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DLaw
QUOTE (Raelene @ Oct 5 2009, 14:44) *
sure, but come on - HE WAS 23!!!!!


No he sounds like a 12 year old, that's what he is!

He is changing the story about the timing of the meeting, now it was just before the start of the race? He continues to lie and won't take any responsibilities.

And this:
"As a result of Renault not being very competitive, Briatore channelled all his unhappiness on me. He preferred to take it out on me during the two and a half seasons I was in Formula 1. I never saw other rookies being pushed as hard as I was. The pressure for results is normal, but the mental harassment is another story."

Tough sh*t ! go ask Speed, Bourdais, Hekki, etc. etc. You just cannot have you daddy as the team principal all your life.
You think Nascar Truck is any easier, you better think twice! Bodine, Skinner and company will eat your ass alive.
krapmeister
Just a couple of things - Firstly, has it been established that it wasn't NPjnr that came up with the idea? IIRC it still hasn't been proven that it was Flav and/or Pat who came up with the plan.

Secondly, he could have gone to the FIA as soon as it was suggested to him - before the race - let alone as soon as the race was over.

While he would have still been a shit F1 driver he would have retained some respect and dignity, and who knows - he may still be in F1.
VresiBerba
QUOTE (Hairpin @ Oct 5 2009, 03:00) *
That might be, but then one must ask "enough bullets for what"? They must have realized that the WDC could end up in the wrong hands.

How do you mean "WDC could end up in the wrong hands"? Whatever Renault did and the FIA did not, it had no bearing on the championship at all.
Flyhigh
I think what Piquet did was one of the most stupid things I could ever hear about. But how many times do you need to judge a person, really ?... what he did was extraordinary foolish, his image is in flames, he is paying back with interest. More than a lot of mistakes some of us have made in our twenties. I am all for calling as it is, but sooner or later people need to move on from it.
Hairpin
QUOTE (VresiBerba @ Oct 6 2009, 03:41) *
How do you mean "WDC could end up in the wrong hands"? Whatever Renault did and the FIA did not, it had no bearing on the championship at all.

No? Good, then they can delete the Singapore GP from the championship table since the rigged event affected the result of all drivers. Looking a the results from that race do disturb me quite a lot.
klyster
QUOTE (Hairpin @ Oct 6 2009, 04:19) *
No? Good, then they can delete the Singapore GP from the championship table since the rigged event affected the result of all drivers. Looking a the results from that race do disturb me quite a lot.


Nah, just delete Renaults result ;)
No need to reward Ferrari for screwing up.
britishtrident
QUOTE (krapmeister @ Oct 6 2009, 01:14) *
Just a couple of things - Firstly, has it been established that it wasn't NPjnr that came up with the idea? IIRC it still hasn't been proven that it was Flav and/or Pat who came up with the plan.

snip


In addition if it was Piquet jnr that put the plan to Flavio & Pat was itsomeone outside the four parties (Flav,Pat, Piquets 1& 2) that came up with the plan in the first place and put it to Piquet jnr, the question must then be asked who else had something to gain ?
as65p
QUOTE (britishtrident @ Oct 6 2009, 09:45) *
In addition if it was Piquet jnr that put the plan to Flavio & Pat was itsomeone outside the four parties (Flav,Pat, Piquets 1& 2) that came up with the plan in the first place and put it to Piquet jnr, the question must then be asked who else had something to gain ?


Exactly. It was all Grosjeans idea. smoking.gif
krapmeister
QUOTE (as65p @ Oct 6 2009, 16:59) *
Exactly. It was all Grosjeans idea. smoking.gif



lol.gif
VresiBerba
QUOTE (Hairpin @ Oct 6 2009, 05:19) *
No? Good, then they can delete the Singapore GP from the championship table since the rigged event affected the result of all drivers. Looking a the results from that race do disturb me quite a lot.

Funny you should say that, because 'deletion' is in retrospect the only thing that would make Massa champion, which would put the WDC in the wrong hands, as you put it. When was the last time the FIA deleted a race? Why would, or even should the FIA delete the race? Don't you think the FIA would just have disqualified Renault?
Hairpin
QUOTE (VresiBerba @ Oct 6 2009, 19:38) *
Funny you should say that, because 'deletion' is in retrospect the only thing that would make Massa champion, which would put the WDC in the wrong hands, as you put it. When was the last time the FIA deleted a race? Why would, or even should the FIA delete the race? Don't you think the FIA would just have disqualified Renault?

I don't know. I do not think that it is written in the regs how a rigged race should be handled. Maybe they did not want to try and find out? But as an effect of the event, all teams had their strategy screwed up and therefore it is very unlikely that the result 2-8 would have been the same without it. I do not either think that it would have led to invalidating the whole race, but it is certainly possible.
Jazza
QUOTE (Hairpin @ Oct 7 2009, 18:09) *
I don't know. I do not think that it is written in the regs how a rigged race should be handled. Maybe they did not want to try and find out? But as an effect of the event, all teams had their strategy screwed up and therefore it is very unlikely that the result 2-8 would have been the same without it. I do not either think that it would have led to invalidating the whole race, but it is certainly possible.


I don't see why the FIA should handle this any different than if Renault ran a V12. In that scenario,

1. Renault would get a win by cheating
2. This would affect the result of the race and championship

but they alone would be disqualified! No race has been wiped because one team cheated, and very often cheating affects the results of races.

Although not cheating, In Canada 04 Williams and Toyota were removed from the results due to technical infringements. They were point scorers and their participation in the race affected the outcome. But they were simply removed from the results and others moved up in point places. The race was not wiped. Similar Imola 05. Button out, but race results still stood.

IMO Singapore was not race fixing. Race fixing would be all the teams or Stewards orchestrating the race to create a predetermined result. This was just one team doing some creative cheating for their own advantage. No different to taking out an opponent or using an illegal car. There was no guarantee that Alonso would win, so the race was not rigged. Renault took a gamble by cheating and it paid off (for about 12 months at least). The only thing being wiped should be Renault's win.
Buttoneer
QUOTE (big x @ Oct 5 2009, 17:41) *
I read the whole thread and kudos to you is due

The naivety of bradleyl (ex-Renault press officer) was breathtaking !

This is my very favourite post of all time.
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