I really don't think we will see Kimi and Alonso in the same team. If you sign Alonso, you're prepare to have a clear driver hierarchy from day one. Ferrari might actually prefer Massa not being up to speed at the start of the season. Now with Massa out of action, you can't really judge Kimi's performance for the rest of the season, Badoer is not credible benchmark.

Robertson is a hell of negotiator, but I think it's also party because LdM wanted to give Kimi some more time to prove he's the right choice to replace Schumacher.

I'd go a bit further and take Nick over 3/4 of 2010 contracted drivers. He is severely under-rated in my book.



Massa will recover just fine. The big question is will he be fit to race F1 again (if so, when?) - this is the large cloud hanging over him and Ferrari.

Ferrari : Massa , Alonso
McLaren : Glock , Hamilton
Renault : Kubica , Grosjean
Brawn : Button , Rosberg
RedBull : Vettel , Webber
STR : Alguersuari , Buemi
Toyota : Raikkonen , Trulli
force India : Kovalainen , Liuzzi
Sauber | PK GP : Piquet , Heidfeld
USGPE : Villeneuve , US Racer
Manor : Davidson , Carroll
Campos : Villa , Sutil
Williams : Nakajima , Hulkenberg

I've just realised something quite strange. Ferrari have in theory (if reports are to be believed) 4 drivers for 2010 (fitness being an issue for 2 of them). Between the 4 of them they have 10WDC's. Only one of them doesn't have a WDC. Oddly (if he is fit), the only one without the WDC is the only one that has a guaranteed available seat for 2010.

I have included Schumacher on that list as he is (according to reports) still training to get back into F1, and as Weber has so far been the only one correct about Schumi, I'd be inclined to believe him

Isn't that odd?

Mmm well Monty has come over all soppy about Badoer 'deserving' a race, if we believe him; still this is F1 - is 'cruel' in the vocabulary even? I could imagine Felipe being paid to retire supposedly for injury reasons and us being none the wiser. Or they could appease the Hispanic/South American fans by getting Senna into a team somewhere perhaps. Or just not care, how deep is Massa's support really, anyway? Compared to support for Ferrari.

It'll be interesting to see as you say.

rosberg will not go to Brawn -where did u get that from????????????

The hugely popular Brazilian 'everyday' superstar in Massa is a -1 point WDC less, while Kimi is a +1 point WDC. It hardly makes a lot of difference between the two, and it's clear Massa is very very popular, people like that he wasn't always so quick, used to spin a fair bit, yet is showing Kimi how it's done without the 'weight' of "5 times world kart champion ;) , f renault champ (?), f3 champ, gp2 champ, never slower than an F1 team-mate, f1 world champion" that less likeable chaps like Hamilton cart around.

It's called 'speculation'.

Well Williams have ten sponsors totalling say $70m, while Brawn have zero sponsors apart from very minor ones. A racing contract would seem more 'solvent' at the former I suppose!

Well if Massa genuinely has to retire to protect higher risks remaining from the injury , then it is not out of the question that they could unveil their new signing, little known Brazilian formula vee driver Kubinho, a can of spray-tan to keep F430 sales in Brazil can ticking over...

Ferrari's situation is really interesting.

Either they disappoint Alonso, fire Raikkonen or fire Massa.

One of those things has to happen before the end of the year.

Hopefully it is well handled.

Why?

Just because the Sun says it and James Allen says it, does not make it a fact!

I dont think we'll even know after Monza (unless Alonso suddenly turns up in the Ferrari garage).

Due to the Massa situation I cant see how they can name their 2010 lineup at Monza. However, the only thing we can do is watch out for the other teams moves. If Renault state Kubica is to race for them next season (which has also being speculated), then Ferrari don't need to bother. Alonso said he never wanted Kubica as a teammate as they are close friends.

So I'll backtrack in a way because this is one of the key movements of the season. So maybe it has to be announced sooner rather than later.

Oh I dont know.

No, because of the basic maths.

Ferrari has two seats.

Ferrari currently appears to have three drivers contracted for one next year.

One must go.

Simples.

Appears is the operative word.

We dont know it for a fact.

We don't know what for a fact?

There's some speculation here in Brazil that Massa will be back for Monza.

That ferrari has 3 drivers contracted for next year.Its all just speculation and i myself believe Alonso will be there in 2011 and kimi will go to Rally after 2010.

Oh sure, we don't know that.

But this is Silly Season thread so seems the right place for this kind of speculation, don't you reckon?

Sure,but some people are stating these as facts and thats bugging me.I really would like to know already what Ferrari is gonna do with their drivers.

Oh, same.

Logically, we know the following:

Raikkonen we know has a contract for next year.

Massa has a contract for next year.

No the unknown:

Alonso's contractual situation for 2010. Has been unknown since the Ferrari rumour started appearing last year.

So...

If Alonso doesn't have a contract we'll have Massa and Raikkonen back next year.

