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evo.x
QUOTE (brabham bt50 @ Jun 12 2009, 10:58) *
This week's Autosport magazine says BMW are trying to sign Rosberg as Heidfeld's replacement for 2010. The article says Nick Heidfeld could stay, but only if Robert Kubica goes elsewhere for 2010.


and just out of curiosity: where could RK go to?
brabham bt50
F1 crisis hurts 2010 silly season......

Auto, Motor und Sport
Mark Webbers Vertrag läuft Ende der Saison aus. Der Australier gibt zu: "Im Moment brauchst du mit niemandem zu reden. Keiner weiß, wo und wie er nächstes Jahr fährt."

Mark Webber's contract ends this season. He says: "At the moment you cannot talk with anyone. Nobody knows where and how he will race next season."




metz
QUOTE (evo.x @ Jun 12 2009, 12:02) *
and just out of curiosity: where could RK go to?

McLaren.
Ron doesn't hire German drivers. Never has, never will.
That eliminates 5 prospects.
Robert would fit the bill.
Or is there another Finn arround that they haven't tried? wink.gif
kismet
All the big teams are always trying to sign Rosberg. In the last two years alone, he's been about to move to Ferrari, McLaren and now apparently BMW. Because I'm an ass, I'll have a bit of a chuckle if he's still at Williams next year...
Josta
QUOTE (metz @ Jun 12 2009, 18:57) *
McLaren.
Ron doesn't hire German drivers. Never has, never will.


He tried and failed to hire Schumacher.
potmotr
I reckon Rosberg's manager is just trying to generate a bit of hype...
metz
QUOTE (Josta @ Jun 12 2009, 14:07) *
He tried and failed to hire Schumacher.

Not true. All BS from McLaren PR machine.
Schumacher; "Yes we chatted but nothing serious. There was never an offer."
Josta
QUOTE (metz @ Jun 12 2009, 20:39) *
Not true. All BS from McLaren PR machine.
Schumacher; "Yes we chatted but nothing serious. There was never an offer."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYI6PFNDFrg

There was never a firm offer because MS told him in no uncertain terms he wasn't interested.

Madras
So Heidfeld is being sent out to pasture. Poor bloke will never win a race.
Direct Drive
QUOTE (brabham bt50 @ May 27 2009, 21:18) *
"Um die unterschiedlichen Meinungen innerhalb der FIA wieder unter einen Hut zu bringen, wurde am Renntag von Monte Carlo eine weitere Sitzung anberaumt. Darin schworen sich die FOTA-Teams Einigkeit, die aber schon einen Tag später dadurch gebrochen wurde, dass Williams seine Nennung für 2010 abgab - trotz der Drohung der in der FOTA vertretenen Hersteller, für Streikbrecher keine Motoren zu liefern."


Its all real clear now!
evo.x
QUOTE (metz @ Jun 12 2009, 12:57) *
McLaren.


what for? to trade a bad car for worse? and a #1 status at BMW for #2 (after "reigning WDC" Hamilton)? I may be stupid, but somehow I don't see this.
Yet again - McLaren will be back soon... I might be terribly wrong...
tkulla
QUOTE (brabham bt50 @ Jun 12 2009, 15:58) *
This week's Autosport magazine says BMW are trying to sign Rosberg as Heidfeld's replacement for 2010. The article says Nick Heidfeld could stay, but only if Robert Kubica goes elsewhere for 2010.


I wouldn't mind seeing Robert head off to take on Lewis and see Rosberg face Heidfeld. I think Kubica and Hamilton are similar in a lot of ways, so it might be a good pairing for McLaren if they can keep the peace. And I need to see more of Rosberg before I'm a believer. Nick Heidfeld is a very good F1 driver, so if Nico can get the better of him I'd be impressed. If I had to bet, however, I'd put my money on Quick Nick, especially with the elimination of refueling next year.

