QUOTE (Odvan @ Sep 5 2009, 17:29) 
Yea, I like kids. Like you. Now we saw your real face and arguments - my poor english. Perfik. 
As I said, moron.
Full Version: 2010 Silly Season (merged)
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 122, 123, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131
As I said, moron.
QUOTE (potmotr @ Sep 5 2009, 16:19)
Yeah, that’s true.
I’m not defending Alonso.
But I do think he’s much more of a team motivator than Raikkonen.
Alonso and Raikkonen are probably quite similar on raw pace.
But there is more to that game than that.
Why would Ferrari be replacing Raikkonen with Alonso otherwise?
I’m not defending Alonso.
But I do think he’s much more of a team motivator than Raikkonen.
Alonso and Raikkonen are probably quite similar on raw pace.
But there is more to that game than that.
Why would Ferrari be replacing Raikkonen with Alonso otherwise?
You argue that Alonso is a better team motivator, based on what? The evidence is mixed, at best. Is Ferrari replacing Kimi really? And if it turns out they are, is motivation the only reason behind it? Come on, they replaced MS with Kimi, following your logic leads to a very slippery slope.
Btw did you really predict that Fisi would never driver for Ferrari?
Alonso is many things - but team motivator he aint (fo show)
QUOTE (klover @ Sep 5 2009, 17:40)
You argue that Alonso is a better team motivator, based on what?
It's just based on my opinion and feeling about the situation, nothing more than that.
I think Alonso appears to really be able to judge a situation while on the track, call strategy from the car, and make forceful arguments towards the team if he thinks they are wrong.
I base this on the radio transmission etc.
QUOTE (klover @ Sep 5 2009, 17:40)
Is Ferrari replacing Kimi really? And if it turns out they are, is motivation the only reason behind it?
I really think they are. Almost everyone is reporting it is a done deal.
I think motivation and performance is a big part of it.
Kimi is the highest paid Formula One driver ever, but fell behind Massa in 08.
QUOTE (klover @ Sep 5 2009, 17:40)
Come on, they replaced MS with Kimi, following your logic leads to a very slippery slope.
How do you mean?
QUOTE (klover @ Sep 5 2009, 17:40)
Btw did you really predict that Fisi would never driver for Ferrari?
I thought he would last weekend.
Then I changed my mind on Monday after Mallya put out a statement saying he wouldn't be, and criticising his own commercial director for saying otherwise.
Two days later the deal was done, so I was wrong.
I might be wrong about Alonso too, but I really don't think I will be.
But this is the Silly Season forum, so many predictions will be incorrect. Doesn't stop us debating them though.
Is Alonso a team motivator? he's no MS, but still pretty decent when he feels it's "his" team.
There's an alternative reading to the Alonso/Raikkonen/Ferrari situation, which is Alonso has a deal for 2011, however knowing crashgate was around the corner he's trying to bring the deal forward to 2010. Kimi doesn't have a deal for 2011 but with Massa in convalescence is trying to get one. All the media circus you witness is just the management teams for Alonso and Raikkonen trying to get their clients a (better) deal.
QUOTE
There is great evidence to support your view, I mean look at what Alonso has achieved in Renault the last two season, pushing them all the way to glory and a WMSC hearing roflmao.gif
He achived good results with a piece of junk.
QUOTE (Odvan @ Sep 5 2009, 17:43)
Well, looking on the quali duels and compare with 2008 - Kimi did Massa this year. Not his fault two times when Massa got points he DNF because of the reliability. And season didn't over, development frozen and Kimi get from 3 races 24 points, best of all others. It's a fact.
Well, looking on the quali duels, Massa did Raikkonen in 2007. So, based on quali duels, Massa won in 07 and 08, if you want to give 09 to Raikkonen, based on quali only.
And the Monza 07 DNF that handed the WDC fight into Raikkonens hands wasn't Massa's fault either.
If we look at the race results, much more important in my book, Massa did Raikkonen in both 08 and 09.
And of course, overall, 2007-2009, Massa did Raikkonen by all means, he outqualified him 25 vs 18, and he outscored him as well, 205 vs 189. Those are the facts, my friend. I hope you like them.
