Full Version: Will USF1 make it to the 2010 grid? (merged)
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I can't beleive that so many people still doubt USF1. (they might have to change their name though). They'll be there, whether you like Windsor or not (I know he's a journo freerider etc)...
Argentine Jose Maria Lopez signs for USF1
According to Joe Saward
Linky
Don't know much about him, anyone enlighten me ?
According to Joe Saward
Linky
Don't know much about him, anyone enlighten me ?
QUOTE (GIBF1 @ Nov 20 2009, 19:30) 
Don't know much about him, anyone enlighten me ?
Argentine touring car driver. He's one of the few racing drivers around who has comepted in GP2 and its predecessor, F3000. Nothing spectacular - ninth in 2005, tenth in 2006. Ever since then, he's been in Le Mans series, TC 2000 and the FIA GT Championship. He hasn't stayed in one series for more than a year, and he hasn't sat in a single-seater since he left Super Nova in 2006. He is, however, the driver the Argentine government were backing to get to Formula One, so he'll have a lot of money from Repsol YPF or someone.
QUOTE (Captain Tightpants @ Nov 20 2009, 08:46)
Argentine touring car driver. He's one of the few racing drivers around who has comepted in GP2 and its predecessor, F3000. Nothing spectacular - ninth in 2005, tenth in 2006. Ever since then, he's been in Le Mans series, TC 2000 and the FIA GT Championship. He hasn't stayed in one series for more than a year, and he hasn't sat in a single-seater since he left Super Nova in 2006. He is, however, the driver the Argentine government were backing to get to Formula One, so he'll have a lot of money from Repsol YPF or someone.
Not one to get excited about then
I'm informed he has a reputation for crashing, so maybe he'll at least be entertaining.
And based on his GP2 results, you wouldn't have tipped Kamui Kobayashi to enter Formula One in the near future not that long ago ...
And based on his GP2 results, you wouldn't have tipped Kamui Kobayashi to enter Formula One in the near future not that long ago ...
QUOTE (Captain Tightpants @ Nov 20 2009, 08:54)
I'm informed he has a reputation for crashing, so maybe he'll at least be entertaining.
And based on his GP2 results, you wouldn't have tipped Kamui Kobayashi to enter Formula One in the near future not that long ago ...
And based on his GP2 results, you wouldn't have tipped Kamui Kobayashi to enter Formula One in the near future not that long ago ...
Good point
QUOTE (GIBF1 @ Nov 20 2009, 08:30)
Argentine Jose Maria Lopez signs for USF1
According to Joe Saward
Linky
Don't know much about him, anyone enlighten me ?
According to Joe Saward
Linky
Don't know much about him, anyone enlighten me ?
A pay driver if ever there was one. Who brings with him some sponsorship, which will adorn the USF1 cars.
QUOTE (Captain Tightpants @ Nov 20 2009, 09:46)
He is, however, the driver the Argentine government were backing to get to Formula One, so he'll have a lot of money from Repsol YPF or someone.
One of the pieces mentioned in the other thread that it was the Argentine Ministry of Tourism and a mobile phone provider. Reportedly they have agreed to terms but no deal signed yet and he hasn't produced the money yet. He tested for Renault (when they could still test year round) so he shouldn't have an issue getting granted a license.
I was just reading up on the Falcon IndyCar project, co-headed by Ken Anderson, who's also behind the USF1 project. The Falcon was supposed to be one of three chassis for IndyCar from 2003 onwards, but disappeared before the season even started. But there was much excitement and positive PR, when the project was first announced. I found this article on indycar.com, dated 2002:
http://www.indycar.com/news/?story_id=680
So I don't know... it kinda seems similar to the current USF1 project. Andreson and Windsor have been saying that they are trying to create a new way of running an F1 team, with much of the work being outsourced etc, in the same vain as Falcon Cars talked about a whole new way of doing things and there was a lot of excitement and real hard work put into it. The reasons for its failure are unknown, I admit... it may have been a smokescreen all along, there may have been some fatal design flaws, money may have run out... but still, much of what Anderson and Windsor are talking now, about how excited they are and how they're going to approach things differently, is eerily similar to what Anderson and Kranefuss were saying in 2002 about the Falcon.
What I'm saying is: I'm still not sure that USF1 will grace the grid in 2010. All this positive hype and talk of new approach and even showing people that work is being done, people hired, cars built... until the next season begins, I'm sceptic about this project.
http://www.indycar.com/news/?story_id=680
QUOTE
In May 2002, two men with vast racing experience, plenty of ideas and an empty shop got an opportunity.
Six months later, Michael Kranefuss and Ken Anderson have fulfilled that opportunity in the Indy Racing League and are less than a month away from unveiling the first Falcon Cars IRL chassis.
“I think what’s important to note is that typically you do not, or you cannot, produce a race car within six months,” said Kranefuss, co-owner of Falcon Cars. “What we are trying to do is create a whole new process of designing and manufacturing the pieces that go into a race car in a way that it is not been done in racing.
Six months later, Michael Kranefuss and Ken Anderson have fulfilled that opportunity in the Indy Racing League and are less than a month away from unveiling the first Falcon Cars IRL chassis.
“I think what’s important to note is that typically you do not, or you cannot, produce a race car within six months,” said Kranefuss, co-owner of Falcon Cars. “What we are trying to do is create a whole new process of designing and manufacturing the pieces that go into a race car in a way that it is not been done in racing.
So I don't know... it kinda seems similar to the current USF1 project. Andreson and Windsor have been saying that they are trying to create a new way of running an F1 team, with much of the work being outsourced etc, in the same vain as Falcon Cars talked about a whole new way of doing things and there was a lot of excitement and real hard work put into it. The reasons for its failure are unknown, I admit... it may have been a smokescreen all along, there may have been some fatal design flaws, money may have run out... but still, much of what Anderson and Windsor are talking now, about how excited they are and how they're going to approach things differently, is eerily similar to what Anderson and Kranefuss were saying in 2002 about the Falcon.
What I'm saying is: I'm still not sure that USF1 will grace the grid in 2010. All this positive hype and talk of new approach and even showing people that work is being done, people hired, cars built... until the next season begins, I'm sceptic about this project.