That said, I don't believe it would be a particularly good move for Nico. I don't know what would make him believe that BMW will be better than Williams next year. Williams has an "advantage" of sorts in that they've been operating on a smaller budget for a few years now, so a budget cap (or equivalent) won't have as much of a negative effect there as it will at BMW.
Turbo4
A Williams 2010 seat is a prize if we're operating under budget cap in my opinion.

Rosberg should extend on a one year deal.
brabham bt50
QUOTE (metz @ Jun 12 2009, 19:57) *
McLaren.
Ron doesn't hire German drivers. Never has, never will.
That eliminates 5 prospects.
Robert would fit the bill.
Or is there another Finn arround that they haven't tried?wink.gif


Hi Metz, can you explain why Ron doesn't hire German drivers as you stated,
or is just an idea you have ?
Galko877
QUOTE (brabham bt50 @ Jun 16 2009, 17:28) *
Hi Metz, can you explain why Ron doesn't hire German drivers as you stated,
or is just an idea you have ?



There is this myth because he took Kimi over Heidfeld in 2002. Ever since some people believe that's because he has something against Germans. rolleyes.gif (Is he a nationalist? A German hater or what?)
Jedi_F1
Well the latest rumour is that Marc Gene is close to a deal with Campos,
I've no problem with Marc Géne,
he has already competed in 36 GP's and has a 5th place as his best result.

But Campos is heading with there wanted drivers to be spaniards...
after USF1 another team that only hires drivers from their own country??? please no... ambivalent.gif
postajegenye
I agree. I really like Marc Gene and I think he's a very good racing driver despite his unsuccessful stint in F1.

But:
- he will be 36 years old next year
- his last full-time F1 season was 2000, since then he drove a couple of races for Wiliams, the last in 2004
- officially he's a test driver for Ferrari, but he drives the car on so few occasions that it doesn't really count
- as much as I like him, he was not so good in F1 that he should be given a seat several years later...
4MEN
QUOTE (Jedi_F1 @ Jun 16 2009, 16:55) *
Well the latest rumour is that Marc Gene is close to a deal with Campos,
I've no problem with Marc Géne,
he has already competed in 36 GP's and has a 5th place as his best result.

But Campos is heading with there wanted drivers to be spaniards...
after USF1 another team that only hires drivers from their own country??? please no... ambivalent.gif


He just won Le Mans! drunk.gif
noikeee
Along with Wurz and Brabham. You want them in F1 too?
Turbo4
I think Gene is an excellent choice for Campos if they're insistent on local drivers. As with USF1, I can understand this from a marketing pov as it will help secure local sponsors at least in the short term.

So what if Gene is 36? Is he a pensioner? The 'ageist' culture these days annoys me, a good F1 driver could easily hold his own until his early 40's even in the modern era, the world has just become so obsessed with youth that the teams are always looking to find the Next Big Thing even if it means offloading an older driver before his use-by date.
lustigson
Interesting to note that all three Le Mans winners are in a way linked to new F1 teams: Marc Gené allegedly considered by Campos, Alex Wurz still a potential team boss with Superfund, and David Brabham's last name might yet return to the grid albeit on an other team's car.
Jedi_F1
QUOTE (Turbo4 @ Jun 16 2009, 19:41) *
As with USF1, I can understand this from a marketing pov as it will help secure local sponsors at least in the short term.

So what if Gene is 36? Is he a pensioner? The 'ageist' culture these days annoys me, a good F1 driver could easily hold his own until his early 40's even in the modern era, the world has just become so obsessed with youth that the teams are always looking to find the Next Big Thing even if it means offloading an older driver before his use-by date.



I agree with you on the marketing side of things,
but I'm not in favour of an F1 (if there will be one like we know it today) with over nationalistic country teams,
ofcourse there are very talented american and other spaniard drivers that deserve a F1 seat,
and yes ... this is a bit how F1 started before and in the 50's (italians drove for italian teams...).
but what if the next big thing is a belgian (sorry now I'm nationalistic), a norwegian, or a bulgarian??? the chances they land in F1 become very small,
if teams are too nationalistic.

