Basically Team Chad, LLC or whatever it's called can choose to fund, or not, whomever they'd like. If they decide to stop funding Team USF1, LLC (which it seems they have or at least did) I'm sure there's very little Anderson/Windsor can do about it....legally that is.

The big 'problem' is the long-term lease contracts (assuming the autoclaves, CNC's, etc were leased and not purchased). That's where a lot of Hurley's money would have gone, so I would assume he wants to bring those with him. Obviously bringing those overseas could have all sorts of problems depending on how the equipment leases were written. Who would've thunk they would ever be moved overseas? Another 'assest' is I would again assume Hurley funded the FIA entry fee, but the payment was made by Teams USF1, LLC. So the FIA doesn't recognize Chag Hurley as an entrant, but does recognize Teams USF1, LLC. Of course Chad would want his money back or some compensation; I'd suggest running naked around Silverstone (snaekers allowed of course) for Windsor/Anderson. Chad could sell tickets and get at least some of his money back.

err that race shop isn't going anywhere I would think, certainly not overseas lol!

USGPE is going to survive, only to make toasters due to huge demand now being generated in the media, and shocks for BMX bikes.

Actually, 2 points.

Firstly, LLC stands for Limited Liability Company, not Corporation.

Secondly, an LLC will not protect you only in certain states. Most states recognise LLC's as seperate entities. Clearly you live in one which doesn't. In most US States, members are not liable for acts or debts of the LLC.

My advice? Move to a more business friendly state

You gotta be kiddin' me, DFV. You're like a broken record. Nitpicking and painting it white when in fact it is rotten black.

Ay, I agree to it. Perhaps Todt is taking the spy gate less personal.


BTW Chad taking control, but with less idea of technical RISKS involved is a but of No Go Zone situation, isn't it? He sure can take the business side of it.
Meager with Campos? Chad goes there and USF1 avoids fine that is all there is for USF1 outfit, isn't it?

I'd buy one. Do it as a sideline and then that would help generate a bit of capital. Goodness knows their toasters have had some decent advertising (even if they dont exist).

Ironic isn't it?

4 months ago a cartoon mini-series about USF1 was created and was about making toasters. At this point nobody really knew that the team actually was toast.

Lets hope that something can be resolved. Even if it means that they dont make the 2010 grid but wait until 2011. That would mean this year a 24 car grid (if Campos make it) and if nobody drops out it would be a 26 car grid next year. Obviously it would mean a few heads being lost, however if the situation is monitered correctly by the FIA, then there is a possibility it could happen. The FIA really dont want to lose face, a lot of teams are not going to want StefanGP on the grid.

As long as Nick Craw is not involved and some very credible people are drafted in, then I believe the outfit could be viable for 2011.

It would mean that we have a team from the US with better potential. As long as the right people are in place. Does it matter if the right people are American? I see Virgin as a Sheffield team just because their HQ is in Sheffield. Thats all that is. They can base their HQ in Charlotte and have the factory in Spain (an example).

If they can get the right people on board (well respected members of the F1 community) then they might have a chance with US backing. If for instance they had someone like Ross Brawn onboard, I think they would find it easier to get backing.

I doubt that the FIA would do this, however I do want USF1 to get onto the grid.

If Todt plays this one right, I think he can really win over a lot of people. Admit that USF1 was a mistake on the FIA's part, but use it as a platform to demonstrate the New FIA under Todt's rule.

Thank you for keeping the posting on a objective leve and not resorting to personal attacks...

When I read that Adam Cooper writes that the 1 month delay was requested by KA that, for me has a different meaning than if he had written that delays was caused by KA's inference with the design team.

The first indicates that KA requests that the design team stop the design process for a month.

The other indicates that the design simply got delayed because of KA's constant inference and questioning of the design teams decisions.

Two VERY different scenarioes. I think that it was just bad choice of words from Adam Cooper as it would be strange that a director request a 1 month delay...

And I did not try to paint anything white, I explicitly stated that I wasn't absolving KA from blame as he was the man in charge either way.

Again, thanks for your very constructive post

I know that there are advantages in a Delaware registration. (Like USGPE.)
Is this one of the Delaware advantages?

http://www.corsaonline.com.ar/2010/02/24/N...an-48-horas.php

More news by Friday for Lopez - you gotta love all this more news in 24-hours, 48-hours that we have been getting for months.

DFV, I think you are misunderstanding if you think anyone believes RealKen told "the design team stop the design process for a month".

Rather, because he thought the design of the tub was overcomplicated (and hence too time consuming), he kept referring things back to the design office with the instruction "add simplicity".
This meant that the tub parts were available a month later than they would have been without RealKen's "time saving simplicity".

