No, the next step is writing a book:

"Peter Windsor: The Failings of US F1"

With the tagline, "Kiss my friction circle."

Well, just by looking at the facts (not the rumors and other childish bullshit), Windsor said the funding was in place. I find it odd that the FIA did not check to see if indeed funding was in place and if it really was in place then that is evidence that Windsor/Anderson are incompetent.

As for their basing in the US, I feel like that is a non-issue really. Yes there is no question that it would take time to train engineers in the field of F1, but those engineers do exists. Some from the US, some from elsewhere. Windsor knew this and esentially said so. Suppliers are suppliers. A machinist mill's the same in Germany/Britain/Italy/US/Canada as it does in China - I know this for an absolute fact and stake a business on it. No doubt some machinists are better than others, but that's just like in every profession.

One thing is for sure, if you are going to 'join' F1 you can't do things 'just like all the others' and expect to get ahead; that's just follow the leader. Everyone says (or I should says blathers on) 'we don't have anymore Chapman's, Brabham's, McLaren's - no innovators who try to shake things up'. And when you get someone who tries to do something different and try a new approach all everyone does is crucify them - well do you really want to see someone try something different or are you just blathering on?

He is an incompetent journalist too.

Anyway, his PR was full of misleading statements and false confidence, so it does raise the blinds off of his integrity.

Oh, I agree completely, but there could always, previously, be the argument.. "let's wait and see." That USF1 have turned out (it would seem, unless something miraculous happens in the next 13 days...) to be the non-starter most people considered it to be, and the reasons for that, mean that defence is no longer there.

Money money money money......money
Money money money money......money
Money money money money......money

Some people got to have it.................

_______________________________________

USF1 faces a a huge business cultural change that the US people will not accept.

People here support the PGA Tour (to the tune of 100's of millions) because it gives back to the communities. Nascar gives back, NFL gives back, Baseball gives back, NBA......well er ah..... keeps the drug and gang units of most every PD employed

The point is, why should Cisco (as an example) give to USF1? what good is it to them? how can they benefit in their association with them? THAT is why it will fail (if aimed at US companies which we were initially told it was). They've obviously changed the target - that's a smart thing. US companies will not benefit from this association.

Everyone has been linking them with Best Buy and as far as I know Best Buy don't have any stores outside of USA and I think maybe Mexico so there is nothing in it for them by sponsoring USF1

The below is from a friend at another F1 forum, I trust his word alot, but this is a bit of hearsay:

"There is another forum board site that I frequent where one of the 'regulars' is a guy who has worked on racing teams (IndyCar & other series) for many years, and knows many other folks - crew members, engineers & the like - in the business, including some currently working at USF1.

The word that he is getting from his friends is that the whole project is a shambles. Anderson & Windsor are reportedly hopeless at ANY aspect of management - organizing/delegating/leadership skills/etc. - & everything is WAY behind schedule. The tub isn't even ready, let alone the car. Principal financial backer Chad Hurley has gotten wise to their situation, & has severely cut back the cash flow to what increasingly looks like a money pit.

That has the squad living hand-to-mouth off of whoever they can convince to drop a few dollars their way. Reportedly, most at the shop are about one month behind in getting paychecks. Some people are already looking for the exits...

My forum board buddy says to look for the whole thing to 'go public' when the team fails to get a car ready for their promised late Feb. test session at Barber Motorsports Park."

Makes sense, backs up what CK was saying and Windsor hasn't sued Atlas for libel so there has to be something in it

It is a shame the team got lumbered with Dumb and Dumber at the controls

I've got to call BS to this "payroll a month behind" bullshit. This isn't the 1820's, every state has labor laws (and we have FEDERAL labor laws too ). Even North Carolina http://www.nclabor.com/ has labor laws. All it takes is ONE phone call and the labor board swoops down like buzzards on a gut-wagon and causes all hell to break loose - it's a business nightmare to have these people run through your books. They side with the employee, they are NOT on management's side from the get-go.

Labor laws ;-) It's not uncommon for companies to mispayments to employee and to have talks with them about helping out to get through a turbulent point to hopefully reap the rewards later, especially in a start up organization. Considering the immense challenge and goal of USF1, i wouldn't be surprised if employee's get behind the team and not their own financial needs .. if.. and a BIG IF.. they see what the end result could be of getting the car out to a test session and onto the grid next month. However, if their is no way that is going to happen (and it's looking more and more the case) then expect that lawsuits to fly any day..

Canada, China, England & Turkey

I live in England and I have never seen a Best Buy store you confusing them with Costco by any chance ?

Don't want to see any more xenophobic stuff on this board please. Sweeping statements about 'Americans' or any other nationality are as abusive to posters as any other personal attack on this board. We don't want to see it here.

