QUOTE (kos @ Dec 22 2009, 17:47) 
It is not even a monocoque. It is just a mockup
Yes, there is nowhere for the driver to get in.
Perhaps he'll ride on top.
Full Version: Will USF1 make it to the 2010 grid? (merged)
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 132, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138
Yes, there is nowhere for the driver to get in.
Perhaps he'll ride on top.
I get the feeling that USF1 are ever so slightly trying to shift the responsibility for them making it on Cosworth. They are talking up a convenient excuse for not making it.
Who actually knows if they'll make it come March 12, but only one thing is certain - there's going to be plenty of crow served; one way or the other.
QUOTE (potmotr @ Dec 22 2009, 10:53)
Yes, there is nowhere for the driver to get in.
Perhaps he'll ride on top.
Perhaps he'll ride on top.
No, it clearly just hasn't been trimmed yet. A mockup would have a cockpit opening, or else what's the point of a mockup.
And as for this being an Indycar tub, GMAFB, have you ever seen an Indycar? This ain't one.
QUOTE (potmotr @ Dec 22 2009, 20:47)
Weird, no sooner had I posted my thoughts on USF1 than Autosport posts a story with Mr W denying it.
There's a golden rule in F1: listen to what Peter Windsor says and do/think/say the opposite.
QUOTE (potmotr @ Dec 22 2009, 17:53)
Yes, there is nowhere for the driver to get in.
What driver?
QUOTE (Muzzinho @ Dec 22 2009, 18:35)
The team doesnt stand a chance. I sincerely hope for their, and their apologists sake that that photo was taken months ago. If thats all they have to show then its not good.
I wouldnt be suprised if thats a remnant of Andersons old Indy car program anyway. The Data boxes in the background look early 2000's/ Late 90's.
Stick a fork in them. Theyre done.
I wouldnt be suprised if thats a remnant of Andersons old Indy car program anyway. The Data boxes in the background look early 2000's/ Late 90's.
Stick a fork in them. Theyre done.
This was Anderson's last Indy Car: http://www.motorsport.com/photos/select.as...03_cars%/Falcon
And USF1 car:
Doesn't look like the same car to me...
QUOTE (sblick @ Dec 22 2009, 15:22)
Obviously you have never seen an F1 car!!! 
It looks really long to me anybody else have that sense? Maybe it is the angle?
It looks really long to me anybody else have that sense? Maybe it is the angle?its the lack of wheels/suspension and "stuff", ive got a old part built jordan from years ago, looks improbabalby long aswell
QUOTE (spacepig @ Dec 22 2009, 18:05)
No, it clearly just hasn't been trimmed yet. A mockup would have a cockpit opening, or else what's the point of a mockup.
Yeah, I know, I was being sarcastic!
QUOTE (Silver Surfer @ Dec 22 2009, 16:56)
Even though I hate Bernie, he usually has the inside scoop on all things F1. If he is saying USF1 is not making the grid, then they probably won't....
Surprised that someone like Windsor isn't a better communicator. He just confirmed that USF1 has problems getting their stuff together. If USF1 in fact doesn't have any problems, it's easy to present evidence of the contrary. Just denying is seen as confirming. Unless being able to present evidence of the contrary, it's better to say that things are looking tight but the teams is making its utmost to meet the challenge, or something like that.
QUOTE (Motormedia @ Dec 22 2009, 18:29)
Surprised that someone like Windsor isn't a better communicator. He just confirmed that USF1 has problems getting their stuff together. If USF1 in fact doesn't have any problems, it's easy to present evidence of the contrary. Just denying is seen as confirming. Unless being able to present evidence of the contrary, it's better to say that things are looking tight but the teams is making its utmost to meet the challenge, or something like that.
I am apathetic to the whole thing now really, its got to the point where I don't really care if they make the grid or not as they are just there to make up the numbers, far more important things in F1 than whether USF1 cars will be 23rd and 24th or if they will be 25th and 26th
Its funny I read his comments of
"the chassie is ready we are just waiting on Cosworth"
to mean... " the car is all ready we just need delivery of the engine then we are ready to get Cole Trickle and Ricky Bobby out on the test track"
Mind I have learned in life never to take what people say at face value.
With the way stefan GP are pushing to make 2010, it must be assumed someone isnt going to make it.
"the chassie is ready we are just waiting on Cosworth"
to mean... " the car is all ready we just need delivery of the engine then we are ready to get Cole Trickle and Ricky Bobby out on the test track"
Mind I have learned in life never to take what people say at face value.
With the way stefan GP are pushing to make 2010, it must be assumed someone isnt going to make it.
