The reasoning is that due to the business model of using subcontractors for much of the fabrication, they'll save more than enough to offset the shipping. By applying this business model they will be able to save, at least for now, the hard costs of infrastructure that F1 teams typically accrue when starting up from scratch. This sort of model has been used by race teams in the US with varying degrees of success in sports cars, circle track and drag racing. Also shipping the new parts to cars at the race typically happens when all the trucks have left and the parts are shipped in for Fri practice or in some cases fabbed from Fri data and delivered for Sat quals. Engine and electronics will be supported trackside, things like brakes, plumbing and cooling, shocks and springs are available readily prior to or in some cases at the track. They'll only need to concentrate on spares for the cars and I don't see them having the funds to rework the car as much as say a McLaren or Ferrari might. I'd reckon that except for the chassis/tub, engine and ECU that most of the other bits will be off the shelf race equipment. No refueling rigs should also help them out in cost and logistics.

That. It'll work. Maybe not for success or seaon long progress, but it will get them on the grid. Stop being so pessimistic people. We want teams in, don't we?

Insulting people en masse always helps them see your perspective!

It's better than the total and complete denial of reality that has perpetuated this thread.

Consider this:

If USF1 were so utterly intent on leading the world astray by renting out a facility, filling with with large, heavy and very expensive machinery while at the same time they are able to create CFD models of their car, establish a secondary base on the other side of the world and convice entrepeneurs to invest in and engineers to join their team ... if they can afford to do all of that for the sake of whatever vague and nefarious end-goal you people all seem to have in mind, surely they'd be able to build a team, right? Since they've already got the stuff they need and the people in place to make it happen, after all. I mean it's just a thought.

All these wild suppositions that Windsor and Anderson intend to sell everyone short by auctioning off the team to mak a profit is like the theory that Manor was in league with Max Mosley, who would give them a discreet technical veto to gain control over the rules. There's absolutely no proof of it. I'm really quite impressed that you people can come up with this stuff. Impressed, and a little concerned.

Show me definitive proof that USF1 is a hoax, scam, fraud, idle pipe dream or whatever you want to call it - because fifty bucks says there isn't any.

Why didnt they agree to forbid selling of the free slots for next year. They are the only ones who vetoed it. And they should have been testing all year if they were planning this ages ago. Still no word on purchasing of trucks and motorhomes. Not many staff at all yet. Lotus has hundreds as well as pictures of car in the wind tunnel. It all smells bad.

I doubt it's fraud/scam. If nothing more than because Peter Windsor is so invested in the F1 Paddock. He'd be comprising his reputation, his journalism job, and etc. etc...

If USF1 does fail it'd definitely be for some other reason, either going into the project overconfident, underestimating the challenge, or incompetence or whatever. But I seriously doubt it's just a Get Rich Quick scheme.

Still not proof that they're in trouble, much less intended to withdraw from the beginning. If they didn't agree to forbid selling spots, maybe it's because they're worried for one of the other teams. Maybe they disagreed with the wording of it. Maybe they were opposed to being unallowed to sell teams because Brawn is said to be selling a 75% stake to Mercedes, and having one rule for one team and another for someone else is how we got into the political mess earlier this year.

There's plenty of explanations, and none of them are indicative of an intent to withdraw.

Testing what all year? The entry wasn't accepted until June, they didn't have most of the funding until July and the facility wasn't done until a month or so ago. How were they to make a car during that time when the rules package and new Concorde wasn't finalized until just over 3 months ago? Should Manor, Campos or Lotus have been testing as well prior to the rules being finalized?

Are you serious basing the stability and intent of a team on if they have purchased transport equipment yet? And how do you know they haven't?

How about this one?...
http://www.motorsportads.com/transporters-lorries/16760.html

or this one?
http://www.motorsportads.com/transporters-lorries/18652.html

And that's not counting the transporters that may be for sale from BMW or Toyota.

