USGPE = Best prepared of the N00Bs next year.

USGPE = The worst driver line up in 23 years. Summerton and Pechito Lopez dont cut any sort of quality mustard. not even cheap stuff.

Are they seriously having Jonathan Summerton and Jose Maria Lopez?

Well, Windsor stated at the start that the whole point of the youtube reality F1 shite was that they would witness the "whole setting-up-a-Formula-One-team-thing". He said that it would be from the first design through to end result.

What do we have? A picture of 4 people looking at pictures on a screen.

I equate Windsor to Gillett. They both really want to be involved in F1, but are gambling on winning the lottery.

In Gillett's case, he did so at the expense of the British GP, (and as such the whole British motorsports industry).

In Windsor's case, he did so at the expense of Sauber, (and as such the several hundred employees at Hinwill).

Both are living in dream worlds. USF1 do not have the sponsorship of youtube. Youtube is owned by Google, and all USF1 have is the business backing of Chad Hurley, who doesn't own youtube.

What Chad Hurley has pledged is his business knowledge to the team. I will say again, Youtube are not USF1 sponsors. Chad Hurley is a business advisor to USF1, and he doesn't own google, who own youtube.

USF1 will not appear at the first 2010 GP, unless they win the lottery.

What are you on about? What does USF1 have anything to do with Sauber?

This is fatally flawed by the fact Windsor never tried to buy Sauber although I do agree he is a fantasist

The fault of Sauber and BWM to not get a grid spot has nothing to do with USF1. They had the opportunity to sign the agreement and they chose not. Lotus was the team that was given that spot.

As for YouTube, no one from USF1 has ever stated that they were going to be a sponsor. That is forum speculation that never had any basis in reality. Hurley personally has invested in USF1 as well as taking a business development role. The reality is that parts are being made in Charlotte, people have been employed to build a car. Prior to the GP on Sunday there will be a tour on SpeedTV of the facility.

I think a lot of people, particularly the European media and F1 fans don't realize how many high level motorsport vendors are available in the Charlotte. Everything need, literally, to build an F1 car can be hired in the Charlotte (and to a lesser extent the Indianapolis area) from tunnels to shakers to sims to CFD to composite fabrication. If they can design a car that will be able to run more than back of the pack is another story but they can certainly build one with quality materials and workmanship using an open market supplier model.

Well, they had thier entry granted before BMW Sauber withdrew.

Where did you get that piece of incorrect information.

No way Summerton goes from Indy Lights to F1. FIA would never allow it. Lopez, I doubt it. I'd think it will be decided after the bulk of the moves are announced with whomever can't get a seat and would be willing to drive for cheap. It won't be an American, those that could qualify for a Superlicense aren't interested.

USF1 are dreaming in the same way Gillett dreamt. They are preventing Sauber from progressing by pretending that they will make the grid, (just like Gillett pretended he would make the grid).

They should just admit they have no funding, no staff, and no hope. Then Sauber can take a real F1 team forward for 2010.

EDIT: Of course, that would piss Williams off no end. At the moment, there are 4 teams that they can beat. If Sauber took the place of USF1, there would only be 3 teams that they could beat.

Wow, you are really stretching your reasoning there.

What prevents Sauber from being on the grid?

1. 3 New Teams

2. Failing to do their paperwork on time.

3. Resistance against a 13th team.


Even if you think USF1 won't make the grid, it is not their fault for Sauber not making the grid.

So this USF1 thing is all a wet dream of Windsor?

Yep

I hate to say it but you are an idiot.

I just don't understand the so called fans who criticise people like Peter Windsor or Ken Anderson. Those some fans complained for years that there weren't enough cars. Now there will be new teams and they do nothing but attacking those projects. People like Windsor deserve respect for even trying to set-up a team. Even if it fails at least he tried and I do believe his project is serious and I do believe they can make it to the grid. Their effort at least deserves support from us.

Exactly, but there are other reasons at work here.

I really think people are bias against USF1 for some reason, what about the other two teams, why is no one attacking them?

The only thing I'm worried about, is the lack of support from Americans with USF1. It's not a popular sport there, and the fanbase is very small.

+1
If you don't think they're for real, read the latest news. USF1 is in. For real. You can't just bullshit about something like this. Way too much on the line.

Here is a bit from last week in USA Today (or McPaper as we call it over here... ) detailing the the so called "new media" approach of USF1.



http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/formu...F1-hurley_N.htm

+2

Plus he's still claiming it was Sutil's fault 100%

Your hatred for Williams really affects your judgement. They are actually ahead of your beloved Sauber BMW in this years WCC (and that is with a Williams team that has only ONE driver scoring points - What if Williams had two good drivers? Rosberg has scored 34,5 and Kubica and Heidfeld only 17 and 15 each...). If Williams just wanted one more team they could beat (as they are doing this year) then they would welcome Sauber.