From a letter from Bob Varsha (SPEED TV commentator - USA):
QUOTE
I had dinner with Peter Windsor last weekend (Dec 12), and he said things are moving along on schedule. They are completing the jigs and molds, and finishing the first car, which gets written off in crash testing. Once the jigs are ready they can build cars at the rate of one every ten days or so, says Peter. The biggest problem they face right now is that things are apparently not going well at Cosworth in the UK. That is bad news for everyone, since Cosworth is building engines for at least four teams, including all three new ones plus Williams.
I'm certainly not the man to speak for the team, but let's remember that they're trying to compete in F1 on a very small budget. They don't have money or time to invest in fancy facilities and cosmetic attractions. In fact, the current building is an interim, until they get on their feet, when they plan to break ground on a purpose-built facility that will better suit the needs of both the team and the fans. According to Peter, they're all working 80-hour weeks, and will be for the forseeable future, even if all goes well. That doesn't leave much time for shmoozing fans and writing press releases. I'm not saying it's the right way to do this, but there are no instructions for starting an F1 team, and this is they way they chose to do it.
I know the team has been quiet, but that is deliberate. Like everything else they are doing, they have to prioritize. Instead of 100 engineers in the design office, they have 35. Rather than spend time on press releases, they are putting their heads down and getting on with the job, which is enormous when you consider that the first four races of next year are fly-away events, so they'll be working out of boxes rather than their transporters (which have been purchased). Here's what I can tell you: the drivers have basically been decided on, along with a group of young Americans who will be spread out across a development program starting in F2000 and working up to GP2. They also have additional sponsors, and all of this will be presented in a single announcement sometime after the first of the year.
We'll all have to be patient, and in the meantime, have a great holiday season.
BV
I'm certainly not the man to speak for the team, but let's remember that they're trying to compete in F1 on a very small budget. They don't have money or time to invest in fancy facilities and cosmetic attractions. In fact, the current building is an interim, until they get on their feet, when they plan to break ground on a purpose-built facility that will better suit the needs of both the team and the fans. According to Peter, they're all working 80-hour weeks, and will be for the forseeable future, even if all goes well. That doesn't leave much time for shmoozing fans and writing press releases. I'm not saying it's the right way to do this, but there are no instructions for starting an F1 team, and this is they way they chose to do it.
I know the team has been quiet, but that is deliberate. Like everything else they are doing, they have to prioritize. Instead of 100 engineers in the design office, they have 35. Rather than spend time on press releases, they are putting their heads down and getting on with the job, which is enormous when you consider that the first four races of next year are fly-away events, so they'll be working out of boxes rather than their transporters (which have been purchased). Here's what I can tell you: the drivers have basically been decided on, along with a group of young Americans who will be spread out across a development program starting in F2000 and working up to GP2. They also have additional sponsors, and all of this will be presented in a single announcement sometime after the first of the year.
We'll all have to be patient, and in the meantime, have a great holiday season.
BV
QUOTE (CONOSUR @ Dec 22 2009, 20:52)
From a letter from Bob Varsha (SPEED TV commentator - USA):
Good to hear this from Bob.
So, a 180° turn. That sounded a LOT different in spring.
Still have doubts ...
Still have doubts ...
QUOTE (Heasven @ Dec 22 2009, 15:32)
Good to hear this from Bob.
I'd say Bob's probably the best source to trust on the situation. It helps that he made very little mention of the team (even on air) until now. That way it isn't like he's a cheerleader for USF1.
I think this is as good of reason (for any of the noob teams) to keep speculation at a minimum.
QUOTE (CONOSUR @ Dec 22 2009, 14:52)
From a letter from Bob Varsha (SPEED TV commentator - USA):
...
The biggest problem they face right now is that things are apparently not going well at Cosworth in the UK. That is bad news for everyone, since Cosworth is building engines for at least four teams, including all three new ones plus Williams.
...
...
The biggest problem they face right now is that things are apparently not going well at Cosworth in the UK. That is bad news for everyone, since Cosworth is building engines for at least four teams, including all three new ones plus Williams.
...
So, what's up with Cosworth then?
They bit more than they can chew (too many teams)? something wrong with the engine itself?
What can be blamed on Cosworth?
I'm all for USF1, I'm one of Peters few fans, but in my opinion USF1 was chosen because it is an American outfit, and F-1 needs to get into the U.S. some way some how.
QUOTE (Slowinfastout @ Dec 22 2009, 09:30)
Don't worry, USF1 was initially selected by the FIA over the likes of Lola and others... and the FIA selection process was ruled to be tighter than a duck's ass..;)
I'm all for USF1, I'm one of Peters few fans, but in my opinion USF1 was chosen because it is an American outfit, and F-1 needs to get into the U.S. some way some how.