And Gene is 35 untill march the 29th, I also agree with you that in modern F1,
the driver can go on in his early 40's ..
remember Nigel Mansell became world champion when he was 38.
Turbo4
Mate, i'm Australian, this 'yank driver for yank team' thing doesn't make me pleased either I assure you haha! Particularly when (imo) guys like Will Power and Ryan Briscoe could do a better job in F1 than whomever numpty the Americans slot into USF1. But I digress....

It wont last for long, reality will take over, and if a nominated driver doesnt fire pretty quickly hiring a driver based on his nationality will go the way of the dodo.
Josta
QUOTE (lustigson @ Jun 16 2009, 19:46) *
Interesting to note that all three Le Mans winners are in a way linked to new F1 teams: Marc Gené allegedly considered by Campos, Alex Wurz still a potential team boss with Superfund, and David Brabham's last name might yet return to the grid albeit on an other team's car.


lol.gif

Whilst it is true that a driver can compete later than many in F1 think, in 2010, Brabham will be 45. The only drivers of note that competed at or above this age are Fangio, Hill, and Brabham. All did so at the twilight of their careers, and all in an age where physical fitness didn't matter. Look at Mansell aged 42. He gave up after a couple of races.

I did have to LOL when the Le Mans commentator hinted at a place for Brabham in F1. The only way David Brabham will be in F1 next year, is if it is full of nobody teams, desperately looking for a name to add something to the soon to be defunct F1 championship.

Actually, there are better than even chances of him being involved, come to think about it.
lustigson
QUOTE (Josta @ Jun 16 2009, 22:43) *
lol.gif

Whilst it is true that a driver can compete later than many in F1 think, in 2010, Brabham will be 45. The only drivers of note that competed at or above this age are Fangio, Hill, and Brabham. All did so at the twilight of their careers, and all in an age where physical fitness didn't matter. Look at Mansell aged 42. He gave up after a couple of races.

I did have to LOL when the Le Mans commentator hinted at a place for Brabham in F1. The only way David Brabham will be in F1 next year, is if it is full of nobody teams, desperately looking for a name to add something to the soon to be defunct F1 championship.

Actually, there are better than even chances of him being involved, come to think about it.

Thanks for you reply, but I didn't imply that David Brabham could be on the 2010 grid - afterall, his last race was Oz 1994 - but merely his last name on the Formtech-owned cars run from the former Super Aguri factory. That is, should the whole FIA-FOTA thing go keblam, and the FIA allow more new teams on the 2010 entry list.
Josta
QUOTE (lustigson @ Jun 16 2009, 22:02) *
Thanks for you reply, but I didn't imply that David Brabham could be on the 2010 grid - afterall, his last race was Oz 1994 - but merely his last name on the Formtech-owned cars run from the former Super Aguri factory. That is, should the whole FIA-FOTA thing go keblam, and the FIA allow more new teams on the 2010 entry list.


Ohhhh. Sorry, just jumping to conclusions based on an annoying commentator in the LM24. blush.gif

With regards to the name, it could be in Formula soon to be dead, but I am sure David wouldn't see that as a result, given the fact his family is suing them for trying it.
kNt

QUOTE (Madras @ Jun 12 2009, 22:22) *
So Heidfeld is being sent out to pasture. Poor bloke will never win a race.

I wouldn't be so sure about the 'Pasture', if he would have been sacked last year, who knows, he might have gotten a seat in the crappy Honda for this year ;).

With a split looking more likely it's quite unlikely that a driver has to retire after this season. Even if not there are supposed to be 6 more seats to fill.
Madras
QUOTE (kNt @ Jun 16 2009, 22:26) *
I wouldn't be so sure about the 'Pasture', if he would have been sacked last year, who knows, he might have gotten a seat in the crappy Honda for this year ;).

With a split looking more likely it's quite unlikely that a driver has to retire after this season. Even if not there are supposed to be 6 more seats to fill.