When your programme is already running late, and you are short of cash, "good enough" is good enough.
The idea is to do the best you can within the constraints of available time and money.
The very best you can possibly do, is utterly useless, if its too late to take part in the race.

Yah, for the sake of racing, just get on the grid and then worry about 2011 - I thought that was the plan anyway? Lots of blame to go around I think, have to wait for the e-book now.

Interesting that McGough admited Pechito told him after visiting USF1 factory on early february that they wouldn't make it for Barhein... also interesting that Bernie recommend them to go for another team rather than USF1, but López didnt have the money asked to join that other team (Virgin? Toro Rosso?) so his only options were USF1 or even Campos, which didnt look much better....

EDIT: http://www.corsaonline.com.ar/2010/02/24/N...a-la-verdad.php

MMM... it seems that López's sponsor were never informed about the situation of the team and had no explanations about this cheap American soup opera... I wouldn't be surprised if one or several of them send López and Co. to hell... McGough and Co. knew what was going on and did nothing...pfff... now I understand Norberto Fontana better than ever...

Look

Forget about Charlie visiting Charlotte, last minute deals, or sponsors from thin air

USF1 is a non starter - forget about it already - the paddock, sponsors and world know

(You think that Windsor doesn't read this forum - I know Bradley does...)

FIA and Bernie don't give a hoot - they have enough teams for a grid for 2010, they until recently had just almost the bare minimim, with other teams beating down their door

Now they have a glut - without that they have the following;

The spectactle of Ferrari-Alonso Vs McLaren-Hamilton Vs Schumacher, Vs Intra team rivalry with Massa, Button, Rosberg plus Redbull-Vettel-Webber...

Plus a couple of novelty new teams

By the second race into the season do you really think that the majority of the F1 globe is going to give two fish fingers if Team USF1 KA/PW made it? Pffff seriously

It's not a Dan Gurney team, it's not an American Lotus or Ferrari

It's a still born, poorly concieved and even worst organised amateur hour effort

Not a reflection on the US, just that the names "Peter Windsor" and "Ken Anderson" will be forever be in the same drawer as "Andrea Moda"

Welcome to the Pirhana club XXX

Nom nom

g

This kind of ending is not surprising at all to me ever since I saw Ken Anderson on Wind Tunnel. The guy couldn't tell (or more accurately mumble) a single coherent thing that made you think he had a plan. I have no idea how that joke of a team ever came about, but building a functional race car couldn't have been part of the plan.

I doubt it. They'll be regarded as a failure, but not of the calibre of Andrea Moda's sheer incompetence and dangerous practices. All USF1 and Andrea Moda have in common is the fact that they're out of their depth - USF1 haven't done things that could kill a driver, haven't used up all their driver changes by the second race, and they haven't brought the sport into disrepute by being involved in crime.

This is where i disagree, the FIA could have easily made the decision from Paris to put USF1 out to pasture with a quick press release about not considering a "4 race extension" until 2011. The only reason CW is in the US is because there is a viable road map on the plate and CW is confirming the technical bits before the FIA makes it's final ruling. At this point as a US F1 fan (just to be clear not a fan of KA and PW) I'm holding out hope that USF1 can make it to the grid and be 4 secs off the pace...because if USF1 make it to the grid they can pick up sponsors and improve the car...

Agreed - I guess Andrea Moda actually made it round a few precarious laps

USF1 never endangered anyone on track - just through their wallet

I don't think you can ever blame a country for a teams failure, what we seem to know is that the people in the factory were/are willing to build a car and make the races. You can not fault them for that, management failed them, and we should know more about that soon enough.

Now if they were given drawings of a car, and made actual toasters, then blame away! No matter where you are, somewhere there is a poorly run company probably failing.

It is sad that this happened, hopefully it will not be repeated anytime soon.

ChessNH, I hear you

So the governing body has the duty to check up on the participants in its championship

If it did so early in the day, would that inspire investment and confidence?

If they did it in the middle of crises and rumours would that be a good thing?

Maybe they should do pay monthly visits to new teams from Nov to Mar - is this wise?



My personal view is that any team that wishes to take part in, for example, Mar 2010, should by Dec 2009 circulate a car around Barcelona within 107% of the time of the 2009 pole time. At least that way you have a car... ready to go, ready for upgrades of some sort (barring rule changes). It shows you have an intent, not that you are based in a tent

That would sort the committed from the Andersons/Windsors

g

That might have spurred them along, knowing that the oversight is there holding you in check. Campos would have been helped in this manner as well. Not so much telling the teams what they are doing wrong, but telling them, based on the history of the sport, we know what you are doing right now is going to cause you to not be ready for the grid. Devils advocate though - maybe the problems inside the management of USF1 would have just laughed off what the FIA was telling them (Who are the FIA to tells us what to do? type attitude), and continued on at their own slow defunct pace.