You should take a drive around Lakeside or Hedge End then. You may see them putting the finishing touches on the stores before they open in a few weeks.

shouldnt that be
"Peter Windsor: My failings as a manager"?

they are looking to expand into the european markets
try http://www.bestbuy.co.uk/page/custom.aspx?PageName=Media Centre&section=press

Best Buy, a leading consumer electronics retailer, in association with Geek Squad, the 24 hour technology support service, today announces the creation of up to 1,000 UK-wide jobs over the next five years, in response to increased demand for consumer technology after-sales support.

or perhaps

Westfield has signed up Best Buy, the consumer electronics retailer, at Merry Hill in the West Midlands.

still tough to show any return on the kind of sponsor dollars F1 commands. Best Buy probably could sponsor half the Nascar and IRL fields for less. How many sponsors do we see 'come and go' in F1. people like AMD are driven by the co founders passion for Ferrari, doubt that that will be the case with Best Buy- US f1

but it would not reach europe and that is the market they are looking to expand into.
I am not saying they are or arenot paying into USF1 simply the fact that if they are they have a very good viable commercial reason for doing so.
As long as the cars make it to the grid.

Hell would come down on us if our company had a paycheck get lost in the mail, that employee would be on the phone so quickly it was not even funny. Had we known in the first place, we normally could get a replacement check from corporate the next day. Granted I think people in the motorsport business might be more forgiving, but not this forgiving. Surely if CK was not getting paid, he would have reported them. I have to call forum rumors the least trustworthy and the most open for fanboy slant, and only proven true/false when this is all over.

I still have faith that Dr. Warren and the media surrounding JML for now are more accurate than internet postings. Dr. Warren can easily leave the team if he so decided and have a job really quickly, maybe even before he walked out the door to USF1. Until I see a tweet from him saying - I tried, they could not build my aggressive floor, I resign. I will keep watching for some signs that the team is going to make the season. Some of us can argue that they have no cars, but the simple fact is that we really do not know, and that is the problem.

Either USF1 does not care about the negative pressure, or they do not even see it because they are busy. Regardless I would like for them to come clean and say yes we are still here, he is a picture of the crash test, or here is a picture of the car. If they had a phone number I would surely give them a ring.

Edit: I got voice mail - the number is easy to find, so at least the phone bill is paid. I will try again later, still lunch time for the office staff.

I don't think it was a bad idea generally, just maybe not a great idea for a first year team with limited time and funds that needs to make the grid. Considering the issues we saw some teams (w/ years F1 exp.) having just making a wokring box seamless, I think it was quite an undertaking to develop one from scratch. Looking at the pictures in Racecar Engineering that included both USF1 and the new Xtrac box, the USF1 transverse didn't look much more compact then the longitudinal Xtrac. Although the more compact box will still be benfeficial with no-refuelling, allowing a shorter wheel base, it's unknown if they would maintain a diffuser benefit as well now that the DD is going to be banned in 2011. So it's possible they may lose 1/2 the advantage of the design in 1 years time.

The thing that gets me is that the youtube chap is essentially saying that he doesn't think the team he's backing is going to be ready, so he will give them LESS money. Seems a bit base over apex. After all, if he chose them in the first place, should he not be helping them right now, or demanding their replacement before providing proper funding?

Do you have a link to that? I have been watching his tweets and he has not said anything to that, so is this just media rumors? Last tweet I saw was - Good question! It's crunch time for Ken and company.

Additionally, I did call the factory, but got voicemail. I will try again later, it is lunch time for the office staff. This is a bit of a double post, I edited my above post without refreshing only to see more posts had been made.

Considering the limited viewership/following of F1 in the US, compared to the huge #'s NASCAR or NFL, it just doesn't make sense for a US company to use USF1 as a domestic marketing tool. What would make sense is a US Corp looking for global exposure, with large technology or global conglomerates leading that list. Somebody like Colgate or Coca-Cola, however seeing as there are more established teams in need of money, a wiser choice would probably be Renault or Sauber. I would let other sponsors/financier's take the initial risk, only considering USF1 after they have established themselves and have expanded the US fanbase.

I hope that is not the case...
Poor management - underestimation of the task at hand - is completely forgivable...but what Windsor/Anderson have done (most likely) is not - it's the swaggering promises, the lying, the flipancy and shamlessness of it all that imo hopefully disqualify these people from any future involvement in the sport...

I've got a friend that's been in the situation. He worked for a marketing company that seemed to be hanging by a thread, but had high ambitions if it pulled through. His company was behind 1 or 2 checks for him. But his options were to either report them and in all likelihood deliver the killing blow to the company, or hold out in the hopes that they pull through and he keeps his job.