QUOTE (Odvan @ Sep 5 2009, 17:43)
We don't know how it's going with Massa but I can't imagine him winning in Hungary or Spa. Massa win only from poles (except Bahrain 2008 when he was first in the first corner so it's like win from pole) or by help of teammate reliability (France 2008) and FIA (Spa 2008).
Of course you can't imagine that, with your Kimi blinkers. Doesn't make it an useful argument.
And it's quite nice to refute the Massa-wins-only-from-pole myth by delivering some counter-examples.
QUOTE (giacomo @ Sep 5 2009, 19:26)
My biased opinion
This not a thread for Kimi vs. Massa. I will not therefore speculate about last three races what could Felipe achieve or not.
Only one remark, you are quite passionate about your driver but still you shouldnt so easily dismiss facts about last three races before Felipes injury which made all the points difference between them this year.
In Turkey and Silverstone Kimi outqualified Felipe with margin but had bad luck in races being stuck all the time. Felipe could run his pace as was the case for KImi since Hungary. In Germany Kimi had DNF. So calling points as the true story of this year is simply dishonest.
QUOTE (potmotr @ Sep 5 2009, 17:49)
It's just based on my opinion and feeling about the situation, nothing more than that.
I think Alonso appears to really be able to judge a situation while on the track, call strategy from the car, and make forceful arguments towards the team if he thinks they are wrong.
I base this on the radio transmission etc.
I think Alonso appears to really be able to judge a situation while on the track, call strategy from the car, and make forceful arguments towards the team if he thinks they are wrong.
I base this on the radio transmission etc.
I dare you to post that on a certain other thread....
QUOTE (potmotr @ Sep 5 2009, 16:05)
It is fairly clear Kimi wants to stay at Ferrari but the team no longer wants him.
I think that has everything to do with his being outperformed by Massa from 2008 onward, and also the perception he has become a bit disinterested.
I can't think of any other reason why they'd have recruited Alonso.
I think that has everything to do with his being outperformed by Massa from 2008 onward, and also the perception he has become a bit disinterested.
I can't think of any other reason why they'd have recruited Alonso.
Is it really so clear that Kimi doesn't want to leave Ferrari?
The feeling to part their ways might be more mutual then people think, Kimi doesn't fit in with the team and they dont seem to understand him really. But Kimi isn't the type who will say anything against the team in public.
That is also a good reason to get Alonso in the team, they might feel that Alonso would fit in better with the team, added to that there is also the new Santander sponsorship.
QUOTE (intelligentsia @ Sep 5 2009, 18:51)
Is it really so clear that Kimi doesn't want to leave Ferrari?
The feeling to part their ways might be more mutual then people think, Kimi doesn't fit in with the team and they dont seem to understand him really. But Kimi isn't the type who will say anything against the team in public.
That is also a good reason to get Alonso in the team, they might feel that Alonso would fit in better with the team, added to that there is also the new Santander sponsorship.
The feeling to part their ways might be more mutual then people think, Kimi doesn't fit in with the team and they dont seem to understand him really. But Kimi isn't the type who will say anything against the team in public.
That is also a good reason to get Alonso in the team, they might feel that Alonso would fit in better with the team, added to that there is also the new Santander sponsorship.
Also no language barrier as Alonso speaks fluent Italian.
QUOTE (abc @ Sep 5 2009, 19:49)
This not a thread for Kimi vs. Massa. I will not therefore speculate about last three races what could Felipe achieve or not.
Only one remark, you are quite passionate about your driver but still you shouldnt so easily dismiss facts about last three races before Felipes injury which made all the points difference between them this year.
In Turkey and Silverstone Kimi outqualified Felipe with margin but had bad luck in races being stuck all the time. Felipe could run his pace as was the case for KImi since Hungary. In Germany Kimi had DNF. So calling points as the true story of this year is simply dishonest.
Only one remark, you are quite passionate about your driver but still you shouldnt so easily dismiss facts about last three races before Felipes injury which made all the points difference between them this year.
In Turkey and Silverstone Kimi outqualified Felipe with margin but had bad luck in races being stuck all the time. Felipe could run his pace as was the case for KImi since Hungary. In Germany Kimi had DNF. So calling points as the true story of this year is simply dishonest.
Yeah, talking about points is dishonest when Kimi did not score enough of them.
