for racing in 2010!!!! I have the documents.

There guys are embarrasssing!!!

I would love to see a team from the US but when I heard it was Anderson and Windsor - I was very disappointed.

IMSA: Sorry dude, my contacts are good, honest racers. Charlotte is a small community and suppliers (and all others) talk. How can they (or me)be "short sided"??? In ANY business you have to be PAID for your goods or services. Many have given Anderson too many chances. Do you work for free?? Racing is a business not a hobby from many.

Hopefully this is the last we will see of Anderson.

Well, for one thing, wasn't it reported that the undertray had to be cured elsewhere or something? Wouldn't fit USF1 autoclave..

Not sure on this one, but I remember reading something like that..

The boys in the carbon shop don't have the drawings or the tooling they need to produce the tub, let alone the entire car. The tub alone is weeks away from being able to send for FIA testing. At least they don't have to worry about making the suspension pieces--they are all going to be crafted from steel! No wheels, tires or brakes are in the shop, the transmission hasn't been seen either.

Well, undertray (or floor) aside. Can we agree that what we see in the video is a carbonfibre tub (mock up or not, that's not the point here)?

Someone must have made that tub, right? To make that tub that someone would need both drawings and tooling, right?

And also note how he writes "The boys in the carbon shop" as if he is talking of someone else in the factory, isn't his username CompositeKen

And the only point I'm debating here is CK's statements about the tub, not the teams progress, crash tests or likelyhood of making it to Bahrain. There are many conflicting reports and it's kind of hard to know what is just trolling and what is based on genuine information.

However, I am doubting CompositeKen's statements for the time being as he is clearly wrong about the tub and drawings etc.

Looking forward to hear different views on this and preparing to stand corrected...

Well, undertray (or floor) aside. Can we agree that what we see in the video is a carbonfibre tub (mock up or not, that's not the point here)?

Someone must have made that tub, right? To make that tub that someone would need both drawings and tooling, right?

How can that be compatible with this:



And also note how he writes "The boys in the carbon shop" as if he is talking of someone else in the factory, isn't his username CompositeKen

Well, maybe it's the entire point as well. THE tub is different from the mock up?



How is he clearly wrong? You're just jumping to conclusions like Buxton did..

My logic is based on what we see in the video and on pictures. As I said I believe what we see is a real tub, based on that CK must be wrong as proved by the evidence present in the video...

WTF people? CK said that the tube is weeks away from being able to send for FIA testing and other articles/quotes seem to confirm that - the tube is there, but not ready for FIA tests, crash structure is not there yet etc. which of course doesn't mean it has to be true. But so far nothing other than people who somehow menaged to read 'tube is not ready for FIA test' as 'there is no tube' contradicts what CK said at all.

The boys in the carbon shop don't have the drawings or the tooling they need to produce the tub, let alone the entire car. The tub alone is weeks away from being able to send for FIA testing. At least they don't have to worry about making the suspension pieces--they are all going to be crafted from steel! No wheels, tires or brakes are in the shop, the transmission hasn't been seen either.

Are you seriously suggesting that the team has made drawings and toolings to make a mock up tub in carbonfibre, but not drawings for the real tub

We saw a tube, but it's not ready to pass the FIA tests yet. Where exactly is CK wrong?

The boys in the carbon shop don't have the drawings or the tooling they need to produce the tub, let alone the entire car. The tub alone is weeks away from being able to send for FIA testing. At least they don't have to worry about making the suspension pieces--they are all going to be crafted from steel! No wheels, tires or brakes are in the shop, the transmission hasn't been seen either.

We saw a tube, but it's not ready to pass the FIA tests yet. Where exactly is CK wrong?

Jesus H. Christ lol...

look at listerine's post... it's pretty much what I've been saying for 2 pages now. THE tub, which Pechito needs in order to have a proper seat fitting, might be different/more complete than the mock up, or whatever you want to call it..

Some drawings and tooling might be missing to have THE tub, but then again it might not, we don't know for sure yet. (but you have already established that YOU know, so who am I to try and jam it down your throat..)