Maybe checking facts would help...????

It's just your opinion that USF1 wont make the grid. Since we don't know all the details about the new teams, maybe one of the other teams are more likely to miss the grid in 2010. Maybe we should just hold all the new teams responsible for the total mess BMW have left the Sauber team in?

If a team got a place on the grid there is no obligation for them to step back once one of the established teams fails to sign the CA. BMW left it to the FIA to search for a new team to fill the vacant spot. Only after the vacant spot was filled did BMW announce the sale to the mysterious Quadbak group.

How can this be USF1's fault? (and I'm not interested in your opinion that USF1 is not going to be on the grid as the reason because we don't KNOW that).

All these gimmicks, they could spend that money on the car and hiring decent drivers, can have all the extravagant HD videos in the world but if the car is 3 secs a lap off the pace its a waste of time

So if USF1 does not provide media service that's bad and now it's bad when they plan to do so...

Building a team is a long term project and the media part is probably seen as a long term investment to build a fan base and create a image for the team.

What a joke of a post! If you want to blame anyone for Sauber's possible/probably demise, then blame BMW. They had the opportunity to sell the team back to its more than capable founder and they decided that they could get more money else-where. Williams fights hard, but fair, to protect its own staff. That is why they wouldn't allow BMW to take more control in their team - an excellent decision if you ask me.

What I've learned from this thread is that Windsor is an a-hole, the usa is a collective a-hole, and people on this board love to be a-holes.

Therefore, I would like to apologize, as an american, for all of americans, for everything that has happened ever, including Windsor.

Now that I've settled that issue, my opinion is that USF1 will be on the grid. I think they have a non-traditional business model that will probably cause them some unforeseeable problems. Whether those probs are deal-breakers, I don't know, but they could be.

On a side note, who gave them the right to be "US" F1? First of all, this isn't A1GP. Second, they aren't sponsored by the govt. It's just a little off to me. Anyway, I hope they are respectable. I hope manor and campos do well too. I have enjoyed force india's success. I have a hard time understanding why some people hate the little teams.

Well said!

Right. The Internet is just a gimmick. A passing fad. Like pockets.

(With acknowledgement to a popular ad campaign in the USA)

Be successful and the fans will come, they will be successful by doing well on the TRACK that should be the first priority, no one will back something that will get a good right up on F1rejects.com in a few years time they will back something that gets points so they should spend every $ on getting USF1 successful on the track

There's a gem of brilliance. Are there any teams that DON'T spend "every $" trying to be successful on the track?

USF1 seemingly

The hundreds of hours of HD video would cost millions of $

Great when you are Ferrari or McLaren but a waste of money when you are at the back of the grid like USF1 will be

Do you remember when Benetton entered F1? Did they do it the same way as everyone else? Did they do a lot of media jippos and introduced more entertainment in the paddock?

The answer to the last two of those questions is: No and Yes!

So it took Benetton a few years to become a race winning team, then a few more years to become multiple WCC and then a few more years again to be considered solid enough that Renault bought the team!

Doing it a different way seemed to work for Benetton and USF1 deserves credit for thinking outside of the box.

But it seems that whatever USF1 does, it's the wrong thing in some peoples opinion. No PR, they are not delivering the goods. Promising more PR, they should rather spend it on the car. If they decide to paint the car blue and white I'm sure thats bad as well...

There's no end of speculation on who might wind up at this team or that but when it comes to USF1 it's :

(cricket chirp)

(tumble weed rolls by)

(bored cricket yawn)

Seems the odds are no driver in Abu Dhabi will be in their car. Fisi, maybe?

Don't worry, Australians and Brits will openly join you in apologising for him as well.

I do blame BMW. BMW are scum. I don't give a shit about BMW, I do, however give a shit about the Sauber team.

In this case, it is about a team like USF1 who are gearing their entire operation on gaining US funding that they don't have.

Much like Gillet with Donnington.

Gillett could have possibly destroyed the British GP through blind hope that a backer will appear.

USF1 are in the same boat. They continue to say "yeah we will be ready", but have nothing. They have the founder of a loss making site who managed to sell it to google for a rediculous sum as a business advisor, but no actual funding.

Maybe he will be able to advise them as to how to sell a loss making venture to somebody for a huge sum.

Whatever, I just find in incredulous that a team like USF1 with no more than an idea and a flag can be given a place ahead of a team who finished in the top 3 for the last couple of years, and has been present in F1 for the last 16 years.

