Sorry but they were there first team announced and to start planning for 2010 yet they have not even got a car i think that says it alll.

Exceptional circumstances are normally covered by "force majeure" clauses. Instead of listing 1001 different scenarios that could happen, there is usually a force majeure clause. Problem with trying to describe every circumstance or effect thereof, is that there is always something that you haven't thought of (and it's usually the unlisted circumstances that happen... )

My understanding was that the CA opens up for a team to miss three races and that this was added to the new CA. The fact that it wasn't in the old CA also indicates that it hasn't got anything to do with planes falling down, but to give the new teams some leeway.

BTW, the WRC doesn't require every team to participate in every rally as far as I know (at least some teams don't do the entire calendar on the WRC).

I'm waiting to see if Stefanovic really has cars that are ready... if he does then there is ZERO excuse to keep him out.

The FIA has demonstrated already that they can't tell a good plan from a bad one, just look at USF1, and I don't mean back in April or May, but already in November USF1 were well on track to FAIL.

If Stefan GP has complete cars then that makes it easier for the FIA imbeciles to figure out what could happen, you know, cars going 'VROOM - VROOM' that go racing with other vroom-vroom cars.

This is how the 107%-rule was once explained by the evil twins;

FIA President Max Mosley said that "any small team which is properly organised will be able to get within the the 107 per cent margin". The sport's commercial rights holder, Bernie Ecclestone, agreed with this sentiment, saying in an interview that "Formula 1 is the best. And we don't need anything in it that isn't the best."

Can make you laugh your pants off, no?

Raz

There is more than only cars to be awarded (or not) an entry to the F1 championship.

And that would be?

To make it easier for me to understand, answer with USF1 as an example so that it is clear and on topic.

It's a slow death but its almost complete. USF1 were a disgrace from the very first moment.

Lets hope sanity prevails and Stefan GP are granted the place.

I had to join to say thank you to the people on this thread for all the insights and for the links.

This thread has kept entertained for the better part of a month!

Wow USF1 have imploded like the USS Thresher.....just wow

As for USF1 being able to make it to the Spanish Grand Prix, I think that the investors and the fans have been burned way to many time's to fall for that one.

+1

A team like USF1 could have certain positive attributes that could mollify the powers that be to (sort of) overlook the fact that they will miss the first 3 or 4 races. For example their USA presence, not that I'd necessarily agree with it, but I could imagine.

At the same time a team could have certain negative attributes that would prompt FIA to not grant an entry to the F1 championship, although the team might have the cars to race.

Are you sure Stefan is legit? Wasn't there a story a couple of weeks ago that Toyota cars were back on sale cause Stefan hadn't paid them anything?

I mean it's pretty easy to make a deal to buy a ready made car and claim you 're ready to race but ... are they really?

I think your correct to be sceptical about Stefan GP to a degree as there is still some mystery surrounding them. However in comparison to USF1....who don't even have anything resembling a complete car yet....its a no brainer.

So long as Stefan has their shit together as we are lead to believe....I'd have them in instead.

Just like in Football there is "fit and proper" rules that the competitiors need to satisfy. Qadbak fizzled out and with reports of Stefanovic making his money in the weapons trade that could make life hard for Stefan GP. The FIA wouldn't want some future scandal about weapon smuggling involving F1... Stefanovic might have clean hands and end up being admitted instead of USF1. But if there was another reason, apart from their business plan, behind them being rejected last time around, the FIA will still have that information...

And having Mike Coughlan on the team would not win any favours from Todt. I guess Todt still remembers Spygate...

We might end up with the following scenarioes:

USF1 closing and the FIA not accepting Stefan GP (and face new court cases from Stefanovic).
USF1 being granted the opportunity to miss 4 races (which means that the FIA really prefers USF1 over Stefan GP)
The FIA rejecting USF1's request and accepting Stefan GP

Having two cars is NOT enough to be admitted, you have to have all the other pieces as well (and I am NOT saying that USF1 has that right now).

