Alright, then. Thanks Bigglesworth, I will just be charitable then, and say it's dried white paint, and not a fresh load of spunk, shall I?

No, because his practices are well beyond what you'd consider to be normal.

You say he's transformed the sport into a global phenomenon.

I'd argue it was far better before he became the self-appointed crusader trying to cement his legacy by saving the sport from itself.

Mosley is an autocratic bully boy who seems hell bent on destroying many careers as possible.

He's interfering with the sport we love, and that makes him a big target.

That he's a pervert is a side issue, but one which is a pretty damning indictment on his honesty and integrity.

I hate to break this to you potmotr, but he´s been the sport´s administrator for the past 16 years. Because the changes he´s made weren´t to your liking hardly constitutes "interference". Change goes hand in hand with time. It´s simply unavoidable.
The end result might not be something you particularly like, but then you do appear to be in a tiny minority, if F1 attendance and TV viewing figures are to be believed.

I don't agree.

In the past three or four years Mosley has made a succession of bad calls (2.4l V8s, KERS etc etc) which have wasted tens of millions of dollars for every team.



TV and marketing of F1 has advanced a great deal for sure, but just because it's popular does that make it better?

And when did Mosley become responsible for making the sport popular?

He's been the man involved in some of the most destructive headlines in the sports history.

Mosley has achieved NOTHING great, absolutely nothing. Personal vendetta don't count.

How can anyone claim at this point that any achievements of Max aren't massively over-shadowed by the damage he's done to the sport? He's a vengeful tyrant who cares nothing of the fairness of the game, the rules he's supposed uphold, or the lifes he's ruined. He should held accountable for his deeds, but it seems no-one can touch him. The latest threats against FIA members voting Vatanen is really just the tip of the iceberg (and the election will be a travesty of democratic election, if/when Max has his way with it).

All the headlines created in recent years keep F1 in the public eye, but only in the negative sense. It may be that a large portion of the audience thrives at the controversy and scandal, but F1 is fast loosing all credibility with true sports fans, thanks to Mr. Mosley and Ecclestone. It may be that they have not created all the problems, but they certainly have taken advantage of them for personal gain and petty vengefulness. That's is not how the sport should be governed, is plain to see.

Viewed? I think that accolade would go to BCE. Discussed? Definitely, for all the wrong reasons!

I´m not so sure the 2.4l V8s was a bad call. On the contrary.
As for Kers, it´s still in it´s infancy, so it´s still way to early to judge that one.
Quite apart from that, I think he should be applauded for wanting to advance new technology, which is, according to the manufacturers involved, the reason they go F1 racing in the first place.
What I do find interesting is that you list what you see as his bad calls. How about his good one´s? Surely, even you will credit him with one or two positives? Why not list them?

Your language is selective. Shouldn´t that read, "TV and marketing of F1 has advanced a great deal for sure, but just because it's far more popular does that make it better?"
No, not necessarily. But conversely, does it make it worse?
You will never please all the people all the time.
I think you must remember, the technical evolution of motor sport has been responsible for many of the inherent problems we have, such as the lack of overtaking. OK, ban wings, reduce downforce, reduce grip, reduce speed and you will have overtaking again. These problems weren´t created by Max, but he did find himself in the very difficult position of trying to be everything to everybody. To simply blame him for all F1´s problems is far to convenient, not to say simplistic.

Very easily. Look at the increase in the amount of people who now follow F1.
Who was it who said, there is no such thing as bad publicity?
There is a whole industry based on reporting the shady goings on of the rich and famous. Paparazzi are paid millions for pictures of celebrities caught in compromising situations. That´s what the public want. Sex, scandal and smut.
Sorry chum, I didn´t create this scenario. Nor did Max. It´s just how it is. Bored little people, living boring little lives, slotted into boring little boxes. It´s what they´ve been told they want.
Forget the morality and bad image story. It can never be too bad or too immoral for the masses.
Seeing Max with his pants around his ankles probably got more people interested in F1 than any other reason in the past 10 years. Hell, he probably even set it all up himself. Now wouldn´t that be a turn up for the books.

I'm not natural speaker, but tell me if there is halfwit is there complete wit also? or totalwit

or is it just halfwit?

ex Rhodie: You make some good points for sure.

I don't blame Mosley for all F1's problems, but neither do I think he's been its saviour by any means.

F1 would have grown and prospered without his iron fist.

And another F1 president would have guided the sport through cost-cutting measures and safety revisions.

Who knows what heights of popularity F1 could have scaled if another man was in Mosley's position?

I find it hard to accept that Mosley can be viewed as anything but completely destructive for Formula One.

The level of scandal and personal vendetta he's fuelled, particularly in recent years is personally humiliating for Mosley, if only he knew it.