There's unlikely to be a "Brawn" next year.
kNt
It's always unlikely, it was even this year ;). With a split - why not, Force India and Williams are decent, but hardly untouchable. Or imagine the FI now all of a sudden a decent prospect which leads them to drop Fisichella...
Turbo4
Fisichella will agree to drive the Safety Car rather than leave F1.
metz
QUOTE (brabham bt50 @ Jun 16 2009, 11:28) *
Hi Metz, can you explain why Ron doesn't hire German drivers as you stated,
or is just an idea you have ?

Let me say that this is not my original idea.
This topic has been discussed to death by the German media since Schumacher (well connected to Mercedes) arrived on the F1 scene.
Some very respected motorsport publications simply point to the facts.
One even listed up to 12 competent German drivers that McLaren could have engaged during the last 20 years, but didn't.
The reasons for this are pure speculation. Nobody believes or supports the notion that RD hates Germans.
HHF has often said that the only team he ever wanted to drive for was Mercedes, but he never got the chance.
Willy Weber (MSs manager) claims that he approached McLaren before he went to Beneton. Ralf claimed to have had discussions.
Heidfeld, after testing with the tem was actually promised a seat. At Sauber, Nick actually beat KR while both were new to the team.
Ron gave the drive to Kimi, Finn for Finn, claiming that he still had an option on Heidfeld the following year. He didn't excersise this either.
What frustrates the German media is that MOST German fans consider McLaren (always ref to as Mercedes) as their national team.
Williams on the other hand is considered a good British team and has no hangups with hireing German drivers.
My personal opinion is that Ron wants to make a point to the boys in Stuttgart as to who is in charge and who is running the team.
It will be interesting to see if Ron's departure from the team management will result in Vettel or Rosberg getting a seat.
metz
QUOTE (Galko877 @ Jun 16 2009, 11:33) *
There is this myth because he took Kimi over Heidfeld in 2002. Ever since some people believe that's because he has something against Germans. rolleyes.gif (Is he a nationalist? A German hater or what?)

This is not true at all...
Just that many German fans/media believe that the non-german driver statistic is more than coincidence.
Many also believe that any one of the 5 current German F1 drivers would have been a better choice than Kovi.
Galko877
QUOTE (metz @ Jun 17 2009, 16:56) *
This is not true at all...
Just that many German fans/media believe that the non-german driver statistic is more than coincidence.
Many also believe that any one of the 5 current German F1 drivers would have been a better choice than Kovi.



He was ready to sign Michael Schumacher. It didn't happen at the end but I don't think the reason was Michael's nationality.
r4mses
QUOTE (Galko877 @ Jun 17 2009, 17:21) *
He was ready to sign Michael Schumacher. It didn't happen at the end but I don't think the reason was Michael's nationality.


afaik, the reson was that Ron/McLaren did not tolerate personal sponsors at that time - smth Micheal (or Weber..?) insisted on. I remember Haug told the story in some interview. Until 2007 or 2008 no McLaren driver had personal sponsors, when they dropped that 'law'.
metz
QUOTE (Galko877 @ Jun 17 2009, 11:21) *
He was ready to sign Michael Schumacher. It didn't happen at the end but I don't think the reason was Michael's nationality.

We only have Ron's quote for this.
Schumacher himself shrugged this off.
He said there were casual discussions but no negotiations.
No offer was ever made.
metz
QUOTE (r4mses @ Jun 17 2009, 11:41) *
afaik, the reson was that Ron/McLaren did not tolerate personal sponsors at that time - smth Micheal (or Weber..?) insisted on. I remember Haug told the story in some interview. Until 2007 or 2008 no McLaren driver had personal sponsors, when they dropped that 'law'.

JPM had personal sponsors.
and I'm not sure about Hakkinen/Finlandia earlier.
Galko877
QUOTE (metz @ Jun 17 2009, 17:50) *
We only have Ron's quote for this.
Schumacher himself shrugged this off.
He said there were casual discussions but no negotiations.
No offer was ever made.


