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BMW_F1
This is what I was talking about yesterday..

Crew chiefs will determine the outcome of this Chase

QUOTE
The big all-in calls involved not straights or flushes, but two tires or four. Seven weeks from now, a driver is going to celebrate a championship in South Florida. But this title will ultimately be won by the crew chief whose gambles work out for the best.

Is there any doubt after Sunday? Of the three Chase races, two have now been won by pit-strategy calls, those gambles disguised as educated guesses that can land a driver anywhere from out of the running to Victory Lane. Two weeks ago at New Hampshire, it was crew chief Alan Gustafson's decision to stay out on a pit cycle that paved the way for Mark Martin's win. Sunday, it was crew chief Darian Grubb's call to take two tires on the final pit stop that got Tony Stewart back in the championship hunt.

"We knew we had a shot at it, and we knew track position was going to be the key," Grubb said following the fourth victory this season for the No. 14 team. "So we had to do that to be able to get out there and race those guys that were so fast."

There will always be exceptions like last weekend's event at Dover, where Jimmie Johnson had the field covered from beginning to end. But given how much better the current Sprint Cup car handles in clear air, and given how perilous it can be back in the field during a double-file restart late in the race, events ebb and flow on track-position gambles.

..."It just looks bad [Sunday] because we got beat with it, but if you look at it throughout the course of every race, it does come down to that," Erwin said, referring to pit strategy. "They're either fuel-mileage races, or they're pit-strategy races. It's very, very rare that there's a race where everybody puts four on with 40 laps to go and the best car drives from eighth to the win. It's just doesn't play out like that very often. It is all about how you get off of pit road, and [getting] clean air."
whitewaterMkII
QUOTE (Race Aficionado @ Oct 5 2009, 22:31) *
Nah!
They just still can't admit that Juan is for real and has always been for real.
Most of the neigh sayers have now quietly stepped back but others still are stubbornly
complaining because the new kid in the block is now playing with the big boys and is here for the big prize while having a lot of fun.

and you gotta love his interviews . . . .

smile.gif

Read the thread. I can't find ONE JPM naysayer on it...
Can you?
Race Aficionado
QUOTE (whitewaterMkII @ Oct 5 2009, 16:13) *
Read the thread. I can't find ONE JPM naysayer on it...
Can you?



it can be "hidden" but you will find them:

"Oh, so that's why Montoya only just snuck into the Chase without any bonus points. They were DELIBERATELY keeping out of the top five so that one freak incident would have made them thirteenth. There's me thinking that getting better results would mean a Chase place would have been more certain."

But I'm not going to get into a pissing match here.

I'm excited that Juan is in and if the Chase format is changed, I'm sure he will be fighting his way into it too.

peace
4L3X
I think sooner or later Montoya will have to try changing two tires in the end to get track position. I think it's a risk worth taking down the road, if not on this one. Yes, he could have gone JJ way, but also he could have gone forwards.
DLaw
Conincident? Now that the 48 and the 5 are "more" legal, the 42 finished ahead?

yawnface.gif
whitewaterMkII
QUOTE (DLaw @ Oct 6 2009, 00:41) *
Conincident? Now that the 48 and the 5 are "more" legal, the 42 finished ahead?

yeah, that crossed my mind immediately
I believe they took their cars again this weekend down to the NASCAR tech facility.
Kucki
Normally they only take the winner and one randomly picked car from the race to post race inspection. Why did they took the 5 and the 48 AGAIN to scrutineering? This is highly unusual procedere? Hope NASCAR sees a real reason to do so otherwise it just puts doubt over the archievements of JJ and Mark Martin.
whitewaterMkII
QUOTE (Kucki @ Oct 6 2009, 00:47) *
This is highly unusual procedere?

Very unusual.
Here's an article on it.

http://www.thatsracin.com/115/story/19953.html
Option1
QUOTE (Race Aficionado @ Oct 5 2009, 11:36) *
it can be "hidden" but you will find them:

"Oh, so that's why Montoya only just snuck into the Chase without any bonus points. They were DELIBERATELY keeping out of the top five so that one freak incident would have made them thirteenth. There's me thinking that getting better results would mean a Chase place would have been more certain."

But I'm not going to get into a pissing match here.

I'm excited that Juan is in and if the Chase format is changed, I'm sure he will be fighting his way into it too.

peace

Wonderful to see the old F1 JPM sad fanboi paranoia infecting the NASCAR thread. FYI, some of us have hated the Chase concept since the very beginning and continue to do so. I realise this will come as a helluva shock to you, but believe me when I say, not everything in the entire universe revolves around Montoya. Fvck some fans make it hard to like the driver they support.

Despite that I'll continue to cheer for JPM, and for Jimmie, and for Smoke, and for Marcos, and for Keslowski, and for Kyle, and even for Junior.

Neil
DLaw
QUOTE (Option1 @ Oct 5 2009, 10:27) *
Wonderful to see the old F1 JPM sad fanboi paranoia infecting the NASCAR thread. FYI, some of us have hated the Chase concept since the very beginning and continue to do so. I realise this will come as a helluva shock to you, but believe me when I say, not everything in the entire universe revolves around Montoya. Fvck some fans make it hard to like the driver they support.