I like to think that if you apply for a grid slot you know what you are doing, but wow I could have never written a script to predict all this. Campos is still looking scattered as well at this point, it is a hail mary to think you can turn around a team with nothing in two week time - unless everything Kolles said was understated to inflate his image come Bahrain.

BTW 150 Pages!!!

This is an epic topic!!! Plus I don't see it ending anytime soon, unless a mod closes the thread. There's likely more to the story that we STILL don't know about.

Man, I hope you are right...

For me, a great example of how Americans are "can do" was when I was in a gas station just outside Pasadena one time

Some guy's Jeep Cherokee just broke down (electrical)

Every guy on the forecourt approached this guy and gave him a hand and a push etc - one guy saying, "man, I just hate it when a guy doesn't have his car working"

I'm from London, that wouldn't happen there, I doubt it would happen in New York, or Paris or Rome, maybe Madrid

But some Americans just have that "let's make it to the moon" attitude that is so fantastic

USF1 ain't it - It ain't US and it ain't F1

CW would do well to terminate this team before the season starts so that Johnny Public doesn't get involved

g

Don't mistake a lack of managerial skill for a lack of commitment.

Captain Tightpants, I agree with you completely, I'm sure through what we were told, that the Andersons and Windsor were committed to delivering what they promised

But as you say, let's not confuse that commitment for managerial skills

It's clear which overcame the other

The big cities here can be goofy, not all are completely horrible though. Some areas do not have that attitude, but you can see it in the quality of their cities, how they are kept up, etc. It is so neat to see the diversity of our country, I live in a largely German area for example. However, just go door to door and talk with business owners and they are from all over the world, nice to see. You here lots of stories about why they moved here, so it is always nice to see them get their dreams. I have family in Germany and the Netherlands and it is neat to get their take when the come visit. I love to visit over there as well, never had a bad experience in another country.

at those days just days after his failure to join tyrrell.. i just met Fontana, at Alto Palermo Shopping and, i blamed mc gough for that..he said that was not Felipe`s fault.. but i think he, at the distance, realizes that i was right

Oh doode - Right on !

It's all about the (Baskin Robbins) 32 flavours....

Off Topic, Sorry

I love California, and the US

My wife worked there for four years, we also worked in NY, Brazil, Japan, in Spain, in Ireland, the UK, in Italy, Germany and short visits to local regions

We are from London and Amsterdam

Our preference is California... S

Sure, it's a bit F---ed up but all countries (the size of Ca.) are

What we enjoyed was the freedom and the collective Americanism and (forgive me) indulgence!

g

Ahmm 'equipment leases' would be on equipment, not the shop. I'm sure the shop is leased to Teams USF1, LLC and not Chad Hurley's company; again too much liability. Hurley would have set this up for his ultimate protection. Just in case Anderson and/or Windsor is a complete moron or becomes one during.......oops


Thank you for the correction. I get busy writing and not reading sometimes.

However I hate to tell you, but piercing the corp veil is not new. It's been going on for some time now and it's not confined to any one State.

You cannot comingle property/funds, you cannot use business property for personal use, hold true to the companies operating agreement, and the company is a seperate entity. If you stay true to those somewhat simple rules you should be alright.

I'm in Texas where the are very business friendly. At least compared to the Peoples Republic of California where I was. California is by far the better state to live in until you have to deal with any government official...even a crossing guard

Doode, why is your avatar an image of a pachyderm ****ing a bovine - but seriously, why?

Is that the kind of thing you do in Texas?

Is this something you are promoting?

Something you do or endorse?

g

Why yes, yes it is.




No, a friend sent it to me. He's an Alabama Crimson Tide grad; Alabama (Elephant is their mascott) beat University of Texas (Bevo the Bovine is their mascott) in the NCAA College Football National Championship....Roll Tide.
I didn't go to either school, not a big UT fan at all though. However, you can't spell slut without UT.

Starting a business in Texas is not even funny, you fill out a few forms, pay $25 USD and you are done. Get the keys to your new leased building and starting working. I kept wondering what I was missing, but it was really easy. Closed up shop when gas prices got out of hand, just to be on the safe, it was the right call. I will wait for the mess to be over and start again. We have tons of people from Cali moving here, in fact our employment rate varies more on who is moving here than it does people losing jobs. A few months back we were at full statistical employment, and then in a few months the mass move-in caused our rate to get to nearly 10%, now it is back down pretty low again. Actually hard to get a job right now, just competing with how few jobs are actually open, compared to the amount of people moving here that want a job. Really interesting to watch.

