QUOTE (Tomerell @ Sep 14 2009, 15:46) 
Would it be grand if Rubens wins the title and still get replaced by Nico...
... and take #1 with him to Williams-Renault.
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... and take #1 with him to Williams-Renault.
QUOTE (kismet @ Sep 14 2009, 17:33)
Yes, and so could Rubens. Button hasn't won it yet, there are races to go. It's going to look a bit silly if they boot the reigning WDC... even if it's only a middle-aged, balding Brazilian with no future in the sport.
Rubens FTW!
Rubens FTW!
I'm absolutely indifferent who win the title but it won't be Rubens - they will change his gearbox or he stall again, etc.
QUOTE (vsubravet @ Sep 14 2009, 13:18)
Under normal circumstances they wouldn't, shouldn't and can't. But if Mercedes, as reported, is purchasing the team then they would like to place a German driver in the team. Ross Brawn has a tough decision - manufacturer backing with lots of funds or retain one of their star drivers
I don't understand where Mercedes' sudden desire to have a German driver came from? Why does everyone continually suggest that Mercedes insists on a German driver, after over a decade of not caring about it? Here's a list of Germans that they did not have to have:
1. Schumacher
2. Frentzen in 1997, after a great year at Sauber
3. Heidfeld in 2002
4. Heidfeld or Ralf in 2005
5. Heidfeld, Rosberg, Vettel or Sutil in 2007, 2008, or 2009.
And honestly, I really can't blame them for not picking up a German driver (just to have one). Once Schumacher was at Ferrari, he seemed permanently out of reach. Frentzen would have been an understandable choice in 1997. Some people felt that Mclaren snubbed Heidfeld for Raikkonen in 2002, but in retrospect it was a smart choice. I certainly wouldn't have passed up Montoya for Heidfeld or Ralf in 2005. Alonso was a double world champion and Hamilton was the Mclaren prodigy so their seats made sense. Kovalainen's in 2008 and 2009 could (and perhaps should) have gone to one of the German drivers listed, but it didn't.
So once again, why now? Why does Mercedes need a German now? Next year they will be the only German manufacturer in F1, so even with the economic crisis, they won't be competing for the affection of other German f1 fans with BMW...
Because McLaren are big bad evil and xenophobic against german drivers. Only drivers. They are ok with german directors and business partners.
QUOTE (lustigson @ Sep 14 2009, 16:47)
... and take #1 with him to Williams-Renault.
Now that would be Grand
Summary of this thread to date: nobody knows jack. 
QUOTE (Owen @ Sep 14 2009, 22:22)
Summary of this thread to date: nobody knows jack.
Well, if you're referring to Jack Villeneuve, he stated that he'd like to make a comeback.
QUOTE (lustigson @ Sep 14 2009, 21:41)
Well, if you're referring to Jack Villeneuve, he stated that he'd like to make a comeback.
And with the rumours of Craig Pollock and Renualt.
QUOTE (Brawn BGP 001 @ Sep 14 2009, 22:44)
And with the rumours of Craig Pollock and Renualt.
Good point. I hadn't thought of that, yet.
Maybe Pollock should lure some big corporation to take-over the Enstone team, should Renault be/feel forced to quit F1, and rename the team after them.
You're being silly. And this thread is clearly no place for that.
QUOTE (Beamer @ Sep 14 2009, 13:13)
And why exactly would Brawn want to change anything in their lineup? 
I seem to have missed that, I was under the impression that having 2 teammates fighting it for the title is no reason whatsoever to change anything?
I seem to have missed that, I was under the impression that having 2 teammates fighting it for the title is no reason whatsoever to change anything? Well it's OK this year but Ross knows if things get tight next year he doesn't have a top 4/5 driver at the moment. He needs Kubi or Kimi really.
QUOTE (undersquare @ Sep 14 2009, 22:07)
Well it's OK this year but Ross knows if things get tight next year he doesn't have a top 4/5 driver at the moment. He needs Kubi or Kimi really.
Ummm...how has Kubi proved himself to be a top 4/5 driver thid year????? or infact any better then Rubens or Jenson.
QUOTE (GNT4ME @ Sep 14 2009, 23:02)
Ummm...how has Kubi proved himself to be a top 4/5 driver thid year????? or infact any better then Rubens or Jenson.
Well it's hard to separate the driver from the car, BMW have been rubbish this year and the Brawn has been very flattering. I agree to an extent about Kubi, it's not really proven yet, but last year Kubi was hot and Jense and Rubens were not. Take the teams' attitude as a more independent gauge, BMW chose Kubi over Vettel, on their data, while in the autosport team principals' driver rating at the end of last season Ross didn't rate either Jense or Rubens in his top 6. Jense has been dumped twice by teams with his data, and Rubens spent years as a no 2. Kubi lost 7 kg to be more competitive. Put all that together and I'd make the swap, personally.
QUOTE (undersquare @ Sep 14 2009, 23:37)
Jense has been dumped twice by teams with his data,
I'm a bit puzzled by the meaning of this sentence.
You can't really say he was dumped for Montoya in 2001, I think Williams' plan was to go for Ralf/Montoya in 2001 all along and his 2000 was surely above expectation.
And the Renault/BAR change after 2002 can hardly been called dumping as well. He ended up pretty clearly ahead of Trulli, and got a quite decent new opportunity at BAR.
Am I missing something?
QUOTE (scheivlak @ Sep 14 2009, 23:51)
I'm a bit puzzled by the meaning of this sentence.
You can't really say he was dumped for Montoya in 2001, I think Williams' plan was to go for Ralf/Montoya in 2001 all along and his 2000 was surely above expectation.
And the Renault/BAR change after 2002 can hardly been called dumping as well. He ended up pretty clearly ahead of Trulli, and got a quite decent new opportunity at BAR.
Am I missing something?
You can't really say he was dumped for Montoya in 2001, I think Williams' plan was to go for Ralf/Montoya in 2001 all along and his 2000 was surely above expectation.
