no you are not you are inventing things based on your biased viewpoint.
If anything its your claims against me that are libelous claiming i have said things i clearly have not said yes i am sure you know what that is called in a court of law.

I agree with this position. I am an American and I can't see USF1 being anything but an embarassment.

I feel little for the FIA, they are run by a bunch of committees, the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing. AND they don't understand how money works! From day one BE said they wouldn't fly...and he was right as usual; I hate to admit it; but he was spot on.

In a smart world would you not stop the team and sit them down, explain to them then, that they are going to fail if they do not make corrections. Based on the history of the sport, the FIA should know what to look for. The new teams should get a guide - "How to find a sponsor!", and a video "You first autoclave".

Or do you let them fail, make a mockery of the sport. Or is it easier to just play dumb the whole time and not give a care, wait for a new entry in 2011?

Of course we have some evidence that Bernie probably got involved with helping throw Lopez their way. This is just a weird year, the global economy is still a bit goofy and currency is all over the place. So it is also easy to blame the economic climate for the new teams trouble, and if we lose some current teams as well this year which is still possible (Renault, Sauber, Force India). Virgin having a paid test driver even!

Granted I think USF1 and Campos had problems much bigger than we yet know. Citi has had some weird problems and made the news today again, something about adding a clause that they can withhold withdrawals from a checking account for up to 7-days. So they were probably a bad main sponsor to hold all your cards with, evidence is suggesting they were probably just that (main sponsor that is for USF1). It could be everything was great in the team, then they got the news (remember that 3-year deal we promised? Sorry, survey says we can't do it anymore), they started looking for other sources of revenue and just got slammed doors. I wonder if they tried to only find US based companies and this was just another source of a slowdown (too many US companies already in F1, so who are you going to get, can you really steal AT&T away from Williams?) They did so many things wrong as well going back to the start from a PR point of view, not being open, not doing the web cam thing they talked about, not letting fans in to tour the place, etc, etc, etc, media blackout, etc, etc, etc. I was really looking forward to seeing this team in F1, so I have followed it closely from the start. It is a shame that all this happened.

We do not know the full story yet by any means, but chaos in what to do was certainly a major element I have to think. On the design side things might have been fine, a tad over ambitious with the gearbox. They should have hired Swift to make the chassis for a few years, and then concentrate on building out their own factory. Oh well, it gave us a few thousand posts I guess.



I agree that you agree.

Talryyn

At the end of the day, this wasn't an American attempt at F1... maybe in Name and name only... Peter Windsor who pretty much master minded the whole thing is an unamerican as you can get.

When the time is right.. if ever.. i'm sure someone in North America will take a charge at it... Whether it be Penske, Ganassi, Andretti or someone other group will hopefully make a "proper" go of it .. and not a last minute .. hey I have yahoo money.. someone come and help me..

Hmmm... if F1 wasn't a closed shop, if anyone who had a car could turn up then, this mess would never have occurred. USF1 would have been a potential F1 team and if it made it..., whenever it made it, then all well and good, and we could watch their progress. And if they didn't make it then..., they wouldn't make it. They wouldn't have been hijacking a place on a restricted grid, that likely other teams who had better plans might have taken; The likes of Martin Birrane, Dave Richards, Roger Penske, hell even Zoran Stefanovitch could all come to the show anyhows and... may the best man win.

The problem isn't a lack of FIA overview, its the stupid protectionist/ restrictive business model of F1that is the problem. Without that, the failure (or otherwise) of USF1 wouldn't be the issue it has become.

sorry you clearly ignore or don't understand the costs it takes to get a competitive car onto an F1 grid no sponsor/group of sponsors is going to put upto 40M+ with no garantee of ever getting any coverage for their bucks.
to think other is at best unrealistic

Well if the FIA had not dropped the $40mil entry fee, I don't think we would behaving this problem right now. I imagine Campos wouldn't have even been a new entry, EpsilonE or ProDrive, would be occupying their entry. Had USF1 still been an entry then their investors would have probably had much better oversight and tossed KA & PW a long time ago. That and/or they wouldn't have been too keen on bailing with that much invested, this if we believe they ever actually had sponsor's that left. Which then you have to ask what kind of contract they had, and what did USF1 do/not do that allowed the sponsor to bail, with never a word spoken in public.