It's just unnecessary (not to mention off-topic). Kimi's being fired, and we're trying to find him a new employer. That Massa is generally superior is neither here nor there as he supposedly isn't about to be fired and thus doesn't need a new home just yet.
QUOTE (giacomo @ Sep 5 2009, 21:26)
Well, looking on the quali duels, Massa did Raikkonen in 2007. So, based on quali duels, Massa won in 07 and 08, if you want to give 09 to Raikkonen, based on quali only.
And the Monza 07 DNF that handed the WDC fight into Raikkonens hands wasn't Massa's fault either.
If we look at the race results, much more important in my book, Massa did Raikkonen in both 08 and 09.
And of course, overall, 2007-2009, Massa did Raikkonen by all means, he outqualified him 25 vs 18, and he outscored him as well, 205 vs 189. Those are the facts, my friend. I hope you like them.
And the Monza 07 DNF that handed the WDC fight into Raikkonens hands wasn't Massa's fault either.
If we look at the race results, much more important in my book, Massa did Raikkonen in both 08 and 09.
And of course, overall, 2007-2009, Massa did Raikkonen by all means, he outqualified him 25 vs 18, and he outscored him as well, 205 vs 189. Those are the facts, my friend. I hope you like them.
Who said Kimi handed WDC fight after Monza?
About quali - last year when Kimi with new updates since Hoka gets P4-P6 everybody said something about his motivation. And how Felipe strong in quali. This year situation turned - but still Kimi is bad and unmotivated. For me Kimi clearly doing better this year than Massa, especially last three races. And overall even in unsuited car beat Massa two years of three. With a small margin I might add. Which I think great result. And of course he win title in his first year.
QUOTE
Of course you can't imagine that, with your Kimi blinkers. Doesn't make it an useful argument.
And it's quite nice to refute the Massa-wins-only-from-pole myth by delivering some counter-examples.
And it's quite nice to refute the Massa-wins-only-from-pole myth by delivering some counter-examples.
Ok, give me examples of one of great Massa's victory, where he overtake somebody for P1 or use his magnificent race pace to did it on pit-stops. Or when he did something similar to Kimi's last race - on so-so car win races? Kimi has dozen examples. Felipe - no one.
QUOTE (kosmos @ Sep 5 2009, 18:08)
He achived good results with a piece of junk.
The Renault in the second half of 08 was pretty much the opposite of a piece of junk.
QUOTE (Odvan @ Sep 5 2009, 20:21)
Who said Kimi handed WDC fight after Monza?
About quali - last year when Kimi with new updates since Hoka gets P4-P6 everybody said something about his motivation. And how Felipe strong in quali. This year situation turned - but still Kimi is bad and unmotivated. For me Kimi clearly doing better this year than Massa, especially last three races. And overall even in unsuited car beat Massa two years of three. With a small margin I might add. Which I think great result. And of course he win title in his first year.
Ok, give me examples of one of great Massa's victory, where he overtake somebody for P1 or use his magnificent race pace to did it on pit-stops. Or when he did something similar to Kimi's last race - on so-so car win races? Kimi has dozen examples. Felipe - no one.
About quali - last year when Kimi with new updates since Hoka gets P4-P6 everybody said something about his motivation. And how Felipe strong in quali. This year situation turned - but still Kimi is bad and unmotivated. For me Kimi clearly doing better this year than Massa, especially last three races. And overall even in unsuited car beat Massa two years of three. With a small margin I might add. Which I think great result. And of course he win title in his first year.
Ok, give me examples of one of great Massa's victory, where he overtake somebody for P1 or use his magnificent race pace to did it on pit-stops. Or when he did something similar to Kimi's last race - on so-so car win races? Kimi has dozen examples. Felipe - no one.
Nothing but blah blah. 'For me', 'clearly doing better', 'unsuited car', laughable.
25 vs 18 in quali, 205 vs 189 in score, those are the facts.
QUOTE (giacomo @ Sep 5 2009, 18:40)
Nothing but blah blah. 'For me', 'clearly doing better', 'unsuited car', laughable.
25 vs 18 in quali, 205 vs 189 in score, those are the facts.
25 vs 18 in quali, 205 vs 189 in score, those are the facts.