And the Renault/BAR change after 2002 can hardly been called dumping as well. He ended up pretty clearly ahead of Trulli, and got a quite decent new opportunity at BAR.
Am I missing something?
Well I agree there were specific circumstances but in general teams hang onto the very top drivers like glue. Jense got swappped out. My memory is that he was nearly out of F1 and there was a lot of relief in the UK when Fry picked him up.
QUOTE (undersquare @ Sep 15 2009, 00:03)
Well I agree there were specific circumstances but in general teams hang onto the very top drivers like glue. Jense got swappped out. My memory is that he was nearly out of F1 and there was a lot of relief in the UK when Fry picked him up.
Not but Dave Richards - googling I found this interesting poll: http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?show...aded&start=
QUOTE (undersquare @ Sep 15 2009, 00:03)
Well I agree there were specific circumstances but in general teams hang onto the very top drivers like glue. Jense got swappped out. My memory is that he was nearly out of F1 and there was a lot of relief in the UK when Fry picked him up.
It was either Jaguar or BAR IIRC.
So glad he chose BAR.
QUOTE (undersquare @ Sep 15 2009, 00:03)
Well I agree there were specific circumstances but in general teams hang onto the very top drivers like glue. Jense got swappped out. My memory is that he was nearly out of F1 and there was a lot of relief in the UK when Fry picked him up.
He got swapped out cause Alonso was coming up to replace him and Alonso was quick and cheap, Flavio's favorite 2 traits in a driver
QUOTE (undersquare @ Sep 15 2009, 00:03)
Well I agree there were specific circumstances but in general teams hang onto the very top drivers like glue. Jense got swappped out. My memory is that he was nearly out of F1 and there was a lot of relief in the UK when Fry picked him up.
Not Fry, but Dave Richards. Googleing I found this interesting poll: http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?show...aded&start=
QUOTE (scheivlak @ Sep 15 2009, 00:16)
Not but Dave Richards - googling I found this interesting poll: http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?show...aded&start=
Yes Richards that's right, interesting. Richards talking up his boy, but a bit hard to believe there was a scramble for Jense after that Benetton season, even in the OP HSJ points out he'd been outqualifiied by his teammate every season. Here's the poll after 108 votes:
multiple WDC titles [ 2 ] [1.85%]
one WDC title on merit [ 5 ] [4.63%]
lucky to win a title, 50-50% or worse but could just make it [ 4 ] [3.70%]
no WDC, but should win races [ 29 ] [26.85%]
lucky to win races at all, but a good point-scorer [ 29 ] [26.85%]
a solid point-scorer, probably no race vics [ 10 ] [9.26%]
a decent point-scorer, definitely no race vics [ 13 ] [12.04%]
a so-so point-scorer or not even that, CART awaits... [ 13 ] [12.04%]
So most members rated him midfield, at that time. I'd say top 10 now, but not top 5.
QUOTE (engel @ Sep 15 2009, 00:17)
He got swapped out cause Alonso was coming up to replace him and Alonso was quick and cheap, Flavio's favorite 2 traits in a driver
Yes I remember, how we whined
. But Fisi had trampled him underfoot in that difficult car. Flav was a bastard then as now but it must have been an easy decision.
QUOTE (scheivlak @ Sep 15 2009, 04:51)
I'm a bit puzzled by the meaning of this sentence.
You can't really say he was dumped for Montoya in 2001, I think Williams' plan was to go for Ralf/Montoya in 2001 all along and his 2000 was surely above expectation.
And the Renault/BAR change after 2002 can hardly been called dumping as well. He ended up pretty clearly ahead of Trulli, and got a quite decent new opportunity at BAR.
Am I missing something?
You can't really say he was dumped for Montoya in 2001, I think Williams' plan was to go for Ralf/Montoya in 2001 all along and his 2000 was surely above expectation.
And the Renault/BAR change after 2002 can hardly been called dumping as well. He ended up pretty clearly ahead of Trulli, and got a quite decent new opportunity at BAR.
Am I missing something?
If he wasn't dumped for montoya and alonso, what was he then? Replaced?...
QUOTE (BMW_F1 @ Sep 15 2009, 00:48)
If he wasn't dumped for montoya and alonso, what was he then? Replaced?...
Have a closer look at the Benetton/Renault situation after 2001 and 2002.
Fisichella scored more points than Button in 2001. Yet Fisi was dumped - or replaced? (Don't forget Jordan was already very much on the way down during the 2001 season)
Button scored more points than Trulli in 2002. Yet Button was dumped - or replaced?
The 2002/2003 season changes had more to do with Flavio's games than with the actual performances of his drivers.
QUOTE (undersquare @ Sep 15 2009, 00:42)
Yes I remember, how we whined . But Fisi had trampled him underfoot in that difficult car. Flav was a bastard then as now but it must have been an easy decision.
. But Fisi had trampled him underfoot in that difficult car. Flav was a bastard then as now but it must have been an easy decision.Yet he kept Button after 2001....
QUOTE (undersquare @ Sep 15 2009, 00:31)
Yes Richards that's right, interesting. Richards talking up his boy, but a bit hard to believe there was a scramble for Jense after that Benetton season, even in the OP HSJ points out he'd been outqualifiied by his teammate every season. Here's the poll after 108 votes:
multiple WDC titles [ 2 ] [1.85%]
one WDC title on merit [ 5 ] [4.63%]
lucky to win a title, 50-50% or worse but could just make it [ 4 ] [3.70%]
no WDC, but should win races [ 29 ] [26.85%]
lucky to win races at all, but a good point-scorer [ 29 ] [26.85%]
a solid point-scorer, probably no race vics [ 10 ] [9.26%]
a decent point-scorer, definitely no race vics [ 13 ] [12.04%]
a so-so point-scorer or not even that, CART awaits... [ 13 ] [12.04%]
So most members rated him midfield, at that time. I'd say top 10 now, but not top 5.
multiple WDC titles [ 2 ] [1.85%]
one WDC title on merit [ 5 ] [4.63%]
lucky to win a title, 50-50% or worse but could just make it [ 4 ] [3.70%]
no WDC, but should win races [ 29 ] [26.85%]
lucky to win races at all, but a good point-scorer [ 29 ] [26.85%]
a solid point-scorer, probably no race vics [ 10 ] [9.26%]
a decent point-scorer, definitely no race vics [ 13 ] [12.04%]
a so-so point-scorer or not even that, CART awaits... [ 13 ] [12.04%]
So most members rated him midfield, at that time. I'd say top 10 now, but not top 5.
