I'd vote no now if I could. I think they could still make the grid, but the chances are slim at best (even if they pass they're crash test).

allright... nuff talk... time for action: any news on a launch / show date for their car?

Where has the wishful thinking this thread was once full of gone? Have I missed some major news, or why does the thread seem to have lost those optimistic posts?

There were no major news. Which is exactly why most optimism has vanished.

News from someone that I do trust inside USF1 : Big week ahead this week, things should become a lot clearer. Looking forward to it.

Via: http://twitter.com/ericswarren

I recall at the beginning of last season either BMW or Toyota even complaining that they had a hard time hiring away seasoned talent because of their location in Germany. Therefore I find it hard to dispute that USF1 choosing Charlotte as their home base effected their ability to hire key talent needed to manage their operation properly. Not that it would have mattered because Anderson seems to not relinquish control.

Im still hoping both USF1 and Campos make it. Things have to start happening now.

I want to see Bruno and JML on the grid, two of the best rookies.

Yet only a few teams each year are in contention for the championship. And one of them is based in Italy. With all this depth Lotus and Virgin have only within the last several days had cars on the track. I agree that the UK is the center (or is it centre?) of F1. But that doesn't mean that by being located there in and of itself is going to make or break the team. If that was the case Lotus and Virgin would have been to both tests. It took Lotus and RTN this long to put a car on the track. If USF1 turned up on the first day and was 14 secs off the pace, had a strategic failure of a part and were not equipped with enough spares and had to sit a day out, you lot would have a field day railing on all things USF1.

The business model of USF1 is to build a car, in the US, using a variety of subcontractors (many of which do business with F1 teams regularly) with Anderson designing the car and Anderson and Windsor running the team. While there is understandably an F1 workforce in Motorsport Valley, all of what I'd call the "A" and "B" listers aren't going to be interested in joining the startups, regardless of location. They're already on good teams. Some might come out of retirement, relish the challenge but by and large most of the talent of the startups will be people that for whatever reason there wasn't enough room on other teams.

Well the stats show that most businesses fail because of poor management and lack of finances; USF1 will be no different...it it does indeed fail that is.

I see from your post your more of a follower than a leader, that doesn't fit into the F1 mentality now does it .

I asked a friend who made it BIG (very quick retirement big) with a business some advice a long time ago and he said never give up, just keep plugging away. It was his 9th attempt at a startup business by the way, the previous 8 were failures. So, until the banks shut you down keep on selling whatever you've got to sell.

The idea that USF1 will fail because of location is ludicrous. Usually location is a minor factor, but in F1 they race all around the world (in places no one wants to go to) so location is where ever you'd like it to be within reason of course. Sure you have to have a talented labor pool to draw from and frankly F1-engineers in the US do not exist because the US does not care about F1, nor do we train then too.....and why should we? where are they going to work? I doubt very seriously if NASA would even consider highering Adrian Newey for an entry-level position as his training is not what they are looking for. However that's not to say they cannot learn the field, but one team entering F1 isn't enough to get those wheels in motion.

The US is a melting pot of cultures and people, if you have been here (and worked here) you know that. You may work with Aussies, Brits, Indians, Thai's, Japanese, Hawiians ( ), etc.

USF1 will fail because of lack of money which stems from lack of sponsor support (which is lack of fan base to driver the sponsors).

Virgin and Lotus have both launched their cars, Campos and USF1 have yet to... both the former teams are in the UK. Coincidence? Maybe. If USF1 turn up anywhere with anything, I will be as pleased as punch. I think Lopez is a talented enough driver, and would hate for his chances to be sunk by a group of dreamers and/or charlatans - which is more and more what USF1 looks like. I will repeat that their decision to base themselves in the US offers a clue as to the seriousness of their business plan; Lotus are a Malaysian owned team, and they have shown themselves to be a real F1 team - you know, they have a car, sponsors, staff and drivers all in place. I hope to be proven wrong, but USF1 looks less and less like a real, serious F1 effort.

Have just read the location debate and have not found anyone that mentioned Sauber... Sauber is based in Switzerland (where motorsport was (still is?) illegal) and the same debate about it's location took place. It was in the middle of nowhere when it comes to F1 suppliers, knowledge and workforce. Granted, Sauber started from his sportscar company (which is a big plus compared to USF1). With the right management and finance, Charlotte should be a vastly superior base compared to Hinwil in Switzerland.