QUOTE (Slowinfastout @ Dec 22 2009, 16:37)
So, what's up with Cosworth then?
They bit more than they can chew (too many teams)? something wrong with the engine itself?
They bit more than they can chew (too many teams)? something wrong with the engine itself?
Possibly bit off more than they can chew. I saw something in another thread that talked about how busy Cosworth was with not only their F1 program, but also with building a special engine for the Aston Martin 77(or something like that), and developing plane engines, all at the same time.
QUOTE (Nathan @ Dec 22 2009, 16:37)
I'm all for USF1, I'm one of Peters few fans, but in my opinion USF1 was chosen because it is an American outfit, and F-1 needs to get into the U.S. some way some how.
I'm definitely no Windsor fan.. but apart from that and from the get go, I'm not a huge fan of the nationality thing, regardless of the country.. anyway, it would have made more sense if the concept was propped by an american as well..
I know the car could well be legitimately called american, but it looks like the usual figureheads, teamboss and drivers, wont be...
At the very least, they should have done the youtube thing properly, and do the reality TV crappola with the Speed channel, that was a good idea... (again not my kind of thing, but I could see the merits, etc..)
oh well..
It would be an utter shame and total rip off if they didn't make it. I mean, these things are supposed to be checked... FiA thinks they're cool so does FOTA. I wonder why Bernie seems to think different. If they cock up, serious reflection on entrance procedures is in order.
QUOTE (BullHead @ Dec 23 2009, 12:06)
It would be an utter shame and total rip off if they didn't make it. I mean, these things are supposed to be checked... FiA thinks they're cool so does FOTA. I wonder why Bernie seems to think different. If they cock up, serious reflection on entrance procedures is in order.
Bernie Ecclestone predicted that Jenson Button would stay at Mercedes. He also predicted that the FOTA dispute would be resolved within one week of Monaco.
QUOTE (Captain Tightpants @ Dec 22 2009, 20:53)
Bernie Ecclestone predicted that Jenson Button would stay at Mercedes. He also predicted that the FOTA dispute would be resolved within one week of Monaco.
Both 'positive' things for him to say at that moment, on his planet..
Why would Bernie say negative things about some new teams? That's not what Bernie does.. usually there's a method to Bernie's madness..
QUOTE (Slowinfastout @ Dec 23 2009, 02:58)
Both 'positive' things for him to say at that moment, on his planet..
Why would Bernie say negative things about some new teams? That's not what Bernie does.. usually there's a method to Bernie's madness..
Why would Bernie say negative things about some new teams? That's not what Bernie does.. usually there's a method to Bernie's madness..
Maybe, because he has some investments in other projects that would gain from getting an entrance instead of USF1 or Campos.... (Stefan GP???)
Bernie is a person that I really don't listen to too much on these matters, he either has some vested interests or he just rants on and is proven wrong later on...
I agree that bernie usually knows the inside scoop. However, I don't think that means that his comments are truthful. In my opinion, he is usually trying to accomplish something or nudge things one way or the other, not simply reporting things as he knows. That said, one possibility is that he is trying to put pressure on new teams to get in to the media more. Another possibility is that he is simply creating some drama so that when the new teams are on the grid, there will be great hoopla. Yes he would have to eat some crow, but I'm sure he will chase it with some vintage wine.
http://www.corsaonline.com.ar/2009/12/23/N...mo-contrato.php
From Corsa Online: next monday (28th) the last contract between USF1 and one of José María López's sponsors will be signed. After that, all the contracts with all the sponsors required will be signed, so it will be a matter of hours for the Río III-born driver to be (at last) confirmed as one of USF1 drivers for 2010. In a radio interview yesterday, López himself said he hoped to sign in December 30th, and, if all the burocratic stuff goes its way, he will be (but, considering the Christmas and New Year's holidays -this time of the year is a mess- I wouldn't be surprised if it's delayes until the first days of January). According to Corsa, in mid-january there will be a press conference in Argentina with Peter Windsor and Ken Anderson, I guess as some sort of "official" presentation. So, I guess we can say USF1 has their first driver now.