Despite that I'll continue to cheer for JPM, and for Jimmie, and for Smoke, and for Marcos, and for Keslowski, and for Kyle, and even for Junior.

Neil


Not sure what you are on about? confused.gif
BMW_F1
QUOTE (Option1 @ Oct 5 2009, 22:27) *
FYI, some of us have hated the Chase concept since the very beginning and continue to do so.


so? ..
Option1
Oh FFS, is yours & Dlaw's reading comprehension so bad? I suggest you go read the post I quoted plus the earlier posts on the matter by Race Afficiando. Shee it, do try and keep up with the discussion before commenting on it. Then again, I shouldn't be surprised...

Neil
Race Aficionado
QUOTE (Option1 @ Oct 5 2009, 17:58) *
Oh FFS, is yours & Dlaw's reading comprehension so bad? I suggest you go read the post I quoted plus the earlier posts on the matter by Race Afficiando. Shee it, do try and keep up with the discussion before commenting on it. Then again, I shouldn't be surprised...

Neil

Neil.
No fan boy f1 paranoia here.

No intent on infecting any thread here . . . .

I don't even see why you bring F1 into this nor the fan boy concept.

Yes, I'm a blatant JPM fan and I am new in Nascar-therefore new in the Chase concept - still after 3 years -

The Chase is the Chase right now and JPM and his team raced it to reach it, albeit uncomfortable for Juan in many cases by having to hold back.

And if the Chase rules change or the Chase concept disappears next season, Juan and I'm sure all the rest of the drivers will accommodate accordingly.

again,
peace

BMW_F1
QUOTE (Option1 @ Oct 5 2009, 22:58) *
Oh FFS, is yours & Dlaw's reading comprehension so bad? I suggest you go read the post I quoted plus the earlier posts on the matter by Race Afficiando. Shee it, do try and keep up with the discussion before commenting on it. Then again, I shouldn't be surprised...

Neil


I am too lazy can you please tell me what it was..
DLaw
QUOTE (Option1 @ Oct 5 2009, 10:58) *
Oh FFS, is yours & Dlaw's reading comprehension so bad? I suggest you go read the post I quoted plus the earlier posts on the matter by Race Afficiando. Shee it, do try and keep up with the discussion before commenting on it. Then again, I shouldn't be surprised...

Neil


Yes sir, but I still don't know what you are on about?
So, I will consider you a troll. stoned.gif


BTW, GO 42!!!!
Mary Popsins
JPM makes Nascar look credible to many who otherwise wouldn't bother watching it. Most of the posts are about the 42 but it's done nicely so let's say that this in the JPM fan-club. No need to bother as there's nothing here that looks like the appalling bashing that inhabits most F1 threads.

I guess that if I knew better about Montoya I'd be able to appreciate his style in the Nascar races. Still got seven occasions to do so.

About the Chase I quite like the concept. It's the play-offs plus the other teams/drivers are still involved. It helps focusing on the top ranked drivers. Yesterday they did quite well: nine out of ten.
BMW_F1
JPM Stirring Things Up Again

http://www.racintoday.com/archives/10659
OfficeLinebacker
So's Brad Keselowski:

http://www.scenedaily.com/news/articles/sp...s_Cup_race.html

I didn't catch it during the race but this time NASCAR had to step in and tell him to think more.

Montoya doesn't have a beef with him, Juan thinks Brad's spotter dropped the ball.

But ol' Brad K isn't making any friends in Cup, that's for sure. And in Cup, you need friends.
whitewaterMkII
QUOTE (OfficeLinebacker @ Oct 6 2009, 04:38) *
But ol' Brad K isn't making any friends in Cup, that's for sure. And in Cup, you need friends.

I'm looking forward to the vets putting this punk in the wall all year next year.
I've rarely seen such a pompous ass going into his rookie year.
He's the complete opposite of Logano.
ensign14
QUOTE (Race Aficionado @ Oct 5 2009, 16:36) *
it can be "hidden" but you will find them:

My comments were nothing to do with Montoya. Put him in a Hendrick or Roush car and I have no doubt he would be a regular winner. They were ALL to do with the idiocy of The Chase.

I just wait for them to cut The Chase down to 1 race. And then decide the title on green-white-chequered.
Bolido
QUOTE (ensign14 @ Oct 5 2009, 15:15) *
[...]
I just wait for them to cut The Chase down to 1 race. And then decide the title on green-white-chequered.

Please shut up, they could be listening... roflmao.gif roflmao.gif
Race Aficionado
QUOTE (ensign14 @ Oct 5 2009, 22:15) *
My comments were nothing to do with Montoya. Put him in a Hendrick or Roush car and I have no doubt he would be a regular winner. They were ALL to do with the idiocy of The Chase.

I just wait for them to cut The Chase down to 1 race. And then decide the title on green-white-chequered.


point taken.
New Britain
QUOTE (DLaw @ Oct 5 2009, 17:41) *
Conincident? Now that the 48 and the 5 are "more" legal, the 42 finished ahead?

yawnface.gif

In this race, Jeff Gordon finished ahead of Montoya, and Earnhardt led quite a few laps, whilst Montoya led none.
Therefore it is a coincidence, unless one believes that Hendrick made their 2 "illegal" cars legal, but at the same time made their two legal cars illegal.