QUOTE (Aquarius @ Nov 20 2009, 10:26)
The reasons for its failure are unknown, I admit... it may have been a smokescreen all along, there may have been some fatal design flaws, money may have run out... but still, much of what Anderson and Windsor are talking now, about how excited they are and how they're going to approach things differently, is eerily similar to what Anderson and Kranefuss were saying in 2002 about the Falcon.
The reason the Falcon didn't get produced is common knowledge to Indycar fans of that time. They completed parts for two rollers and were ready to go into production but none of the engine manufacturers would allow a leased engine to to tested/used in the car using an established team. IRL rules at the time dictated that only the teams could do that sort of testing the the engine cartel did its best to not allow Kranefuss and Anderson to get ahold of an engine. Below is a copy of the press release at the time.
QUOTE
March 18, 2003
Falcon Cars Status - Murphy’s Law and Catch 22
The fact that no Falcons were entered in the 2003 IndyCar Series opener in Homestead and in view of rumors and speculation about our future, I feel it is important to clarify our position.
From the beginning we fully understood that it wouldn’t be easy to convince any race team to commit to Falcon Cars. The late start and the perception of being an unproven entity, understandably, prevented top teams from making commitments.
The current business climate and subsequent lack of available sponsorship impacted almost every team that didn’t have their contracts in place already for this season. As the entry lists for Homestead and Phoenix indicate, instead of the expected 26 to 28 cars, only 21 to 22 cars actually compete. Needless to say, those teams currently not in action were our target market and we have made every conceivable effort to entice them to consider running Falcons.
Severely increased funding levels, required to be able to purchase or lease the new generation of chassis’ and engines, made it extremely difficult, and in many cases impossible, for teams to secure adequate sponsorship funding.
Subsequently, when we were in a position to start selling chassis’, none of the teams we were in contact with had the financial means to commit to purchase or lease chassis’ and engines. On the other hand, teams that did have sponsorship and engine arrangements in place were not prepared to take chances with us; and/or were discouraged by their respective engine partner to do so.
The engine manufacturers’ reluctance to support their contracted teams to consider Falcon Cars is somewhat understandable, but it certainly didn’t help us. Basically, they didn’t want to become involved in a situation where their teams had to invest time and effort to develop our chassis when they were in the process of developing their engines; as a side effect, and I am sure they appreciated the opportunity, they ended up being able to compare ‘apples to apples’, i.e. Dallara/Chevy vs. Dallara/Honda vs. Dallara/Toyota.
However, for us to be able to provide teams with a chassis ready to be tested we needed, early on, vital information and technical support (mock-up engines, drawings, cooling requirements, electronics support, harnesses, etc.) from the engine suppliers; which, unfortunately for us, they are only prepared to release through their contracted teams.
IRL rules and certain logistics do not provide the opportunity for a chassis manufacturer to conduct its own test and development program. Even if that opportunity existed, we are not equipped to function as a race team; and it was certainly never part of our financial plan to purchase or lease engines and fund everything else that is necessary to perform a meaningful test program. Typically, these costs are largely considered to be the responsibility of a race team.
But, for the sake of argument, let’s say the circumstances would allow us to operate a test team and we were in a position to fund such an effort; it still would have required the cooperation of one of the three engine suppliers to provide the hardware and technical assistance necessary for us to be able to test and develop our chassis on the race track.
I don’t think the IRL ever anticipated a scenario that would leave one of their contracted chassis manufacturers without an opportunity to prove the potential of its design and the capability of its product.
Without a chance to demonstrate the competitiveness and performance of our chassis on a race track, obviously, we cannot expect race teams to make commitments. Without a team’s commitment or an engine supplier’s cooperation there is not much else we can do to push the program ahead.
Where does all of this leave us?
In spite of all these counterproductive events we have been able to complete the design and the tooling of our car, the Falcon Indy 01-A. Currently, we have two chassis’ in various states of completion and are certainly equipped and ready, at least theoretically, to produce whatever the ‘market’ would request of us.
As documented on our website, we have made large investments to facilitate Falcon Cars with the latest ‘state of the art’ technology mandatory in the design and manufacturing of modern, high tech race cars and components. We were fortunate to have been able to attract top notch people to come and work with us. We believe our design to be innovative and competitive and I am still convinced that we can have a future if we make it through the next few months. But, time is running out and without any sales or income our cash flow situation has been deteriorating rapidly. We have had to let most of our people go and implement other painful cost saving measures.
However, we have not given up. To keep Falcon Cars going we are looking for people that understand the volatility of the business of racing; people who are in a position to invest as a partner or buyer. I believe in the future of Falcon Cars as a domestic company becoming a valuable contributor to the growth of the IndyCar Series; as much as I continue to believe in the future of the IRL.
Falcon Cars Status - Murphy’s Law and Catch 22
The fact that no Falcons were entered in the 2003 IndyCar Series opener in Homestead and in view of rumors and speculation about our future, I feel it is important to clarify our position.
From the beginning we fully understood that it wouldn’t be easy to convince any race team to commit to Falcon Cars. The late start and the perception of being an unproven entity, understandably, prevented top teams from making commitments.
The current business climate and subsequent lack of available sponsorship impacted almost every team that didn’t have their contracts in place already for this season. As the entry lists for Homestead and Phoenix indicate, instead of the expected 26 to 28 cars, only 21 to 22 cars actually compete. Needless to say, those teams currently not in action were our target market and we have made every conceivable effort to entice them to consider running Falcons.
Severely increased funding levels, required to be able to purchase or lease the new generation of chassis’ and engines, made it extremely difficult, and in many cases impossible, for teams to secure adequate sponsorship funding.
Subsequently, when we were in a position to start selling chassis’, none of the teams we were in contact with had the financial means to commit to purchase or lease chassis’ and engines. On the other hand, teams that did have sponsorship and engine arrangements in place were not prepared to take chances with us; and/or were discouraged by their respective engine partner to do so.
The engine manufacturers’ reluctance to support their contracted teams to consider Falcon Cars is somewhat understandable, but it certainly didn’t help us. Basically, they didn’t want to become involved in a situation where their teams had to invest time and effort to develop our chassis when they were in the process of developing their engines; as a side effect, and I am sure they appreciated the opportunity, they ended up being able to compare ‘apples to apples’, i.e. Dallara/Chevy vs. Dallara/Honda vs. Dallara/Toyota.