EDIT: JM López Sr. refered to the rumours about USF1 not racing next year and Ecclestone words: "we weren't worried at all by Ecclestone words. It's the same problem five teams have. Besides, there is enough budget to race. To be truthful, I'm not worried. If teams already invested 100 million dollars, they will put the cars on track. All the teams are working against the clock"
From Corsa Online: next monday (28th) the last contract between USF1 and one of José María López's sponsors will be signed. After that, all the contracts with all the sponsors required will be signed, so it will be a matter of hours for the Río III-born driver to be (at last) confirmed as one of USF1 drivers for 2010. In a radio interview yesterday, López himself said he hoped to sign in December 30th, and, if all the burocratic stuff goes its way, he will be (but, considering the Christmas and New Year's holidays -this time of the year is a mess- I wouldn't be surprised if it's delayes until the first days of January). According to Corsa, in mid-january there will be a press conference in Argentina with Peter Windsor and Ken Anderson, I guess as some sort of "official" presentation. So, I guess we can say USF1 has their first driver now.
EDIT: JM López Sr. refered to the rumours about USF1 not racing next year and Ecclestone words: "we weren't worried at all by Ecclestone words. It's the same problem five teams have. Besides, there is enough budget to race. To be truthful, I'm not worried. If teams already invested 100 million dollars, they will put the cars on track. All the teams are working against the clock"
Found this info on a blog site: that is not Anderson with the monocoque as they have it labeled, but Nick Craw the President of the FIA Senate. So the question is, is this really a picture of the first chassis that came out of the autoclave on Friday or is it a previous picture of a mockup taken when Craw visited USF1 earlier in the year. Windsor said the first chassis is out of the autoclave not just a monocoque, I would think that that means the complete car, monocoque, wings, side pods, etc. If it's only a mockup in the picture it would explain why the cockpit area is sealed off and not open the way it should be if it's a real chassis.
USF1's first chassis?
USF1's first chassis?
I guess USF1 have gotten to the point where they cannot do anything more until Cosworth deliver the engines.
QUOTE
I guess USF1 have gotten to the point where they cannot do anything more until Cosworth deliver the engines.
What's that behind the chassis?
They've delivered on their pomise of a YouTube channel.
QUOTE (Captain Tightpants @ Dec 24 2009, 10:00)
They've delivered on their pomise of a YouTube channel.
Check the USF1 car showed on the wall in the newest movie on the channel.
QUOTE (listerine @ Dec 24 2009, 09:29)
What's that behind the chassis?
A mock up engine from Cosworth so that the teams can assemble the cars and do all the fit and finish work that is required...
Tha latest video on the teams Youtube channel certainly indicates that the team is pushing ahead with the construction of a F1 car. So I guess those who believes that the team is just a publicity stunt and empty buildings should reconsider at least that part.
Hope they keep up progress and proves all the sceptics wrong (Bernie included).
Hope they keep up progress and proves all the sceptics wrong (Bernie included).
I too hope the Septics end up looking silly.
The video doesn't really show anything we didn't know before though. We knew they had machining facilities, so cut metal parts aren't a surprise. And the CF parts are all shown (except the roll hoop, and the cockpit cut-out.) in the tub photo. Six weeks ago this would have silenced the doubters, but now they still look behind.
The video doesn't really show anything we didn't know before though. We knew they had machining facilities, so cut metal parts aren't a surprise. And the CF parts are all shown (except the roll hoop, and the cockpit cut-out.) in the tub photo. Six weeks ago this would have silenced the doubters, but now they still look behind.
Nice video on Youtube but from July apparently and no sponsor logos in it. Where are they? Normally sponsor value is the whole point of these things, watch a McLaren one there's Vodafone, Boss, Santander and the rest of them all over the screen.
And the website is still "coming soon". Why? I suspect not having any sponsors would be too obvious there.
Same with the pics - blank walls in the background.
I hope they make it, but no money=no team.
And the website is still "coming soon". Why? I suspect not having any sponsors would be too obvious there.
Same with the pics - blank walls in the background.
I hope they make it, but no money=no team.
QUOTE (listerine @ Dec 24 2009, 15:58)
I too hope the Septics end up looking silly.
The video doesn't really show anything we didn't know before though. We knew they had machining facilities, so cut metal parts aren't a surprise. And the CF parts are all shown (except the roll hoop, and the cockpit cut-out.) in the tub photo. Six weeks ago this would have silenced the doubters, but now they still look behind.
The video doesn't really show anything we didn't know before though. We knew they had machining facilities, so cut metal parts aren't a surprise. And the CF parts are all shown (except the roll hoop, and the cockpit cut-out.) in the tub photo. Six weeks ago this would have silenced the doubters, but now they still look behind.
looking behind is one thing.. but what this demostrates is that the USF1 has true intentions in making the grid next year contrary to what others have posted here.
that youtube channel is great. although that latest report by bob saying that cosworth is behind schedule is really troubling not just for usf1 but for 3 other teams. the weird thing is that no one else is mentioning that cosworth is behind schedule.