Eric Warren's Twitter was interesting to read. He could be referring to the crash tests that is rumoured to take place this week. The result of those is obviously very important

Anyway, it should be an interesting week ahead. It could be the week that decides the future of the team...

Should USF1 fail.. I doubt very highly it has anything to do with where the team is based and more to do with some severe mismanagement.

1. $ - Lacking of appropriate funding to get a team off the ground.
2. $ - Lack of official sponsor(s) yet to come on board and provide the team with some long term stability (1-2yrs)

It's not as if they are based in an area without any racing heritage and modern facilities and suppliers. Plus, with next day or 2 day delivery, teleconference abilities that are the norm now. Being outside of Europe isn't a huge deal.

Europe vs. USA ... Staff?
Really depends on what was the business plan and philosphy behind the USF1 position. If they wanted to truly be as a USA as possible and use US engineers from Penske/CART/INDY/NASCAR etc. then being outside of Europe isn't a significant issue.

Sounds as though they simply wanted the entry to "attract" sponsorship vs. having it in-place and then securing the spot. Peter and Ken's potential failure shouldnt represent an American failure as the US is more then capable of fielding a US Based team and being competitive at that. If they fail, it has more to do with Ken and Peter then anything else and underestimating the job at hand. Both technicially and $ mise.

Let's hope we are all wrong and they wow us this week.

It's as if the team conceived and run by Roger, Chip etc. who have experience with open wheel racing and decided now was a good time to start a US based team...

The location is one thing I do like about the team. I very much dislike its presentation as a national team but I like the fact that's it's based in the USA. I want teams from a variety of places.

It must have made the job more difficult, though. Then again, at one time the idea of basing a team in Britain was silly.

Thing is, the tax situation is helpful to them in attracting employees, and perhaps the lack of cross-fertilization of rumour/staff moving between teams is why Saubers always tend(ed) to go backwards in F1 seasons?

Could well be, but Ferrari isn't based in the UK or with lot's of other F1 teams either. Ferrari being Ferrari probably makes the situation different to Sauber in attracting people to come and work for them though.

Plus Ferrari are both steeped in motor racing past and present. Minardi Rosso, Dallara, Alfa and so on all produce race-ready staff.

Possibly. Let's find out. This week is surely crunch week. There's less than a month to go!



Doubt it, I'm sure he would like to preserve whatever he regards as his "reputation" and of course, his ego. He is male after all.

Getting bored of the USF1 saga now, if I'm quite honest.

Some more news on the USF1 front aside from the tweet today from Warren. http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y...sl=es&tl=en

Well.. a lot seems to hang from those crash tests...

personally i'd be surprised if it was the only issue.. as a fan of the no.2 driver you know..

Not just the tax situation. Having lived in Zurich for about 4 years, I can certainly say that I would rather live in Zurich, than Milton Keynes for example.

Toyota already had the TTE in Germany which was probably the best structure they owned to get to F1 without starting from scratch. Honda bought BAR (as Renault bought Benetton which was based in the UK), but I'm not sure where was going to be based their original F1 "solo" project that was partially closed after Harvey Postletwaithe died, but I guess it was in the UK too... isn't Mugen based in the UK anyway?

EDIT: Corsa reports López will land in Charlotte next week as expected after finishing a hard training period in Austria.

Here is link to a horrible translation of the above: http://www.formula1blog.com/2010/02/14/pec...plans-are-a-go/

I say horrible because using google translate states that JML will head back to the team to assemble the car! That is one way to get your drivers up to speed on the inner workings of the car...

Finally, it appears the team has uniforms: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekXmv1k9RdM...player_embedded

Windsor doesn't look real convinced or convincing in this video does he.

Both saw a track for the first time five days ago. If the talent pool and the resources are so deep why did they not get it done sooner? If it takes USF1 another 10 days to shake the car down (based on the Feb 25 statement) it will be a difference of about 2 weeks time. Basically a "fortnight". Granted, it's a critical two weeks but the goal is to get a car on the track, not to have a press event. It's going to be close.

With all due respect... they ain't done it yet. I'm not convinced that they will, that's what I'm saying. It's not a case of simply having a car ten days later - as of this moment its a case of not having a car - period.

