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Hairpin
QUOTE (alan @ Oct 17 2009, 23:31) *
Why when people have no logical arguments do they have to bring race into an issue? Iam English does that mean i hate myself? If i criticize Button does that mean i hate him rolleyes.gif Do i have to necessarily support an English driver? This is just crazy.

You English race people types have no humor!
Stefanaus
QUOTE (Hairpin @ Oct 17 2009, 22:46) *
You English race people types have no humor!


you're wrong. for example, jeremy clarkson has some humor indeed smile.gif
Mauseri
QUOTE (Stefanaus @ Oct 18 2009, 00:48) *
you're wrong. for example, jeremy clarkson has some humor indeed smile.gif

If Button loses the championship he will deserve the fate. What a lacklustre second half in a dominant car lol.gif
BMW_F1
QUOTE (ensign14 @ Oct 18 2009, 02:34) *
Have a look around through past threads and you will see a very strong undercurrent from certain areas that they dislike Button and Hamilton because of their nationality.

actually I thought it was the other way around - that those who iike bbutton is because he is british.

I don't want to sound mean but what is there to like about Button?
ensign14
His girlfriend?

QUOTE (Hairpin @ Oct 17 2009, 22:46) *
You English race people types have no humor!

No.

We have humour.wink.gif
scheivlak
QUOTE (BMW_F1 @ Oct 17 2009, 22:56) *
I don't want to sound mean but what is there to like about Button?

That he's probably the most laid back guy on the grid apart from Kimi.

Which of course can be a weakness at times as well - especially when he's pushed to be something else than he is.
Hairpin
QUOTE (ensign14 @ Oct 18 2009, 00:00) *
His girlfriend?


No.

We have humour.;)

Except Jeremy Clarkson? Or does he have both? His body seem to have room for them in any case!

Anomnader
QUOTE (Stefanaus @ Oct 17 2009, 22:38) *
ah c'mon, webber! you're having a laugh, right? smile.gif



maybe, Webber could teach the english a thing or two about whinging
Brawn BGP 001
QUOTE (BMW_F1 @ Oct 17 2009, 22:56) *
I don't want to sound mean but what is there to like about Button?

He doesn't take things seriously.

Sounds a like a guy you would want to have drink with.
George Costanza
Barrichello says "Hold it right there..."

I believe he can do it. And boy, what a lovely sight that would be!
BMW_F1
I am sorry guys but he is boring and lacks character. When he was not winning you could hardly notice he was even racing. And about his performance, he is never been someone who has set the world on fire - at least kimi fans have that.
Coral
QUOTE (BMW_F1 @ Oct 17 2009, 23:18) *
I am sorry guys but he is boring and lacks character. When he was not winning you could hardly notice he was even racing. And about his performance, he is never been someone who has set the world on fire - at least kimi fans have that.


I totally agree...Button is just so boring. Boring and bland. What do we actually know about him? Has he ever come out with an opinion on anything? I wish that for once he could show a bit of personality. Button reminds me of your typical British television presenter...someone like Phillip Schofield...who smiles a lot, but says nothing. People say Kimi is boring but I don't think he is...Kimi comes across as a nonconformist which to me is appealing. And of course there is the obvious fact that Button is an average driver who has been flattered by a great car...
MinT
Barrichello - the driver even the rabid Brazilians cant (normally) bring themselves to support..therefore that unfortunately makes Button even worse on current showing - deeply disappointing....
James Bond
QUOTE (EVO2 @ Oct 17 2009, 21:43) *
It seems likely to me that during the first half they were sharing set up information across the garage and, with the same set up, ultimately Jenson is the faster and smoother driver. Could it be that Rubens does the better job of developing a race-winning set up then decided to hold back on sharing information from mid-season ?


I'm sorry but a geninue WDC should be able to set up his car properly and not rely on copying his teammate. What surprised me about Jenson's interview on the autosport website this morning was that he seemed angry that he didn't know what Rubens' set-up was. He doesn't have any real entitlement to that information - particularly at this stage of the season.

At this stage, having seen Jenson's dismal performances in recent races, I am rooting for Barichello. He's picked himself up after being beaten by his teammate in the early part of the season, dusted himself off and has gradually brought himself back into the game.

If Rubens wins Brazil and Jenson doesn't get a point, I think it's game over for Jenson because, on current form, Rubens should be able to get the job done in the final race.
BuzzingHornet
After strongly supporting Jenson all season, he will only have himself to blame if Barrichello does him now. Barrichello is doing a great job and is driving like a WDC contender, so good luck to him.

Button has always been a good racer but the last half of this season he has been rubbish in qualifying, and has been lucky not to be punushed harder.

So i'm happy for either guy to win it, and whoever wins will deserve it, but i'll be rooting for them BOTH today smile.gif
djellison
QUOTE (James Bond @ Oct 18 2009, 12:43) *
I'm sorry but a geninue WDC


What's an non genuine WDC?

