No, I don't think so, though you can be black flagged for being too slow. How slow is too slow though!

We can start to vote if USF1 is more like Andrea Moda or Life F1. F1Rejects.com titles Andrea Moda as "The most idiotic and farcical F1 team entry ever" but there is strong possibility they will need to change that soon. And pay attention how Andrea Moda's existence came to the end.

Not too up on the rules, are you.

It has to be said that there has been a marked difference between the two, so far, real new F1 teams and those two 'possible' new teams, in terms of the media output. Both Virgin Racing (formerly Manor GP) and Lotus F1 have regularly updated the media; they have both been very active through their own PR machinery. The other two...well, they've been very quiet, haven't they? The very fact that both Virgin Racing and Lotus F1 have active and professional PR departments show the most basic understanding that they are professional, serious organisations.

I think Campos has been slightly unlucky. He has a racing pedigree, and he undertook to purchase his car from an existing (and successful) constructor. Unfortunately, Spain has been particularly hard-hit by the global recession. But USF1? They decide to build, from scratch, their own car.... and in the middle of the US. Penske, Shadow and VPJ all understood the need for a European base when they tackled F1, as did Toyota and Honda.

Makes one wonder about the bidding process run by the FIA, doesn't it, in choosing the teams that would be entering F1... perhaps they should have chsen more teams than were available, and let them whittle themselves down... or perhaps just be a little more thoughtful as regards the business plans put in place... Are we seriously to believe that this (USF1) was a more robust business model than, for example, Prodrive's?

When I first heard the stories about Stefan GP I dismissed them, but they seem a more serious entity than USF1...

Ah? I thought Virgin have been the less active prior to their launch...

Comparatively, USF1 has been very active I thought.. though a lot of it was responding to the Bernie attacks..

Overall I'm afraid that what you said there doesn't ring true at all to me!

Why, it is a world championship.

The English have every right to note that Brazil has one of the cruddiest cricket teams in world cricket. And the US every right to note that the English baseball team is rubbish. However, it is a world sport or not this F1 though!?

Look, this isn't a matter of saying "britain's great". I'm not denigrating the US's industrial or technological abilities; this isn't some patriotic chauvinistic point I'm trying to make. Yes it is a World Championship, but ask yoursel why two large corporations, with great industrial and technological backup in their own country, saw the sense in basing their F1 operations in Europe?

Just thinking: If US F1 say 'right, we can't make it to Bahrain', do you think it'd be realistic for them to aim for China? Or is this basically dead as dead can be?

I think they simply can't say that even if they know already (either way, they ought to know at this point)...

I agree with this

The fact that the chief designer of the car is the son of the technical director says it all, the fact Ken chose nepotism as opposed to F1 experience shows the quality of the outfit, then there is all the lavish promises Windsor made that have not come close to making reality

I don't believe it is a scam/fraud but it is the most unprofessionally run outfit I can recall in the last 20 odd years if not ever

With all due respect, I don't think it's fair to compare this sorry excuse for a formula One effort with Andrea Moda.
See, that team had a chassis, Judd engines and a couple of drivers, one of them even put his car on the grid once.

USF1 will go down in the books as a not even half-arsed attempt, utterly unfathomable how they got this far.

Raz

Everyone knows Life is the worst F1 team ever. That will likely never change.

USF1 would go down as just another team full of lies, shady deals, broken promises, and million dollar lawsuits.

Don't confuse a team that was horribly mismanaged with teams that collapsed before they arrived.

Of course this is still hypothetical at this point...

Thursday... we'll know the truth once and for all.

I would say that Andrea Moda is a close contender for Life. Although they did qualify in Monaco (a miraculous effort by Roberto Moreno, no-one still understands how he managed that) they were the biggest disgrace. The owner was a criminal with maffia connections and they even sabotaged Perry McCarthy's car once and on another occasion they send McCarthy on purpose with rain tyres on a dry track. At least Life didn't sabotage the car of it's drivers. Of course we could also mention teams like FIRST who never even showed up (Gabriele Tarquini was supposed to drive for them in '89, he got Streiff's place at AGS after his accident instead) as the worst team.

Not to make excuses, but I just remembered that in Spanish speaking countries, Sunday is the last day of the week. So theoretically, USF1 can name their second driver tomorrow, and still be in Windbag's time frame. Especially if the driver is Valles.