0 vs 1 in WDC
QUOTE (giacomo @ Sep 5 2009, 20:40)
Nothing but blah blah. 'For me', 'clearly doing better', 'unsuited car', laughable.
25 vs 18 in quali, 205 vs 189 in score, those are the facts.
25 vs 18 in quali, 205 vs 189 in score, those are the facts.
Raikkonen, WDC, Massa, not. That's the fact that really counts. Who cares about points when you don't win the championship? I know Massa doesn't
Though I agree with you. Massa has been more convincing and overall in better form than Raikkonen at Ferrari. Though it's hard to dispute the fact that Raikkonen has been driving wonderfully the last three races. He is definitely better this year than he was in 2008.
QUOTE (abc @ Sep 5 2009, 17:49)
This not a thread for Kimi vs. Massa. I will not therefore speculate about last three races what could Felipe achieve or not.
Only one remark, you are quite passionate about your driver but still you shouldnt so easily dismiss facts about last three races before Felipes injury which made all the points difference between them this year.
In Turkey and Silverstone Kimi outqualified Felipe with margin but had bad luck in races being stuck all the time. Felipe could run his pace as was the case for KImi since Hungary. In Germany Kimi had DNF. So calling points as the true story of this year is simply dishonest.
Only one remark, you are quite passionate about your driver but still you shouldnt so easily dismiss facts about last three races before Felipes injury which made all the points difference between them this year.
In Turkey and Silverstone Kimi outqualified Felipe with margin but had bad luck in races being stuck all the time. Felipe could run his pace as was the case for KImi since Hungary. In Germany Kimi had DNF. So calling points as the true story of this year is simply dishonest.
Leave poor giacomo be, he has suffered enough already since Hungary.
QUOTE (Fallout @ Sep 5 2009, 20:44)
Raikkonen, WDC, Massa, not. That's the fact that really counts. Who cares about points when you don't win the championship? I know Massa doesn't
I never denied that Raikkonen was better in 2007. Fact. And WDC counts, fact.
But another fact is, 2008 counts as well. Otherwise there wouldn't be all those rumours about Ferrari being eager to sack Raikkonen.
QUOTE (Fallout @ Sep 5 2009, 20:44)
Though I agree with you. Massa has been more convincing and overall in better form than Raikkonen at Ferrari. Though it's hard to dispute the fact that Raikkonen has been driving wonderfully the last three races. He is definitely better this year than he was in 2008.
Yeah, this year he's driving at Massa level.
QUOTE (giacomo @ Sep 5 2009, 22:40)
Nothing but blah blah. 'For me', 'clearly doing better', 'unsuited car', laughable.
Why in this case you wright something about DNF? So you propose count only statistical facts, but then wright 'handed WDC fight' - where we can put this amazing fact?
QUOTE
25 vs 18 in quali, 205 vs 189 in score, those are the facts.
Yep. And you forget 0 vs 1 in WDC titles.
QUOTE (Odvan @ Sep 5 2009, 21:30)
Why in this case you wright something about DNF? So you propose count only statistical facts, but then wright 'handed WDC fight' - where we can put this amazing fact?
Confused?
QUOTE (giacomo @ Sep 5 2009, 20:26)
Yeah, this year he's driving at Massa level.
I'm struggling to remember the last time Felipe got 3 consecutive podiums (including a win) in a midfield car.
QUOTE (giacomo @ Sep 5 2009, 23:26)
Yeah, this year he's driving at Massa level.
I still can't see where Felipe win and scored in last races more points than anybody else.
QUOTE (RodrigoL @ Sep 5 2009, 21:32)
I'm struggling to remember the last time Felipe got 3 consecutive podiums (including a win) in a midfield car.
You are calling the Ferrari a midfield car?
QUOTE (RodrigoL @ Sep 5 2009, 20:32)
I'm struggling to remember the last time Felipe got 3 consecutive podiums (including a win) in a midfield car.
Has he ever got a podium in a mid-field car?
QUOTE (giacomo @ Sep 5 2009, 20:38)
You are calling the Ferrari a midfield car?
Well, Alonso fanboys used to call the R25 a midfield car and people believed them...so I took a shot
QUOTE (Brawn BGP 001 @ Sep 5 2009, 21:38)
Has he ever got a podium in a mid-field car?
Not in a midfield car, but in the F60.