I disagree on V8s and KERs too. A needless expense (V10s could have been rev-restricted) and an equally costly technical white elephant at a time when Mosley claimed to be cutting costs? Doesn't make sense.

So much of Mosley's behaviour is aimed at cementing his legacy in the sport.

He wants to the world to remember him as the man who saved Formula One from itself.

The alternative is being remembered as a seedy pervert and hopeless intellectual snob who almost destroyed Formula One with his score settling and other heinous self-serving acts.

Back OT, what purpose does Mosley slagging off Stewart's intellect have?

It shows what a thin-skinned weasel he is.

Mosley can't counter Stewart's arguments so goes below the belt.

Pathetic behaviour.

You say that like it's a good thing, are you really serious? I put it to you that in pursuing his PERSONAL vendetta Max has made things much worse than they'd otherwise been. He's not acting as an impartial ref, there's always a personal agenda to his actions. The trouble with pleasing the scandal mongering masses is that they will soon become bored, so you need to feed them new scandals and further denigrate the sport, otherwise they will turn elsewhere. Is this really the public on whom the future of the F1 will be built?

And please don't call me a 'chum' ok?

Apart from when cost is involved and then things are banned or put into stasis, so I don't think this is a good example.

He's been the person behind almost ripping apart the FIA and also Formula1; given that I think any thing good he has done pales completely in comparison.

Dictators have always had their supporters though, even though it's bleedin' obvious to everyone else they are no good.

Regards
Andy

The word for Max is f***wit.

"almost ripping apart F1" as you call it was mostly FOTA's work and when was FIA "almost ripped apart"?

Ok chum, I´ll try to remember that in future.

I'd argue that Mosley's normal arrogance (making fun of the team bosses etc) helped take the sport to the brink.

Anyway, we're drifting off topic.

His comments on Stewart are just revolting.

Stewart is dyslexic. That's a disability. Would Mosley make fun of Sir Frank Williams because he can't walk? Of Lewis Hamilton's brother's condition?

The guy has no class at all.

He's saddled the sport with a debt so large that 50% of its revenues are taken to pay its creditors - all to allow his crony to become a billionaire, for which Mosley himself reputedly received a kickback of $300M. If you think that's anything other than disgraceful you are seriously warped. Mosley's the worst thing ever to happen to the sport, Ecclestone by himself could never have amassed such wealth and influence without Mosley's assistance, together they've turned the sport into a cesspit.

I never met hitler, does that mean i can't critisise him? You don't need to have met man to understand him, we've all watched Mosley's behaviour for 16 years , we've read all about his past, we've seen how he reacts to different situations, we know enough to know he is a nasty peice of work. Of the people who do work with him and know him there are precious few who have a good word to say about him.

anyway, i thought you appreciated "calling a spade a spade"?



Corrupt, lying, abusive, vindictive, egomaniacal powermonger = critisising a man on the internet?



Yeah cut the fella some slack, he may piss all over the rules, threaten, abuse and intimidate anyone who doesn't obey his command, cheat on his wife for 40 years, beat up prostitutes, abuse his position to settle personal vendettas, insult and publically humiliate anyone who questions him, make endless streams of piss poor decisions, offer unfair political advantages to teams he likes whilst punishing those he doesn't, get involved in endless scandals professionally and privatley, abuse democratic mechanisims and sneer at a man for having dyslexia.

but you know, i hardly ever buy the big issue so really, when you think about it, i'm just as bad aren't I?



really? the commercial expansion is down to Bernie, most of the things that max gets people talking about are corruption and i think the sport could survive without that, don't you? and for being one of the most discussed sports on the planet i have severe problems finding F1 fans in my day to day life.




why? because it's a discussion board, that's why we come, to discuss.

Poll

762 votes at the minute, and 82% want a change from mosley's regime, i'd say he's in the majority.

I stopped reading right there, so I can´t comment on your post. Sorry.
Have you ever heard of Godwins law?
Well, according to him, you´ve just lost the argument.

Come on man, Boing 2 took the time to reply at length to your post, you can at least address his points rather than fobbing him off...

Actually I think you'll find a lot of people are simply upset with his belittling of JYS.

Might I piont out on the last page that you said that it's "refreshing to hear a man call it like it really is". This rather makes it sound like you agree with him, which whilst you have every right to do so does make you at odds with most of the board here.

What I think is "really quite sad" is that you are spending time coming onto a discussion board whos membership are largely at odds with your view and crowing on about how wrong we all are.

Max has made things worse for F1 and the FIA. I don't see it any other way. Sure some things are better, but the down side is farther down than ever. His recent letter, which knocked Ari and his campaign to be FIA president was shocking. I honestly think Max has an emotional screw loose.
Sure more people are talking about F1 - but they're laughing at it and talking about it because so much of it is being shown to be absurd.