The speedtv video with Peter Windsor and Steve Matchett showed a mold being machined for the car. If that is not proof that the team is progressing on its work, i don't know what is. Around the same time as that video showed up or was shot, we had photos of lotus f1 also getting their mold ready for the car. That tells me that as a new team, USF1 is at least as much on schedule as Lotus F1 team (who curiously are seen as a more serious effort) if not more.

In reality all the negative reports about USF1 has come out of only one press source (auto-motor-und-sport and its f1 correspondent Michael Schmidt) and other press sources seemed to have picked on that. I am surprised that no one has noticed that common thread (Michael Schmidt) so far. May be someone should question him as to what he has against the American outfit (or against Peter Windsor?!) as opposed to questioning the viability of USF1....

Did you not read the interview with USF1 in my previous post on this page of the thread???

What was Andersons reply to that?



This was from another German website that in between the lines critisized Auto Motor und Sport for their negative press campaign against USF1. It's AMuS (read Schmidt) that thinks it's naive that they can build a car in Charlotte. Motorsport Total mentions that it is the motorsport capital of the US and has lots of fabrication facilities close to the USF1 base. In addition to their own manufacturing capabilities.

It's amazing how some people systematically fail to consider the information available, including video and interviews with USF1, but still try to question them based on rumours and opinion. Which of the other new teams do we have as much positive information from (positive statements from the team managers that they are not selling, video tours of the factory that shows manufacturing and design process at advanced stage, FIA impressed by facilities, etc.)?

Didn't anybody read the interview with Anderson that I posted?
http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?s=&a...t&p=3984539

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WrgxeHC228

Test the difference.

Exactly, the whole Speed TV USF1 thing was scripted, it is insulting our intelligence Peter Windsor not knowing Matchett was turning up and his surprised reaction, the cameraman was waiting insie Windsor's office so Windsor knew he was coming, then the tour bit too was all good acting

Okay, so because the USF1 factory doesn't look like the Red Bull factory, it's clearly a fake? Perhaps USF1 have more pressing concerns on their hands than making a facility that looks like a space station, like maybe builing a Formula One car?


Idiots are so much fun. No wonder every village wants one. What's going to happen when USF1 show up in Bahrain? Are you going to claim that it's really just a compute-generated image of a car that has been inserted into the broadcast?

Okay, yes, the opening was scripted. And Peter Windsor probably knew what questions Matchett would ask. But that doesn't mean it's all acting. Because if Peter Windsor is indeed the moron you all make him out to be, then he's clearly not intelligent enough to be able to pull of a scam.

Speed are going to spin it to make Windsor and USF1 look good in the broadcast, they pay Windsor wages and send him round the F1 circus so they are not going to show anything in the broadcast that makes USF1 look bad or their F1 efforts questionable so they simply showed the good bits, we do not know about the rest

Okay, so you're clearly getting to the point where you're going further and further out on a limb. On the one hand, there is the single idea that USF1 have supplied evidence to show they are making their car and will arrive in Bahrain. On the other hand, we have you - and a few others - making dozens and dozens of convulted explanations to explain it all away as a hoax, fraud or scam. I'm sorry, but you've past the point where you have any credibility.

Yep.

I have said previously in this thread that I believe they are making the effort to make the grid but they are so far behind schedule that it is unlikely, I don't believe that it is a scam but all I have seen so far makes me think Andrea Moda USA and that Windsor will make a statement saying "because of the economic conditions funding has been difficult to come by......"

I'm really pulling for USF1. Im percieving a 3 - 5 yr plan. If they meet their internal milestones during that time period then they will continue for the long term. However, if the milestones are not met I can quickly see this team becoming a Jordan, Midland, Spyker, Force India type deal.

Windsor does seem to accumulate enemies. I suppose the most famous would be his sour relationship with Eddie Irvine which Windsor just couldn't let go of even when writing columns that nothing to do with Irvine. Some of his interviews on SPEED have dripped with sarcasm and occasional open hostility. Perhaps this Schmidt fella has had a falling out with him.

and if that happens, so what?...
and that goes for the other teams as well.. If they failed due to lack of funding its not their fault really.. finding sponsors in these tough times is not that simple.