Seriously, you guys are great fun.
QUOTE (giacomo @ Sep 5 2009, 20:38)
You are calling the Ferrari a midfield car?
I'd say it is. Red Bull, Brawn and Macca are faster (looks like FI might be too). So its at least 4th on the grid. Out of 10 teams I'd class the teams that are between 4th to 7th midfield.
QUOTE (giacomo @ Sep 5 2009, 23:31)
Confused?
Not really. You also can count who has more DNF: 6 (1 by pilot fault) vs 11 (2) .
QUOTE (giacomo @ Sep 5 2009, 23:38)
You are calling the Ferrari a midfield car?
Nope. It's a very slow and unreliable top car.
Am trying to work out what is confirmed where - without looking anything up, but just to refresh the thread and as a test. please do improve upon.
TBA - Brawn - Mercedes
Jenson Button
???? ????
Red Bull Racing - Mercedes (assumed)
Sebastian Vettel
Mark Webber
Ferrari
Kimi Raikkonen (contracted, but not confirmed)
Felipe Massa (contracted, but not confirmed fit)
Giancarlo Fisichella (confirmed as 3rd, poss Massa replacement)
Fernando Alonso (widely assumed)
McLaren - Mercedes
Lewis Hamilton
???? ????
Williams - Renault (assumed)
???? ????
???? ????
Panasonic Toyota
Timo Glock (contracted, but not confirmed)
???? ????
Renault (assumed tentatively)
???? ????
???? ????
Kingisher Force India - Mercedes
Adrian Sutil
???? ????
STR - Ferrari (assumed?)
???? ????
???? ????
USF1 - Cosworth
???? ????
???? ????
Manor - Cosworth
???? ????
???? ????
Campos - Cosworth
???? ????
???? ????
Thiessen F1/Lotus/whoever
???? ????
???? ????
How much can that monstrosity actually be improved upon with fact?
Include title sponsor, engine and tester/s. Heck, even team manager if you like.
TBA - Brawn - Mercedes
Jenson Button
???? ????
Red Bull Racing - Mercedes (assumed)
Sebastian Vettel
Mark Webber
Ferrari
Kimi Raikkonen (contracted, but not confirmed)
Felipe Massa (contracted, but not confirmed fit)
Giancarlo Fisichella (confirmed as 3rd, poss Massa replacement)
Fernando Alonso (widely assumed)
McLaren - Mercedes
Lewis Hamilton
???? ????
Williams - Renault (assumed)
???? ????
???? ????
Panasonic Toyota
Timo Glock (contracted, but not confirmed)
???? ????
Renault (assumed tentatively)
???? ????
???? ????
Kingisher Force India - Mercedes
Adrian Sutil
???? ????
STR - Ferrari (assumed?)
???? ????
???? ????
USF1 - Cosworth
???? ????
???? ????
Manor - Cosworth
???? ????
???? ????
Campos - Cosworth
???? ????
???? ????
Thiessen F1/Lotus/whoever
???? ????
???? ????
How much can that monstrosity actually be improved upon with fact?
Include title sponsor, engine and tester/s. Heck, even team manager if you like.
QUOTE (giacomo @ Sep 5 2009, 20:40)
25 vs 18 in quali, ............., those are the facts.
Nope, count again.
QUOTE (le chat noir @ Sep 5 2009, 22:29)
How much can that monstrosity actually be improved upon with fact?
Include title sponsor, engine and tester/s. Heck, even team manager if you like.
Include title sponsor, engine and tester/s. Heck, even team manager if you like.
A little patience will do the trick. This is certainly one of the more interesting silly seasons.
IMO Ferrari is the same chaos again as it was before Todt arrived.
Their driver politics is just a circus. Rossi, Badoer, Schumacher, Alonso, Fisichella... I cannot see a concept. Seems they want to sign up the whole grid.
And then the talk about a third car for next year. For what purpose? Probably they want that option because they are unable to make up their mind. Which is really goofy. Chosing two drivers is not rocket science.
QUOTE (le chat noir @ Sep 5 2009, 21:29)
Am trying to work out what is confirmed where - without looking anything up, but just to refresh the thread and as a test. please do improve upon.
