Brian Bonner is already employed as Co-Director at B4 Marketing - and has put USF1 as his past employer on the social networking sites that he's using... F1Lite is twittering from the horse's mouth.

My point is... I'd rather wait on the demise of the team being reported by numerous reputable sources. I'd consider that official enough.

Ouch!

Time running out for US F1

Bonner's departure was already being discussed on this thread last night ... !

Why would they try to make it, NASCAR is the place to be in American motorsport.

What you are asking is name a quality English quarterback and name a quality Brazilian wicket keeper from 10 seasons

why should USF1 be granted a grid place now? they havent even got a completed car with less than a month to the start

of the season, what a joke. Let Stefan Gp have the place, they have the car, a driver (soon to be two), possibly

sponsors on board, definately financially security, and even sent items off to the first three races. They're even going to

test before the first race and they havent even got an official spot!, shame on USF1 to throw such a sought after

opportunity away!

Well, we now know for sure that Schmidt's sources were pretty much spot on.
AM&S

Can you please show me the posts where I have denied ANY of the signs?

I have been very careful not to predict that the team WILL make it, rather I have also expressed concerns and doubts (repeatedly). I have however argued against some of the things that have been discussed on here and that have been portrayed as FACTS, when they where just rumours or hearsay.

I am used to being in a situation where you can actually have two thoughts in your head at once. On one hand I have expressed concerns and have been very clear in not predicting that USF1 WILL be on the grid. Just because I didn't have any facts to base such a stance on. I have described myselves as a "cautious optimist" with regards to USF1 making it.

On the other hand I have argued against some of the conclusions drawn by some members because the conclusions have not been based on objective evidence (objective evidence meaning something that can be proven by a third party and not just be someones opinion or interpretation of a rumour). That those events may happen does not automatically mean that those previous conclusions where based on facts, just that in a situation with two outcomes you have a 50% chance of being right if you choose one view. That I have argued like this has probably made some perceive me as a hardcore USF1 believer

It's like saying that JB would become WDC in 2009 after the first test. You might end up being correct, but not because you had all the facts to base it on... You are welcome to say "I told you so" but it does not make your first statement more factually based...

Like I said in previous posts, I am a engineer that have a background (and current work) with investigations and I also serve as a lay judge in criminal proceedings. This makes me tend to be a bit cautious with what I accept as evidence or facts. This might not work too well on a internet forum where gossipping is a very large part of why people participate.

I was a cautious optimist until January, but now time is running more and more out for the team. Up until January one could still argue that we didn't know the full story, or how far they had progressed. They signed their driver, and showed video of their tub and the electrical system being laid out. We didn't know what else was going on, and had the factory and suppliers been busy, things could have progressed sufficiently. Now, the situation is much more dire, based on the time that is left. We still have no more news of progress, apart from Dr. Warrens Twitters last week about the DDD and floor. Time is running out by the hour

But once again, even todays situation is mostly based on rumours, hearsay and unnamed sources. Even though you would have to be very optimistic to still have faith in the team making it to Bahrain, no one of us KNOWS what state of completion the car and team is in... I mean, not too many of us believes that the team has a finished car. But can anyone describe in details what is missing to complete the car?

Well what is missing to complete the car in vivid detail is...............money

It seems the only thing vivid concerning USF1 is the imagination of one Mr Windsor.

I was more thinking of parts... Even though they miss money (how much money do they still need btw ), how complete is the car, with the money they had? After all, last week Eric Warren Twittered that he was working on the DDD and the tools for the floor.

So, let's assume they miss money. My point is that we still don't know how much progress they have made on the car and parts since we last saw a new video from the team. Apart from stories that it won't be ready for Bahrain (I guess even with money?).

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/02/16/...ore-grid-slots/

Joe Saward seems to believe that Stefan GP's push yesterday for 14 grid slots is because they now realise that there is a big chance that both Campos and USF1 will be in Bahrain, even though it will be with slightly different management etc...

Is his story more factual or is the other stories more factual? There is a 50/50 (it might be 60/40 or something) chance that one of the stories is right. But I would not place large sums of money on either story at the moment...

But then again, maybe at least one of us knows what state of completion the car and team is in...

You're pretty selective with what is good enough for you to believe and what isn't... it's like all-along you expected the accurate depiction of the situation to come from USF1 in an official fashion or Windsor's mouth.. it just doesn't work like that..

If you work in investigations, you have to understand and collect the little bits of investigative work done by others (journos and such), and from there you can more or less assess the situation.. that's where the fun is with this foruming thing!

In short, you failed at this thing lol... you argued that guys like Varsha had see the 'cars' and Racecar Engineering couldn't get fooled by USF1 (paraphrasing..), yet you seemingly were the one drawing the wrong conclusions!