That's what some people want, i personally have had enough scandal to last a lifetime and juding by the reactions on this board for the last few years i'm not alone. The 'give people what they want' mentality is the attitude of the tabloids, never strive to achieve, never try to improve, just wallow in your own filth like an animal. It's precisely that mentality that's sucking society down the drain, happy slappers, paedo's, teenage murderers, crack heads, enforced prostitution, jerry springer and his garbage TV offspring, the BNP, all justify themselves by "doing what we want" "giving the people what they want".

I love to see people rise above this lobotomised, self serving pond scum, people like Jackie Stewart, i have no time for those who live that lifestyle nor those who pander to it.



Told they want? i thought they wanted it? which is it to be?




cool, let's have the race winner force a 10 year old to kill a puppy on the podium! think of the ratings!!!

So you didn't read the argument but you know it's wrong?

i can see why you're such a fan of Mosley

If your best defense is putting your fingers in your ears and singing La La La not listening, well, it's not a good sign for your opinion is it?

A man with no class and even less dignity (if that is possible) insults a well respected sporting icon. It's not the first time and it probably won't be the last time. He should be ignored. He specialises in politics. Politicians are ten-a-penny. The mascot of Hartlepool United Football Club (A giant Monkey called H'angus) became a successful local politician. There are millions of others who could have done Mosley's job and with a lot more class. In fact, even H'angus the Monkey could have.

I will happily discuss his post if he refrains from using the Hitler, Nazi stuff in order to make his points. I can´t, and won´t, get into a discussion with anyone who employs those tactics.

Oh, fair enough then.

Hopefully you guys can find some common ground because it is an interesting discussion.

As you know, I find Mosley's behaviour to Stewart totally indefensible.

It is like Sepp Blatter slagging off Maradona because of his addiciton issues.

This is nonsense. Hitler is an obvious example which is why he is commonly brought up. You can substitute any number of people into that sentence and it's still valid. He made some good points and if you don't want to respond to them just say that.

Personally I had no problems with Max calling Stewart a half-wit and a figure of ridicule and laughter in the paddock when he said it originally (2007 iirc), Sir know-it-all had it coming with his constant stream of criticism on FIA and it's representatives.

Me, I don't think the halfwit was intended to mock Stewart's dyslexia at all but just a (apt) description of his behaviour at that time. Was it neccesary, probably not, was it presidential, probably not, was it understandable, probably yes.

To repeat it in 2009 in that crappy interview was unneccesary imo, but the feud between those two has become rather personal and Max being weeks away from retirement probably lead him to get the boot in one more time.

Smart no, the end of the world as some hysterics seem to think, hardly.
Stewart is a big boy who knows that if you pick a fight you'll get a few punches back.

@JPW: I hear you man, but Stewart never criticised Mosley personally.

Mosley never responds to his points. He just slags him off.

If Stewart wanted to lower himself to that level he could snipe at Mosley's rather off-piste sexual preferences. Instead Sir Jackie sticks to the issues.

And Sir Jackie has earned his place as a F1 observer. He's a triple world champion. He's a former race-winning team owner . When he talks, people listen.

Mosley has no answer to that, which is beyond pathetic for a a man of his supposed intellect.

No, it was all Max's work by creating and applying rules that were unrealistic and then who had to back down when forced rather than having the good sense to do it from choice.

The FIA was disrupted by his failure to act properly after the sex scandal and the sham voting that went on in regards to it. As you seem to have been living in a cave for the last 2 years feel free to read all the Mosley related threads.

Regards
Andy

Stewart's continuing baseless and jingoistic criticisms during all of Spygate were annoying beyond end and sadly everything the old fool says ends up in the papers.

To dismiss him as a figure of fun in the paddock (which he kinda is if you believe the practical joke Bernie pulled on him lately), mock his dresscode and call him not the sharpest tool in the shed a.k.a. halfwit might not be kind or very presidential but it's no big deal imo either.

Stewart picked a fight with FIA and it's president and received a punch back that's the way things go in the real world, ask Martin Brundle.

Actually, if I remember correctly, he didn't publish those pics. You have to talk to some other people what was their thinking in publishing photos from the entrapement. Now, what am I thinking about Max's taste? Well, I think it's none of my business, what's going on behind walls of his privacy. There has to be limit to our demands that some people must be altar boys, while rest of us can do whatever we like.

103-55 a huge majority of FIA seems to think Max did the proper thing to ask them and wanted him to stay

cave not so much, you?

I will construct my arguments whatever way i choose and use whatever names i feel suitable to make a point, if you can't handle that without throwing a hissy fit that's your choice.