However, for us to be able to provide teams with a chassis ready to be tested we needed, early on, vital information and technical support (mock-up engines, drawings, cooling requirements, electronics support, harnesses, etc.) from the engine suppliers; which, unfortunately for us, they are only prepared to release through their contracted teams.
IRL rules and certain logistics do not provide the opportunity for a chassis manufacturer to conduct its own test and development program. Even if that opportunity existed, we are not equipped to function as a race team; and it was certainly never part of our financial plan to purchase or lease engines and fund everything else that is necessary to perform a meaningful test program. Typically, these costs are largely considered to be the responsibility of a race team.
But, for the sake of argument, let’s say the circumstances would allow us to operate a test team and we were in a position to fund such an effort; it still would have required the cooperation of one of the three engine suppliers to provide the hardware and technical assistance necessary for us to be able to test and develop our chassis on the race track.
I don’t think the IRL ever anticipated a scenario that would leave one of their contracted chassis manufacturers without an opportunity to prove the potential of its design and the capability of its product.
Without a chance to demonstrate the competitiveness and performance of our chassis on a race track, obviously, we cannot expect race teams to make commitments. Without a team’s commitment or an engine supplier’s cooperation there is not much else we can do to push the program ahead.
Where does all of this leave us?
In spite of all these counterproductive events we have been able to complete the design and the tooling of our car, the Falcon Indy 01-A. Currently, we have two chassis’ in various states of completion and are certainly equipped and ready, at least theoretically, to produce whatever the ‘market’ would request of us.
As documented on our website, we have made large investments to facilitate Falcon Cars with the latest ‘state of the art’ technology mandatory in the design and manufacturing of modern, high tech race cars and components. We were fortunate to have been able to attract top notch people to come and work with us. We believe our design to be innovative and competitive and I am still convinced that we can have a future if we make it through the next few months. But, time is running out and without any sales or income our cash flow situation has been deteriorating rapidly. We have had to let most of our people go and implement other painful cost saving measures.
However, we have not given up. To keep Falcon Cars going we are looking for people that understand the volatility of the business of racing; people who are in a position to invest as a partner or buyer. I believe in the future of Falcon Cars as a domestic company becoming a valuable contributor to the growth of the IndyCar Series; as much as I continue to believe in the future of the IRL.
QUOTE (loki @ Nov 20 2009, 12:54)
The reason the Falcon didn't get produced is common knowledge to Indycar fans of that time. They completed parts for two rollers and were ready to go into production but none of the engine manufacturers would allow a leased engine to to tested/used in the car using an established team. IRL rules at the time dictated that only the teams could do that sort of testing the the engine cartel did its best to not allow Kranefuss and Anderson to get ahold of an engine. Below is a copy of the press release at the time.
Thanks loki, I didn't know that
. Seems I should have done some more reading up on this particular subject 
Anyway... back to the topic
This Falcon Indy car made me curious so i googled a little bit:
http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp...&FS=INDYCAR
That was what they said back then and this is the result:
http://www.motorsport.com/photos/select.as...03_cars%/Falcon
So at least Anderson have proven that you can build a state of the art race car in the US (AMuS/Michael Schmidt seems to believe that it's naive to try to build a open wheel race car in the US). And he has a proven record of actually coming up with a finished car.
http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp...&FS=INDYCAR
QUOTE
The Falcon is the first car, completely designed and manufactured in the U.S., under the 2003 IRL technical specifications. Falcon joins Dallara and Panoz G Force as IRL chassis suppliers for the 2003 season.
"Over the past several months, we've been extremely busy designing the 2003 Falcon Indy Car and setting up a world-class design and manufacturing facility, Falcon Cars President Michael Kranefuss said. "We're very proud of our accomplishments, and after tonight's presentation, hope that you'll be equally impressed with our commitment to excellence."
"Over the past several months, we've been extremely busy designing the 2003 Falcon Indy Car and setting up a world-class design and manufacturing facility, Falcon Cars President Michael Kranefuss said. "We're very proud of our accomplishments, and after tonight's presentation, hope that you'll be equally impressed with our commitment to excellence."
That was what they said back then and this is the result:
http://www.motorsport.com/photos/select.as...03_cars%/Falcon
So at least Anderson have proven that you can build a state of the art race car in the US (AMuS/Michael Schmidt seems to believe that it's naive to try to build a open wheel race car in the US). And he has a proven record of actually coming up with a finished car.
Sorry for steering this thread more off topic, but a search of old AtlasF1 forums reveal a couple more threads about the Falcon:
http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=53398
http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=50823
Quite a few interesting facts and tidbits there... as well as a few opinions about its looks. I can't remember how I felt about it at the time it was launched, but looking at it now, and comparing it to the current Dallara tank, it looks absolutely stunning! OK, the frontwing looks a little suspect, but the rest is lovely - sleek and fast, even when stationary. Would have loved to see how fast it would really have been.
And about why the project got cancelled... I don't know, it seems the IRL handled the affair quite badly. They had a known manufacturer (Lola) waiting with a designed car, but the IRL pushed them out and handed the project over to Falcon Cars, an unknown company. And when they succeeded in actually building a car, the engine manufacturers refused to even loan/rent them an engine to test? Makes one wonder, how seriously did the IRL even take them in the first place?
Anyway...
http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=53398
http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=50823
Quite a few interesting facts and tidbits there... as well as a few opinions about its looks. I can't remember how I felt about it at the time it was launched, but looking at it now, and comparing it to the current Dallara tank, it looks absolutely stunning! OK, the frontwing looks a little suspect, but the rest is lovely - sleek and fast, even when stationary. Would have loved to see how fast it would really have been
.And about why the project got cancelled... I don't know, it seems the IRL handled the affair quite badly. They had a known manufacturer (Lola) waiting with a designed car, but the IRL pushed them out and handed the project over to Falcon Cars, an unknown company. And when they succeeded in actually building a car, the engine manufacturers refused to even loan/rent them an engine to test? Makes one wonder, how seriously did the IRL even take them in the first place?
Anyway...
QUOTE (Captain Tightpants @ Nov 20 2009, 08:54)
I'm informed he has a reputation for crashing, so maybe he'll at least be entertaining.