About 6 months ago, Nigel Roebuck had a great column from Daytona, in which he interviewed Montoya and D. Franchitti. They both said that Sprint Cup cars were more challenging to race than single-seaters were.
Hippo
Actually Montoya led one lap because of the pit layout. At least that's what Nascar's ticker said.

About HMS I think that's coincidence really. Including Brad K and TStew they have at least 6 cars running out there. All of them are fast. And all of them were legal.

Somehow I like this. JPM is up there playing in the ballpark of HMS. That's not something to be mad about. It's a genuine achievement.
John B
QUOTE (ensign14 @ Oct 5 2009, 13:15) *
My comments were nothing to do with Montoya. Put him in a Hendrick or Roush car and I have no doubt he would be a regular winner. They were ALL to do with the idiocy of The Chase.

I just wait for them to cut The Chase down to 1 race. And then decide the title on green-white-chequered.



With a fan vote for one of the contenders lol.gif (This was actually rumored once, and someone justified it because 'it would make fans part of the action' - maybe Max could take a cue and let the BB appoint WDCs annually?......)

One more thing to love about this concept is those who make it essentially get bonus points for winning one of the first 26, but not for the last 10. Wouldn't you think this could be reversed?





whitewaterMkII
QUOTE (Hippo @ Oct 6 2009, 07:26) *
Actually Montoya led one lap because of the pit layout. At least that's what Nascar's ticker said.

About HMS I think that's coincidence really. Including Brad K and TStew they have at least 6 cars running out there. All of them are fast. And all of them were legal.

Somehow I like this. JPM is up there playing in the ballpark of HMS. That's not something to be mad about. It's a genuine achievement.

And Childress, with a huge stake in the engine biz only has one bullet in the chase, Montoya.
Believe me, Ganassi is getting carte blanche from the Childress engine room, and that's no small thing.
DEI/Ganassi is producing good chassis' and Childress is providing top engines.
This is a great year for JPM to take advantage of, and I have no doubt he'll use the shit out of what they give him.
Where's Rousch?
Where's Gibbs?
Heck, where are the Fords and Toyota's?
This is a Chevy race now, ironic that the Chevy sponsor bucks will likely be gone next year now that the union/government owns it.

whitewaterMkII
QUOTE (ensign14 @ Oct 6 2009, 05:15) *
I just wait for them to cut The Chase down to 1 race. And then decide the title on green-white-chequered.


Giving odds on whether that happens this year?
Seriously, it's totally possible that it could come down to that even now.
I didn't really like the 'chase' to start with, but after six years of it, it really is pretty set on who the big dogs are by 26 races in.
Cumalatively totalled points win Gold Medals in the Olympics, is it not any surprise it could also happen in racing?
Racing has always been point based.
The argument is on an acceptable way of tabulating points.
The devils choice is rewarding wins or consistency.
I can accept both.
OfficeLinebacker
QUOTE (Hippo @ Oct 5 2009, 19:26) *
Actually Montoya led one lap because of the pit layout. At least that's what Nascar's ticker said.

About HMS I think that's coincidence really. Including Brad K and TStew they have at least 6 cars running out there. All of them are fast. And all of them were legal.

Somehow I like this. JPM is up there playing in the ballpark of HMS. That's not something to be mad about. It's a genuine achievement.


I guess the 25 car is pretty much a Hendrick car, ain't it? So that actually makes seven with Ryan Newman.
pingu666
they where saying it was a hendrick car...
ensign14
QUOTE (John B @ Oct 6 2009, 02:53) *
One more thing to love about this concept is those who make it essentially get bonus points for winning one of the first 26, but not for the last 10. Wouldn't you think this could be reversed?

And I lost track with the points thing, but didn't Kyle Busch essentially go from 1st in the standings and favourite for the Cup to 11th and barred from contending by about six places?
OfficeLinebacker
QUOTE (pingu666 @ Oct 6 2009, 00:27) *
they where saying it was a hendrick car...


Interesting. I guess this is the last year teams are allowed to have five cars. I had already switched to the mode where they're limited to four.

So JJ, JG, MM, Jr are the four Hendrick full time teams.

T-Stew and RN are the SHR satellite team

and Keselowski was in for a one-off.

I guess in the future the one-offs can race for SHR with the same effect.
John B
QUOTE (ensign14 @ Oct 5 2009, 23:29) *
And I lost track with the points thing, but didn't Kyle Busch essentially go from 1st in the standings and favourite for the Cup to 11th and barred from contending by about six places?



Yes, it was the same situation for Busch and Martin. Both could have either been out completely or jumped up to the top seed, Martin obviously made it.

Don't know how Busch would have fared, as whether he's mentally up for a title bid remains to be seen, though he's finishing off Nationwide in good order. But it certainly would have been good to see him in over some of the others here. Vickers looks to be a clear case of a team that put it all out to make the chase and can't get the form going again.
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