Each chassis, which measures approximately 60 inches long by 24 inches wide by 24 inches high (152 cm by 61 cm by 61 cm) is designed and manufactured in two halves, top and bottom, which are then bonded together to create the complete structure. Although it is not an aerodynamic element, the chassis supports the wings, body panels and spoilers that minimize drag, functions as the driver cockpit, provides the engine mount structure and is the structural center of the vehicle around which all the other components are oriented. Therefore, it must meet FIA strength and safety requirements, allowing the driver to walk away from or at least survive crashes that might otherwise be fatal. It also must bear the entire weight of the engine and all of the loads associated with it.

The main component part of an F1 car is the chassis, or carbon fiber composite tub (sometimes referred to as a survival cell). Before being brought to the assembly area, a composite tub will have passed through the composite manufacturing department, where it was made, cured in an autoclave, trimmed, and cleaned. In addition, the various mounting holes will have been precision drilled and tapped.

In the assembly area the tub will be placed on an assembly jig. These jigs, or fixtures, will locate the tub precisely to facilitate accurate measurements during the assembly process.

Are you suggesting what we saw in that video (mostly schematics of electrical system) are all the that drawings needed to produce the tub? Cause otherwise there is nothing in the video that contradicts CK post at all. Which again, doesn't make it true but it seems like you're jumping to conclusions way too soon.


edit: I got it right this time, TB(f)G ;)

I was not refferring to the DRAWINGS in the video, but that large black thing they where putting those wires onto... (That's called a tub in my dictionary and to make that they must have had some drawings )

It got hot in the kitchen for a while because of my posts, but the situation is now so chaotic and the lying taking place borders on complete fraud.

The car is easily 2 months away from being complete--and thats if they had the money and manpower to complete it and they gave decision making to the appropriate people.
Ken couldn't make payroll at the end of January and finally paid everyone 1/2 of what they were owed this past Monday, the 2nd half is promised this Monday--I'm not holding my breath. About 2/3rds of staff are showing up semi-regularly…who can blame them..there is little to work on.

Everything is hand to mouth -- all of the suppliers are on COD terms if they will supply at all. We haven't seen a Cosworth because they still owe 2.5M euros for them. We have no materials to turn into parts--but assumes that we'd have drawings to produce parts from Anderson Jr….another complete incompetent that barely got his High School diploma!

The boys in the carbon shop don't have the drawings or the tooling they need to produce the tub, let alone the entire car. The tub alone is weeks away from being able to send for FIA testing. At least they don't have to worry about making the suspension pieces--they are all going to be crafted from steel! No wheels, tires or brakes are in the shop, the transmission hasn't been seen either.

Poor Pechito…he shows up yesterday and there is no tub for him to sit in or to get a seat fitting in. He's told--"thats what happens when the money comes in late"

Like it's his fault…Peter and Ken are perhaps the worst managers F1 has ever seen. Peter and Ken convince themselves that they are brilliant businessmen, when they don't understand the basics of an org chart, chain of command, delegation of responsibility..not a single person knows their role, responsibility or job function and if they are--they aren't allowed to do it. The basics of management require that in order to make people accountable, they must have the authority and the financial ability to make decisions in their area of responsibility---Ken will have none of that!.

Ken makes every decision himself despite being surrounded by real F1 engineering, production and marketing & communications experts that would do a much better job if left to do it. When challenged on any decision or direction, your job is usually threatened or he leaves for Starbucks to avoid the confrontation. We were all told the team had 3 years funding and Ken professed he wanted to be, "the dumbest guy in the room", nothing could be further from the truth…the whole adventure has been built on one lie after another and tightly controlled by Ken and his flavor-of-the-day believers.

When he can't make payroll…he goes to Daytona to try and drum up money from unsuspecting gentleman racers who think they are "investing" in something…the dream has turned into a con job.

We think Bernie is on to them and Hurley must be at this point too. Any reasonable person could see how mis-managed the whole operation is.