If Alonso does have a contract either Massa's or Raikkonen will see their contract torn up.

Who started Alonso rumor,because i cant remember? I will be happy what ever direction this goes.Alonso to Ferrari Kimi to WRC or Kimi stays and he will be in WRC 2011.From a marketing point of view Kimi and Alonso is the best bet,because they have bigger fanbase than Massa and i would love to see them dug it out.

I always assumed it started in Spain, because they're closest to Alonso.

It doesn't make sense for Ferrari to sign Alonso for 2010 when both of their current drivers have contract until 2010. I think it's some flexible pre contract, now Ferrari want to have Alonso on board earlier.

There's Santander too.

I think it was started in Italy and boosted out of proportion by some medias from Spain.

Facts that we have regarding Ferrari, its current drivers and Alonso

- Massa has a contract up until the end of the 2010 season
- Raikkonen has a contract up until the end of the 2010 season
- Alonso has a contract with Renault up until the end of the 2009 season
- Mclaren has a contract with Santander that runs out at the of the 2009 with an option for 2010 and 2011
- Raikkonen has been doing too many rallies for someone that has a contract with a top F1 team
- The Alonso rumors have been there for more than a year

So what can we conclude?

In this economy I simply can't see Ferrari, nor any team, paying a driver $25M to go away a year early. I believe Kimi will be back at Ferrari, as will Massa, and maybe Alonso move to some place yet to be considered.

That Ferrari has a problem.

Btw isn't Alonso actually contracted to Renault until 2010? I seem to recall it was announced a couple months ago. Doesn't mean there couldn't be performance clauses to let him go, and looking at Renault's form...

Hmmm, those two aren't facts my friend!

That you want Kimi out of F1.

A driver who can go anywhere wants:

1/ a seat where he's number one
2/ a seat that is nearly certain of title-contention competitiveness
3/ more money than he can spend
4/ to be number one at Ferrari for a time
5/ to be treated with a lot of respect, unquestioning deference and appreciation that he has joined the team or, as Ferrari refer to themselves, the "family".

Letting a superstar who could have made the difference slip through your fingers must be a constant worry for someone like Montezemolo. This is why decision-makers like him prefer to err on the side of caution and sign or pre-sign or agree a letter of intent with the driver they seek a year and a half before it takes effect. There's nothing positive that can come from revealing this sooner than necessary so we get evasion and denial. But the foot massage has begun. And we know where that ends. Consummation. And Santander is Barry White playing in the background in this metaphor. Once their switch to Ferrari was announced it was clear that they would provide Raikkonen's payoff. But it gets better. Because if Massa, may he recover to become champion, were not to return to his expected performance level before the completion of Kimi's contract in 2010 then no payoff would be necessary or desired. Kimi's stated intention to drive in 2010 would be fulfilled until such time as Massa was ready. Then Kimi gets paid the balance owing by Santander, Massa's back and everybody wins. Maybe even Santander shareholders if Alonso's winning.

Again, apologies if this has already been said:
Autosport (print) saying Renault the favourite to land Kubica. And that Rosberg may be off to McLaren. They also said there were rumours that Kimi has been offered half his yearly salary to leave the team after this season... (in order to make way for Alonso) who they want in the car next year.

I think Kimi will hang out for the full whack.

If he's under contract they'll have to pay him out.

Look at the Bourdais precident...

I think it is not very respectable that there seems to be a sort-of community campaign to get Kimi out of Ferrari and even to get him out of F1.

I do not understand what he has done to deserve that kind of treatment. Hence, I figure it is not about what Kimi has done, but it is about who some people would like to see racing for Ferrari.

I saw it first hit Felipe Massa in 2007, then again in 2008, and then in 2008 it switched to Kimi Räikkönen as he had a few bad races in the middle of the season. Now it seems to be stuck on Kimi. I wish it wouldn't happen at all to any driver.

It is a very dishonourable way to support your favourite by slinging mud, cheap shots and personal attacks against any driver.

Slinging mud? Cheap shots? Personal attacks?

Here?

You must be mistaken...

It very much make sence. The thing that is really really really bothering Ferrari is the fact that they are not number 1 in F1 anymore. They think - and I agree with them - that Alonso has the solution to all this. Together with him they want to re-group their efforts and they absolutely believe they will succeed and dominate F1 again, maybe as it was when Schumacher was "leading" the team. They don't see Massa in this driver leading role, and definitely not Raikkonen. In my view, simple as that.

//Per

So WDC and 2 WCC`s dont mean shit? Remember that in 2005 and 2006 they didnt win with MS,but when Kimi came they were champions again. But that was undeserved right?

I dont think so, teams have rights too. Its not like you sign someone who, after contracts are signed, can sit back with his boots on the table eat some pasta / relax a bit / party and drink and do those xx races a year and get mucho $$ a month. If Ferrari wants Kimi out for 2010 they sure have some good lawyers who do a little


I do think Ferrari has some 'rules' along the contract where Kimi must deliver in some way.