They did post info on a Sunday for JML as well, so anything is still possible. My leading theory is that the team stuck the Ken, CK, and PW in the second Autoclave and told them they would open it when the car was built. And now Dr. Warren is running the team in the interim.

Intentionally or otherwise, they are not aiming for Bahrain, that is for certain. Otherwise they would not be leaving it this late.



It could be motivated by the need to cut costs. You can request your son (or dad) to make a compromise/sacrifice that any other employee will not agree to.

I doubt Windsor is that bothered if USF1 fails, F1Racing and Speed would hire him again so he wouldn't have his lifestyle affected by USF1 failing, the ones I feel sorry for are the guys on the factory floor and people who have relocated to Charlotte

True, but those people on the floor can also walk across the street and get hired. Plenty of teams in that area that probably have a spot or two open, and USF1 is not huge. So I do hope the best for the employees, that this does not hurt their families if they have to go look for another team.

Put it like that and you may point out the fact that one of the managers lacks the proper motivation.
Which quite possibly is a realistic note.

They have to make Bahrain or lose the entry. It's not like they intentionally pushed it back this late. It's late because it's late. Slow to get the sponsor money, under estimating the enormity of the task.

@ the poster suggesting the problems are due to not having a European base, how would building the car in Europe solved the what appear to be the primary issues with the team, cash flow and inexperienced management? Ironic that Toyota and Honda were used as example. How'd that overseas base work out for them? They've left the sport. Realistically there are only 3 teams with any sort of consistent branding and/or operation. The rest are remnants of other teams. The world is as small as ever. It's about what you do and how you run the business, not where.

It's not easy to get get a job in that area right now. With the consolidation of teams many positions were eliminated. While there are several new start up teams in all 3 touring series, most aren't full time jobs.

Windsor's ****ed isn't he?

That's very true, and coming back to Indy area isn't any better, lots of experience looking for work in this town.

"It was the economy..."

"The rules were finalized far too late..."

"Some partners didn't step up when they were supposed to...."


And so on.

That is one silver lining if USF1 fails.

SpeedTV's already hired his replacement, so hopefully he won't be back anyway!

Hmmm... I'll ask again... why do you believe that both Toyota and Honda chose to base their teams in Europe? You think they don't have the capability of building their cars in Japan? Their failures were more to do with corporate structure than anything else, and what they didn't have was a problem producing a working F1 car. Where's the backing coming from in the US? There's a whole industry based around the high spec motorsport industry in, particularly, the UK. That's why Renault haven't moved their facilities, why an Austrian company, a Malaysian company, a German company have their racing bases in the UK.

My point was, though, that the very fact that they chose to do this in the US ought to have raised questions about the seriousness of their plans. Of course the problems are a little deeper than where they set themselves up, but that decision in itself was, perhaps, a clue to the levels of planning involved. Where did they claim their finance was coming from when they made their bid to the FIA?

Might be all worth it after all then!!

Good points, yet Yamaha and Honda manufacture world championship winning motorcycles in Japan. So why should there any different between a 2 wheeled prototype and a 4 wheeled prototype?

Ha ha

Clearly there is a difference. I don't think that the UK has any claim to specialisation in terms of two wheel prototypes. And, given that Honda is one of those manufacturers who build their bikes very successfully in Japan - that they chose the UK as their base for the production of their F1 car says something of their understanding of this requirement....

For the most part they all bought an existing team that had mature, stable operations already in place. Why move them and have to relocate staff and equipment plus the downtime to relocate. A wind tunnel, even a scale tunnel isn't that easy to move. Toyota already had a European motorsport operation, they just added F1. In spite of well over a billion dollars invested how did they do? Good thing they were in Europe or they might not have done so well. How's that European base thing working out for Campos? How did it work out for Minardi, Jordan, Jaguar. If you have a map or a globe handy you may wish to check the distances and travel times between Japan and Europe and North Carolina and Europe.

Word from Indianapolis is that it's tougher there. When Champ Car was shuttering and the drag teams consolidating they could at least move to Charlotte and find some work. No more though. It's a rough time to be in that part of the biz.

Basically it's the top of the know-how pyramid that's missing in US... of course I'm talking about F1 specifically.