I qouted this poll to show how things can change....
QUOTE (scheivlak @ Sep 15 2009, 01:01)
I qouted this poll to show how things can change....
I does show you, people comparing him to people like Panis and Brundle, although back then them comparisons were valid.
Wonder if Button at Brawn is not set in stone.
It emerged last night that talks for a new contract with Brawn GP for next year have stalled as his team refuse to come up with a pay offer to reward his achievement.
article here
Brawn playing hard ball? Brawn has interesting alternatives? MB influence?
It emerged last night that talks for a new contract with Brawn GP for next year have stalled as his team refuse to come up with a pay offer to reward his achievement.
article here
Brawn playing hard ball? Brawn has interesting alternatives? MB influence?
While I certainly don't put button up there with the likes of Alonso, Hamilton, or Raikkonen - he made a pretty big gesture in cutting his salary even though he was legally entitled to all that cash. Pretty weak if he delivers a WDC (albeit in questionable style) and they don't give him anything for it.
QUOTE (stonebutter @ Sep 15 2009, 03:23)
While I certainly don't put button up there with the likes of Alonso, Hamilton, or Raikkonen - he made a pretty big gesture in cutting his salary even though he was legally entitled to all that cash. Pretty weak if he delivers a WDC (albeit in questionable style) and they don't give him anything for it.
They probably think a WDC is enough reward.
Apparent reason why Kubica isn't talking to Williams any more:
Williams wants the engines (if Mercedes-Benz engines are not available) but that deal was being blocked by Flavio Briatore, who was trying to manoeuvre Robert Kubica into a position where he would sign for Renault but telling Williams that they could not have the engines if they signed Kubica.
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21826.html
Williams wants the engines (if Mercedes-Benz engines are not available) but that deal was being blocked by Flavio Briatore, who was trying to manoeuvre Robert Kubica into a position where he would sign for Renault but telling Williams that they could not have the engines if they signed Kubica.
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21826.html
So, we've now got the possibility of 14 teams?!
Do we have enough drivers?
Do we have enough drivers?
QUOTE (D.M.N. @ Sep 15 2009, 18:27)
Do we have enough drivers?
Given the way some people talk about him, Fernando Alonso should be able to drive for three teams at once.
QUOTE (CaptainJackSparrow @ Sep 15 2009, 08:26)
Apparent reason why Kubica isn't talking to Williams any more:
Williams wants the engines (if Mercedes-Benz engines are not available) but that deal was being blocked by Flavio Briatore, who was trying to manoeuvre Robert Kubica into a position where he would sign for Renault but telling Williams that they could not have the engines if they signed Kubica.
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21826.html
Williams wants the engines (if Mercedes-Benz engines are not available) but that deal was being blocked by Flavio Briatore, who was trying to manoeuvre Robert Kubica into a position where he would sign for Renault but telling Williams that they could not have the engines if they signed Kubica.
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21826.html
how sleazy
Emirates Brawn Mercedes
Brawn BGP 002 – Mercedes FO108X (currently; Mercedes rumourd in (partly) take-over) / Renault RS27 (should Red Bull and Mercedes get together)
1. Jenson Button (on a multi-year deal with options?)
2. Rubens Barrichello (one more season?)
Nico Rosberg (likely dependent on Mercedes deal)
Kimi Räikkönen (rumoured if the Alonso-Ferrari deal comes to fruition, and Rosberg goes to McLaren)
Bruno Senna (will he get his chance? Might be unlikely if Brawn lift the WDC/WCC)
Red Bull Racing
Red Bull RB6 – Renault RS27 (currently) / Mercedes FO108X (rumoured)
3. Sebastian Vettel (on a multi-year deal until '11, with an option for '12)
4. Mark Webber (re-signed for ‘10)
Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro (Santander title sponsor?)
Ferrari F2010 – Ferrari 056
5. Felipe Massa (contracted until ‘10)
Giancarlo Fisichella (signed testing deal; may be recruted for race team if Massa's not fit)
6. Kimi Räikkönen (contracted until ‘10)
Fernando Alonso (rumoured since late '07)
Vodafone McLaren Mercedes
McLaren MP4-25 – Mercedes FO108X
7. Lewis Hamilton (contracted until '12)
8. Heikki Kovalainen ('10 option not yet taken up)
Nico Rosberg (rumoured for McLaren since 2008)
Gary Paffet (long-time McLaren test driver)
Kimi Räikkönen (rumoured if the Alonso-Ferrari deal comes to fruition, and Rosberg goes to Brawn)
Panasonic Toyota Racing
Toyota TF110 – Toyota RVX-10
9. Timo Glock (re-signed for 2009; on a multi-year deal with (yearly?) options; unclear if '10 option has been taken up)
10. Jarno Trulli (a new deal is unlikely, according to team bosses)
Kazuki Nakajima (allegedly has a long-term Toyota deal, but may not have the ultimate skill to make in in the big time)
Kamui Kobayashi (current test driver)
Kimi Räikkönen (rumoured, though unlikely)
AT&T Williams
Williams FW32 – Toyota RVX-10 (team asked to get out of 2010 contract) / Renault RS27 (preferred option for the team, dependent on Red Bull choice, and whether Kubica is taken up by Renault) / Mercedes FO108X (dependent on Red Bull choice) / Cosworth CA2010 (under review, too)
11. Robert Kubica (Williams said they’d like an experienced driver in ‘10)
Rubens Barrichello (Williams said they’d like an experienced driver in ‘10)
Adam Carroll (GP2 race winner and A1GP champion, has been approached by 2 teams for ‘10)
12. Nico Hülkenberg (test driver currently in GP2)
Kazuki Nakajima (current driver, likely dependent on Toyota power)
Renault F1 Team
Renault R30 – Renault R27
14. Fernando Alonso (signed a '09-'10 deal, but may have a get-out clause, should he join Ferrari)
Robert Kubica (once in Renault’s Driver Development Program; may jump ship from BMW)
15. Romain Grosjean (likely)
Lucas Di Grassi (long time Renault development and test driver)
Scuderia Toro Rosso
Toro Roso STR5 – Ferrari 056 (Ferrari contract allegedly runs until ‘10) / Renault R27 (if Red Bull-Mercedes comes to fruition)
16. Sébastien Buemi (hard to see him dropped after some solid drives)
17. Jaime Alguersuari, jr. (replaced Bourdais mid-season '09, likely to stay on)
Brendon Hartley (Red Bull junior driver and tester)
Neel Jani (finally he gets his chance, but 2 Swiss drivers at STR?)