Its all so sad--the opportunity lost, the dream investor scammed….. dream to nightmare due to extreme mismanagement and the egos of K & P.

If the cancer were removed, real management and investment installed-we could make a go of it--but not until Spain……at the earliest.

I can't wait to see what kind witch hunt transpires from this post! Screw them--getting the truth out will hopefully create some transparency to their scheme.

Others at the shop are talking too http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/sho...228&page=12

The team’s first carbon fiber tub is in place on a chassis plate with a mock-up Cosworth engine and a gearbox casing. But it’s being used to lay out the plumbing and electricals. It’s also been used for publicity photos (yet to be released) of visiting drivers (yet to be officially named).
The team members, some of them recently hired, are working flat out in all departments, especially in the composite shop. The man in charge of composites, Kevin Bialas, is composed and relaxed. But his staff has a backlog of lay-up work to do. The undertray, meanwhile, has been farmed out to nearby Crawford Composites and its larger autoclave.
Crucial pieces of the suspension and gearbox are done – but await more pieces required for final assembly. So the computer-aided machine shop continues to churn out lightweight, high-strength parts.

DFV, if Pechito doesn't have pedals and a steering column, and all the stuff holding those things in place, then does he have a tub to have a seat fitting in?

You see, you force me to go into more details than needed, ie I'm forced to make up shit, to make you understand my point of view..

You're bringing up the dictionary and what not to cast doubts on what some guy has said, while there are actually many possible, and reasonable ways to interpret those words without turning them into lies. You say he's clearly saying things he is actually NOT saying. Simples.

Old news ... still .... http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-...-is-on-at-usf1/



If you 're suggesting they 'll bond that tub up and use it for FIA crash testing (and racing) fine, Personally I m not convinced. When you outsource everything (meaning all the various subsystems) inevitably you will have to make changes to your own design to accommodate things other people design and build. Even if it's just an access hole.

I don't know WHICH tub they will bond up and crash test. But F1 tubs are made of two halves (top and bottom) that are bonded together.

I don't think they have outsourced the design of components, just the manufacturing. Otherwise it would be interesting to assmble the car...

Their own video suggests you 're wrong ... namely the electrical guys designing the car's electrical subsystem ;)

EDIT
PS a complete ready to be tested/raced tub is bonded in one piece, not in pieces on the floor a week before they are supposed to be in France crashtesting it

The sky darkens finances over Charlotte. It seems that the team USF1 either late fee on the Cosworth engines. A late payment of almost 6 months.
When USF1 has signed its memorandum of agreement with Cosworth in May 2009, it forced the American team signed an advance "signature" of 1.3 million euros. Without benefit of recovering his bet, but to validate a serious project then. USF1, like others (Campos, Lotus and Virgin) have signed this Agreement. But since ...
Since then, the debt accumulates. It seems that since the last 6 months, no bills have been paid a total of 2.5 million euros, according to the echoes.
No more then the other side of the Atlantic where the most alarming news came in chunks no end ...

It sure seems that USF1 has problems.
But "Composite Ken" is someone's joke. A fabricated story from someone who loves the attention and to sit and make things up.

It sure seems that USF1 has problems.
But "Composite Ken" is someone's joke. A fabricated story from someone who loves the attention and to sit and make things up.

korzeniow: can you fix that source link, not working here... (btw the €2.5m figure is pretty close to the troll figure )

In the video, you can see the mock-up tub (or at least the bottom half of it) lying in the corner of the room. It's the "tub" that Nick Craw was photographed with. It's got that Supportive "Keel" under the nose.



For what it's worth, I think that the tub they are using to spec the loom is the real thing, but a lot of the bulkheads and fittings are mocked up. The roll hoop looks to be an FDM prototype, and obviously, it's not bonded together.

We can't know if Composite Ken is for real, and Frankly I think it's daft the way we are dissecting the exact language of his post. The best thing we can do with what he has written is to use it as pointers to things to look for elsewhere. But even if every word is true, we still won't know he's who he says he is.