If anything USF1 should be better prepared since they are the only of the original 3 new teams that was prepared to enter with or without the FIA proposed budget cap.

A half hearted effort should not be rewarded with £20-40m in Windsor's bank account, if Windsor can't make the grid the grid slot should be stripped from him and he not profit from it

That supposes that someone is able and willing to buy the slot. For your stated price of US$40-80 mil, who is in a position to pay that AND be far enough along with the car development to make it to Bahrain? The only hope is Sauber and with Toyota going and possibly Renault those new spots resale value (if they were allowed to sell) dropped to basically nothing. Some here can't get past the red mist they have for either Windsor or the US and that bias is very apparent.

Did NO ONE read the interview with Anderson where he categorically denied that USF1's place on the grid was for sale???? And he went on to say that if it had been, who would be interested? It is now too late for anyone to buy that grid slot and set up a team for next year.

I don't know what are you talking about my friend. You are coming up with a bunch of speculations based on nothing. Haven't others teams in the past 10 years pull out due to lack of funding?

You're not alone - he has no idea what he's talking about, either.

on the speed channel's wind tunnel show nick craw was the guest tonight only caught the last few minutes of interview

dave asked him about manufactures leaving f1 and possibility of us f1 race also asked him about usf1 team here is summary from nick craw


- not worried that manufactures are coming and going says that is part of sport etc...

- on possibility of f1 back in states says that the only possibility is f1 returning to a street circuit says that there are 3 metropolitan areas being looked at wouldn't say which cities ( my guess long beach ?....)
- and indy is not an option for f1 so it will have to be street circuit

- on USF1 says that he was at the factory twice and he is satisfied with the progress also says that 10 days ago usf1 submitted their entrance fee check

Nick Craw, newly named President of the FIA Senate stated in an interview with Dave Despain on Wind Tunnel this evening that 10 days ago USF1 paid entry fees totaling US$440,000 for the 2010 Formula One season. Those fees are non refundable and non transferable.

On edit, looks like I was beaten to the post

I'm sure the haters will have an examplation for that one. Like it being a bribe to make FOM and the FIA look the other way and say nice things about them.

I think the difference lie in Bush's experience racing in a car very different. I understand karts are not F1 cars, but Kimi didn't have to ignore everything he learned prior, his cars and their setup bore greater resemblance. Top class sprinters and marathon runners are all great runners, but that doesn't mean one can do the others job just as well, just like that.

It would be nice to know who else paid that entry fee as it was required by the FIA no later than Nov 1st..

yeah would be interesting but dave had to cut to break and end the interview

Captain I think you're getting carried away, there are one or two people baiting you guys and they obviously have a deep personal hatred for Windsor or America.

Everyone else just seems to be displaying a healthy dose of cynicism, and/or interest in the team.

It's November ninth here. Which makes it November eighth in America. Which meant USF1 would have paid their entry fee on the twenty-ninth or thirtieth of October, two days ahead of the deadline. If you're suggesting that someone paid it for them because they couldn't do it themselves or something, I'm willing to bet a lot of teams leave it for the time being. And given the amount it csts to get a team off the ground these days, $440,000 is small change.


I get the cynicism, eve if I don't agree with it. It's just one or two people dragging the rest of you down.

Well for one thing you should loosen up as slideways hinted at, and secondly my point wasn't about casting doubt on the USF1 payment... I'm just curious about the (other) new teams having made this payment or not..

Like you say it should be a formality, but considering the rumors flying around It'd be nice to know, thats all.

You'll have to forgive me - I have an exam on Friday that I'm super-nervous about; if I don't pass the subject, I don't get to graduate. I've been jumping at small noises for days. I'm trying to chill out by taking a moment online, but I'm still wound pretty tight. I missed your use of the word "else" in your post; I read it as "it would be nice to know who paid that entry fee" and figured you were questioning who in the actual team had been the one to front the money.