Force India F1 Team (Aston Martin Racing; in Prodrive take-over)
Force India VJM03 (Aston Martin DBF1-10) – Mercedes FO108X
18. Adrian Sutil (another year; where would he go otherwise?)
19. Vitantonio Liuzzi (allegedly has '10-'11 deal)
Karun Chandhok (after another GP2 season, he gets the nod from Mallya; will test McLaren simulator)
Neel Jani (will test McLaren simulator)
Telefónica Campos Meta Team
Campos CM10 – Cosworth CA2010 (Dallara-designed and -built car)
20. Pedro de la Rosa (experienced test driver; excellent choice to develop the new car)
Roldán Rodríguez (Spanish GP2 driver)
Javier Villa (Spanish GP2 driver)
21. Vitaly Petrov (although Russian, he drove for Campos/Barwa in GP2 successfully, and brings sponsorship, too)
Giorgio Pantano (although Italian, he was GP2 champion for Campos in ‘08)
Adrián Vallés (Spanish WSR driver, drove for Campos in GP2 in ‘06)
Pastor Maldonado (talented Venezuelan, at least speaks Spanish)
Virgin Manor F1 Team (likely renamed Virgin F1 Team)
Manor BW01 (Virgin VF1-10) – Cosworth CA2010 (car designed and built by Nick Wirth, formerly of Simtek and Benetton)
22. Anthony Davidson (experienced ex-F1 driver)
Lucas Di Grassi (GP2 race winner, did F3 for Manor in 2005)
23. Adam Carroll (GP2 race winner and A1GP champion, has been approached by 2 teams for ‘10)
Mike Conway (GP2 race winner, currently in IndyCar)
Best Buy Team US F1
US F1-10 – Cosworth CA2010 (contracted) / Toyota RVX-10 (rumoured)
24. [color="blue"]Alex Wurz (although Austrian, experienced test driver; excellent choice to develop the new car)
Pedro de la Rosa (although Spanish, experienced test driver; excellent choice to develop the new car)
Franck Montagny (rumoured although French, has some experience)
25. Ryan Hunter-Reay (experienced driver)
Jonathan Summerton (oft-rumoured, but still young)
Marco Andretti (some people believe he has what it takes for F1)
Graham Rahal (rumoured)
1Malaysia Lotus F1 Team
Lotus 110 – Cosworth CA2010
26. Neel Jani (allegedly aligned with the Malaysian group)
27. Bruno Senna (wouldn't that be nice)
Alex Yoong (experienced and, well, Malaysian)
Sauber F1 Team (BMW-owned team did not sign 2010-2012 Concorde Agreement, but obtained '14th place'; talks on allowing 14 teams in 2010 ongoing)
Sauber C25 – Ferrari 056 (again with Petronas badge?)
28. Robert Kubica (contracted for '09; unlikely to stay on)
29. Nick Heidfeld (contracted for '09; may stay on)
Christian Klien (current test driver; could make for a typically sound Sauber line-up with Heidfeld)
Brawn BGP 002 – Mercedes FO108X (currently; Mercedes rumourd in (partly) take-over) / Renault RS27 (should Red Bull and Mercedes get together)
1. Jenson Button (on a multi-year deal with options?)
2. Rubens Barrichello (one more season?)
Nico Rosberg (likely dependent on Mercedes deal)
Kimi Räikkönen (rumoured if the Alonso-Ferrari deal comes to fruition, and Rosberg goes to McLaren)
Bruno Senna (will he get his chance? Might be unlikely if Brawn lift the WDC/WCC)
Red Bull Racing
Red Bull RB6 – Renault RS27 (currently) / Mercedes FO108X (rumoured)
3. Sebastian Vettel (on a multi-year deal until '11, with an option for '12)
4. Mark Webber (re-signed for ‘10)
Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro (Santander title sponsor?)