And based on his GP2 results, you wouldn't have tipped Kamui Kobayashi to enter Formula One in the near future not that long ago ...
And based on his GP2 results, you wouldn't have tipped Kamui Kobayashi to enter Formula One in the near future not that long ago ...
Crashing for trying to go faster than the car he's driving, don't forget that... and the deal is not closed yet at all, let's be prudent. USF1 has a list of 12 (twelve) possible drivers. López's budget is in 80% right now according to the ACA and the only sponsors confirmed are Argentina's tourism office and the governmnet of Santiago del Estero. To enlighten more about López career, he won the Italian FR beating Robert Kubica in 2002, he also won the FR V6 Eurocup in 2003 beating Neel Jani, Kosuke Matssura, Tristan Gommendy and Jaime Melo Jr., was 6th in f3000 in 2004 with Coloni's B-Team CMS Performance destroying his teammate Mathias Lauda and finished in the top 10 in his two GP2 seasons with Dams and Supernova. Besides he had 14,000 kilometers of testing with the Reanult F1 team and did the shakedowns before races for Fernando Alonso's car. I know Renault had a very good concept of his work as a test driver (he did more kilometers he was expected in first place in 2006). Then he raced in tc2000 in Argentina, taking title in 2008 for Honda and is very close to repeat it this year. He's also fighting for the title in Turismo Carretera and a stock car series called TRV6, so he's seriously aiming for a shocking triple-crown. He has an extraordinary raw speed, but he tends to get involved in touching and clashing because of too much wildness when he's not at the top spots. Hopefully his experience in Argentina has made him grown a lot in terms of consistency and intelligence on the car, which were his weak poiunts in GP2. He will need that because USF1 will be a backmarker...
QUOTE (ezequiel @ Nov 21 2009, 10:30)
Crashing for trying to go faster than the car he's driving, don't forget that...
Does it make him any less out of the race if he crashes for any other reason? Crashng is crashing.
QUOTE (ezequiel @ Nov 21 2009, 10:30)
To enlighten more about López career, he won the Italian FR beating Robert Kubica in 2002, he also won the FR V6 Eurocup in 2003 beating Neel Jani, Kosuke Matssura, Tristan Gommendy and Jaime Melo Jr., was 6th in f3000 in 2004
Should I recognise any of those names? Neel Jani is the only one I know, and only then because he briefly made it into Formula One.
QUOTE (ezequiel @ Nov 21 2009, 10:30)
finished in the top 10 in his two GP2 seasons with Dams and Supernova.
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, Exhibit A: Romain Grosjean. He was fighting for podiums and outright wins in GP2, but when he made it to Formula One, he couldn't hold his wad. If Lopez's best results are ninth and tenth - not to mention they were in 2005 and 2006, while Grosjean had been in GP2 as recently as 2009 - then he's sounding more and more like a liability.
QUOTE (ezequiel @ Nov 21 2009, 10:30)
Then he raced in tc2000 in Argentina, taking title in 2008 for Honda and is very close to repeat it this year. He's also fighting for the title in Turismo Carretera and a stock car series called TRV6, so he's seriously aiming for a shocking triple-crown.
When was the last time a touring car driver made the step up to Formula One? Most of the time, it's a step backwards - why do you think Bruno Senna passed on the chance to drive in the DTM?
QUOTE (ezequiel @ Nov 21 2009, 10:30)
He has an extraordinary raw speed, but he tends to get involved in touching and clashing because of too much wildness when he's not at the top spots.
That's going to go down really well if he's in a hyper-delicate multi-million dollar racing car ...
QUOTE (ezequiel @ Nov 21 2009, 10:30)
Hopefully his experience in Argentina has made him grown a lot in terms of consistency and intelligence on the car, which were his weak poiunts in GP2. He will need that because USF1 will be a backmarker...
I've still never heard of a touring car driver who was promoted to Formula One. He hasn't met any of the criteria for a superlicence, either.
I´m not sure they wil be on the grid next year
QUOTE (Mia 01 @ Nov 21 2009, 11:38)
I´m not so sure they will be on the grid next year.
Based on what?
In the comments on the following article James Allen was asked about what was happening with USF1
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2009/11/what...kimi-raikkonen/ (comment #60)
His reply was
Would have been more interesting to know what the reasons are of course...
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2009/11/what...kimi-raikkonen/ (comment #60)
His reply was
QUOTE
I know quite a bit about the reasons why they have been quiet and I’m reasonably confident that they will be there
Would have been more interesting to know what the reasons are of course...
QUOTE (BMW_F1 @ Nov 21 2009, 02:32)
This thread has been overwhelmed by all kinds of incredibly silly stuff, all of which actually turned out to be true as I type this... incredible, naturalize Pechito and we're all systems go!
QUOTE (Aquarius @ Nov 20 2009, 23:56)
I don't know, it seems the IRL handled the affair quite badly. They had a known manufacturer (Lola) waiting with a designed car, but the IRL pushed them out and handed the project over to Falcon Cars, an unknown company. And when they succeeded in actually building a car, the engine manufacturers refused to even loan/rent them an engine to test? Makes one wonder, how seriously did the IRL even take them in the first place?
Lola was at a disadvantage from the get go. They were still supplying Champ Cap teams at the time of the bid, 2002 or so and the US Lola distributor was Carl Haas, longtime CART/Champ Car proponent. It was a policy of scorched earth in US open wheel at the time and those two things perhaps more than anything was why Lola was not given the opportunity though some at the time said they were not seriously considered at all in spite of the fact they had everything ready to deliver and a strong track record of building and supporting this type of car.
the proper usf1 pisstake series http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJTynvakZok...feature=related
QUOTE (Captain Tightpants @ Nov 21 2009, 01:58)
Should I recognise any of those names? Neel Jani is the only one I know, and only then because he briefly made it into Formula One.
You should recognise Robert Kubica. He has been racing in F1 3½ years now
QUOTE (Captain Tightpants @ Nov 21 2009, 01:58)
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, Exhibit A: Romain Grosjean. He was fighting for podiums and outright wins in GP2, but when he made it to Formula One, he couldn't hold his wad. If Lopez's best results are ninth and tenth - not to mention they were in 2005 and 2006, while Grosjean had been in GP2 as recently as 2009 - then he's sounding more and more like a liability.