As i say, these refusals to enter into a discussion on a rather contrived and desperate "moral" point are simply a diversion to avoid the many weaknesses of your original argument.








PS you're acting just like Hitler!

Like I said, go back and read the old threads and see the disruption it caused rather than quote a number that means nothing. You don't even know what the average for and against vote is for FIA votes over the last few years, so just quoting that number is meaningless.

Regards
Andy

What, you mean that lawsuit which resulted in Brundle and The Times saying they stood behind the story 100 percent?

The same Mosley scare tactic which resulted that particular legal action being quietly dropped?

Brundle won that one, no question at all.

Which means what exactly? that we can't have a different opinion. The FIA is a political lobby group that's all. The sun doesn't rise and fall upon their command. It's been exposed as a farce, an undemocratic orgamization that lives on fear. You've bought into it.

JPW- do you any connection with the FIA or Max Mosley? Apologies if you have confirmed or denied this before.

No problem and actually you're the first to ask (the others just insinuate)

But in no way or form I've a professional or personal connection to the FIA or Max apart from attending a few FIA fonctions and meeting Max once or twice (at which I was in no position to call him Max btw ).

OK?

JBW, calling names, making fun, and generally hurling targeted inappropriate comments at an individual is, perhaps, not a big deal in school yards and on the pitch, but it is considerably a bigger deal when it is the president of a global organization aiming taunts at another individual.
Maybe Bernie played a practical joke on him. So what? Practical jokes and rude jibes are common in the F1 paddock. Had Bernie announced his intentions to the world and called in some TV cameras and microphones to record the merriment at the opportune moment it would put a whole new spin on the prank.

Max sounds like a man not in control of his considerable grey matter too many times. Too often when he sticks his fingers in everything turns to mush - and he seeks out things to touch!

Don't agree. He is a scum of a rare elegance.

My goodness what an officious and heinous offering of detritus you pedal.

JYS got where he was by hard work and massive talent
Max was born into his nasty, spoiled school child way of governance.... & mummy owns the school.

Your privileged hero is now blackmailing members of the FIA who intend to vote for Ari.
"a letter from Mosley hinted at member clubs that vote for Ari Vatanen could be ostracised by Jean Todt if he wins"

Not to mention Max' little Vichy lapdog puppet Todt, telling Fernando he would 'NEVER drive for Ferrari if he could help it'

It all stinks to high heaven

I think you should get your nose into Diana Mitford's 'charming memoirs' A Life of Contrasts, about the family's adoration of upper class, inbred twits and race cleansing genocidal megalomaniacs. Perhaps then you might realize how silly you look proffering this horseshit....but then again perhaps not.

Jp

It's late - but

Well said. Really - the thread can end there.

Given the handicap of severe dyslexia JYS' achievements are even more laudable. Calling him a certified halfwit was a particularly unpleasant jibe, but what else would you expect from a man of such rare arrogance.

I have no problem with Mosley's BDSM related private activities nor with much of his record at the FIA (20:20 hindsight makes it easy to criticize) or his career in Motorsport in general. He's clearly a very intelligent man with an exceptionally sharp mind but his early political background is troubling and his silence on the matter only makes things worse. Too often he weighs in on issues with a moral superiority that I find unnerving for a man directly involved in the fascist Union Movement part in his teens and early 20s. Max's standard line is always of about his family name and never addresses his own actions or his opinions of those of his father.

The Hitler reference is incredibly relevant for just the reason Godwin's Law exists. Nazi and Fascist references shouldn't be used flippantly because they are a very serious matter. The horrors that the rise of these movements created mean that they should never used as a cheap shot in an online discussion. The problem is Mosley is directly linked not only through his family but also through his own actions working with his father's party, to these very movements. As FIA president it's just not acceptable to have not publicly talked about and apologised for his own actions (call them youthful indiscretions or simply following his fathers lead) and openly denounce the hateful ideology of his father's political parties. His silence gives ammunition to racists and fascists by legitimising the views the Keep Britain White campaign and the Union of Fascists and gives ammunition to the view that they are widely held but not talked about due to political correctness. (thereby nullifying positive work like the FIA anti racism campaign)

If someone has an interview, book or article where Max discusses openly, and in depth his role in/memories of the Notting Hill riots, 'Keep Britain White' or the Union Movement and his Fathers political views then I'll take everything I've said above back.

Very apt!

Mosley's epitaph, like that of his mother and father, will be of a rotten human being, a person who spent his life bullying, swindling and sneering. That he counts Todt as a friend says everything one needs to know about the revolting Frenchman. Far from being a figure of fun, JYS appears widely liked and admired, rubbing shoulders with the upper strata of society which has spurned Mosley - and all the while repeatedly castigating Mosley's odious regime in the press. No wonder Mosley's got a grudge.