You mean like Ron Dennis and Flavio, and Paul, Shumacher, etc, etc. Lying is part of the sport, or keeping the actual truth from your competitors is more the case, tell the media a lie so your rivals do not know the full truth. How many times in the past have we seen teams launch and say at the first race we will have a major update - the race comes and the car maybe has a new mirror. Had all the new teams signed the Concorde agreement three months earlier we probably would not be arguing any of this at all. They might all be testing at this point, well Campos might have still been in trouble, but maybe not.

OK, what is the business you're wagering? That "suppliers are suppliers" in F1 is simply not true - there is a limited amount of suppliers that have the reputation and processes in place to be used by the teams. Why else do you think the teams' use common suppliers (considering the risks)? If a machinist's mill is the same everywhere the only deciding factor for F1 teams would be price, more specifically the price of labour - and thus MV could not compete, rather the kernel of the supplier networks would be in South-East Asia and China. If what you sate is a fact you'd need to explain why the suppliers are located where they are, which is not in China. The successful teams are big business they do not choose their suppliers because of a nationalist bias, if they'd get the same quality for a lower price elsewhere they would - yet they do not.

I think insofar we have pretty strong evidence that basing in the US *is* an issue, as it has been for every team that has located outside of MV and Modena... I have seen no evidence ever to suggest that location of HQ and manufacturing in F1 has no impact whatsoever. I suggest you read some interviews that has been done post-Toyota's F1 venture, and what kind of difficulties and costs they experienced due to their location...



You can do things differently yes, but it would be good to concentrate those efforts to design and & RD - rather than coming up with organizational solutions that are more costly than the others. Are you seeing some kind of innovation at USF1? Would you care to tell us what that is? Or are we to assume innovation will come through location? Which did not matter?



I think you misunderstood my post - I expressed my worry that a team with limited resources choses a solution to do things in-house (out of principle and image) when those solutions are available elsewhere for a smaller cost. USF1 had a very short time to put their house together, I just think they should have concentrated on the things that they could not buy from an external provider. It might well work, and I hope so, but the resources that they put down on the gearbox could have been spent elsewhere (you may have noticed they are lagging in their time schedule).

Building up supplier networks is expensive in this industry, as is production, as is hiring the top engineering talent - it became expensive for Toyota and that was a team with 'unlimited' funding, USF1 is not. As stated previously I have no beef with it being based in the US, I was as skeptical - based on everything I've seen in this industry insofar - when Fernandes announced that they would base their (Lotus) R&D in Malaysia - which he then last week retracted, stating costs as the reason. I'm basing my views on every location strategy we have seen insofar in F1, what you are basing your views on in terms of "location does not matter in F1" is more unclear (to me).

I just talked with a very nice lady over at USF1, no factory tours just yet. Said everyone was working hard, she seemed to be in very good spirits. So there are people in the factory it seems.

Depends. Most likely, the funding depending on milestones being acheived. Hit a certain milestone, additional funds released. Days of writing a blank cheque are long gone. \

The youtube chap probably is getting fustrated that milestone after milestone isn't being acheived so why continue to fund a project that is derailed and probably not going to hit it's ultimate milestone, for which he'll never see any return on his investment.

Just common sense. It's a business 1st and foremost.

Don't know what to make of this really? Found it on the other forum.

http://www.walterscommercial.com/

Raz

Formula 1 Race Shop - Five-year NNN lease 33,690 Sq. Ft. in immaculate condition. 100% air conditioned and heated. $620,000 in building renovations by tenant in 2009. Leased through June 2014. 9.1% cap rate.

Looks like the building they are renting is for sale...
Would not make any difference to the tenants.

USF1 has a lease until 2014.. Guess they intend to be there for awhile

Interesting the layout is very much the same. The floorplan says Jackson Motorsports, but everything else appears to match the floorplan on this thread. Yes the building where my business was located was sold twice while I was a tenant, common practice, get the building fully leased and then flip it.

Zoom in on the map and the cars go away: http://www.bing.com/maps/explore/#5003/0.6...70&pid=5874

If USF1 make it at this rate, the shock and awe will tear this thread apart!

Well, if they make it, then a thread titled "Will USF1 make it to the 2010 grid" won't be necessary.

Looks like the building is leased till 2014, and the current owner is looking to seel the building with lease contract.

Yes, you can sell a building that is leased for more than you can sell an empty building. But here is our ticket in, call the selling agent and ask for a viewing of the property!

Based on the fact that it has a lease for an F1 team until 2014, knowing which team it is, if you had the cash, would you buy it right now? Or would you wait? In fact how long would you wait to put your bid in (based on the fact nobody else has), this is all hypothetical of course.