Possibly you guys saw this in another thread.. but it also deserves to be here, lol

http://www.ferrari.com/English/News/Pages/...la_campana.aspx



That's just the USF1 bit, there's more hahaha, an essay on the relevance of the new teams on the Ferrari website, pure gold lol

Then wtf is StefanGP doing?

They're renting a pair of Toyotas for a cheap price...
So far nothing more than a PR stunt...

Exactly my point. For teams like Virgin and Lotus it would be better for them if they could make their debuts in Europe, wouldn't it? USF1, as I say, either would or wouldn't make it and Stefan GP, if they have the cars, could enter. Simple. No problems. And the likes of Lola and Prodrive could be there too. Simple. And if USF1 makes it - whenever that may be, all well and good; and if they didn't? Then they would be just another failed F1 attempt - not the excuse for all of this wailing and weeping at the unfairness of it all (whichever side of the fence you sit on.)

There's a pretty huge step from renting a couple of chassis somebody else built and shipping them around the world to actually racing those chassis. So ... "could enter" in my mind at least is very debatable.

I think you miss my point. There are alot of people here demanding that USF1 should give up their place so that Stefan GP can have it. That USF1 shouldn't be 'allowed' to miss races. USF1 and Campos-Meta were given entries into F1 by the FIA at the expense of other, more viable, propositions and both have proved disastrous. But, the only reason that Bernie is rushing around having to try and pick up the pieces of these teams is because they are, essentially, franchises - and therefore the failure of the teams becomes a big deal.

I have no more faith in StefanGP as a potential F1 team than you appear to, but, hell, let them try. If they fall by the wayside.... so be it. f USF1 don't turn up until well into the second half of 2010, let them. If VirginGP and LotusF1 feel it would be better for them to test until the Spanish GP... let them; if Martin Birrane/Lola and Prodrive and Epsilon Euskadi can get the funding together... let them.

If they can't then they can't and they won't turn up. So what?

if they varied the number of spots avalible per race based on how many garages there are, it would be pretty cool

theres not garantee another team would of made it either

Yep, out of the three scattered teams, only Dallara seems to be able to build a car.

More insight from MTB: http://murphythebear.com/blog/index.php/20...-have-a-chance/

I think that might be a part of the problem here. USF1 has been receiving negative press for months; it's been criticised almost since it was proposed. People have naturally jumped at the idea that they're on the verge of collapsing under their own weight. While I don't deny they're in trouble, a part of me suspects that things are not as bad as people would like them to be or are making them out to be.

Is it ok if I chime in? What you call "baseless accusations" have been just confirmed by USF1 themselves. What it has been said is based on logical thinking based on these members long experience in following F1. You actually seem to be thinking in a manner that seems not to be aware of the USF1 lack of development and progress and their shortcomings in general.

And as someone else said what's in for the U.S. in being "represented" by such a low league team? Their image -USF1 - is irreparably tarnished. Even if "for divine intervention" they could make it to Bahrain, what would be their point? Just to put the 4 tires on then tarmac?? Is that really worth all their "effort"?

You surely are joking!? Right??

Here we are talking about a team that is broke, has no car running, not even half a car and yet you think the situation is not diabolical?

Think about it this way - even if they made it by the 4th race through a sheer miracle and by rushing some sort of car out, what state would they seriously be in? Would you let that car onto the track? It's clear they have been broke for a while and been months behind schedule....I don't see why everyone isn't arguing that they should be thrown out.

I understand legal ramifications but, that aside, they cannot be let to proceed with this 3 ringed circus just on the grounds of incompetency and safety to all involved. I actually think the worst possible scenario is USF1 being allowed to rush a car out at the 4th race....given what we have seen so far.

Many (including myself) have been pushing for Stefan GP to be let in instead but only if they prove themselves worthy of a place. Otherwise make it one less team on the grid - USF1 are dead and the quicker its buried the better for everyone.

Even if ythey had a decent car, who would bee driving it? To date they don't have any drivers.

No, I'm not. So far all we know for certain is that USF1 has applied to begin the season in Spain. And yes, that finances are tight. But showme an article where someone within USF1 - someone who is named, not simply "a source within the team" - confesses that they have no car, no money, no facilities and nothing but an entry to their name.