Exhibit B: Kamui Kobayashi
QUOTE (Buckethead @ Nov 21 2009, 22:41)
You should recognise Robert Kubica. He has been racing in F1 3½ years now
I did miss the Kubica. That said, the other three drivers on the list are pretty obscure. And I don't think it counts for too much if you beat a Formula One driver eight years ago. Especially if your career has gotten to the point where you're driving national touring cars while he's off leading World Championship.
QUOTE (Buckethead @ Nov 21 2009, 22:41)
Exhibit B: Kamui Kobayashi
Exhibit C: Nelson Piquet - multiple wins and podiums, second place overall in 2006, generally sucked in Formula One.
Exhibit D: Giorgio Pantano - won 2008 GP2 series (admittedly four year after a limited-run campaign for Jordan) ... sumamrily ignored by Formula One.
I could do this all night.
QUOTE (Buckethead @ Nov 21 2009, 11:41)
Exhibit B: Kamui Kobayashi
I think it is fair to say that drivers such as Kobayashi (who has only completed 2 F1 races, lest we forget) are an exception (plus, Kobayashi caned GP2 Asia, which we all seem keen to forget in order to promote some kind of "rags to riches" myth).
Very few F1 race winners were mediocre at the junior levels. Of the significant drivers over the last 20 years, only Damon Hill stands out as someone who was anonymous in the lower formulae, but went on to succeed in F1. Drivers such as Alonso, Schumacher, Hakkinen, Hamilton et al were all pretty obviously major talents before they were even 20 years old.
Most likely, a driver in the GP2 midfield is going to turn out to be an Olivier Beretta/Olivier Grouillard/Alex Yoong kind of driver.
USF1 signs J-Lopez
There is a lot of talk doing the rounds today that Jose Maria “Pechito” Lopez has signed a contract to race with USF1 in 2010. If true, it will mark an incredible turnaround in the Argentine’s career and will bring to the sport a hugely likable character.
J-Lo’s single-seater career began in 2001 with an assault on Formula Renault 2.0, winning the Italian championship in 2002. In 2003 he moved up to Formula Renault V6 with DAMS and again stormed to the title. In 2004 the Argentine continued his association with DAMS, driving again in FRV6, making a one-off run in the FIA GT championship and moving up to Formula 3000 with CMS.
His DAMS association saw him move up to the new GP2 Series with the team in 2005, finishing on the podium in the first ever race at Imola and taking a win in only the second weekend of the inaugural season in Barcelona. He struggled with consistency after that point however, and scored only one further podium for the season eventually finishing ninth in the championship chase.
For 2006 Lopez moved to Super Nova and again struggled for consistency. As with 2005 he took three podiums but this time finished the season 10th. Perhaps the most telling moment of his season came at the Nurburgring. He was leading the Sunday race by a country mile and was completely unchallenged, until Timo Glock, who had recently switched teams from BCN to iSport began cutting down the gap to the race leader. With two laps to go the gap was still relatively healthy… a good few seconds. Lopez had it in the bag.
But then, on the last lap, Timo Glock flew past a half asleep Lopez, took the win, relegated Lopez to second and pretty much anihilated the Argentine’s reputation at the same time. Super Nova was unimpressed and dropped him for 2007. Nobody else wanted him either. Not in GP2. And certainly not in F1.
The 2006 season also saw the end of his deal with Renault. He’d been brought in as one of the earliest RDD boys, alongside the likes of Kovalainen and Kubica and despite his huge experience testing F1 cars for Renault and three seasons in an F1 feeder category, his inconsistency had dropped him out of favour and his F1 dream appeared at an end.
While fellow RDD boys Montagny, Kubica and Kovalainen all made it to F1, Lopez was thrust into ALMS and eventually the Argentine Touring Car championship, of which he was crowned champion last season.
But now, it seems, he will finally get his dream and his shot at F1. J-Lo is understood to have signed for USF1 with a downpayment of around 80% of the budget the team need from him to secure his seat. It is understood there is no time limit on him finding the remainder of the cash, as his credentials are bona fide thanks in no small part to his backing from former F1 star turned Argentine politican Carlos Reutemann, and his money is well-backed from high profile Argentine companies.
The question still rests over his consistency at the highest levels of competition however. Personally I like the guy. Always have. And I think he’s quick, too.
His performances in GP2 might not have been outstanding, but he was saddled with the comparative competitive deadweight of Fairuz Fauzy as his team-mate for both 2005 and 2006. That said, when he was in a good position, all too often he didn’t make the most of it – that ultimate example of losing the win in Germany the one that still stands out as completely unforgivable.
On his day he was bloody fast though, and held the GP2 lap record at Circuit Paul Ricard for a good few years. Considering that the championship conducts about 75% of its testing at the track, the fact that his time stood for so long evidenced just how speedy he could be… when it all came together.
It’s just that it didn’t come together all that often.
Renault however really have marked themselves out for not maximising the talent they had at their disposal through the RDD. They threw away Montagny and haven’t won a championship since dumping him as their development driver. They binned Kovalainen after a season in which Flavio had crushed him. They let Kubica go and have only just got him back. And then there’s Lucas di Grassi, for so long on the RDD books only to be continually overlooked.
So is Lopez another one of the great talents that Renault churlishly let go? Time will tell.
Pechito is a cracking guy, and if he does end up in Formula 1 next season it will be fantastic for him and for the sport. He’ll give it his all, and given the diligence and speed he showed in his F1 testing duties with Renault he could be a great addition.
He’s been out of competitive single-seater action for three seasons though, and one has to question the ultimate sense of USF1 taking such a gamble in its debut season.
http://willthef1journo.wordpress.com/
Under the rain, Pechito kill everyone..,
There is a lot of talk doing the rounds today that Jose Maria “Pechito” Lopez has signed a contract to race with USF1 in 2010. If true, it will mark an incredible turnaround in the Argentine’s career and will bring to the sport a hugely likable character.
J-Lo’s single-seater career began in 2001 with an assault on Formula Renault 2.0, winning the Italian championship in 2002. In 2003 he moved up to Formula Renault V6 with DAMS and again stormed to the title. In 2004 the Argentine continued his association with DAMS, driving again in FRV6, making a one-off run in the FIA GT championship and moving up to Formula 3000 with CMS.