Ferrari F2010 – Ferrari 056
5. Felipe Massa (contracted until ‘10)
Giancarlo Fisichella (signed testing deal; may be recruted for race team if Massa's not fit)
6. Kimi Räikkönen (contracted until ‘10)
Fernando Alonso (rumoured since late '07)
Vodafone McLaren Mercedes
McLaren MP4-25 – Mercedes FO108X
7. Lewis Hamilton (contracted until '12)
8. Heikki Kovalainen ('10 option not yet taken up)
Nico Rosberg (rumoured for McLaren since 2008)
Gary Paffet (long-time McLaren test driver)
Kimi Räikkönen (rumoured if the Alonso-Ferrari deal comes to fruition, and Rosberg goes to Brawn)
Panasonic Toyota Racing
Toyota TF110 – Toyota RVX-10
9. Timo Glock (re-signed for 2009; on a multi-year deal with (yearly?) options; unclear if '10 option has been taken up)
10. Jarno Trulli (a new deal is unlikely, according to team bosses)
Kazuki Nakajima (allegedly has a long-term Toyota deal, but may not have the ultimate skill to make in in the big time)
Kamui Kobayashi (current test driver)
Kimi Räikkönen (rumoured, though unlikely)
AT&T Williams
Williams FW32 – Toyota RVX-10 (team asked to get out of 2010 contract) / Renault RS27 (preferred option for the team, dependent on Red Bull choice, and whether Kubica is taken up by Renault) / Mercedes FO108X (dependent on Red Bull choice) / Cosworth CA2010 (under review, too)
11. Robert Kubica (Williams said they’d like an experienced driver in ‘10)
Rubens Barrichello (Williams said they’d like an experienced driver in ‘10)
Adam Carroll (GP2 race winner and A1GP champion, has been approached by 2 teams for ‘10)
12. Nico Hülkenberg (test driver currently in GP2)
Kazuki Nakajima (current driver, likely dependent on Toyota power)
Renault F1 Team
Renault R30 – Renault R27
14. Fernando Alonso (signed a '09-'10 deal, but may have a get-out clause, should he join Ferrari)
Robert Kubica (once in Renault’s Driver Development Program; may jump ship from BMW)
15. Romain Grosjean (likely)
Lucas Di Grassi (long time Renault development and test driver)
Scuderia Toro Rosso
Toro Roso STR5 – Ferrari 056 (Ferrari contract allegedly runs until ‘10) / Renault R27 (if Red Bull-Mercedes comes to fruition)
16. Sébastien Buemi (hard to see him dropped after some solid drives)
17. Jaime Alguersuari, jr. (replaced Bourdais mid-season '09, likely to stay on)
Brendon Hartley (Red Bull junior driver and tester)
Neel Jani (finally he gets his chance, but 2 Swiss drivers at STR?)
Force India F1 Team (Aston Martin Racing; in Prodrive take-over)
Force India VJM03 (Aston Martin DBF1-10) – Mercedes FO108X
18. Adrian Sutil (another year; where would he go otherwise?)
19. Vitantonio Liuzzi (allegedly has '10-'11 deal)
Karun Chandhok (after another GP2 season, he gets the nod from Mallya; will test McLaren simulator)
Neel Jani (will test McLaren simulator)
Telefónica Campos Meta Team
Campos CM10 – Cosworth CA2010 (Dallara-designed and -built car)
20. Pedro de la Rosa (experienced test driver; excellent choice to develop the new car)
Roldán Rodríguez (Spanish GP2 driver)
Javier Villa (Spanish GP2 driver)
21. Vitaly Petrov (although Russian, he drove for Campos/Barwa in GP2 successfully, and brings sponsorship, too)
Giorgio Pantano (although Italian, he was GP2 champion for Campos in ‘08)
Adrián Vallés (Spanish WSR driver, drove for Campos in GP2 in ‘06)
Pastor Maldonado (talented Venezuelan, at least speaks Spanish)
Virgin Manor F1 Team (likely renamed Virgin F1 Team)
Manor BW01 (Virgin VF1-10) – Cosworth CA2010 (car designed and built by Nick Wirth, formerly of Simtek and Benetton)
22. Anthony Davidson (experienced ex-F1 driver)
Lucas Di Grassi (GP2 race winner, did F3 for Manor in 2005)
23. Adam Carroll (GP2 race winner and A1GP champion, has been approached by 2 teams for ‘10)
Mike Conway (GP2 race winner, currently in IndyCar)
Best Buy Team US F1
US F1-10 – Cosworth CA2010 (contracted) / Toyota RVX-10 (rumoured)
24. [color="blue"]Alex Wurz (although Austrian, experienced test driver; excellent choice to develop the new car)
Pedro de la Rosa (although Spanish, experienced test driver; excellent choice to develop the new car)
Franck Montagny (rumoured although French, has some experience)
25. Ryan Hunter-Reay (experienced driver)
Jonathan Summerton (oft-rumoured, but still young)
Marco Andretti (some people believe he has what it takes for F1)
Graham Rahal (rumoured)
1Malaysia Lotus F1 Team
Lotus 110 – Cosworth CA2010
26. Neel Jani (allegedly aligned with the Malaysian group)
27. Bruno Senna (wouldn't that be nice)
Alex Yoong (experienced and, well, Malaysian)
Sauber F1 Team (BMW-owned team did not sign 2010-2012 Concorde Agreement, but obtained '14th place'; talks on allowing 14 teams in 2010 ongoing)
Sauber C25 – Ferrari 056 (again with Petronas badge?)