Breaking News - Stefan GP bids on USF1 building! Plans to evict tenants and use building to store trophies.


/kidding

I had that coming didn't I?

The zoom-in thing just means the different zooms come from different satellite pictures.

Could this be USF1 looking for some short-term cash in lieu of (or in addition to) sponsors? I'm not really sure how these deals work...

Not sure if anyone saw on Jonathan Summerton's twitter, but he shed a little bit of light on the Super License situation;

"Thing is I can get a Super License. [I] just need a team to sign me and I have it."

Not sure what the debate has been int his thread about SL's but I thought that was interesting.

The building went up for sale right after USF1 leased in the middle of last year, this is old news. Anyhow USF1 are the lessee not the lessor so it's not them who is selling it, if they owned it they could take out a line of credit against the property for ST capital.




Interesting, considering the claim now by USF1 and there staunch supproters are that there are no US drivers who qualify for a SL. Funny thing is J-Lo does not have his yet either, another poor excuse by PW for selling out to the highest ride bidder, I'm not saying he doesn't have talent.

Windsor has been involved in two failed f1 team startups prior to this one and they didn't keep him out of the sport.

Why not? If you have already a step stone property elsewhere for which you need to reinvest/sell-and-purchase to make the money rolling a building with fixed tenant till 2014 is a good deal with the condition that the lease can be guaranteed. I would say it is more of a problem if the property will not be bought within a month or three. WHich cold mean that the lease is having problem.


BTW 'sightseeing' to the building is must-do if you want to buy the building, isn't it? You would not to want to buy the building where piranha is kept illegally?

How much of the car has to be ready for a crash-test? Is it the full thing, or just the driver's tub and sidepods?

Taken from a post over at Speed:

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/9...001-02-2010.pdf

"Parts to be fitted to the crash structure for impact tests
Frontal impact test :
- front impact structure including properly attached front wing hangers ;
- a fully representative 500mm wide front wing section. If there is provision within the front wing to
carry ballast the lightest version must be tested ;
- ventilation scoops ;
- any kind of externally fitted winglets including a dummy camera ;
- any kind of externally fitted brackets ;
- any part or component which is forward the front end of the survival cell such as the steering
rack, hydraulic lines for the power steering, brake fluid containers etc., even if these fall outside
the deformation zone.
Rear impact test
- rear impact structure including inserts for the attachment of components ;
- a fully representative 500mm wide lower rear wing section ;
- fully machined gearbox (the part number and weight must be supplied at the test) ;
- differential (real or dummy) ;
- any structural shrouds ;
- rear light (SLC dummy rear light possible) ;
- any brackets situated behind the rear wheel centre line ;
- any rear suspension members which are fitted to the structure behind the rear wheel centre line ;
- jack hook (if fitted).
Side impact test
- impact structures including any brackets ;
- all components such as electronic boxes which fall within the area of the impactor, allowing for
the tolerances permitted by Article 16.3 and the 1mm between the impactor tiles, this area is
407mm x 551mm (its centre lying 300mm above the reference plane and 500mm forward of the
rear edge of the cockpit opening template)."

Nah, there's a big difference between lying/misdirection to keep a competitive advantage over one's rivals, and between having an entire operation based on lies and crazy promises. In the end, the lies by Winsor/Anderson are not going to effect their rivals...only their would be supporters (and employees, sponsors, drivers etc.) and everyone else they shamelessly courted...

For instance, if two pukka GP cars suddenly emerged from USF1 ready for the flight to Bahrain...and if it came to pass that USF1 fed into the rumors of their own failure (for whatever reason - so everyone would 'write them off') - their lying would then simply be thought of as clever, and deservingly so...they would be heros, and deserving of great admiration.




I don't think anything even near the scale and visibility of this effort

I know on the satellites, I was making a joke, empty parking, empty factory.

The ad is probably for USF1 North Carolina shop. They mentioned that when they were leasing the space in the building that the owner had it up for sale, and they had obtained the leased at reasonable terms, since the lease was for 5 years with the standard out clauses.

So, for the continental and US trolls out there, there is nothing of significant value about the team's prognosis based on this real estate ad. You will find that several other racing shop building around Charlotteville are up for sale.

Note that Eric Warren last tweet said that after this week, that view from the team will be much clearer. So watch his twitter space, if your attention deficit disorder for F1 won't let concentrate on real work.

Personally, I don't care if USF1 doesn't make any of the Spanish test sessions. They can easily do a test session at Miller Barber Motorsports Park in MS, and then load the equipment to Europe, and from there to Bahrain. In the end, I feel confident they will be at Bahrain, and will race. If anyone feels differently, put the money up, if you feel so confident.