TBA - Brawn - Mercedes
Jenson Button
???? ???? ---> Raikkonen, Rosberg, Barrichello
Red Bull Racing - Mercedes (assumed)
Sebastian Vettel
Mark Webber
Ferrari
Kimi Raikkonen (contracted, but not confirmed)
Felipe Massa (contracted, but not confirmed fit)
Giancarlo Fisichella (confirmed as 3rd, poss Massa replacement)
Fernando Alonso (widely assumed)
McLaren - Mercedes
Lewis Hamilton
???? ????--->Rosberg
Williams - Renault (assumed)
???? ????--->Hulkenberg, Heidfeld, Kubica (looking for a seat after BMW departure), López
???? ????
Panasonic Toyota
Timo Glock (contracted, but not confirmed)
???? ????--->Trulli... Nakajima..mmmm
Renault (assumed tentatively)
???? ????--->If they are in F1 next year, Kubica, Grosjean, Di Grassi... why not Alonso, thou everything indicates he will race for Ferrari
???? ????
Kingisher Force India - Mercedes
Adrian Sutil
???? ????--->Liuzzi, Fisichella, Petrov
STR - Ferrari (assumed?)
???? ????--->Buemi, Alguersuari, why the hell not Loeb, López is in contact with them too...
???? ????
USF1 - Cosworth
???? ????--->Wurz, a USA driver
???? ????
Manor - Cosworth
???? ????--->Davidson, Carroll, Paffett and Guerrieri have been rumoured
???? ????
Campos - Cosworth
???? ????--->Adrián Campos talked about De la Rosa, Senna, Petrov, Di Grassi, Pérez
???? ????
Thiessen F1/Lotus/whoever----> Epsilon Euskadi
???? ????--->Anyone with money I guess, or a well stablished driver without a secure seat, like Heidfeld or Trulli if he leaves Toyota...
???? ????
How much can that monstrosity actually be improved upon with fact?
Include title sponsor, engine and tester/s. Heck, even team manager if you like.
TBA - Brawn - Mercedes
Jenson Button
???? ???? ---> Raikkonen, Rosberg, Barrichello
Red Bull Racing - Mercedes (assumed)
Sebastian Vettel
Mark Webber
Ferrari
Kimi Raikkonen (contracted, but not confirmed)
Felipe Massa (contracted, but not confirmed fit)
Giancarlo Fisichella (confirmed as 3rd, poss Massa replacement)
Fernando Alonso (widely assumed)
McLaren - Mercedes
Lewis Hamilton
???? ????--->Rosberg
Williams - Renault (assumed)
???? ????--->Hulkenberg, Heidfeld, Kubica (looking for a seat after BMW departure), López
???? ????
Panasonic Toyota
Timo Glock (contracted, but not confirmed)
???? ????--->Trulli... Nakajima..mmmm
Renault (assumed tentatively)
???? ????--->If they are in F1 next year, Kubica, Grosjean, Di Grassi... why not Alonso, thou everything indicates he will race for Ferrari
???? ????
Kingisher Force India - Mercedes
Adrian Sutil
???? ????--->Liuzzi, Fisichella, Petrov
STR - Ferrari (assumed?)
???? ????--->Buemi, Alguersuari, why the hell not Loeb, López is in contact with them too...
???? ????
USF1 - Cosworth
???? ????--->Wurz, a USA driver
???? ????
Manor - Cosworth
???? ????--->Davidson, Carroll, Paffett and Guerrieri have been rumoured
???? ????
Campos - Cosworth
???? ????--->Adrián Campos talked about De la Rosa, Senna, Petrov, Di Grassi, Pérez
???? ????
Thiessen F1/Lotus/whoever----> Epsilon Euskadi
???? ????--->Anyone with money I guess, or a well stablished driver without a secure seat, like Heidfeld or Trulli if he leaves Toyota...
???? ????
How much can that monstrosity actually be improved upon with fact?
Include title sponsor, engine and tester/s. Heck, even team manager if you like.
Some suggestions based on rumours and confirmed contacts...
QUOTE (giacomo @ Sep 5 2009, 22:46)
IMO Ferrari is the same chaos again as it was before Todt arrived.
Their driver politics is just a circus. Rossi, Badoer, Schumacher, Alonso, Fisichella... I cannot see a concept. Seems they want to sign up the whole grid.