As for Williams, well, in their last year with BMW, they scored twice the points of this year, (which is their best since leaving BMW, and their last year with BMW was their worst).

FOTA have all given their support to Sauber, with the exception of Williams. Ferrari and McLaren aren't scared of Sauber, but Williams are.

USF1 will not race in 2010, but so long as they keep up the facade of pretending to do so, it leaves Sauber less likely to compete, which is a team less in F1.

IMHO, Sauber is more deserving of a spot than any team bar McLaren, Ferrari, Brawn, Renault and Red Bull.

Nah, that's Lewis Hamilton

Jarno there was a very straight forward procedure for BMW to secure their position in next years championship and they ignored it. USF1 being granted a slot has nothing whatsoever to do with BMW not being granted one.

You sound like a f*king broken record, give it a rest.
Tell me, are you just anti-US or anti-Windsor?
Didn't hear you say anything about Campos or Manor or Lotus...? You think they will have a better chance on the grid, aren't they holding the same sweet spot that you want Sauber to have??
You should get mad about BMW and Sauber, they f*ked up!!

Did it hurt to pull all that stuff out of your ass?

What happened to Sauber/BMW happened after USF1 got a spot. So they should now by tossed out because Sauber is more deserving in some people's opinion? I think it is sad that Sauber is in the cold as well, but attacking the new teams that legitimately signed up is not the way to go about getting a grid slot.

Uh, what about Chad Hurley, the guy who invented YouTube and is worth $1.65bn and is being one of the team's backers? Do you really think he just said "Yeah, I'll lend my name to it ... but you're not seeing a dime."?


USF1 have nothing? They've released preliminary CFD drawings and shown photos of their facilities in operation. They're establishing a forward base in Spain and have a recruitment drive going.


When USF1 were accepted to the grid, BMW Sauber were still a part of it. The new teams were announced at the British Grand Prix, while Sauber proclaimed that they were withdrawing before the Hungarian Grand Prix, so how can you claim USF1 was given a place ahead of Sauber? In addition, the Powers That Be at BMW said they didn't want to compete anymore. They consciously made that decision; it's not as if they were turfed out by USF1.


FOTA have not given their support to Sauber. They do not like the presence of QADBAK unless QADBAK start disclosing some information (but they did pass the FA Cup's requirements for team ownership - they just value their privacy), and they feel that fourteen teams is too many logistically. QADBAK's appearance on the 2010 grid required unanimous approval from all teams, and Williams were the only ones who voted no. This co-incided with their rejoining FOTA, and may have been a condition of their return that they follow FOTA's instructions to demonstrate their loyalty. Even if that's just me reading too much into it, Sir Frank has the right to vote however he chooses.

You're acting as if Williams are to blame - they're not. If you want to point fingers, point at BMW's board. They chose not to sign the Concorde Agreement where if they had signed it, they would then be free to sell the team on. They consciously chose to let their hold on he team expire.

As for Ferrari and McLaren supporting them, you're right in saying Ferrari aren't afraid of them - but Ferrari only supply customer engines to teams who won't threaten them. It's a good engine, but why do you think Toro Rosso are the only ones carrying it? It's because Brawn, Red Bull and all the other customer teams they could have supplied are giving them one hell of a run for their money. Did you know that - assuming Hamilton wins - 2010 will be the first time Ferrari carry numbers greater than five and six since 1995? It's been their worst year since the system of allocating numbers based on championship finishing positions was introduced.

As for McLaren, they've said they'll support a fourteenth team - but only if it's Sauber. In that part, you're right again. And once again, you're only half-right. Because if you'd bothered to pay attention to the article where Martin Whitmarsh said McLaren would support Sauber re-joining the grid, it was also mentioned that the FIA is currently trying to broker a deal where Sauber can re-join, despie teams professing a desire to veto them. Wiliams are the only hold-outs, and their grievance stems from a logistical point of view, not a fear of Sauber. Campos also voed against Sauber, but Norbert Haug was said to be livid about it, and with a little strategially-placed pressure from FOTA, they'll change their minds.

By the way, with faulty facts and misguided opinions like these I'd say tha USF1 would do a better job of running a team than you would.


USF1 will make it. They've done more than at least two of the other teams and possibly more than all of them. Your dislike of them stems from the fact that Sauber didn't make the grid, as opposed to basing it on evidence they will not make it, of which there is none. You're convinced it's a scam because you want it to be a scam.


Well, gee, that makes them sixth of ten, which is one of the reasons why BMW withdrew in the first place: they just weren't competitive. If cars were powered by their worth to the grid, Sauber would still be in he same position they are now.