I wonder when they plan to run the car on the track first time. Official testing is limited, but they can still run the car using the test driver in some circuits in the US.
The engine is not ready, but can they use similar motor? Almost everything can be done on computers nowadays, but F1 car can be fast right away out of the box?
In motogp, moto2 is new series starting from next year, and teams have to use new chassis and engines. The engines are not ready yet, but they have been testing the chassis for long time on the track. Some even competed minor local races.
The engine is not ready, but can they use similar motor? Almost everything can be done on computers nowadays, but F1 car can be fast right away out of the box?
In motogp, moto2 is new series starting from next year, and teams have to use new chassis and engines. The engines are not ready yet, but they have been testing the chassis for long time on the track. Some even competed minor local races.
QUOTE (Dulok @ Dec 24 2009, 05:05)
Windsor said the first chassis is out of the autoclave not just a monocoque, I would think that that means the complete car, monocoque, wings, side pods, etc.
No chassis always means monocoque.
I hope they do not put the radiators, gearbox, oil tank etc in the autoclave!
The others bodywork are very much minor components to make (may not need autoclave) apart from the fancy lightweight front and rear wings with their top-secret ligtweight internal structure.
QUOTE (Dulok @ Dec 24 2009, 05:05)
If it's only a mockup in the picture it would explain why the cockpit area is sealed off and not open the way it should be if it's a real chassis.
They may have manufactured it so that bit of the top half of the monocoque is removed after the part is cured.
Maybe you have allready noticed it... USF1 official website has finally started to deliver informations.
There's too much content in there to make this nothing more than a hoax, a scam or some kind of a vageuly-defined fraud. Anyone who still thinks this is a joke is having themselves on, and could probably do with a blank reality check.
QUOTE (Captain Tightpants @ Dec 25 2009, 13:26)
There's too much content in there to make this nothing more than a hoax, a scam or some kind of a vageuly-defined fraud. Anyone who still thinks this is a joke is having themselves on, and could probably do with a blank reality check.
It's easily the best website of any of the new teams (I guess that is a bad thing in the view of the people who think US F1 is a scam - should rather have used the money on the car etc...).
Good work US F1 Team!!!
QUOTE (Captain Tightpants @ Dec 25 2009, 15:26)
There's too much content in there to make this nothing more than a hoax, a scam or some kind of a vageuly-defined fraud. Anyone who still thinks this is a joke is having themselves on, and could probably do with a blank reality check.
The site looks like a blog made by some Charlotte student. I bet it was made by Windsor and every word and every photo there is by Windsor. And he is a master at bullsh*tting.
USF1 is not a hoax though, it was a PR exercise went too far.
The video going around their factory and the building of the car was interesting... They have quite a different atmosphere to the other teams. I really don't want to be negative but it looked a relitively ameture outfit. It is interesting that they have been so open with the design etc. I can't imagen anyone else showing off a car in so much detail at this point. I guess under the thinking that there is nothing there worth copying. It did seem very ... Generic ... Kind of like a rfactor f1 equivilent car from open wheel challenge.
QUOTE (LikesF1InAnUnhealthyWay @ Dec 25 2009, 17:44)
The video going around their factory and the building of the car was interesting... They have quite a different atmosphere to the other teams. I really don't want to be negative but it looked a relitively ameture outfit. It is interesting that they have been so open with the design etc. I can't imagen anyone else showing off a car in so much detail at this point. I guess under the thinking that there is nothing there worth copying. It did seem very ... Generic ... Kind of like a rfactor f1 equivilent car from open wheel challenge.
Which other teams are you comparing with?
I'm relieved to see the website running. Can anybody tell me why windsor is so hated by so many? I'm not saying he should or shouldn't be, I just don't understand where it comes from.
Anyway, glad to see them working. I suppose with all the negative comments/energy, I was worried that they were not working/out of money or whatever. Nice to see that they were working on the car, not on the website.
I love the "PR exercise gone too far" comment. If PW is such a master of PR BS, then why was he not one step ahead of the awful press USF1 has been getting?
Anyway, glad to see them working. I suppose with all the negative comments/energy, I was worried that they were not working/out of money or whatever. Nice to see that they were working on the car, not on the website.
I love the "PR exercise gone too far" comment. If PW is such a master of PR BS, then why was he not one step ahead of the awful press USF1 has been getting?
To be fair only Williams, mclaren and Honda. I have not seen any other operation floors in enough detail to compare. It's an off the cuff remark. Don't read too much into it.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.