6 wins from 7 races - JB would deserve it. Chasing down all season, RB would deserve it. This Championship will be deserved whoever gets it.
britishtrident
QUOTE (djellison @ Oct 18 2009, 13:54) *
What's an non genuine WDC?

6 wins from 7 races - JB would deserve it. Chasing down all season, RB would deserve it. This Championship will be deserved whoever gets it.


The one on my mantle piece it sits nicely between my Oscar and my Nobel Prize.

Jenson, Rubens, Sebastian & Mark --- what ever order they finish in what a great top four.
djellison
He's done it. He's deserved it. He's worked hard for it. He's beaten Ruben. He's beaten Vettel. He's lead the championship from the first race. He's won more points than anyone else. He's won more races than anyone else. He's done it with a team that didn't exist 12 months ago.

To describe this championship as 'tainted' is just some blinkered fanboyism of someone else, or unjustified hatred of Button and or Brawn.

Hairpin
He was great today. At last he drove like a Champion. Hopefully he will finish it off in style next race so this discussion can end. Until next time ;)
wewantourdarbyback
Tainted.... erm, no
Captain Tightpants
You wanted a champion's drive, you got it. Some absolutely masterful passes on Grrrjjjnnnnn, Algaesaurus and Cowboyashi. That poor qualifying was a blessing in disguise; it'll be interesting to see what he can do in Abu Dhabi.
Levike
Tainted ? In what way ? It was a true chapionship for a true man. He is not guilty of anybody else-s fault and he was figthint straight. Well don
Buttoneer
Button is shit. but he's shit with the World Champion title. I can live with both as long as others can suck it up.
wewantourdarbyback
QUOTE (Buttoneer @ Oct 18 2009, 18:55) *
Button is shit. but he's shit with the World Champion title. I can live with both as long as others can suck it up.


lol.gif
inaki
QUOTE (Don_Humpador @ Oct 3 2009, 08:44) *
It's not tainted, it's just disappointing that, as someone else said, he appears to be limping over the finishing line.

I feel very strange.
There is not a bit of emotion in me after this season´s result.
I really think that Jenson is a great bloke and has fulfilled his dream.
What I cannot understand has been the 1st double diffusor / KERS differences at the beginning of the season and the results that have outcome after it. In this sense I agree with some principals´ complains after firsts GPs saying that this season was like having 2 sets of different rules. There were a double set of standards for the cars. After a while rest of teams have react and catched up. RBR and Adrian Newey have got a great double diffusor car too, many other teams have given up developments early, etc.
This has been an odd season to say the least.
Coral
Button will never be one of the greatest WDCs but even I must admit he deserves it more than Rubens. He made some very good overtaking moves today. Yes he was lucky to have such an unbeatable car at the start of the season but he did a good job. This will almost certainly be his only title, but he is champion and no one can take it away from him.

Congrats Jenson. up.gif
WebBerK
Button's WDC tastes Fish&Chips ohwell.gif

JB got the championships luck.
People just kept suiciding in front of him on a dry track.

Like:
- What ??? Jenson is comming ? Aaaaaarggg... Banzai... tongue.gif
GNT4ME
I have been waiting to do this for a while on this thread…..
It’s not very constructive – but who cares.
After today’s race – all you detractors can take your criticism of Jenson – and shove it where the sun don’t shine.

JENSON BUTTON WORLD CHAMPION 2009….bite me clap.gif clap.gif clap.gif
The Ragged Edge
I've slagged of Button more than once, but after todays aggressive drive, he's answered a few questions today. He showed he had a big pair of cohenes. up.gif
D.M.N.
I wanted Vettel to win, but today was a champion's drive. up.gif
Bishy
QUOTE (The Ragged Edge @ Oct 18 2009, 19:36) *
I've slagged of Button more than once, but after todays aggressive drive, he's answered a few questions today. He showed he had a big pair of cohenes. up.gif



+1

He actually showed some guts today and pulled off some overtaking moves that had me nodding in agreement!
Aubwi
I think spectators have come to expect Schumacher-style domination and blistering fast laps from their world champions. But Jenson is more in the pre-Schumacher mold. More like Prost or Mario Andretti. The approach is more one of taking wins when the car is good enough to give them to you, and taking care of the machinery and making damn sure to score points when the car isn't good enough for a win. Even a fighter like Senna adopted this approach when he took his last championship in 1991. I think that approach takes much more professionalism and discipline, if not raw talent. The F1 fans who can appreciate this approach are the more serious and enduring fans, so I think Button's championship will ultimately be remembered well.
Captain Tightpants
QUOTE (Aubwi @ Oct 19 2009, 05:50) *
I think spectators have come to expect Schumacher-style domination and blistering fast laps from their world champions. But Jenson is more in the pre-Schumacher mold. More like Prost or Mario Andretti. The approach is more one of taking wins when the car is good enough to give them to you, and taking care of the machinery and making damn sure to score points when the car isn't good enough for a win. Even a fighter like Senna adopted this approach when he took his last championship in 1991. I think that approach takes much more professionalism and discipline, if not raw talent. The F1 fans who can appreciate this approach are the more serious and enduring fans, so I think Button's championship will ultimately be remembered well.