I guess if you would zap experienced F1 team deciders in Charlotte, they'd have a much easier time making a good use of the money, the pair of hands available in the area, the suppliers, etc.. and come up with something that works.

It made me smile when USF1 basically said they wouldn't follow the pack, come up with their own solutions, and generally go their own way... as if they'd teach the others how it's done..

They'll mainly blame the failure on the financial aspect, of course, hehe..

Neither USF1 or Campos, or the FIA for that matter, have the state of the economies to use as an excuse. The situation has not changed, and where it has, any good businessman or analyst would have foreseen the potential difficulties faced in such an enviroment. Where the problem realy is is that neither outfit had sufficient plans in place or backers from the beginning. Both were very naive in thinking that sponsors would jump out of thin air, because they were both apparently national representives in a global sport.

I think that's a pretty fair assessment. I'm sure there are people that with time could learn it, but certainly the depth of experience is an issue. Of course one difference is that USF1 was started by a team principal that not only wanted to own the team but design the car as well. I can't think of any others in modern times that were high end designers that started teams. It's like if you wanted to start a bakery and be the cake maker, you wouldn't want to hire a big name baker. Now, if you couldn't bake a good cake there would be problems. A great many of the small business in this country are started by people that are good at what they do, but not so good at running a business.

For USF1 I think it could be more of an issue with execution and operation combined with cash flow issues. You can have the best plan but if you can't execute it or have other issues that compound it you could be toast. It's pretty easy to second guess on a forum and I doubt many people have been the principal owner/operators of any business, let alone a business of that scale with the stakes of failure so high. When you have to be the guy that sits in the seat and makes those decisions it's a whole new ballgame. Regardless of what happens I would guess we'll see a much more humble Anderson and Windsor.

Honda have all the facilities at their disposal in Japan to make their own F1 cars - and they have, over the years, produced a few. They decided that they would rather operate through an existing F1 team in the UK. Renault decided that they would follow this same path - again they have the capability of going it on their own. Toyota had a rally base in Germany, you are right, and thought they could work their F1 base from there...

Honda, let us not forget, won the WDC and WCC last year without their name on the car; their investment paid off, they just weren't around to enjoy it.

Minardi were based in Italy. Jordan were in contention for the WDC in '99, won races, and then missed out in the race for manufacturer backing. Jaguar were a corporate wet-dream gone wrong, taking over an increasingly competitive Stewart Grand Prix; since Red Bull have taken over, and run it like an F1 team - instead of simply a corporate PR operation - they seem to be doing OK....an Austrian team, you understand...

Anyway, the point I've been making all along is exactly the one that you later agreed with as a "fair assessment".. So, I'm not sure on what basis you've been disagreeing with me anymore...

That it's about the people that run the operation not the location of the operation. Your position is that having a shop in the US is the root of the problem when it's more an operational and experience issue. How would being located in over there make Anderson or Windsor better managers? It's not like Sir Frank or Whitmarsh are going to pop over and give them tips on building a team from scratch. The issues with Pechito's money aren't due to location. Having a shop in the UK or Europe does nothing to address the current problems. Any materials or machinery that can be obtained in the UK or Europe are easily available in Charlotte. An autoclave or 7 axis machine operates no differently in the UK than it does in the US. As for techs to run those machines, do you think the Stealth Bomber or Space Shuttle are built to any less tolerances than an F1 car? While you don't need a facility in Europe or the UK for design and build, you need management that are experienced in running such an operation. Again, look at Toyota over a billion and only 12 podiums to show for it. It's not where so much as it's who and with what.

The only way I see their location as being a problem up until this point is if it hindered them from bringing in top European management/designers with current F1 backgrounds. This because that individual didn't want to live in the US or fly back and forth. Besides these top people who seem to be a key missing piece from the team (Peter and Ken thought they were qualified), the rest of the mechanics, junior engineers, etc. can be found in the US; along with all the necessary materials and maufacturing equipment. Now when it's time to go racing, I can see there being many logistical and cross management issues between the home base in the US and that in Spain, but you need a friggin' car before worrying about that.

Obviously P & K misjudged their capabilities and managerial skills, no matter how great of a Bio they've written for themselves. Which is really too bad because had somebody been in charge that knew how to run a business, they would have actually utilized all highly capable companies surrounding them, instead of just talking about it as PK did. Then we wouldn't be having this discussion, instead there would be a car in Jerez right now.

ok.. lets start a new gossip..