Lots of good racing here in Texas as well, some nice kart tracks, and some nice road race tracks. Not that any of this has anything to do with USF1, but they seem to be in a funk of not telling us anything, so why not! ;)

Wonder if and when we will hear back from the FIA visit. It could have been really bad, no employees in the shop, etc. It was a surprise visit I hear, but even those are sometimes announced in some fashion. Best thing that could have happened is no management was on-site, I would love to hear the stories CW was able to hear if that was the case.

Edit: Rumor has it that Laz is trying to create an Elelonghornaphant, going to be huge, look for it soon on the market.

I think the LLC fees were ~$300

Shhhhhhhh.............you're right though, keep an eye out at your local Pet Smart

You aren't the only guy here that's a member of an LLC or have had an S or C corp before. If there is fraud or misrepresentation or if the owner of the LLC is using it a so called "shadow company" then they could be liable but I don't see that here. I think you may see more piercings in an LLC because as you know they are pretty easy to set up. Fraud or intentional misrepresentation or misappropriation of assets is not protected in an S or a C either. If Hurley's not a member in the LLC there is nothing the debtors can do. Anyone can fund a private company in a variety of different ways and not be a stakeholder or even have any equity. Hurley giving them seed money no more puts him on the hook for the debts (or other liabilities) than it would if they got traditional bank funding.

I have tried to care about this story and my eyes glaze over every time a new article or tweet emerges. If USF1 makes it, I don't care. If they don't make it, I don't care. If Peter Windsor goes back to SPEED I might care because it affects my viewing experience but the rest is so much sound and fury for a team whose car would lap at 3-5 seconds a lap behind the pace. Now that real racing has started in earnest in other series it's rubbing it in how silly the F1 silly season really is.

I've heard that SPEED have already replaced Windsor and have no intention of re-instating him, even if USF1 folds and he asks for his job back.

WHOAH!!!! You mean to say that there is a chance that Peter Windsor has been reading what we're been saying?

If so, come back home to Australia Peter and cover the V8 Supercars for awhile - you might be able to spice it back up bit as I find it's becoming a bit stale.

So Charlie Whiting's visit yesterday can be seen two ways:

1: The team actually has a plan that was presented to the FIA earlier this week and the FIA needs to verify that the shop and cars actually are at the stage the team told and to check if there is a possibility for the team to make the grid after missing X races.

2: The FIA just needs to be seen to have done the inspection so that they have a better legal case, and can partly base their decision on CW's findings during the inspection, when they decide to revoke their F1 license.

And as for the actual inspection, there are two possible conclusions that the FIA can make as I see it:

1: The team is so far behind schedule and lacks key parts that there is a very little possibility of the team finishing a car until well into the season (if at all). The team also lacks a financial foundation that makes them able to complete the season.

2: The team has the infrastructure needed (with maybe a few changes needed), the cars are at a stage where they should be able to finish them by the 4th (or whatever) race. There is also a financial foundation that makes the team able to complete the season.

Since this is the two scenarioes I have come up with, I'm sure the FIA will come up with a third scenario, completely different from my two

You don't even have that much liability. You are only liable to the value of your unpayed shares. So, in your example, if you have already paid the company for £200 worth of the shares, you will only be liable for £133.33

I can agree to these, but as FIA knows more about communication between Ken Anderson and the Nick Crow so there we go the third scenario. I actually think that it has more to do with the discrepancy that FIA Todt/Whiting got accumulated, from what they were informed from American FIA and USF1.

The reason as to why the visit of Whiting was not announced is perhaps the visit is seen more as internal matter plus reality check than pure USF1 inspection...

Ha ha ha, that's awesome, I love it thanks Laz II

Apologies to everyone else for temporarily going OT

Man, I so want to move to the US... might start considering Texas over Cali, although. I hear the beaches aren't so good...

Has there been any news on the result of CW's visit?

That's a bit of a cliffhanger. Spill the beans. Who have they got?

I've read that it's Will Buxton.

Can't see that being the case

Would he have the time ? GP2 commentator, his GPWeek commitments etc

I would imagine he is too busy to be able to take that role on

I read on speed that it was a man (that was obvious b the following comment) and he'd miss the first three races due to his wife's pregnancy BUT he was under contract already with Speed....that help any??

Ticks all the boxes there as Emma is expecting a kid soon so sounds like him

Does anyone know when the FIA inspection will be considered 'done'? What sort of timeline are we looking at? Surely Charlie Whiting is not going to camp at USF1 till they have cleared the crash test?

Incidentally, this is the 6000^th post.