I honestly think Kimi isnt in F1 for 2010, he is been focusing to much on rally lately and he isnt enjoying F1 anymore, atleast his bodylanguage is like a walking 'turd' ... Dont get me wrong, i really enjoyed Kimi back in his McLaren years, that fighting spirit all over his face ... But the last few years his attitude is something like, i earned a lot and i really give a poop where / what / and if i drive. And again, thats how i see him at this moment, you dont have to convince me that Kimi 'is all motivated', or 'its his icy-attitude'.

To be honest mate, anyone would have been WDC in that Ferrari ... From Sutil to Sato, no disrespect towards Kimi, but anyone would have been WDC in that car, it was Kimi's raw speed who brought the WDC, nothing more nothing less.

Are you really saying that Sato would have beaten Hamilton and Alonso who had equal cars to Ferrari in a WDC fight? All i can say is

It was a contradiction, just to give a contrast to the thing your were saying is that when Kimi came to Ferrari, Kimi managed to bring home a WDC where Schumacher couldnt, you really believe that? Schumacher not able to bring a WDC / WCC and Kimi could in the same team setup? ... Common, that would be a little naïve from my pov.

Yes MS could have won in that car,but saying that Sato or Sutil could is a slap in the face of Kimi,Lewis and Alonso.It baffles me why 80% of people here want one of the fastest drivers on a grid gone It really does.

Strange that the 'Kimi fans' think or know that his attitude didnt change over the last few years and a lot off F1 fans see this too ... And why would you be laughing at us? Its not like Kimi is a threat or something, heck, Kimi isnt even a threat to Massa ...

Soon as i wrote that i realised i made a mistake and deleted it.Sorry man

Well, you know what it is? ... I really can enjoy Kimi, i seriously do! But i prefer someone like Alonso over Kimi in that Ferrari, because i dont think Kimi is the man for the job to pull Ferrari to a higher level.

I would love to see Kimi back in McLaren though! .. Slamming that McLaren in those highspeed corners (no, not into the walls!).

Please dont get me wrong, the easiest way to express my feelings ... i think Kimi has the 'greyhound problem', when a greyhound catches the rabbit they are running for, they will never run as good as he used to do ... Kimi won the WDC and his dream is 'fullfilled' And now im off to bed! .. cya tomorrow i guess, nn.

I respect that.Maybe my "Fanboyism" is blinding me or something,but he had a great career if it ends after this year.Personally i would want Kimi and Alonso in that Ferrari because of the stories we would hear from Spanish media about Kimi "Kimi drunk at races" and that kind of stuff it would be gold why would you even want Ferrari in higher level? Your a Mac fan so it doesnt make sense

Can I just say that every time Kimi has had a podium finish this year you cant shut him up in a press conference. Normally do as much talking as you have to, thank the teams blah, blah blah. They had to shut him up in Monaco, he would have gone on for Finland. He is fighting a slow car and he is being proud of getting on the podium.

The pressure is now on Kimi for Ferrari. They want 3rd in the championship, Luca might get a couple of points, but Kimi has to get Ferrari 3rd. If he does that, he aint going anywhere. Once he's proved himself to be a Ferrari driver as opposed to a driver then his stock goes up a lot.

The Ferrari fans see hom as a driver, this is a quote I found

While Massa would be prepared to go down with the ship, with a prancing horse-shaped anchor attached to his torso, Raikkonen would take the sole lifeboat and leave his fellow sailors stranded.

Kimi has to prove he has the Prancing Horse tattood on his chest and in his heart. Michael has that and so does Massa. The Tifosi want to see it from Kimi. Kimi has big shoes to fill, if he gets Ferrari 3rd this year, there is no way that Alonso will fill his shoes.

Yeah but on paper Kimi's results in Ferrari aren't at all worse than Massa's:

- 2007 WDC vs Massa's 4th; 2008 3rd vs Massa's 2nd (advantage Kimi, if for nothing more than that WDC)
- 203 points for 2 1/2 seasons vs Massa's 213 (pretty much equal)
- 8 wins, 23 podium finishes vs Massa's 9 wins, 22 podiums (pretty much equal)
- 5 pole positions, 16 fastest laps vs Massa's 12 poles and 9 FL's (advantage Massa, because in todays F1 a good grid position is worth much more than a fast lap)

It seems Kimi's main problem was qualifying, is it because he can't make the tires work in such a short time or something else, and then he has to fight an uphill battle during the race because of it.

So if Ferrari wants to get rid of one because of "poor results", by the same measure the other should go too? Besides, Kimi does have that one WDC to his name.

(And, if you think about it, those results are actually pretty good.)

Although there's no question which of the Ferrari drivers is more cost effective if we take their respective salaries into consideration. But again it's not Kimi's fault that Ferrari made him the most expensive race car driver on the Earth.