Jaques Villeneuve will be the second driver in USF1??...
he`s in the same training center as pechito..he raced in argentina in a stock series..

JV on TRV6

the news are from 2008, but in 2009 he raced again..

the owner of that series its the one to brings pechito to F1.. (he collaborates with around U$S 2 million to the budget)
he signs a pre contract with JV for race the series this year.. so.. they are backed by the same guy..maybe this guy want to take control over USF1.. is it too strange or im so wrong.. (yes i know. im so wrong)

JV is hot for a ride apparently, but he was at the Olympics yesterday as well so he is no longer at the training center.

HEAR! HEAR!

JV got there to the training thing way earlier than Pechito... plus, it's hardly an USF1 exclusive. http://www.goellnersport.at/news_en.php

Even if he was in the picture we'll probably never know, which was well played on his part, lol

I think its a bit of both.

Its true the stealth bomber/ space shuttle is built to similar tolerances and a seven axis machine is the same whether it works in inches or cm. However neither fact is important compared to experience. There are thousands of engineers cleverer than me, but my experience means in my very narrow field I'm one of the top 10. Same as F1, there are lots of talented racing designers/engineers in the states, but its the F1 bit that's important if you want to build an F1 car in a couple of months.

The location has an effect, but only due to budget. If you want the best experienced engineers/designers, you are going to have to get them to move across the pond. Unless you can offer a LOT of money or a guarantee of job security they aren't going to take the chance. So you can hire the best people in the states (even if they are related) and still find you have a 2 or 3 year learning period to discover the little tricks and the experience that means you can go from drawing board to a car in an incredibly tight schedule.

Frankly I'm impressed with any team that can build a car in time even if it is a dog - its still impressive. .

Hi there,

I actualliy liked the idea of having a TEAM in the US. I started wondering about the seriousness of their planes when I saw the NO hiring of talented available and experienced F1 drivers. Seeing this Argentinian guy being hired because he came with money from the Argentinian governement made me laugh.

I could not consider that move a valid one. Why? Beacause with a new team IMO and with so little chances to test and improve the car, why in the world would you hire some who has very limited experience of F1? There were plenty of better qualified people, unemployed waiting for any opportunities to be on the track and yet...... Not to mention completly contradicting their earlier staments to build an all American team.

Yep, that will be the line, but thankfully people will see right through it...
At least Campos went about their failure more-or-less quietly...While USF1 seems to be contuining the loud, lying bluster right up until the end...

It has been the obnoxious promises, smirking haughtiness, and shameless 'playing-up' of the American angle by Winsor/Anderson that imo is unforgivable if they do not have cars on the grid in Bahrain...

Errrmmm... driver is a person who is supposed to drive something, right? Does USF1 have something to drive? Maybe company cars for KA & PW but seemingly not many more

EDIT: I haven't seen percentage of "Yes" answer so low (53.82%) for about three months

You think that was what was meant by "Basically it's the top of the know-how pyramid that's missing in US... of course I'm talking about F1 specifically."? And its not just about the staff, its about the supply of components to the F1 industry. Those specialist companies in the UK supply tooling, metal components, composite components..., all with a very fast turn around. There is, simply, nowhere else in the world where this industry has evolved to the degree it has in the UK.



The idea of basing themselves in Charlotte, North Carolina is, I believe, symptomatic of their disastrous operational planning - I think immediately upon hearing that alarm bells should have been ringing. It isn't, by any means, their only problem. I hope that they do make it, I truly do, but...whether they do or not I doubt they will make a success of it. If they ain't gonna do it, then they should at least not waste any more of Lopez's time (or his sponsors' money) and let him try to take his money to Campos.

Plus of course if you WANT to work in Formula 1, you'd head for where there are more jobs and more opportunities. And once ensconced you will want to stay in that area, even if you get fed up with your job. Much easier to move from Williams to McLaren (say) than Williams to Toyota (as was), let alone Williams to NASCARland.

Think it would be much lower if you could change your vote.

I agree. I'd suggest starting a new poll but I don't think it would serve any real purpose other than to show that confidence in this project reaching fruition has dropped significantly. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for them but, realistically, I'm just not expecting them to appear now.