His DAMS association saw him move up to the new GP2 Series with the team in 2005, finishing on the podium in the first ever race at Imola and taking a win in only the second weekend of the inaugural season in Barcelona. He struggled with consistency after that point however, and scored only one further podium for the season eventually finishing ninth in the championship chase.
For 2006 Lopez moved to Super Nova and again struggled for consistency. As with 2005 he took three podiums but this time finished the season 10th. Perhaps the most telling moment of his season came at the Nurburgring. He was leading the Sunday race by a country mile and was completely unchallenged, until Timo Glock, who had recently switched teams from BCN to iSport began cutting down the gap to the race leader. With two laps to go the gap was still relatively healthy… a good few seconds. Lopez had it in the bag.
But then, on the last lap, Timo Glock flew past a half asleep Lopez, took the win, relegated Lopez to second and pretty much anihilated the Argentine’s reputation at the same time. Super Nova was unimpressed and dropped him for 2007. Nobody else wanted him either. Not in GP2. And certainly not in F1.
The 2006 season also saw the end of his deal with Renault. He’d been brought in as one of the earliest RDD boys, alongside the likes of Kovalainen and Kubica and despite his huge experience testing F1 cars for Renault and three seasons in an F1 feeder category, his inconsistency had dropped him out of favour and his F1 dream appeared at an end.
While fellow RDD boys Montagny, Kubica and Kovalainen all made it to F1, Lopez was thrust into ALMS and eventually the Argentine Touring Car championship, of which he was crowned champion last season.
But now, it seems, he will finally get his dream and his shot at F1. J-Lo is understood to have signed for USF1 with a downpayment of around 80% of the budget the team need from him to secure his seat. It is understood there is no time limit on him finding the remainder of the cash, as his credentials are bona fide thanks in no small part to his backing from former F1 star turned Argentine politican Carlos Reutemann, and his money is well-backed from high profile Argentine companies.
The question still rests over his consistency at the highest levels of competition however. Personally I like the guy. Always have. And I think he’s quick, too.
His performances in GP2 might not have been outstanding, but he was saddled with the comparative competitive deadweight of Fairuz Fauzy as his team-mate for both 2005 and 2006. That said, when he was in a good position, all too often he didn’t make the most of it – that ultimate example of losing the win in Germany the one that still stands out as completely unforgivable.
On his day he was bloody fast though, and held the GP2 lap record at Circuit Paul Ricard for a good few years. Considering that the championship conducts about 75% of its testing at the track, the fact that his time stood for so long evidenced just how speedy he could be… when it all came together.
It’s just that it didn’t come together all that often.
Renault however really have marked themselves out for not maximising the talent they had at their disposal through the RDD. They threw away Montagny and haven’t won a championship since dumping him as their development driver. They binned Kovalainen after a season in which Flavio had crushed him. They let Kubica go and have only just got him back. And then there’s Lucas di Grassi, for so long on the RDD books only to be continually overlooked.
So is Lopez another one of the great talents that Renault churlishly let go? Time will tell.
Pechito is a cracking guy, and if he does end up in Formula 1 next season it will be fantastic for him and for the sport. He’ll give it his all, and given the diligence and speed he showed in his F1 testing duties with Renault he could be a great addition.
He’s been out of competitive single-seater action for three seasons though, and one has to question the ultimate sense of USF1 taking such a gamble in its debut season.
http://willthef1journo.wordpress.com/
Under the rain, Pechito kill everyone..,
Like I said in the other thread: he needs to put together a sponsorship package before the seat is his.
QUOTE (wj_gibson @ Nov 21 2009, 14:03)
Most likely, a driver in the GP2 midfield is going to turn out to be an Olivier Beretta/Olivier Grouillard/Alex Yoong kind of driver.
Olivier Grouillard was a pretty good driver. He did quite well for Ligier and Tyrrell but for the small Fondmetal outfit he performed fantastic, he was very fast and certainly better than many in the field in those days.
This probably would deserve its own thread, if someone can put an appropriate name on it.. but 2010 is shaping up to be quite a weird season.. noob outfits running noob drivers, while the top teams are going to have robust drivers lineup, dream teams pretty muc, to say the least.. it really is going to be different..
USF1 with Pechito and whatever-his-name-is have chosen an interesting moment to join the sport..
USF1 with Pechito and whatever-his-name-is have chosen an interesting moment to join the sport..
well the new teams are looking for affordable drivers....they cant afford the buttons, kubicas, kimis etc.....and i really doubt a top driver would even consider driving for new teams.....and besides these days the new rookies are always bringing money with them.
..actually my point was more about the teams themselves. 2010 strikes me as the top teams having absolutely no worries on the driver side of things (maybe Massa, never know..)
The thing is, stuff like spygate and what not were a big deal, very messy and genuine (
) , with the result that, no matter what, we had the tightest field ever in the last couple of years..
Now we don't even have the 107% rule anymore, and I truly can't tell if we will need it... In 2009 I knew we didn't need 107%, even when I thought the Brawn would be a dog..
Strictly speaking it's not that difficult to read the rules and put a car together... in fact I could have typed the same thing 25 years ago had it been a trendy thing to do... but building a competitive car, a 107% car, that's actually a challenge.. I feel people in general struggle to see that.
The thing is, stuff like spygate and what not were a big deal, very messy and genuine (
) , with the result that, no matter what, we had the tightest field ever in the last couple of years..Now we don't even have the 107% rule anymore, and I truly can't tell if we will need it... In 2009 I knew we didn't need 107%, even when I thought the Brawn would be a dog..
Strictly speaking it's not that difficult to read the rules and put a car together... in fact I could have typed the same thing 25 years ago had it been a trendy thing to do... but building a competitive car, a 107% car, that's actually a challenge.. I feel people in general struggle to see that.
force india did it in what ? Two years...
First, 2 young Americans on the grid...nice
Then 1 alongside an experienced F1 driver...acceptable...
Unless there ends up being an American driver beside him, the signing of 'Pechito' is pretty much a complete betrayal...
The justification for there not being on American on the basis of requiring the drivers to have experience is fair enough...