QUOTE
Schu couldn't work with Dennis
Friday, 24, November, 2006, 15:53


Michael Schumacher has revealed that he never drove for McLaren Mercedes in Formula 1 because he had “different ideas” about how a team should operate compared with its boss Ron Dennis.

The German spent all but the first grand prix of his 248-race career driving for Benetton and Ferrari – despite being supported by and racing for Mercedes on his way through the motorsport ranks.

However although the retired legend admits he did have talks about a possible move to the team prior to his switch to Ferrari in 1996, he says the McLaren factor ensured a much-expected move to reunite with the German carmaker never materialised.

“There were several conversations and meetings with McLaren-Mercedes, for example 1995 in Monte Carlo,” he said in an interview with German newspaper Suddeutsche Zeitung’s magazine.

“But I noticed that we didn’t really fit together.

“I didn’t fit to McLaren or to be honest to McLaren boss Ron Dennis.

“It seemed to work out with Mercedes I am sure we would have found a way.

“Ron Dennis and I had different ideas how a Formula 1 team should work.”

However the German insists the reason the move didn’t happen was not because he demanded exclusive number one status at the team.

Despite dominating all of his team-mates throughout his 16 seasons in the sport, Schumacher says he never asked for a preferential status at any point in his career - insisting his superior pace was the reason for the support he received.

“I never demanded it, neither contractually nor verbally not during my whole career,” he said.

“This is how I see it: At the beginning of the season both drivers get the same material, are equal in every way.

“It soon emerges thought that one driver is quicker than the other and the team has to support him.

“Not in every situation [is quicker], sometimes chance also plays a role in this – but if the second driver only wants to win a grand prix because of his ego, while the first one is trying to win a world championship, I would regard that as silly.

“Because the goal always has to be to be first at the end of the season.

“Formula 1 is no children’s birthday party.”


ITV-F1.com

QUOTE
Ron Dennis opens up about Schu talks
Monday, 23, April, 2007, 13:00


McLaren boss Ron Dennis has revealed just how close he came to luring Michael Schumacher away from Ferrari at the end of the 1990s.

Schumacher was repeatedly linked with McLaren before his run of championships with Ferrari began, and in an interview published in this month's F1 Racing magazine (on sale tomorrow), Dennis has admitted that only 'peripheral financial issues' prevented a deal going ahead.

"He and I met in Monte Carlo quite a few years ago, specifically to discuss the possibility of his joining the team," said Dennis.

"That meeting followed an informal chat we’d had at the Log Cabin (at Suzuka).

"I can’t remember, off the top of my head, but I’d say (it was in) 1998, 1999 or 2000."

Dennis said that Schumacher would have been happy to work with McLaren - and with the salary it offered.

"Clearly, neither his ability as a driver, nor our quality as a team, was an issue," he said.

"The size of his retainer wasn’t an issue, either.

"The issue was more what I’d call peripheral financial issues."

When asked if this related to personal sponsorship deals such as logos on caps, which Ferrari allowed Schumacher to sell himself, Dennis replied: "Yes, things like that."

He insisted that he did not regret failing to do a deal with the man who went on to win five consecutive titles for Ferrari in 2000-2004.

"I guess perhaps some things just aren’t meant to be," Dennis said.

"There are lots of things in life that you can look back on - if you’re minded to - and say, ‘If only...’, but I don’t like to do that because I don’t think it’s a particularly productive way of thinking."


Plus this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYI6PFNDFrg

If Ron never wanted to sign him and that was because of his nationality, then why were "several conversations and meetings"?



metz
QUOTE (Galko877 @ Jun 17 2009, 12:00) *
ITV-F1.com

If Ron never wanted to sign him and that was because of his nationality, then why were "several conversations and meetings"?