My point is that people believe USF1 are up the proverbial creek because they want to believe it.

I AM NOT! I AM NOT! I AM NOT! I AM NOT! I AM NOT! I AM NOT! I AM NOT! I AM NOT! I AM NOT!

No one at USF1 is going to admit they have no money and nothing resembling a car. If your waiting for that then you will still be waiting by the time the championship is over....and USF1 are long dead.

I actually think for you its more about not letting Stefan GP in rather than the actual state of USF1.

Blind Freddy could see USF1 are diabolical. For whatever reason, your obviously praying that isn't the case. Come on....what more proof do you need that USF1 are on the brink of collapse? They have had plenty of time to get their shit together, if anything they have gone backwards.

So what's your real agenda? Because I truly don't believe your that stupid to begin with.

Perhaps it is F1 that needs the enema to cleanse out that 'old stagnant Windsor crap' ?

Sir I would like to thank you for posting this video. I did not know it existed and that should make Mr. MARIO stop blaming the lack of money as the cause for the USF1 failures. I heard Peter saying it and quote: "WE HAVE THE MONEY TO BE PART OF THE CHAMPIONSHIP". I heard the guy saying that they were looking JUST at U.S. drivers plus one EXPERIENCED non American one. I am blown away by this video. Thank you for posting it. Now I know for sure that the guy is a COMPULSIVE LIAR. And yes this video should be used in a court of law.

You're wrong. The anger is about the actions of the guy. He came on our country's sport radio show just before Christmas and said everything was coming along great and they would be testing with the other teams. Well this was not just a bit out but was grossly incorrect. The team were beached, are still beached and couldn't be pulled out of the mud by any power of persuasion. Windsor may have deluded himself to perform this piece of misinformation but he still gave wildly incorrect predictions and has become an unreliable source. USF1 now look unlikely to make any grid in 2010 and Windsor wants Ecclestone, Todt, everybody to believe there are a few minor delays back at the factory. He needs to put up or shut up and leave to make way for some credible group to fill garage 13.

Hey no problem mate and welcome to the wonderful world of Aussie Pete's endless lies & bull****.

I feel offended...

If PW an Co. want to prey on the dreams and passion of American F1 enthusiasts (which they did), they should be prepared to get some grief when things fail spectacularly. This has delt the cause (of American invlovement in F1) a pretty severe blow - and damaged the initial credibility of any American in the near future...

I'm pretty sure that was nothing like their original intentions.

This was posted the day after Christmas...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09A5S9WsA0Q&NR=1

Is this an elaborate hoax?
If not, where did this tub end up?

According to Dieter Rencken, the suggestion as been that while USF1 started building their chassis and made decent progress, they uncovered a fatal, fundamental flaw in the building process that would have effectively rendered the Type 1 so far off the pace that it would have been useless.

Since some people here don't think what Aussie Pete's done is fraud, I just want you to know that I have a business proposition for you. I have decided to start my own F1 team called Frog's F1. As for my CV well I have worked on an orchid pulling machines apart and have directed fruit pickers. Now by using Peter Windsor’s patented CV magnifier that has become a Degree in Automotive Engineering and Expert in Human Resource Management.

Now I can tell you right now that I have the money to go racing in 2011. That’s right we are currently totally 100% ready to go racing in F1. I know, I know I haven't even a build yet to build my cars but that’s okay since I can't be held accountable for anything I say. Since I myself am Aussie, we will be using only Australian drivers. However we might, might just use one experienced non-Australian driver in our first year; might.

Should you my new sponsor’s inquiry to the progress of my new team, I will proudly show you some pictures of a building that we are renovating which is undeniable proof that we are a serious outfit that can produce an F1 car.

We will have webcams set up throughout the Autoclave, letting our fans watch the car being built in real time, offering people unparallel access to my new team. We will also have TV crew constantly filming us to be turned into a documentary latter on.

As for our Technical Director and Chief Engineer, we have brought Ronald McDonald on board. Some might remember Ronald for his failed Falcon Indy car (for those who don't know Google Ken Anderson Falcon Indy car for hilarity!) but I'm sure that legendary failure is firmly in the past for Ronald.