There is no proof either way, they could have three cars for all we really know - which is nothing. How many times in the history of the sport have we seen current teams launch with old cars, just new paint jobs. Only to turn up at the first race with the new car, or an interim car, or an old car. Remember the huge gamble Ferrari took a few years back, running with an old car until the European races. We have to give the new teams some room, I hope they make it, the sport needs them - they make a better show. I honestly have no clue who will be on the grid, but I will honestly say that I hope they all are - heck even left Stefan GP in. Next year allow Prodrive as well, see what they can do.

What makes F1 so unique from my perspective is all the different teams, how they do things differently but slightly the same compared to each other, the secrets they keep during the off-season only to be truly revealed at the first race. Then once the racing starts we get to watch the cars evolve over the season, new wings, new aero bits, it is great!

I will hold my true judgement until Bahrain, if they do not make it I will feel sorry for the drivers that put the dreams in that team only to have them crushed. For all the workers that tried to get there, tried to make the race. For Dallara, such a great history, I want to see that car run. I hope for the sport we see the new teams! Not that the sport will be any lesser without them, they would not be noticed to be missing, but if they are there, and race, we get a better show. The Formula 1 circus continues!

You can't really compare the timelines though, USF1 has been an F1 team since Feb 09 compared to late September for Lotus.

While they announced they wanted to field a team in Feb, you aren't an F1 team until the FIA accept your entry. That happened in June but no Concorde until July. Litespeed wanted in on the first round but remember the dust up over the use of the Lotus name? It was Sept when they were accepted and chose to use RTN as the shop and subcontractor. Smart move since they didn't have build a shop from scratch. Plus they have Gascoyne and Virgin have Wirth. USF1 didn't finish the shop until Oct or so. I suppose I don't need to remind you that they were the only team to start from scratch with no previous facilities or race team. A big hurdle for them was not getting the Petchito money in Dec. As it stands, right now, today (I'll even be charitable and use UTC) there is a difference of six days. The most the difference will ever be will be 30 days. Any later and they've missed it. If USF1 don't make Bahrain I'd reckon they'll lose the spot. The difference between the bench racers here and the team is that the team has some skin in the game. They have to make it. It's all on the line and that's the difference between someone that is trying to get to the grid and someone that's 5000 miles away and doesn't really know what's going. Granted, they may not make it but at this point I think they're doing what the can to get the cars out.

If they can make it, the fun part is going to watch them go out of this silly secretive mode, lol

"We were busy, forgot to tell ya'all about it, everything is perfectly normal" .. says a starved up Peter Windbag..

Yes but loki at the end of the day a list of excuses feels a bit lame when we've just seen Lotus start months later, put a professional team and drivers together and deliver a pretty decent looking car for testing.

On the first page of this thread I listed some doubts I had about the team in dot points and unfortunately they seem to have played out.

Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back just yet. What's the saying? "I'm not dead yet". In a few weeks time we'll know and you can brag about how you were right or I can come back and be really smug and sarcastic in repeatedly pointing out many of you were wrong. There is a difference between excuses and reasons. As stated before, the reasons appear to be inexperienced management and cash flow issues. The argument that to avoid this they should have been in Europe or the UK is non sequiter. Many of the folks here under estimate the ability in our culture, particularly our racing culture (primarily due to limited or no exposure) when it hits the fan and it's against all odds. It's a race against the clock and I'm sure that given the chance they'd rather not be in that position. But, it is what it is and pretty soon we'll know. Then it will be on to criticizing the size of the motorhome or the quality of the food in hospitality.

Ok you are just being antagonising and rude which is unnecessary.

I thought you knew I was an American...

Steady on chap. Just putting a bit of much needed levity into the thread. Don't take it personal.

Both Pee against the Wind and KA has been babbling about the three years they've been planning for this pathetic outfit.
Can't help wondering what that grand masterplan was all about, to scam the Argentinians on 8 million USD perhaps?

Raz

You can plan and talk whatever you want but how on earth did USF1 manage to convince FIA? What did they have by June? No money, no staff, no experience, just lots of blah-blah-blah.
Somebody compared USF1 to Sauber which also operates from a very strange place (Switzerland). Yeah, that's true but it took Peter Sauber more than 20 years to get to F1. On his way he gathered wins, experience, reputation and money. USF1 tried to skip all this. OK, if they had megabucks, maybe the could succeed. It's sad US is no represented in F1 with its own team but IMHO after USF1 no-one even thinks about that.

http://www.yallaf1.com/2010/02/15/usf1-dri...pares-for-2010/

If we look from a historic perspective there has since WWII, been two main agglomerations of the motorsport industry and especially F1 suppliers - Motorsport Valley in the UK and... the area around Modena, Italy. Setting up a F1 operations outside these places is a gamble, and a cost factor - it is a fact that transaction costs are higher for teams outside of these centres.