And then the talk about a third car for next year. For what purpose? Probably they want that option because they are unable to make up their mind. Which is really goofy. Chosing two drivers is not rocket science.
Their driver politics is just a circus. Rossi, Badoer, Schumacher, Alonso, Fisichella... I cannot see a concept. Seems they want to sign up the whole grid.
And then the talk about a third car for next year. For what purpose? Probably they want that option because they are unable to make up their mind. Which is really goofy. Chosing two drivers is not rocket science.
Not just your opinion. Lauda said a long time ago that when the Italians take over again it will be a circus like in the early 90's.
Managementwise it gets worse every year since Todt left, IMHO.
QUOTE (giacomo @ Sep 6 2009, 00:46)
And then the talk about a third car for next year. For what purpose?
They need carriage for sponsors money if MS could drive it.
i dont see a Alonso/Massa combination working that well....how is Massa going to react when the team starts centering around Alonso? Kimi would not be that hard to manage
obviously though......it would be a PR nightmare to get rid of Massa
obviously though......it would be a PR nightmare to get rid of Massa
QUOTE (peroa @ Sep 5 2009, 16:53)
Not just your opinion. Lauda said a long time ago that when the Italians take over again it will be a circus like in the early 90's.
Managementwise it gets worse every year since Todt left, IMHO.
Managementwise it gets worse every year since Todt left, IMHO.
I've had the same thoughts circling round my mind for awhile. Ever since Schumacher/Todt/Brawn left the ship around 2006-2007, the team's management started to get worse, a lot worse.
QUOTE (giacomo @ Sep 5 2009, 23:46)
IMO Ferrari is the same chaos again as it was before Todt arrived.
Their driver politics is just a circus. Rossi, Badoer, Schumacher, Alonso, Fisichella... I cannot see a concept. Seems they want to sign up the whole grid.
And then the talk about a third car for next year. For what purpose? Probably they want that option because they are unable to make up their mind. Which is really goofy. Chosing two drivers is not rocket science.
Their driver politics is just a circus. Rossi, Badoer, Schumacher, Alonso, Fisichella... I cannot see a concept. Seems they want to sign up the whole grid.
And then the talk about a third car for next year. For what purpose? Probably they want that option because they are unable to make up their mind. Which is really goofy. Chosing two drivers is not rocket science.
QUOTE (peroa @ Sep 5 2009, 23:53)
Not just your opinion. Lauda said a long time ago that when the Italians take over again it will be a circus like in the early 90's.
Managementwise it gets worse every year since Todt left, IMHO.
Managementwise it gets worse every year since Todt left, IMHO.
Completely agree. But like Lauda and many others said this was to be expected.
QUOTE (Dino Scuderia @ Sep 6 2009, 13:00)
He didn't mention which grid, did he?
It would be quite a surprise, though, seeing the Minardi name back on the entry list. I do reckon he'll use the Minardi name.
QUOTE (Dino Scuderia @ Sep 6 2009, 12:00)
I dont think that is the real one somehow.
Yeah, I'm calling BS on that one, too.
QUOTE (Captain Tightpants @ Sep 6 2009, 13:59)
Yeah, I'm calling BS on that one, too.
Funny though.
QUOTE (hello86 @ Sep 5 2009, 11:00)
You are right that there are many hints that Ferrari may kick him out. But until now this are just rumours started by the press. No one who is really involved in this story (Ferrari, Kimi, Alonso) did indicate that Alonso comes to Ferrari and Kimi has to leave. So I prefer to wait until they announce anything and don´t state it as a fact.
And that would be the smart thing to do - wait for those actually involved to make an official announcement.
QUOTE (rce @ Sep 7 2009, 02:22)
And that would be the smart thing to do - wait for those actually involved to make an official announcement.
It would indeed be the smart thing to do... but hey, where's the fun in that?
QUOTE (Mandzipop @ Sep 5 2009, 17:33)
The Italian radio reported that Steve Robertson (Kimi's manager) proposed his conditions regarding the Finn. If Ferrari did not accept the forfeit asked for breach of the contract, his proposal was the resignation of Stefano Domenicali and Kimi's contract extension to 2011.
Ridiculous. Im pretty sure that such a demand would not have been made.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.