Yeah, typical political crappola..

Everyone already figured out the FIA doesn't want Stefanovic... but Bernie wants it to happen so I guess there's going to be some fireworks and entertainment in general.

The most hilariously pitiful thing is USF1 seems keen to keep on demonstrating bad decision-making on the FIA's part... they, and you, can try to separate the issues of Stefan GP and USF1 all you want, fact is there is people, including heavyweights, that will invariably attempt to link them.

USF1 the biggest joke in F1 history. They would have been better sticking to their inferior junk called Nascar. The good thing is we don't have to listen to the USA! USA! Chants

AFAIK the kit wasn't back on sale but there was a rumor that Toyota haven't been paid...

IMO that's just a shot at Stefanovic (which he may deserve, he's shady no question), the point is surely the Toyota stuff doesn't have the same value whether it has an entry or not..

Surely Stefanovic wouldn't pay the same if he uses the kit exclusively for those testing purposes he was talking about, if he would pay at all..

'sfar as I know, there is no involvement in USF1 by the US government. Stefan GP has the backing, apparently, of the Serbian government....

I guess you are not following the Olympics much these days then? With each nations athletes being cheered on and nations competing against each other.

The mods have warned posters on this thread several times against these anti American sentiments.

Exactly what I was trying to say, although I think the Coughlan situation can be dealt with by one informal remark, an off the record "ditch Coughlan and you're in" will have Mike's ass out of the team before he can say stolen IP again

Personally I'd like to see your second scenario to come true, USF1 in the F1 championship (even it would miss a few races) but only after it's abundantly clear that they will make it this time around.

USF1 was a gimmick which under the right circumstances, management and guidance could have worked out. It was tapping in a pretty much huge market, if they sold it right they could have made a go of it.

As it transpired they didn't




It's not about what he has (or will have to) pay ... I mean can he fund the team himself (plus whatever the serbian gov supposedly will give him) ... and even if he can, can he put a team together in a month? It's not just about buying 2 chassis, 3 sets of spares and 10 engines even if they can buy that. Anyways, I don't really know the guy, I just get that mental image of a used car salesman that will sell you a Ferrari with a Lada engine and no gearbox as a unique collectible item. Or something.

Hasn't Mosley already addressed the situation of Coughlan (and Stepney), something abouth McLaren and Ferrari being in love together so there was no point <insert whatever Spanky said here, I don't remember>?

As for the second part you're clearly a dreamer, a FIA bootlicker ( ) and not a race fan.. who wouldn't want to see how competitive those ex-Toyota are?

Ken Anderson is a joke, he'll never deliver.. you know it and I know it.

There's a 4th option.

Stefan buys USF1 giving Anderson and Windsor a way to get out before they loose the farm, Stefan get's an entry and there's nothing the FIA can do about it.

Let's give USF1 another chance...

Bahrain 2011!

It's a retarded option though... it amounts to someone paying for an entry that should belong to him.. a ready competitor embracing and passing the sponge on the failure of a would-be competitor just to be included in the championship.

All of that assuming Stefanovic is for real though.. It is yet to be established that he can deliver, but it is also unclear whether he's the child-eating monster some people makes him up to be..

You're kidding, right? You think the FIA can't do anything about it because he buys somebody else's entry? Given that there are, essentially, 'right and proper person' checks in place, the FIA would have to ok any takeover of an entry.

I just don't follow this idea that, because USF1 look like they aren't going to make it, somehow bringing in some shady indiividual with no pedigree in racing at all (unless someone can enlighten me...?), with no outline of how the project will be funded, who will be running the team etc. etc. would eb a good thing for F1... What, just for the sake of having 2 extra cars on the grid, regardless of how competently the team is run? Same with the Kolles takeover at Campos..... we're talking about adding two teams t the grid which will likely add nothing to the competitiveness of F1, and might prove to be an embaressment.