As for a wind tunnel, we have decided that we don't need one and will be using CFD technology like Virgin. However unlike Virgin we don’t have the use of Nick Wirth, we have Ronald instead. I'm 100% sure that Ronald and some of his friends that he has brought on board Hamburglar, Grimace etc will be able to design a competitive car for 2011 and that we will most definitely be on the grid in Bahrain.

Now my little investors pump your money into me and don't you dare think about suing me, for I have not misrepresented my team in the slightest.

Frog, fraud requires intent. If not, then every failed business venture would be considered fraudulent.

I''ll ask agin....where is that tub now? and how could they, or anyone, know that it was "so far off the pace that it would have been useless" until they put some wheels on it, and a motor in it, and tested it?

The tub has probably been destroyed. Wind tunnel tests would have proven it to be flawed.

So and Englishman/Australian has "has delt the cause (of American invlovement in F1) a pretty severe blow - and damaged the initial credibility of any American in the near future"? What a disingenuous statement. I'm an American F1 enthusiast and I don't feel preyed upon by the evil Peter Windsor or Ken Anderson. Don't cry crocodile tears about how this harms chances for Americans when you are completely insincere. I would love for the people who have wanted USF1 to fail from the start to just come out and admit that, and not cloak themselves in statements about how they wanted it to succeed. Am I expected to believe that this thread is so long because of a feeling of great disappointment in USF1 by the majority of those posting in it? Please, do not insult my intelligence.

And yet, as has been pointed out many times by detractors of the team, USF1 never did wind tunnel testing. You can't have it both ways.

You make a good point, but ask yourself this - What do you think the sales pitch to Lopez was to get their hands on some of his sponsorship was?

Even though they knew their chances were practically non-existant, they still promised Lopez a drive and then took his money. To me thats intent.

Maybe they found out in the middle of the build process. Carbon fibre is woven in a certain way to give it maximum strength; for all we know, they realised halfway through the build that they had gone in the wrong direction with it, and consequently the car would fail its crash tests. Or they could have discovered that the CFD modelling they did for certain parts was programmed incorrectly. Honda discovered that their wind tunnels had been incorrectly calibrated halfway through 2008; if tey can find a problem like that, USF1 can, too.


Not if they discovered the aforementioned fatal flaw in the build process after they signed him.

Mate my gut feeling since day one that this has been case of extreme mismanagement & deception. If that was true they could easily issued a statement along the lines "Yes we have a car ready but the carbon fibre was woven incorrectly and we need some more time etc etc here are some pictures blah blah to show our progress and so far we have been reaching our deadlines.”

Instead the silence coming out USF1 was deafening indicating a far larger and deeper problem.

One thing is for sure though, the truth is going to trickle out in the weeks & months to come.

And it's taken USFA1L 52 weeks to come up with what exactly?

Mismanagement, yes. Deception, no. They're not going to admit their own mistakes because it would do more harm than good. Staying silent is a lesser evil.

Their Racng license should be revoked immediatly. FIA should begin reveiwing StefanGP's entry to determine if they are able to participate fully this year.

If they are, give them the 13th spot.

USF1 is a joke. Anderson is a massive joke. Windsor is a deluded fool.

The FIA cannot revoke their licence unless they do something wrong. In order for Stefan to join the grid, USF1 need to willingly give up their licence.

What was this "fatal, fundamental flaw in the building process" that you refer to?
There were no wind tunnel tests, and no driving tests that we know of, so how could anyone possibly detect this sopposed flaw?
Do you have a link to the Deiter artice you refer to?

You figure that they just smashed that tub to smiterines with a sledge-hammer?

Well they are admitting that they cannot show up for four races,which will be in breach of the rules.

So they should be kicked right now imo.

Your proposal sounds very exciting thus I'm willing to sponsor your team with 40 millions[1].

[1] The decision about the currency will be made shortly and at latest by April[2].

[2] What do you mean, April of which year? Am I the f***ing Delphi oracle??

I'm just repeating what Dieter Rencken wrote for Motorsport-Total. The team apaprently found a flaw in the manufacturing process. I don't know what it was or how they found it, but it apparently existed and rendered the chassis useless and put them back a few months.


They can only be kicked out when they do violate the rules. Not becuse they might. The FIA will be powerless to act until the team fails to show up. Right now, the most they can do is tell the team they have to show up at Shanghai.

Err, do you remember which GV that was in? That doesn't sound familiar at all.