28. Robert Kubica (contracted for '09; unlikely to stay on)
29. Nick Heidfeld (contracted for '09; may stay on)
Christian Klien (current test driver; could make for a typically sound Sauber line-up with Heidfeld)
Brawn Mercedes
1. Jenson Button
2. Rubens Barrichello
Red Bull Renault
3. Sebastian Vettel
4. Mark Webber
Ferrari
5. Kimi Raikkonen
6. Felipe Massa
McLaren Mercedes
7. Lewis Hamilton
8. Nico Rosberg
Toyota
9. Heikki Kovalainen
10. Timo Glock
Williams Mercedes
11. Robert Kubica
12. Nico Hulkenberg
Renault
14. Fernando Alonso
15. Romain Grosjean
Force India Mercedes
16. Adrian Sutil
17. Vitantonio Liuzzi
Toro Rosso Ferrari
18. Sebastien Buemi
19. Jaime Alguersuari
Campos Cosworth
20. Jarno Trulli
21. Pedro de la Rosa
USF1 Toyota
22. Sebastien Bourdais
23. Graham Rahal
Virgin Cosworth
24. Lucas di Grassi
25. Adam Carroll
Lotus Cosworth
26. Bruno Senna
27. Vitaly Petrov
Sauber Ferrari
28. Nick Heidfeld
29. Christian Klien
1. Jenson Button
2. Rubens Barrichello
Red Bull Renault
3. Sebastian Vettel
4. Mark Webber
Ferrari
5. Kimi Raikkonen
6. Felipe Massa
McLaren Mercedes
7. Lewis Hamilton
8. Nico Rosberg
Toyota
9. Heikki Kovalainen
10. Timo Glock
Williams Mercedes
11. Robert Kubica
12. Nico Hulkenberg
Renault
14. Fernando Alonso
15. Romain Grosjean
Force India Mercedes
16. Adrian Sutil
17. Vitantonio Liuzzi
Toro Rosso Ferrari
18. Sebastien Buemi
19. Jaime Alguersuari
Campos Cosworth
20. Jarno Trulli
21. Pedro de la Rosa
USF1 Toyota
22. Sebastien Bourdais
23. Graham Rahal
Virgin Cosworth
24. Lucas di Grassi
25. Adam Carroll
Lotus Cosworth
26. Bruno Senna
27. Vitaly Petrov
Sauber Ferrari
28. Nick Heidfeld
29. Christian Klien
QUOTE (CaptainJackSparrow @ Sep 15 2009, 08:26)
Apparent reason why Kubica isn't talking to Williams any more:
Williams wants the engines (if Mercedes-Benz engines are not available) but that deal was being blocked by Flavio Briatore, who was trying to manoeuvre Robert Kubica into a position where he would sign for Renault but telling Williams that they could not have the engines if they signed Kubica.
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21826.html
Williams wants the engines (if Mercedes-Benz engines are not available) but that deal was being blocked by Flavio Briatore, who was trying to manoeuvre Robert Kubica into a position where he would sign for Renault but telling Williams that they could not have the engines if they signed Kubica.
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21826.html
Briatore and his dirty games
QUOTE (lustigson @ Sep 15 2009, 12:33)
Emirates Brawn Mercedes
Brawn BGP 002 – Mercedes FO108X (currently; Mercedes rumourd in (partly) take-over) / Renault RS27 (should Red Bull and Mercedes get together)
1. Jenson Button (on a multi-year deal with options?)
Brawn BGP 002 – Mercedes FO108X (currently; Mercedes rumourd in (partly) take-over) / Renault RS27 (should Red Bull and Mercedes get together)
1. Jenson Button (on a multi-year deal with options?)
Then why are the papers reporting that Button wants his $5 million dollars back that he gave up last year before he signs for 2010?
QUOTE (Gilles4Ever @ Sep 15 2009, 13:00)
Then why are the papers reporting that Button wants his $5 million dollars back that he gave up last year before he signs for 2010?
I remember reading at the time that Button was kept on, took a salary cut, but did sign a multi-year deal with options, perhaps for every new season. However, regarding the pay rise that Button demands, I'm not too sure what the current situation is. Hence the question mark.
i reckon it's possible that a sauber entry could use rebadged bmw engines for 2010, like williams and benetton did with rebadged renault engines in 1999 after renault pulled out of f1 (mecachrome/supertec/playlife).
probably not badged as petronas, because i could see petronas sponsoring lotus.
probably not badged as petronas, because i could see petronas sponsoring lotus.
QUOTE (ac39 @ Sep 15 2009, 13:37)
i reckon it's possible that a sauber entry could use rebadged bmw engines for 2010, like williams and benetton did with rebadged renault engines in 1999 after renault pulled out of f1 (mecachrome/supertec/playlife).
probably not badged as petronas, because i could see petronas sponsoring lotus.
probably not badged as petronas, because i could see petronas sponsoring lotus.
IMHO that would be too expensive and also BMW said that they will pull out completely.
Customer engines are around 5 mio(?), IIRC.
Mayländer will be very busy next season.
up to 8 more cars with mostly (relatively) unexperienced but likely over-motivated drivers on the grid... guess they will produce quite some junk during the race, not just in the first corner. :>
up to 8 more cars with mostly (relatively) unexperienced but likely over-motivated drivers on the grid... guess they will produce quite some junk during the race, not just in the first corner. :>
QUOTE (lustigson @ Sep 15 2009, 21:12)
I remember reading at the time that Button was kept on, took a salary cut, but did sign a multi-year deal with options, perhaps for every new season. However, regarding the pay rise that Button demands, I'm not too sure what the current situation is. Hence the question mark.
I've only seen one paper reporting that: The Sun. 'Nuff said.
But even if Button were demandinf the five million back, Brawn's new sponsors for 2010 and the suggested Mercedes buy-in shouldn't make it too difficult to happen. It's not like he hasn't earned it.
So I'll go for it myself, a rather conservative guess. But in fact putting a definitive list together shows how many unknowns and huge doubts there still are!
Brawn Mercedes
1. Jenson Button
2. Rubens Barrichello
(until mid-season I though they'd get rid ooff Rubens, but now they can hardly)
Red Bull Renault
3. Sebastian Vettel
4. Mark Webber
(the postponement of the Mercedes deal for me shows that the deal is probably off)
Ferrari
5. Fernando Alonso
6. Felipe Massa
(this is the first time I believe the rumours that Alonso will go to Ferrari)
McLaren Mercedes
7. Lewis Hamilton
8. Kimi Raikkonen
(although I can't see them wanting two possible champions fighting each other once more...)
Toyota
9. Heikki Kovalainen
10. Timo Glock
(want to drivers that are willing to accept a low payment)
Williams Mercedes
11. Nico Rosberg
12. Nico Hulkenberg
(a lot of doubts here. I cannot see Rosberg going elsewhere, Brawn seems blocked and McLaren didn't want him then, so why now? But two Nicos is probably too much, still it might sweeten a Mercedes deal)
Renault
14. Robert Kubica
15. Romain Grosjean
(Renault seems to be very interested in Kubica in case Alonso parts ways)
Force India Mercedes
16. Adrian Sutil
17. Vitantonio Liuzzi
(unless they can get a top guy, why change anything)
Toro Rosso Ferrari
18. Sebastien Buemi
19. Jaime Alguersuari
(dito)
Campos Cosworth
20. Some spanish guy
21. Vitaly Petrov
USF1 Toyota
22. Sebastien Bourdais/Juan-Pablo Montoya/Jacques Villeneuve
23. Graham Rahal/Mario Andretti
(for the first seat they want a guy who has F1 experience and at the same time works for the American public, for the second one a young American - this was the hardest one to limit to 1 driver per seat)
Virgin Cosworth
24. Lucas di Grassi
25. Adam Carroll
(frankly I have no idea...)