I figure all the others would have paid by now. The money was due on November first, but does that mean that there is no extnded deadline that would come with a serious penalty for having missed the original one? Because if last Sunday was their only chance and someone missed it, we'd know about it by now. The only team I think the FIA might make provisions for - like an extended deadline - would be Lotus. I know they haven't signed the Concorde Agreement as yet, so as to concentrate on getting their project off the ground, so maybe the FIA is willing to be a little more lenient in their case if they asked for a bit of extra time.

No worries, good luck on the exam.

The FIA rules don't seem to offer any flexibility on that payment, but then again it wouldn't be a first for the FIA to ditch their own procedures.. it's admitedly an unique situation with Toyota breaching the Concorde and Sauber waiting for a slot to receive his money from obscure people..

I think defaulting on the payment could effectively hand the slot to a team on the reserve list (to Sauber) but I'm not sure... apparently Campos is freaking out, but knowing his team wouldn't make it doesn't say if it's better for him to still have paid this fee or not, for instance..

If Campos can sign Bruno Senna and establish a deal with the Murcia govenrment to build a base of operatons, I don't think it's as bad as could be. He's the only one form ehom the entry fee might be a problem; he's said to be on a budget of forty-eight million (I don't know if that's in dollars, Euros or pounds), so an entry fee of $440,000 is about 1% of his budget. It's still small change, but it's not as small as the other teams might have. Then again, maybe the entry fee is directly proportinate to a nominated budget or something ...

Nah it's a fixed amount.. unless it's been amended in the Concorde agreement.

I can't stand Windsor but despite that cock I DO want to see USF1 succeed, I am not baiting I am merely sceptical about how far down the road they are as Michael Schmidt is a highly respected journalist not GMM or anything, Schmidt is probably one of the Top 3 big guys so if he says there is problems then it is wrong not to take notice and ask questions about the progress of USF1

I want to see them on the grid but if the greatest engineer of modern times (Ross Brawn) says they are 2 months behind on crash tests and one of the worlds most respected F1 journos says they have not applied for ECU codes or anything then it is right to question the progress of USF1

If these reports were from GMM I would laugh at them but Michael Schmidt is not a known fantasist

Interesting article in GPWeek, interview with Windsor and some interesting observations on the Auto Motor und Sport articles...:

http://www.gpweek.com/PDF/GP071.pdf See page 10 for USF1 article.



So they have bought transporters from Brawn, they have done crash testing, they have not voted for selling grid places and are committed to F1. And it seems to confirm my earlier suspicions about Schmidt and AMuS.

haha, wow, he pretty much touched on every single point brought up against them. Touche, Mr. Windsor.

Michael Schmidt is still going at USF1 in his latest blog where he gives points from 5 to 1 for the tops and flops of the season:

http://blog.auto-motor-und-sport.de/schmid...ars-der-jahres/

Schmidt gives 1 point to:



Translated:



In my view, Schmidt really has NO credibility when it comes to his views on Williams and USF1 anymore. Dear Schmidt, Saubers problems are created by BMW and how they have treated the team. And how do you KNOW that at least three teams will quit the sport in 2011????

The fact that he writes that USF1 is a NUISANCE clearly shows what he thinks of them. What is it about USF1 that makes them a nuisance Mr. Schmidt? Is it your own ideas about crash tests and thats it naive to build a car in the motorsport capital of the USA, Charlotte?

Interestingly enough it's only USF1 that gets this kind of response from Mr Schmidt. Nothing about Campos (who reportedly is flying all over Europe to sell his team), Manor (who are basing their whole design on CFD simulation and not using the wind tunnell at all) or Lotus (which already are in trouble with FI over design rights).

Mr Schmidt seems to have an agenda against USF1. If that is because of bad feelings towards Windsor or USA I don't know but he looses his credibility from this. If he only wrote something factual (negative or positive) but this is just his personal ramblings (which also seems to have no foundation in reality).