Sorry to tell you but the chant will be go Ferrari... I mean go USF1! Nascar has a great business model, I do not watch it, but you cannot deny how popular it is with the fans that follow it. How many times has Bernie said look at the way Nascar does it, we need to be more like that for the fans.

I am going to be honest, with all that has happened this year, FOTA wars, rule delays, etc. If Campos needs to miss races to be stable, then let them miss some races. If Virgin needs more time to be sorted, same thing, let them miss. Lotus, the same! I care about seeing these teams race next year as well, and the year after that. Not just this year, so if missing three races means that they will race for 100's all the better.

I am not convinced yet that Campos can make the grid on time, or in the shape that they need to be in for the first race. They could make free practice and not actually race on Sunday. Stefan as well, we really do not know what he has in the way of spares, cars, etc. (He can always merge to make SerbUF1)

We have seen in the past teams that were long established show up with old cars, or interim cars, or miss races as well. It is silly to punish these four new teams and risk the safety of the drivers and crowd if something fails on the car from not being sorted. Roughly 13 days until the cars need to be shipped off to the first race, best of luck to Campos for pulling that off.

I disagree.. let's wait to see how the Stefan GP test goes... oh wait.. people don't even want to sell him tires so we can see what he can really do..

What I'm seeing is that some people dislike the figureheads of some teams before they've been GIVEN THE CHANCE to demonstrate they can deliver.

(plus, the Dallara could well prove to be a solid car.. wtf are you on about, seriously?)

Just pull the plug already, F**king Hell we've had enough of their crap saying "oh things are going fine and dandy" then the next moment their moaning like effing girls on their periods.
It's done Windsor just sod off, you wont achieve success in Formula One, just leave the rest of F1 in peace & let teams who at least have a car to get your spot and give us some RACING your team obviously can't provide that because it hasn't even got a complete car! That's all I've got to say on this matter, replace USF1 with Stefan at least they seem like they've got some stuff sorted, even if some fans think Stefan are a bit dodgy I'm sure they'll provide some entertainment ;)

Nuff Said.

Ferrari and McLaren became friends after Todt left. If you recall back to Spygate, it was Todt that was furious with McLaren. I still think Todt remembers back to Spygate and Coughlan. If he will let that influence his decisions is a totally different matter though.

Serbian goverment is even a bigger joke than USF1. I'm fom Serbia and I don't think they are involved. If they were it would be in a newspaper.

But it's not what I was talking about... I knew well about what you just said..

I'm trying to find a quote from Mosley that the 'sanctions' on Coughlan and Stepney were lifted, there was an article on Autosport and all... he justified it by saying there was no point to still be punishing them since Ferrari and McLaren were now in bed together, or something to that effect.

there I found it: http://www.autosport.com/subs/login.php?r=...ws&id=73154

(boo! on Autorsport having put the archive on subscription basis)

One can learn a lot from the movies, how can one forget Henry Fonda's smug attitude when he's pulling a gun to Bronson's face in "Once upon a time in the west", simply saying "End of the line"?

Or when pacino is trying the get the better of de niro in "Heat", by just presenting; "Ok, this is what I do, that's what you do".

God as well as the devil, is always in the details, I can move myself around in Oslo by sheer attitude, but I'm certain that Roger Penske or T onyGeorge would easily have me m<ded with a very very simple background check.

True, anyone can claim they have involvement, but there is no evidence. The lease is not even paid right now! lol

JML still seems to be out in the wind right now as well, so I hope something works out for the best for him. Test driver for Campos would kind of suck (when do they actually get to drive?), but his money should grant him a drive. Who knows yet what Kolles is going to do, he told us to wait a week.