Lotus Cosworth
26. Bruno Senna
27. Alex Yoong
(just a guess, but I cannot see Malaysia putting millions into this without demanding a Malaysian driver)
Sauber Ferrari
28. Nick Heidfeld
29. Christian Klien
Brawn Mercedes
1. Jenson Button
2. Rubens Barrichello
(until mid-season I though they'd get rid ooff Rubens, but now they can hardly)
Red Bull Renault
3. Sebastian Vettel
4. Mark Webber
(the postponement of the Mercedes deal for me shows that the deal is probably off)
Ferrari
5. Fernando Alonso
6. Felipe Massa
(this is the first time I believe the rumours that Alonso will go to Ferrari)
McLaren Mercedes
7. Lewis Hamilton
8. Kimi Raikkonen
(although I can't see them wanting two possible champions fighting each other once more...)
Toyota
9. Heikki Kovalainen
10. Timo Glock
(want to drivers that are willing to accept a low payment)
Williams Mercedes
11. Nico Rosberg
12. Nico Hulkenberg
(a lot of doubts here. I cannot see Rosberg going elsewhere, Brawn seems blocked and McLaren didn't want him then, so why now? But two Nicos is probably too much, still it might sweeten a Mercedes deal)
Renault
14. Robert Kubica
15. Romain Grosjean
(Renault seems to be very interested in Kubica in case Alonso parts ways)
Force India Mercedes
16. Adrian Sutil
17. Vitantonio Liuzzi
(unless they can get a top guy, why change anything)
Toro Rosso Ferrari
18. Sebastien Buemi
19. Jaime Alguersuari
(dito)
Campos Cosworth
20. Some spanish guy
21. Vitaly Petrov
USF1 Toyota
22. Sebastien Bourdais/Juan-Pablo Montoya/Jacques Villeneuve
23. Graham Rahal/Mario Andretti
(for the first seat they want a guy who has F1 experience and at the same time works for the American public, for the second one a young American - this was the hardest one to limit to 1 driver per seat)
Virgin Cosworth
24. Lucas di Grassi
25. Adam Carroll
(frankly I have no idea...)
Lotus Cosworth
26. Bruno Senna
27. Alex Yoong
(just a guess, but I cannot see Malaysia putting millions into this without demanding a Malaysian driver)
Sauber Ferrari
28. Nick Heidfeld
29. Christian Klien
Brawn - Button / Barichello
Red Bull - Vettel / Webber
Ferrari - Raikkonen / Massa
McLaren - Hamilton / Rosberg
Toyota - Glock / Nakajima (/Kobayashi / Sato)
Williams - Hulkenberg / Liuzzi?
Force India - Sutil / van der Garde
Toro Rosso - Buemi / Alguersuari
Campos - de la Rosa / Petrov
Manor - Trulli / di Grassi
USF1 - Summerton / Wurz
Lotus - Senna / Maldonado
"BMW" - Kubica / Hedifeld
"Renault" - Alonso / Grosjean
Red Bull - Vettel / Webber
Ferrari - Raikkonen / Massa
McLaren - Hamilton / Rosberg
Toyota - Glock / Nakajima (/Kobayashi / Sato)
Williams - Hulkenberg / Liuzzi?
Force India - Sutil / van der Garde
Toro Rosso - Buemi / Alguersuari
Campos - de la Rosa / Petrov
Manor - Trulli / di Grassi
USF1 - Summerton / Wurz
Lotus - Senna / Maldonado
"BMW" - Kubica / Hedifeld
"Renault" - Alonso / Grosjean
Brawn:
Button/Barrichello/Rosberg (had an approach)/Raikkonen (rumoured)
Red Bull:
Vettel
Webber
Ferrari:
Alonso (rumoured a lot)
Massa
Raikkonen (still with chances)
Schumacher (crazy, but business is powerful...)
McLaren:
Hamilton
Rosberg (rumoured)
Toyota:
Trulli
Glock
Williams:
Barrichello (if leaves Brawn)
Hulkenberg (had an approach)
Di Grassi/Grosjean (if Williams switches to Renault engines, a Renault driver is possible)
Sauber:
Heidfeld
Kubica/Klien
Renault?????
Alonso (and to Ferrari in 2011?)
Grosjean
Kubica (if Alonso leaves)
Force India:
Sutil
Liuzzi/a guy with money, like Petrov, or Chandhok (have you seen him side by side with Mallya in Monza?)
Toro Rosso:
Buemi/Alguersuari/Wickens (if keeps his pace in f2)/Aleshin (fast in f2 and extra money from Lukoil)
US:
Wurz/De La Rosa (rumoured)
López (the ACA seriously negotiating with Windsor, YPF and a cell phone company (Movistar??) behind, 85% of the budget would be completed, Windsor admited negotiations and had nice words about López in a F1 tv show from Fox Sports Latinamerica)
An American driver: probably someone like Marco Andretti would prefer to stay ina top Indy Car team rather that going to F1 to suffer; so Jonathan Summerton or Graham Rahal would have more chances...
Campos:
De La Rosa (the driver Adrián Campos wants)
Petrov/Pérez/Vallés/Di Grassi/Senna (Campos mentioned them)
Manor:
Davidson (the experienced driver linked to the team)
Carroll (Manor showed interest in him)/Guerrieri (a second meeting with John Booth will be held in October. Booth appreciates Guerrieri. The problem: money: 10 million dollars is the number they would be working on. I guess the same goes to Carroll)
Lotus:
No clue on this one, but I guess several of the young drivers mentioned above have chances...