Even if teams such as Sauber have been outside the epicentre in terms of HQ their supplier network is firmly based in these two agglomerations. A big problem for USF1 is that not only do they need to set up outside of these two places, they also need to a) either use new suppliers with little F1 background or b) pay a premium (in terms of higher transaction costs) in terms of depending on suppliers in Europe. They are doing a), which is both costly and risky. Tony Fernandez who has previously stated that they intend to allocate in malaysia is now retracting and saying that the costs of transactions even with new technology (such as the aforementioned "conference calls") is so high that the nationalistic pride you get from being in your home-country does not weigh well against the costs incurred by setting up elsewhere. As an ineteresting sidenote, Lotus is based in Norfolk and Motorsport Valley but actually depends more on suppliers in the Modena region (e.g. Fondmetal, Aerolab) for their design / production of the car.



Well, I guess it becomes an significant issue once you decide not to compete in CART/INDY/NASCAR - it's very different to be an engineer in NASCAR than in F1. The acclimatisation/"training" needed is a cost for USF1, a cost that would not have incurred were they based in MV or Modena. Of course you can be based in the US but the problem is costs, they will have to burn more money to set up supplier networks and if they want experience of top F1 engineers they'll have to offer more money than similar outfits in Europe. Toyota had similar problems, in terms of recruiting but also specilized suppliers, but they were HUGE in terms of financial backing - and that was Germany, geographically not far from MV.

One of the biggest mistakes I think USF1 have done insofar is deciding to construct their own gearbox from scratch.

Selection was of course staged by the former FIA president, a proven manipulator and sociopath, who thought Lola and Prodrive too maufacturish for his taste.
Besides, who knows what children he might have with Windbag, his association with Nick Wirth-less was useful for Manor/Virgin, that much is for certain.

Raz

Still, half of February has passed and no car has been spotted yet. I would like to think that this particular outfit would've been quite happy to show it off to the world if it was indeed ready..

I now think that USF1 is never going to make the ticket.

ha windsor in hiding building up for sale,dallara project now sold to kolles for VW entry 2011,how come the comics have,nt picked up on a few phone call,s that i can make to many good old backhanders,and scam,s

But, ...
...they have a nose cone... -I saw it with my own eyes on youtube!

Bahahaha!

How on Earth can you criticize their decision to build their own gearbox (it's a gearbox casing they are building or supposed to be building) when the car hasn't run yet? that's just daft.

If it breaks every other lap then fine criticize away, but let the damn thing turn a wheel before you criticize the car. Sure find fault in their management (again the #1 reason businesses fail, #2 funding - they are related; would you lend to an incompetent managerial staff? only if you are the US Government ), but let the car at least try to turn a wheel before you criticize its bits and pieces.

Surely if this comes crashing down Windsor as a journalist is also dead in the water?

Unlikely unless there was evidence of fraud

I think Haymarket would be straight on the phone to him offering him his old gig at F1Racing

He is an incompetent businessman but I doubt it will affect his writing career

Whatever reputation he had is definitely on the line - at least IMO. Sure he won't be the first or last to start a failed business, but he did speak of grandious plans of funding eing in place blah blah blah.

But I have to tell ya that I am as easy as any to cheer up the sooner we hear any good news. reminds yuo I said I THINK,...

But.... the decision to base themselves in the US is sympomatic of the incompetent management of the team. That choice, on its own, immediately raised questions as to the seriousness of the team's planning and strategies - in the same way that Fernandez's initial remarks about setting his team up in Malaysia did. Seemingly Fernandez has listened to advice and seen the sense in basing in the UK. USF1 is, it seems, nothing more than a dreamer's charter - and the whole debacle raises serious questions about the bidding process that was implemented by that idiot Mosley.

The more I read about USF1, the more I sigh and reminisce about Dan Gurney's Eagles.

It's not as though USF1 failing to produce a car is the first thing to raise serious questions about the bidding process.