Your opinion is not nearly as humble as you make it out to be. In fact, "humble" is one of the last words I'd use to decribe it.

During SpeedTV's pre-race coverage at Abu Dhabi they are going to have a piece on USF1 and it will be interesting to see if we learn anything new or if it will just be a rehash of what we already know. I'm hoping they have some recognizable parts completed to show us their progress so far, I think that's the only way some of these skeptics will even think of changing their minds.

Well, they expect to have a rolling chassis either in November or by November ... not really sure which one Peter Winsor said, but even if they've missed their own deadline, they'd still be ahead of the others.

1) Benetton took over an existing team (Toleman) with an existing infrastructure and an existing factory fully equipped to produce race cars, USF1 is a start up that has to do everything from scratch

2) Benetton could afford some handy drivers and quite big names, USF1 are scraping round at Has Beens R Us and looking at dodgy South Americans with a few £

3) Also at the time Benetton were one of the biggest clothing companies in the world and a global name with very deep pockets and a charismatic frontman, this is the work of a ChampCar mechanic and a journalist so again your argument is flawed

You can't rightly go criticisng Windsor when you're so oblivious as to his expeirence. A journalist he might be, but he was a manager for Williams and, I believe, Ferrari.

He was in charge of sponsorship for Williams and ran the Guildford factory for Ferrari, both were 20 odd years ago though, he has done nothing but journalism in the last 20 years but what I meant was MONEY wise, Luciano Benetton and Flavio Briatore were incredibly rich, I am sure Peter Windsor must have 2 or 3 million tucked away from what Haymarket and Speed pay him likewise Ken Anderson but their combined wealth would be less than the interest Luciano or Flav would earn a year THAT is what I meant, and before you say Chad Hurley he is not bankrolling the entire thing by any means

Windsor is so up to tune with modern sponsorship that he got in touch with the wrong guy at Disney and wrecked a good sponsorship deal

Campos Mega already has a roling chassis.
USGPE dont have it yet

CAMPOS MEGA

Let me try again. I was only trying to say that history shows that some teams choose a different route and was using Benetton as an example. I did not in any way say that USF1 and Benetton was the same. I am completely aware that Benetton took over the Toleman team. But maybe you should join USF1 and give them some good advise, as it seems that they are totally incompetent in your view.

My point was also that it seems that quite a few people on here is changing their arguments with regards to the USF1 team failing. First it's wrong when they don't have lot's of PR activities going, then it's wrong when they announce their intended PR plans (as they should rather spend money on the car).

I wonder if it really doesn't matter what USF1 does, it will be considered wrong anyway by some of the posters here...

If they have a rolling chassis in November that's probably a bad thing as well because then they should rather have used more time on the drawing board before making a rolling chassis...

I think they deserve credit for trying to think outside of the box. It might work or it might not. But there is really no evidence to back up your claims about them not being on the grid and holding them responsible for Saubers predicament is beyond ludicrous. As it stands there is 4 new teams admitted for next year, one cannot completely rule out that one or more of the new teams won't make it to the grid next year. They might very well make it all, and there is no evidence in the public at the moment that suggests otherwise. Unless you know something about USF1 that you haven't shared with us?

At no point have I held them responsible for Sauber's predicament, you must have me confused with someone else

I believe USF1 will make it to the grid next season but I believe they will seriously struggle, Manor are the only new F1 team I have faith in although Lotus have good money behind them so I see Campos and USF1 fighting for worst team next season

He's anti-williams as well. In one thread he tried to argue that Sauber was more important to the history of the sport than Williams and then held Frank Williams as solely resposible for Sauber not being on the grid next year. I think he's probaby an angsty 15 year old boy with nothing better to do, leave him too it

Ooopppsss, Sorry about that

Reminds self to check facts before replying

On this side of the pond what you call a gimmick is what we call marketing. Over here HD has been the standard for broadcast for the last few years with earlier this year broadcasters ceasing to broadcast over the air in SD and SD have disappeared from stores. Your assertion that this would cost millions shows that you are not familiar with either the market in the US or how affordable the technology has become. For less than US$20,000 it's possible to get 2 pro quality HDV camcorders and a full blown professional level editing suite with Final Cut Studio. I'd be surprised if they spend a couple hundred grand on it including the equipment and labor. It's been said that Hurley invested US$20 mil due largely in part to how they will be marketing. The circle in which Hurley travels is keen in this type of marketing and if that 200k investment can net another 50 mil or so in sponsorship I'd say that's a pretty good deal.

The marketing plan and business model of the constructor might be new in F1 circles but many successful businesses in the US have used similar strategies particularly in the high tech sector.