I never said this. I explained that I thought it had more to do with Mercedes than with the driver himself.
I'm sure that several conversations took place due to Mecedes insistence.
I tend to believe Michaels version.
As you quoted;
“I didn’t fit to McLaren or to be honest to McLaren boss Ron Dennis.
“It seemed to work out with Mercedes I am sure we would have found a way.
“Ron Dennis and I had different ideas how a Formula 1 team should work.”

Obviously Ron was the problem.
I don't know if Ron was the problem for all the other German candidates.
lustigson
I've updated my list of June 4th:

  • AT&T Williams: Toyota engine contract in place
  • Force India F1 Team: has a deal with McLaren and Mercedes
  • Campos Grand Prix: technical partnership with Dallara, Cosworth engines
  • Manor F1 Team: car designed by Nick Wirth, Cosworth engines confirmed
  • Team US F1: Cosworth engines confirmed
  • Prodrive: allegedly with Aston Martin-badged customer Mercedes engines
  • Epsilon Euskadi: team of Joan Villadelprat and Sergio Rinland; likely with Cosworth engines
  • Team Lotus (Litespeed): car designed by Mike Gascoyne
  • Brabham: backed by Franz Hilmer of Formtech, and possibly Colin Kolles; acquired the former Super Aguri base; no engine partner announced, but likely Cosworth
  • Team Superfund: with Alex Wurz; Cosworth engines confirmed
  • N.Technology (withdrawn)
  • March Racing Organisation (denied by FIA)


Should all come to fruition, that adds up to 22 cars. If March and N.Technology are one and the same, that's a total of 20 cars. There could also be other teams still, since the FIA announced they received applications from as many as 15 potential new teams.
Rob
QUOTE (lustigson @ Jun 19 2009, 09:45) *
Should all come to fruition, that adds up to 24 cars. If March and N.Technology are one and the same, that's a total of 22 cars. There could also be other teams still, since the FIA announced they received applications from as many as 15 potential new teams.


Yesterday's Autosport says that three entries received were denied straight away. March is one of them and the other two were myf1dream.com and Sky Sports Italia. So March will not be on the grid in any scenario.
lustigson
QUOTE (Rob @ Jun 19 2009, 10:50) *
Yesterday's Autosport says that three entries received were denied straight away. March is one of them and the other two were myf1dream.com and Sky Sports Italia. So March will not be on the grid in any scenario.

Thanks for that. I edited my post.
lustigson
N.Technology withdraws F1 application
Turbo4
ahh.... sounds like Williams and Force India will be asked to field about 4 cars each! roflmao.gif
CaptnMark
QUOTE (Turbo4 @ Jun 19 2009, 11:37) *
ahh.... sounds like Williams and Force India will be asked to field about 4 cars each! roflmao.gif


It would actually be brilliant racing if there was a field of Williams cars for a F1 WDC.

FOTA can keep their WCC if anybody cares.
lustigson
QUOTE (CaptnMark @ Jun 19 2009, 18:31) *
It would actually be brilliant racing if there was a field of Williams cars...

We've Formula Two for that.
brabham bt50
So, back to core business after the announcements of today and the final F1 2010 entry list.

Which engines will RBR, STR and Brawn GP use in 2010, does anyone have any information on that subject ?

What about BMW, would they not prefer to have another team using their engine in F1 ?
Josta
QUOTE (brabham bt50 @ Jun 24 2009, 18:16) *
What about BMW, would they not prefer to have another team using their engine in F1 ?


Who would want it?
Turbo4
I think Red Bull Racing will use a Mercedes, and Toro Rosso the Renault.

I think they want to get away from second-string Ferraris.
lustigson
QUOTE (Turbo4 @ Jun 24 2009, 19:40) *
I think Red Bull Racing will use a Mercedes, and Toro Rosso the Renault.

I think they want to get away from second-string Ferraris.

That 2nd-string Ferrari did win the Italian GP last year.
Dulok
I would think that with the success Brawn has had with the Mercedes that they would want to stay with them if they can.
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