The negativity in the media wont help USF1 attract further investors and will plunge them into a (faster?) downward spiral. I have all but given up on them being on the grid.

If USF1 haven't passed the crash tests then their only option is to buy the Dallara chassis, which would leave Campos out. I don't see how both of them can be in Bahrain. One, maybe, but I can't see both making it.

I think Stefan's push for 14 grid slots is to try and ensure an entry now rather than having to wait for a team to officially pull out. I guess there's a chance that neither team will withdraw and will only be kicked out after failing to show for Bahrain. F1 will look silly if there is a team at the track who are ready to race, but can't because USF1 and Campos haven't withdrawn. It's much better if Stefan can be brought in regardless, in order to avoid this.

I think this is a valid point. I remember also posters at the time posting: 'Anyone who believes the times of the Brawn are real and not fake, is a tool/fool/naive.' Everyone has the right to explain facts (like the absence of a rolling car) his or her way. What is irritating on this board is the outright almost darwinian anger that some posters don't want to follow the 'obvious' explanation for that fact.

Last year, when the new teams were announced, I thought that US F1 had the best chance of pulling it out of the hat. The FIA were very sympathetic towards their entry, I think the potential for sponsorship was there if you had American drivers, Peter Windsor, despite his rep on this boards, does have some weighty experience and some good contacts, Ken Anderson is no lightweight... I was very sceptical about Lotus and Campos, and wasn't too sure about Richard Branson real intentions with F1.... but here were are, now.

My take on the US F1 story is that every start of a F1 team if you are not Red Bull or some other rich fool, is ...a bluff. You get the right papers, you tell a lot of people you're going to race in F1... and then hope you get the money from people. If you look at the history of Frank Williams you see he was into F1 every year with a last ditch effort, untill he met some very rich Arabs...

I think Windsor and chaps severely overestimated (just like I have) the available sponsors in the US, while they severely underestimated (like I have) how many companies in Europe and Asia are still willing to invest money in racing.

Stefanovic won't have current Bridgestone tires for his test next week unless he has a FIA entry.... that must be a hell of an unfortunate and frustrating issue for that team considering the status of both USF1 and Campos.

Even if they test without Bridgestone tyres, it still makes a point. It doesn't matter how quickly the car goes - just being there is all they need to do. Getting an entry is the number one priority. Evaluating the car comes second.

I think they had enough funding, or nearly enough.. they just made a poor(er) use of it.

For instance, yes the FIA (the rules maker) was sympathetic towards them, but Ecclestone (the commercial aspect of F1) wasn't... now if you were looking to inject funds into this thing, wouldn't you want to know what's that about?

Chad Hurley was a newcomer to this thing, and by his own words he was seduced into investing there by Windsor and Anderson... not everyone does mistakes like that.

There was a trend going from the very beginning and some of you simply refused to see it... because your view of the main actors was skewed and/or wrong from the beginning. ("Peter Windsor, despite his rep on this boards, does have some weighty experience and some good contacts... Ken Anderson is no lightweight... etc..")

Did you see my suggestion for a dream solution? This thread, last night.
http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?s=&a...t&p=4147102

105 pages.. 4000+ posts.. that its amazing in a never show up F1 Team..
and of course.. for me, as argentine, the most disapponting one..

i think i will not enjoy formula 1, at least for the first 2 races.. then the flame will back

I know but if he wants and expects to race, it must still frustrating to be made to run on GP2 rubbers for silly bureaucratic and political reasons, IMO.. plus, testing the car without an entry is actually going to annoy the FIA to no end.. it's definitely Stefan trying to barge their way through and force the issue by winning the favor of the public opinion!

For me, the Stefan GP situation has made this winter the most amusing off-season I can remember. Stefanovic an A+ for persistance!

"I agree that it seems like USF1 gets its unfair share of flak. Which will make it all the sweeter when they do show up and make it!" Post 236

Certainly optimistic, not so sure about cautious though.

I posted a reaction here to this post... and erased it. Why bother?

With all due respect, you are not making a good argument. You have missed the reasoning in my arguments. I have not once said "If Windsor has said it it must be true", just that there might be another version than the rumours and opinions of members. My point being that since we didn't have access to the sources, how could we believe that was reported or rumoured to be FACT. Yes, it might be true, but how many news reports have been proven unfounded. My point also being to argue another view on the information at hand (if you are a investigator you don't listen to just one side of the story and condemns the other side).