He seem to be prejudiced against ALL the new teams, given the way he mentions three will most defiantely be leaving in 2011. First I've heard of it.

I thought Schmidt was the most respected and reliable journalist in F1?

Be weird if he suddenly abandons the form of a lifetime to shitbag USF1.

The context of that translation isn't really 100% accurate. He writes that everyone should be happy about a 14th team - because by 2011, three times might have left the sport by then and teams such as Sauber are better poised to meet the challenges of the coming years.

So did I actually. I have always considered him as a respectable and reliable source. Other German media are now reporting the USF1/Windsor/Anderson denial story, which kind of puts AMuS in a bad light (since they are being held responsible for the rumours).

To me, there are two possibilities:

1. AMuS / Schmidt knows something about USF1 (and the other teams since he is sure that three teams will quit next season..) that they are not at liberty to write publically yet. If that is the case, and they know that whatever USF1 says, they (AMuS) know what the truth is and can still write that USF1 is a hoax.

2. Schmidt / AMuS has decided, for some reason, that USF1 is a load of hot air and we are going to write negatively about them whatever the team says. We will not interview USF1 or listen to what they say. AMuS and Schmidt know better than USF1 what the truth is...

And, frankly it seems like option two is the most likely. The latest report about the sale of the USF1 team comes from AMuS. That was denied first by by Anderson and then in an interview with Windsor by GP Week, were it was said that neither the team, or it's grid place, is for sale under any circumstances. Anderson further elaborates that even if they would have wanted to sell the grid place, who would want to buy it at this stage? There is simply not enough time for a new team to start now. And if they wanted to sell it to Sauber, wouldn't it have been better to do so before Toyota pulled out and before it became risky if Qadbak would still buy the team? This does not prevent Schmidt from repeating his suspision in this regard in his blog of today. Completely without any reflections or thoughts with regards as to who would be a possible buyer at this point...

AMuS also reported that USF1 had not wanted to vote against the possibility to sell the grid places. This has also been denied by USF1, and in such a manner that if what USF1 say was a lie, then surely some of the other FOTA members would have called the bluff and leaked some information to the press?? If you are lying, make sure that there are no one who can call your bluff as easily as that. USF1 has the most credible version of this story in my view.

Then it's the story about the crash tests. According to USF1 they have completed crash tests. Who should we believe? A journalist that hasn't spoken with the team (apparently) or the team?

USF1 have also bought some of the trucks/transporters from Brawn and are refurbishing them. Why would they do that if it was just a hoax?

And, according to the FIA, they have also paid the $440.000 fee to participate next season (had to be paid by the 1st of November).

It seems like Schmidt doesn't take any of the above, or all the other facts, into consideration when making claims about USF1. Why does he say they are a nuisance? Why does he think it's naive to build a F1 car in Charlotte, the motorsport capital of the US, when Sauber builds them in Hinwil, Switzerland?

At the moment it seems like AMuS is the only source of those negative comments about USF1. I am very disappointed that Schmidt seems to be on a personal vendetta against the team as he used to be such a credible journalist.

If the team shows up and has a decent car, built in Charlotte, what will Schmidt then say? At the moment the stakes are very high for him with what he has written. If the team fails, he will be proven right of course, and gain some credibility for calling the bluff. If, however, the team shows up he will look like a very stupid man (a bit like Howett and FOTA's claims of creating a breakaway series when seen in todays situation...).

The word used by Scmidt is "bestimmt" which translates to:

certainly, definitely, surely, no doubt, positively

A bit stronger than "might"...

Well it will be strange if team principal suddenly said "you know yeah we want to make a sting of a century".

I said it many times where does they found money on all that stuff? It's minimum 60-70M bucks. Who will be philanthropist?

Opinionated articles from motorsport journos are useless for me - (Windsor has written so much crap about Lewis in the past that I just ignore all that BS..) same with this Smicht fellow who most probably has something against PW. The British bashing Alonso and the Spanish bashing Lewis.. Its all the same deal.

They should all just stick to "reporting" news.. -