This however is completely bogus....
Then 1 alongside an experienced F1 driver...acceptable...
Unless there ends up being an American driver beside him, the signing of 'Pechito' is pretty much a complete betrayal...
The justification for there not being on American on the basis of requiring the drivers to have experience is fair enough...
This however is completely bogus....
QUOTE (BMW_F1 @ Nov 21 2009, 20:47)
force india did it in what ? Two years...
Jordan?
That team had plenty of podiums already... starting with a blank screen and new machine tools is different.. (admitedly with a couple of experienced brains as well)
If any of the new teams are able to do what FI has done this year, then I'll be massively surprised... I mean, go step-by-step a rationalize something like that for me..
QUOTE (fer312t @ Nov 21 2009, 20:53)
First, 2 young Americans on the grid...nice
Then 1 alongside an experienced F1 driver...acceptable...
Unless there ends up being an American driver beside him, the signing of 'Pechito' is pretty much a complete betrayal...
The justification for there not being on American on the basis of requiring the drivers to have experience is fair enough...
This however is completely bogus....
Then 1 alongside an experienced F1 driver...acceptable...
Unless there ends up being an American driver beside him, the signing of 'Pechito' is pretty much a complete betrayal...
The justification for there not being on American on the basis of requiring the drivers to have experience is fair enough...
This however is completely bogus....
who cares? It's not a betrayal if that's the best available option, is it?
In any case at worst it is a shortfal of their initial strategy..
You've got a couple of guys in a little workshop, ambition, and an ambitious name.. WTF do you really expect?
QUOTE
You've got a couple of guys in a little workshop, ambition, and an ambitious name.. WTF do you really expect?
Maybe not to lie outright...and so quickly abandon a main part of their raison d'être...
QUOTE (fer312t @ Nov 22 2009, 12:53)
Unless there ends up being an American driver beside him, the signing of 'Pechito' is pretty much a complete betrayal...
The justification for there not being on American on the basis of requiring the drivers to have experience is fair enough...
This however is completely bogus....
The justification for there not being on American on the basis of requiring the drivers to have experience is fair enough...
This however is completely bogus....
USF1 is no different from every other team on the grid: they have to take the two best drivers available to them, regardless of nationality. It may even be for the best if USF1 don't actually sign any American drivers for their first season - it gives them a chance to settle in and get established, while at the same time they sponsor people like Summerton and Rossi in other leagues to get their superlicences. That way, when American talent steps up to Formula One, they have an established team, and so the rookies drivers will not be let down by a rookie team.
You really do need to learn to think long-term.
QUOTE
USF1 is no different from every other team on the grid: they have to take the two best drivers available to them, regardless of nationality.
So you're really saying 'Pechito' is one of the two best drivers available to them???
He may well turn out to be talented, but he certainly hasn't done anything to really warrant consideration by anyone on the F1 level at this point...
QUOTE
You really do need to learn to think long-term
Again, it has been Peter Winsor that has been going on about this from day 1....
QUOTE (fer312t @ Nov 22 2009, 16:43)
So you're really saying 'Pechito' is one of the two best drivers available to them???
He may well turn out to be talented, but he certainly hasn't done anything to really warrant consideration by anyone on the F1 level at this point...
He may well turn out to be talented, but he certainly hasn't done anything to really warrant consideration by anyone on the F1 level at this point...
USF1 evidently feel that way about him.
Plus, Berne Ecclestone has been pushing for an Argentine Grand Prix. The government in Buenos Aries has instead decided they want an Argentine driver first. If USF1 signs Lopez and it gives us a race somewhere like Potrero de los Funes - yes, I know of the political situation meaning this is unlikely, but the circuit in San Luis is the only one I can think of right now - and all it costs is one race seat, who loses? Argentina gets a driver, Formula One gets a new race and the fans get a driver who is likely to provide some much-needed accident-prone comedy in this tie of bombproof reliability..
QUOTE (fer312t @ Nov 22 2009, 16:43)
Again, it has been Peter Winsor that has been going on about this from day 1....
What, thinking long-term? Paint me crazy, but I think that's a pretty sensible line to take. Every other team will be thinking about the immediate to long term before they think about the here and now.
CT I think you are being a little over zealous here. They've obviously sold the seat to the highest bidder. Seeing who gets the second (or first?) seat will tell us a bit more about their ambitions I think.
Not to mention that while Bernie has some influence on driver choices, you're giving him too much credit. Maybe he did bank roll this move via some sort of commercial concession to USF1 but I think that's getting into tinfoil hat land.
Not to mention that while Bernie has some influence on driver choices, you're giving him too much credit. Maybe he did bank roll this move via some sort of commercial concession to USF1 but I think that's getting into tinfoil hat land.
QUOTE (ezequiel @ Nov 21 2009, 01:30)
Crashing for trying to go faster than the car he's driving, don't forget that...
So he'll definitely do well next year, then...
(Btw, he was trying to extract the best from that lousy Dallara GP2/05 Renault while the opposition had... Oops...)QUOTE
beating Neel Jani, Kosuke Matssura, Tristan Gommendy and Jaime Melo Jr.
I see... Neel Jani, an A1GP driver. Kosuke who? Tristan Gommendy, sounds distantly familiar. An open-wheel dropout, I'd guess (without Wikipedia's gracious aid) Or is he in F.Nippon? Jaime Melo I know, 24h Le Mans winner & ALMS champion in GT2. And Euroseries 3000 champion, IIRC.
I have the impression that López is (was) not without talent, but keeps crashing, and can't handle the heat. Would that mean something like Nelson Ângelo Piquet? But a 3 year break from driving formula cars will have done nothing good to him.
We need more privateers my a... Thanks, Max.
QUOTE
What, thinking long-term? Paint me crazy, but I think that's a pretty sensible line to take. Every other team will be thinking about the immediate to long term before they think about the here and now.
That's fine...the but don't pander to the US F1 fanbase then turn around and do the opposite...
Read this beauty from Peter Windsor back in August:
USF1 co-principal Peter Windsor has revealed that the team has already turned down two lucrative offers from pay-drivers for next season’s Formula 1 championship.