Button/Barrichello/Rosberg (had an approach)/Raikkonen (rumoured)
Red Bull:
Vettel
Webber
Ferrari:
Alonso (rumoured a lot)
Massa
Raikkonen (still with chances)
Schumacher (crazy, but business is powerful...)
McLaren:
Hamilton
Rosberg (rumoured)
Toyota:
Trulli
Glock
Williams:
Barrichello (if leaves Brawn)
Hulkenberg (had an approach)
Di Grassi/Grosjean (if Williams switches to Renault engines, a Renault driver is possible)
Sauber:
Heidfeld
Kubica/Klien
Renault?????
Alonso (and to Ferrari in 2011?)
Grosjean
Kubica (if Alonso leaves)
Force India:
Sutil
Liuzzi/a guy with money, like Petrov, or Chandhok (have you seen him side by side with Mallya in Monza?)
Toro Rosso:
Buemi/Alguersuari/Wickens (if keeps his pace in f2)/Aleshin (fast in f2 and extra money from Lukoil)
US:
Wurz/De La Rosa (rumoured)
López (the ACA seriously negotiating with Windsor, YPF and a cell phone company (Movistar??) behind, 85% of the budget would be completed, Windsor admited negotiations and had nice words about López in a F1 tv show from Fox Sports Latinamerica)
An American driver: probably someone like Marco Andretti would prefer to stay ina top Indy Car team rather that going to F1 to suffer; so Jonathan Summerton or Graham Rahal would have more chances...
Campos:
De La Rosa (the driver Adrián Campos wants)
Petrov/Pérez/Vallés/Di Grassi/Senna (Campos mentioned them)
Manor:
Davidson (the experienced driver linked to the team)
Carroll (Manor showed interest in him)/Guerrieri (a second meeting with John Booth will be held in October. Booth appreciates Guerrieri. The problem: money: 10 million dollars is the number they would be working on. I guess the same goes to Carroll)
Lotus:
No clue on this one, but I guess several of the young drivers mentioned above have chances...
Brawn
Jenson Button
Rubens Barichello
Red Bull
Sebastian Vettel
Mark Webber
Ferrari
Kimi Raikkonen or Fernando Alonso
Felipe Massa
McLaren
Lewis Hamilton
Kimi Raikkonen or Nico Rosberg
Toyota
Timo Glock
Kaz Nakajima or Kamui Kobayashi
Williams
Nico Rosberg or somebody else
Nico Hulkenberg
Force India
Adrian Sutil
Vitantonio Liuzzi
Toro Rosso
Sebastien Buemi
Jaime Alguersuari
Campos
Pedro de la Rosa or Giorgio Pantano or Bruno Senna
Vitaly Petrov
Manor
Adam Carroll?
???
USF1
Jonathan Summerton, Sebastien Bourdais, Alexander Wurz, Graham Rahal, Carl Edwards, Kyle Busch
Lotus
???
???
BMW
Robert Kubica
Nick Hedifeld
Renault
Fernando Alonso or Kimi Raikkonen
Romain Grosjean
Jenson Button
Rubens Barichello
Red Bull
Sebastian Vettel
Mark Webber
Ferrari
Kimi Raikkonen or Fernando Alonso
Felipe Massa
McLaren
Lewis Hamilton
Kimi Raikkonen or Nico Rosberg
Toyota
Timo Glock
Kaz Nakajima or Kamui Kobayashi
Williams
Nico Rosberg or somebody else
Nico Hulkenberg
Force India
Adrian Sutil
Vitantonio Liuzzi
Toro Rosso
Sebastien Buemi
Jaime Alguersuari
Campos
Pedro de la Rosa or Giorgio Pantano or Bruno Senna
Vitaly Petrov
Manor
Adam Carroll?
???
USF1
Jonathan Summerton, Sebastien Bourdais, Alexander Wurz, Graham Rahal, Carl Edwards, Kyle Busch
Lotus
???
???
BMW
Robert Kubica
Nick Hedifeld
Renault
Fernando Alonso or Kimi Raikkonen
Romain Grosjean
QUOTE (stonebutter @ Sep 15 2009, 04:23)
While I certainly don't put button up there with the likes of Alonso, Hamilton, or Raikkonen - he made a pretty big gesture in cutting his salary even though he was legally entitled to all that cash. Pretty weak if he delivers a WDC (albeit in questionable style) and they don't give him anything for it.
I suppose it's his managers who want the money; the trouble is Brawn and everyone else can see that Brawn gave Jense the wdc (if it ends up that way) more than Jense gave it to Brawn. If Jense drives badly, all that happens is the other Brawn driver collects instead. Anyway there must be enough competition for that seat that a deal will be done, Jense would be insane to give it up.
From Lobato's blog.
Silly season.
QUOTE
El final está más cerca, el comienzo de una nueva era, también.
QUOTE
The end is near, the beginning of a new era, as well.
Silly season.
QUOTE (undersquare @ Sep 15 2009, 15:29)
I suppose it's his managers who want the money; the trouble is Brawn and everyone else can see that Brawn gave Jense the wdc (if it ends up that way) more than Jense gave it to Brawn. If Jense drives badly, all that happens is the other Brawn driver collects instead. Anyway there must be enough competition for that seat that a deal will be done, Jense would be insane to give it up.
Riiiiight, I suppose it has nothing to do with him amassing the most points (at the moment).
QUOTE (ForeverF1 @ Sep 15 2009, 17:12)
Riiiiight, I suppose it has nothing to do with him amassing the most points (at the moment).
Well Jense's team is saying "he deserves more money because he's heading for the wdc". Brawn presumably are thinking "if Jense weren't heading for the wdc, Rubens would be. So why pay more? And will Jense really leave if we just say no?"
Plus obviously the possibility of Nico/Kubi/Kimi, they need a seat free anyway so as Rubens is driving so well, if Jense is going to be difficult...
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