Never say Tony around here, we are still angry at him for the whole CART debacle. lol

“The other day we got a letter from the lawyers of one of them saying he has got this restriction and this restriction, and it does seem a little bit mad to make them serve out even longer when the two teams concerned are all making love to each other,” Mosley said. “So, we have said we will let them forget it. In the end they were just very minor players. If the full story came out, they are two minor players and there are people who are not minor players. But the full story will probably never come out.”

is the actual quote

I know about the sanctions. My point was that it is probably not helping Stefan GP to have Coughlan (regardless of sanctions being lifted) when Todt is the FIA president. He might not use it as a official explanation, but it might influence his opinion of the team and makes him put more emphasis on the negative aspects (if any) of Stefan GP's application...

Granted, it's not up to Todt to accept or deny applications single handedly (but I'm sure his opinion has a influence...).

Sources told AutoWeek that the team is backed by SIEPA, or the Serbia Investment and Export Promotion Agency, whose role is to promote business in the country. It describes itself as "a government organization dedicated to effectively helping foreign investors and buyers, while raising Serbia's profile in the minds of international business decision-makers. Created in 2001 by the government of the Republic of Serbia, SIEPA's mission is to support foreign companies seeking to set up or expand in Serbia and Serbian companies when doing business worldwide

You spend much time in Oslo?

Hence the FIA should be made to have to explain those kind of decisions...

-why they reject a team (Stefanovic eats babies and rapes zebras with guns, and he employs Coughlan)

-why they accept a team (Anderson deserves a little more time than others, he's not the sharpest tool in the box, but he did manage to turn Windsor into a mute.)

They call that transparency.

USF1 to get 4 race extension. They'll make it

Yes interesting that all the info is coming from Ken lately, I guess that new autoclave keeps PW really silent.

Four races buy them until May, still not much time.

We all have views on the dodgy selection process that resulted in such a strange choice for the eight extra grid spots.

With new management in place, we've all got to hope that this is the last dubious deal the FIA get's involved in.

Nevertheless, the four new teams all signed on the line to compete from March 2010, and right up to this week they've all been saying there was absolutely no problem.
Now we find that, at the very least, USF1 were being economic with the truth. Turns out that they and Campos were just a bunch of chancers without the resources to guarantee their entry

How could the FIA given them the slots ahead of the others ? What kind of Due Diligence did Moseley & Co undertake ?

I'm sure this situation would never have happened if Martin Birraine and Dave Richards had got the places that went to Campos and USF1.


But we are where we are : In my view, if any F1 team fails to make the grid at race 1, they should lose their entry, period. No argument, just out.
The Stefan team are the only outfit who are committed enough to be ready to go by having bought the Toyota cars.
This was an option that was open to Campos and USF1 which would have enabled them to meet their obligations.

The Serbians should get the USF1 grid spots. What have the FIA got to lose by giving them a run ?

Here is their website: http://www.siepa.gov.rs/site/en/home/

How times have changed: when Arrows were having problems, no one was sympathetic. They were driven out of F1. Now F1 is courting teams which cannot even assemble one car with $20 million and in 12 months.

If they FIA allow this they are a bunch of pussies.

They had enough time to make it so bye bye, time for another team to enter which does take it serious.

the FIA rules are clear miss one race face penalties.
FOTA/FOM said miss 3 races and you are out.
now we have a team saying we want to miss 4 races.
At what point does anyone expect them to really even keep to that timescale?
i would expect with USF1 that we would get to the third race and they would start saying we need to miss a couple more.
IMHO the best thing for this team is either to merge or move out of the way other teams are far better perpaired to meet the deadlines that USF1 are incapable of meeting.
We the fans deserve a full grid not an almost full grid and hollow promises.
IMHO the FIA should tell USF1 miss 4 and you are out further more they should set deadlines for the team to meet for such things as getting funding in place and proving such funding is real, also crash testing and shakedown/track testing should also have time limits miss one and sorry you are out.
No ifs no buts enough is enough we the fans deserve more than this.

oh yes, times have changed - look at the economy.

and how do you know that the others had a strong financial backing to buld a 2010 formula 1 race car in addition to providing race operations throughout the world for an entire season?

I was sad to see Arrows go, not sure what it is worth, but there you go.