Windsor revealed that two drivers who have yet to taste F1 racing had been in touch to see if they could become pay-drivers within the newly formed USF1 team. The money offered is significant, equating to around three quarters of the team’s racing budget, however both drivers have been turned down.
“We’ve been offered well over thee-quarters of our racing budget by two drivers already, neither of whom have raced in Formula One – but both have won races in GP2,” Windsor explained in an interview with Sports Illustrated. “Both of them have massive sponsorship they can bring us from their home country.
“Ken and I have got to be very strong, look one another in the eye and say, ‘no, we are not going to accept that money; we are not going to hire those guys becaused we’re going to remain true to our convictions.’”
I still hope the team materializes and eventually follow through with some of the things they've promised, but I'm really not impressed with their level of 'conviction' at this stage...
http://esportes.terra.com.br/automobilismo...to+com+USF.html
According to the magazine Corsa in Arg [don't know], the pre-contract says JML has to bring Usd8M in sponsorship, and they are short by 20%.
According to the magazine Corsa in Arg [don't know], the pre-contract says JML has to bring Usd8M in sponsorship, and they are short by 20%.
Haha, yeah... I KNEW Windsor said something like that a while ago I just couldn't remember when it was.
Oh well.
Oh well.
QUOTE (fer312t @ Nov 22 2009, 19:06)
That's fine...the but don't pander to the US F1 fanbase then turn around and do the opposite...
Read this beauty from Peter Windsor back in August:
USF1 co-principal Peter Windsor has revealed that the team has already turned down two lucrative offers from pay-drivers for next season’s Formula 1 championship.
Windsor revealed that two drivers who have yet to taste F1 racing had been in touch to see if they could become pay-drivers within the newly formed USF1 team. The money offered is significant, equating to around three quarters of the team’s racing budget, however both drivers have been turned down.
“We’ve been offered well over thee-quarters of our racing budget by two drivers already, neither of whom have raced in Formula One – but both have won races in GP2,” Windsor explained in an interview with Sports Illustrated. “Both of them have massive sponsorship they can bring us from their home country.
“Ken and I have got to be very strong, look one another in the eye and say, ‘no, we are not going to accept that money; we are not going to hire those guys becaused we’re going to remain true to our convictions.’”
I still hope the team materializes and eventually follow through with some of the things they've promised, but I'm really not impressed with their level of 'conviction' at this stage...
Read this beauty from Peter Windsor back in August:
USF1 co-principal Peter Windsor has revealed that the team has already turned down two lucrative offers from pay-drivers for next season’s Formula 1 championship.
Windsor revealed that two drivers who have yet to taste F1 racing had been in touch to see if they could become pay-drivers within the newly formed USF1 team. The money offered is significant, equating to around three quarters of the team’s racing budget, however both drivers have been turned down.
“We’ve been offered well over thee-quarters of our racing budget by two drivers already, neither of whom have raced in Formula One – but both have won races in GP2,” Windsor explained in an interview with Sports Illustrated. “Both of them have massive sponsorship they can bring us from their home country.
“Ken and I have got to be very strong, look one another in the eye and say, ‘no, we are not going to accept that money; we are not going to hire those guys becaused we’re going to remain true to our convictions.’”
I still hope the team materializes and eventually follow through with some of the things they've promised, but I'm really not impressed with their level of 'conviction' at this stage...
There's a difference between selling to the highest bidder and asking a driver to pay for the seat. I honestly think that what has happened here is that US1 see something in Lopez, but in order to avoid nastiness when people ask "Why don't you have an American driver?", they've set this deal up with Lopez so that they can reply "He fulfilled the terms of the contract, so we had to give him the seat". Lopez gets a race seat, USF1 get one of the drivers they want and everyone gets a reason as to why they gave him the drive.
QUOTE (WebBerK @ Nov 22 2009, 19:27)
http://esportes.terra.com.br/automobilismo...to+com+USF.html
According to the magazine Corsa in Arg [don't know], the pre-contract says JML has to bring Usd8M in sponsorship, and they are short by 20%.
According to the magazine Corsa in Arg [don't know], the pre-contract says JML has to bring Usd8M in sponsorship, and they are short by 20%.
Going by F1 Live and a few others, he also has a week to make up the shortfall.
QUOTE (Captain Tightpants @ Nov 22 2009, 08:35)
...in order to avoid nastiness when people ask "Why don't you have an American driver?", they've set this deal up with Lopez so that they can reply "He fulfilled the terms of the contract, so we had to give him the seat"...
I'm not usually one to resort to smilies but ..
QUOTE (slideways @ Nov 22 2009, 19:45)
I'm not usually one to resort to smilies but ..
Funny you should post that, because it's the self-same response I have to most of your posts ...
QUOTE (Captain Tightpants @ Nov 22 2009, 08:35)
There's a difference between selling to the highest bidder and asking a driver to pay for the seat. I honestly think that what has happened here is that US1 see something in Lopez,
There are plenty of drivers out there with potential. You would expect the last person they would 'see something in' would be somebody who had limited success in GP2/F3000 and has been racing in a national championship for the past few years. Hopefully he will have winter testing to get himself up to speed but it's clear that USF1 need the cash. USF1 are also an FIA/Bernie pet project. If it's true that the Argentinian government are lining up with millions to host a race then that might also explain the attraction of Lopez a little more.
If USF1 could run their team on Windsor's hot air alone they would be cahmpions, unfortunatley you need more than that to make an F1 team.
QUOTE (Captain Tightpants @ Nov 22 2009, 04:45)
USF1 is no different from every other team on the grid: they have to take the two best drivers available to them, regardless of nationality. It may even be for the best if USF1 don't actually sign any American drivers for their first season - it gives them a chance to settle in and get established, while at the same time they sponsor people like Summerton and Rossi in other leagues to get their superlicences. That way, when American talent steps up to Formula One, they have an established team, and so the rookies drivers will not be let down by a rookie team.
You really do need to learn to think long-term.
You really do need to learn to think long-term.
I wish we could show a bit more respect to the fact that America consists of more than the United States of America. USF1 has actually signed an American driver (Argentine is in America last time I checked).
Those of you who are trying to make a comment about USF1 not having a US driver, please say so.
I'm sure it's just as annoying for people from South America not to be considered Americans, as it is for people from Ireland and Scotland to be called Englishmen...
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