I argued that Varsha and Racecar Eng. had seen the car because they said so (in hindsight I agree that they must have been talking about the drawings of the car and not the car itselves). Racecar Engineering was the only European magazine that was reporting from inside the factory and where given access to drawings etc. It was the only magazine that actually could provide some substance (photos and tour of the factory etc) to their reporting. The other media just reported "we hear from our sources"... That's why I choose to take their information as more reliable than someone just reporting what appeared to be rumours. That both I and Racecar Engineering have drawn the wrong conclusions might be true. But what conclusions did I draw from the Racecar Eng articles? That the team would definitely be on the grid in Bahrain or that there actually was a factory and a car under construction? Please enlighten me as to what conclusions that I drew from the articles that was wrong.

My god.. I must have forgot to add some smilies there..

You woke up from the wrong side of the bed or something?

If you disagree with something I said, then we can discuss it without throwing our toys out of the pram..

Edit: I see you edited your post.. honestly, dunno what's that about. Behind my juvenile posting style I think I usually try to raise some decent points.

It would be very interesting to reboot the poll to see how the percentages come out now.

My guess is overwhelmingly NO

But somebody has clicked "YES" even today

Who was it, Peter Windsor/

Probably 'conclusions' isn't the right word.. but personally I thought the latest USF1 Rececar Engineering piece seriously lacked substance... it almost was like they copy-pasted some sugar-coated PR stuff from the team about what were the objectives, how they came to be, what could USF1 gain by working with other more credible businesses in US or around Charlotte, etc..

Basically it was on a conceptual level, based only on the little USF1 fed them, instead of going to the nuts and bolts which would have revealed much more about the real status of the team. (compare with the X-trac article in the same issue, night-and-day)

Do we (You) know that BE was against USF1 from the get go? (Didn't he suggest Lopez to USF1)
If Chad Hurley was convinced enough to put $20 mill into the team (he is not as naive as you make him...) then there should also be signs out there for a different "trend" than the one you have seen?

The world is not black and white or as simple as you perceive it. If you put two people together and they look at the sunset, chances are that they will see different things and have a different perspective. If you ask them later, they will tell two different stories of what they have seen. Both can represent the truth, just different views on the same subject.

The USF1 debacle has shown me how shambolic and corrupt the tender/bidding process must have been, when USF1 and Campos can get a grid slot and organisations like Lotus only get a place at the last minute due to the drop out of Toyota, and able men like Dave Richards are overlooked. I've seen more openness and honesty within Robert Mugabe's government, compared to the FIA decision making process. Mosley and Alan Donnelly should sent to the gallows, because they were directly involved in the choosing process.

Gosh, if USF1 could only produce 1/2 of such a movie I'd be convinced by their seriousness

Well obviously it could be a bit more complex than he made it to be... but IMO he was relatively naive.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/formu...F1-hurley_N.htm



IMO Hurley underestimated the political aspect of F1 or he simply didn't care all that much about it.. anyway he was probably convinced that Windsor/Anderson would take care of that..

I think just recently Hurley probably started to get up to speed with how F1 works, seeing as he is rumored to be working on this salvage deal and really getting implicated outside of just quietly funding dream merchants.

When crunch time arrived, Hurley probably tried to really know WTF was going on.. Bernie Ecclestone is the kind of guy who would have recognized someone valuable for F1, and behind the scenes is now probably guiding Hurley and generally trying to help salvage what's good out of the three struggling teams, and of course get rid of the undesirables.. like Anderson and Windsor.

If this fails, what a missed opportunity...

This thread shows ho much interest a US team gathers. Just look at the Campos thread in comparison...

(I know, I know.. Some will argue that the interest is not because of the nationality but the people involved).

I'd be surprised if USF1 can even find their way to Bahrain.

According to their website (the Scott Bennett blog), Loughborough University is in London...

It's not just them. All our airports claim to be based near London.

We now have "London Oxford Airport". *sigh*

It is how you interpret this information. Some took a look at that information and concluded that US_elsessF1 was not going to be able to build cars in time. A drawing is not the same as a working F1 car, otherwise a billion guys can claim to be sleeping with Megan Fox every night. As for other media not having any further information, they can only report what US_elsessF1 shares with them in the first place!

This is the other thing that created early doubt about USF1 in many minds. When you start a new team people expect you to share information as you achieve key milestones. This is reassuring to existing investors and also attracts new interest as people can see how things are progressing. You do not have to swing to the other extreme to become American Chopper and have Windsor try to play a Paul Turtel, there is a balance. USF1 never set any schedules, no milestones ('today we assembled the first car, here are the pics'), no nothing and somehow people are to trust they will be present at Bahrain.