Button has always shown that he uses his head. He goes in for a surgical strike like a laser-guided missile when the opportunity presents itself instead of a balls-to-the-wall artillery salvo like Hamilton that, while spectacular, saw the reigning World Champion screw the pooch on four separate occasions - Australia, Monaco, Germany and Italy (taken on their own, they don't do much, but if he'd shown a little restraint, he may have been a title contender) - when he was looking good for points this year. Take Button's start in Valencia for example: he backed off while Barrichello went in for the lead. He took criticism for it, but he could think far enough ahead to see that if he tried to challenge Vettel ino the first corner,he'd probably get there without a rear wing, and if he managed to make it back to the pits at all, his race would be all but over; two points is always better than no points.
stevewf1
QUOTE (Bishy @ Oct 18 2009, 14:40) *
+1

He actually showed some guts today and pulled off some overtaking moves that had me nodding in agreement!


He was a racer today for a change, which still makes me wonder what he was doing in the last several races... Coasting? ohwell.gif

britishtrident
QUOTE (Stefanaus @ Oct 17 2009, 22:48) *
you're wrong. for example, jeremy clarkson has some humor indeed smile.gif


Sadly Jeremy Clarkson humour dosen't translate into english.
rsherb
QUOTE (stevewf1 @ Oct 18 2009, 15:46) *
He was a racer today for a change, which still makes me wonder what he was doing in the last several races... Coasting? ohwell.gif


I thought he was a racer in Japan also. And Singapore. And Monza.

To be honest, his race performances have been very good, masked somewhat by his starting position. Qualifying is the area Jenson deserves any criticism, if any.
Slartibartfast
QUOTE (BMW_F1 @ Oct 17 2009, 22:56) *
actually I thought it was the other way around - that those who iike bbutton is because he is british.

I don't want to sound mean but what is there to like about Button?


There probably is a patriotic element in my support. Possibly even more, a regional-support element. But the main reason I support Button is that I believe he is a worthy champion not just in terms of technical ability/skill/speed but in terms of personality. Some may find him bland, but I think he is, fundamentally, a modest, decent man. He doesn't have the aggressive arrogance of recent champions, and I like that. I may be odd/old-fashioned/deranged, but I prefer to see a personable winner to an arrogant winner.
Buttoneer
QUOTE (stevewf1 @ Oct 18 2009, 20:46) *
He was a racer today for a change, which still makes me wonder what he was doing in the last several races... Coasting? ohwell.gif

How about the first seven races where he overtook hardly anyone? That surely proves he's rubbish.
Demo.
QUOTE (tarmac @ Oct 17 2009, 20:25) *
This is ridiculous. No-one should be able to way to get a championship this way.. frown.gif



so what way are they supposed to gain it then?
Should it just be your favoured driver?
I prefer the fact of the driver who won the most races and scored the most points in the whole season to get it and funnily enough i will tend to put more weight behind the fact that no matter how much better his car was than the other teams to start with he still had one other person on the grid with the same car that he had to beat.

I have a funny feeling you would be saying of someone who failed to finish the first 7 races but then won the last 6 races to become champion was a worthy one.
Its a shame how some people cannot figure out its the whole season that matters not just the last few races.
Congrats to JB as today no matter what others think we saw a great race with lots of overtaking and the preformance of JB rightly won him the WDC.
blizzzzard
Shocking facts:

Button in the last 10 races scored 34 points, 2 podiums, 0 wins, which means he would be 6th in the world championship (behind Vettel, Hamilton, Raikkonen, Barrichello and Webber), if the season was started in Silverstone.

Not just that, but based on the last 10 races, all WDCs since 1950 is more successful than him, including Rosberg from 1982, and Piquet from 1983. And most runners up are more successful than him as well, and many other drivers too. 34 points (17 in old system) never looked enough for better than 4th in the standings.

I know Button won 6 out of 7 at the start of the year, which is fine and all, but DDD controversy and the pisspoor second half taints this WDC forever.
Dalton007
QUOTE (blizzzzard @ Nov 2 2009, 08:28) *
Shocking facts:

Button in the last 10 races scored 34 points, 2 podiums, 0 wins, which means he would be 6th in the world championship (behind Vettel, Hamilton, Raikkonen, Barrichello and Webber), if the season was started in Silverstone.

Not just that, but based on the last 10 races, all WDCs since 1950 is more successful than him, including Rosberg from 1982, and Piquet from 1983. And most runners up are more successful than him as well, and many other drivers too. 34 points (17 in old system) never looked enough for better than 4th in the standings.

I know Button won 6 out of 7 at the start of the year, which is fine and all, but DDD controversy and the pisspoor second half taints this WDC forever.


His quali has been poor but his race pace has been excellent, probably the best of all drivers. DDD wasn't illegal, the other teams dropped the ball. Tough sh*t.
Clatter
QUOTE (blizzzzard @ Nov 2 2009, 08:28) *
Button in the last 10 races scored 34 points, 2 podiums, 0 wins, which means he would be 6th in the world championship (behind Vettel, Hamilton, Raikkonen, Barrichello and Webber), if the season was started in Silverstone.


And theres the pertinent point. The season did not start in Silverstone, nor is it only the second half of the season that counts.
blizzzzard
QUOTE (Dalton007 @ Nov 2 2009, 09:34) *
His quali has been poor but his race pace has been excellent, probably the best of all drivers. DDD wasn't illegal, the other teams dropped the ball. Tough sh*t.


He had far the best car in a race trim. An qualifying is also part of the races. How often did Button manage to outqualify Barra since Britain? Once?
Slartibartfast
(Not so) Shocking facts:

Button in the last 17 races scored 95 points, 3 podiums, 6 wins, which means he was 1st in the world championship (ahead of Vettel, Hamilton, Raikkonen, Barrichello and Webber), as the season was started in Australia.

blizzzzard
QUOTE (Slartibartfast @ Nov 2 2009, 10:15) *
(Not so) Shocking facts:

Button in the last 17 races scored 95 points, 3 podiums, 6 wins, which means he was 1st in the world championship (ahead of Vettel, Hamilton, Raikkonen, Barrichello and Webber), as the season was started in Australia.


This is the easiest way to ignore facts. When Button had a dominant car, with no real opposition, except for Red Bull in two races, and had a teammate who faced several issues like bad strategy and minor mechanical problems, he did deliver. But when his car was just equal to 3 other cars, he didn't do much with it.
Clatter
QUOTE (blizzzzard @ Nov 2 2009, 09:22) *
This is the easiest way to ignore facts. When Button had a dominant car, with no real opposition, except for Red Bull in two races, and had a teammate who faced several issues like bad strategy and minor mechanical problems, he did deliver. But when his car was just equal to 3 other cars, he didn't do much with it.


No, those are the facts. He scored OVER THE COURSE OF THE SEASON more wins, and more points than any other driver.

The facts are that the season did not start at Silverstone, it started in Oz.
blizzzzard
QUOTE (Clatter @ Nov 2 2009, 10:26) *
No, those are the facts. He scored OVER THE COURSE OF THE SEASON more wins, and more points than any other driver.

The facts are that the season did not start at Silverstone, it started in Oz.


Yes, but it's still a fact Button was just mediocre since Silverstone. And one can expect more from a WDC.
Slartibartfast
QUOTE (blizzzzard @ Nov 2 2009, 09:22) *
This is the easiest way to ignore facts. When Button had a dominant car, with no real opposition, except for Red Bull in two races, and had a teammate who faced several issues like bad strategy and minor mechanical problems, he did deliver. But when his car was just equal to 3 other cars, he didn't do much with it.


As Clatter has pointed out, I posted facts*. You can't take statistics from part of the season and then claim that to take statistics from the whole season is ignoring facts.
'Dominant car', 'no real opposition', 'bad strategy', 'car was just equal', and 'didn't do much with it' are all value judgements.

You have identified one weakness in Button's year and that is his qualifying. That is not enough to 'taint' his championship. If anything it reinforces the strength of his racing.






*I dislike using the term 'facts'. Arguments involving statements such as "I am using the FACTS", etc. tend, in my opinion, to be inherently weak. However, as I have been accused of ignoring 'facts', I feel forced to use the term in this case.
Force Ten
QUOTE (Slartibartfast @ Nov 2 2009, 11:15) *
Button in the last 17 races scored 95 points, 3 podiums, 6 wins, which means he was 1st in the world championship (ahead of Vettel, Hamilton, Raikkonen, Barrichello and Webber), as the season was started in Australia.


QUOTE (blizzzzard @ Nov 2 2009, 11:22) *
This is the easiest way to ignore facts.


Priceless.
Jeag
QUOTE (blizzzzard @ Nov 2 2009, 09:22) *
This is the easiest way to ignore facts. When Button had a dominant car, with no real opposition, except for Red Bull in two races, and had a teammate who faced several issues like bad strategy and minor mechanical problems, he did deliver. But when his car was just equal to 3 other cars, he didn't do much with it.



roflmao.gif roflmao.gif roflmao.gif roflmao.gif roflmao.gif

You just ignored the FACTS and then filled this post with your OPINION.
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