It is okay for you to have felt that USF1 was a legitimate operation. Equally, many have had doubts since day one about this team and the lack of information (as well as information which has been shared) has never done anything to remove those doubts. Many people felt that they were a team conjured from thin air purely to make up the numbers on a depleted grid, now they are gonna feel vindicated and you should let it be. We are not arguing about facts anymore but who had superior intuition*.



*Intuition, since intelligence would be rather crass? But since when have I cared...

*Windsor throws a chair through a window*

Posted on another forum:



From a Cordoba newspaper:

Peter Windsor informed Lopez's father at a meeting yesterday at Charlotte that he won't be able to build the car in the scheduled dates and that he doesn't know what he's going to do with the project itself.

Apparently, the problem is that Chad Hurley, the one from Youtube, has quitted the project as an investor and he's negotiating with Campos instead.

USF1 hasn't proved much about the car, and Hurley thinks Campos, which car is being developed by Dallara, is a better option as the team "only" needs money...

Also, USF1 lacks the money necessary to secure the Cosworth engines, and that they were working on a powerplant similar to the CA2010

Lopez father will travel to Europe to talk to Ecclestone to start talks with Campos and/or Stefan GP

Spanish) www.carburando.com/SE-COMPLICO-LA-PARTICIPACION-DE-LOPEZ-EN-F1-N-DC48E753112F32729AD17BD70D14DEE4.ht m

The rumour mill for USF1 is officially saturated. Anything now is just worth a laugh. Everything, I mean everything, has been quoted or sourced as *the* problem for USF1.

Now it's time to wait for the officials to say something.

That's probably a misunderstanding... Cosworth supplied dummy engines to the new teams (2006 engines I guess), and most likely USF1 are still working around that dummy... It wouldn't be a real problem until they were ready to fire up the car, which by all accounts is not the case.

The rest is interesting.. seems to fit with my 'speculation'

Sorry slept a bit late, so I am behind on the news.

I am seeing all over the Argentine press that the dream is over. One even says a crying Peter Windsor broke the news to Lopez that he would not race this year.

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y...sl=es&tl=en

http://translate.google.com/translate?ie=U...sl=es&tl=en

Again who knows how accurate these are. The media guy left to go back to Nascar trucks (not coming back to USF1 by the way), and I think he took the facebook/twitter/youtube passwords with him...because I am really shocked that the team has not come out to say something. Like we are sorry to all the fans, but we let you down.

Now I guess the news is saying Hurley is splitting from the group, and going after Campos. Then some say he is going after Campos to merge.

All I know, is will somebody with a video camera walk into the factory and start getting 100% facts (SpeedTV you are the nearest news outlet). Do they only have dust as someone said, or are the still madly working hard.

With all the mess that is out there, for all I know we might here later today that they passed the crash test, and Lopez is driving the car in the parking lot as a shakedown. Sad state of affairs for the team, the fans, the sport. I really did not expect to wake up and see nothing yet again from USF1, the void they are creating alone is sparking rumors off. When a team goes dark like this, it is normally never a good thing.

I see ESPN just picked up on an old article and ran with it today.

Handbrake to "Pechito" Lopez and his hope in F1 (in Spanish)

Apparently a tearful Peter Windsor confided to Lopez and his father that USF1 will not be ready to take part in the season and he doesn't know what is going to happen to the project.

You think at this point the FIA at least would send another rep out to visit the factory like they did a few months back. Or Bernie, come on, where is Bernie all of the sudden?!

The FIA gave them the entry slot.

The FIA sent around people to see the factory.

We still have this mess.

USF1 need to say something. Who cares what the FIA or Bernie have to say? They can't change anything now.

I took it to mean the gearbox actually, but that was my head trying to translate, and not google. It made more sense that they would still be working on a gearbox.

The nice lady at USF1 is saying something - "Workin' Hard, Workin' Hard." Not sure what that counts for, but at least she was nice about it all.

Edit to add: http://mundod.lavoz.com.ar/?q=content/se-c...a-formula-uno-0

The FIA will be nowhere this factory as the thing is clearly in shambles now... if they (Nick Craw) would still be actively be backing USF1, it would be a good sign... instead the latest from the FIA is that the new teams can't miss races. Not good at all.

As for Bernie I'm pretty sure he's busy trying to arrange things for both StefanGP and Campos/Dallara... and if the rumors are true Chad Hurley would have switched his attention towards the Dallara car... This would have all the hallmarks of Bernie trying to help stitch something together for this valuable investor.

Makes sense to me anyway..

According to Corsa online :

The straw that broke the camel's back was non-compliance with the crash test in England, which was scheduled between 15 and 18 February. El equipo, obviamente, no cumplió con ese requerimiento de la FIA. The team obviously did not comply with this requirement of the FIA.

http://translate.google.fr/translate?hl=fr...ria-en-2010.php