Totally.

You can't race that freakshow.

It's all about publicity anyway.

Did you even read Robin Miller's interview?

First it was designed by some of the very brightest in AOWR. Understeer WONT be an issue because it weighs HALF of the current car. Just because it looks weird to us doesn't make it wrong. I.E. Sharkfin. Plus who knows it might have a DDD under the front. Not the prettiest thing but I also was "never" gonna like the change to F1. Still not my fav but I got over it. With Hoosier blood pumping through my veins I'll have to agree with Robin Miller. IMS needs to get their head outta their ass and fix things. A new and unique car would be a good start. New looks and a new power plant. Ugliest sounding Honda maybe ever!

Yep.

Still a giant waste of energy IMO.

Why can't you race it? How did you come to the conclusion that it's all a giant unworkable publicity stunt?

Because they look utterly ridiculous.

I want to watch open wheel racing.

Not some Batmobile.

Sorry!

Oh, it's because you think they look silly. Indycar somehow survived shifting to rear-engined turbos as well.

I'm sorry I agree with Potmotr here, I'm a fan of car racing and that is more Batmobile/ Spacecraft than it is Racing Car.

Surely wheel to wheel racing would be rather difficult in this car.

As a concept, I think it's great. I hope they built a working version and take it around a few circuits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rah0RSIEVC8...e=youtube_gdata

here's rFactor of the batmobile in action. Looks like you can be a lot more aggressive in this thing. And almost in time for Sato!

In Miller's full interview it was explained that downforce comes from the floor. It's growing on me...

Well, one thing is for sure, if it fails it's gonna fail spectacularly.. because there's no turning back from that monster.

"Oh, we just thought we'd try the Batmobile, and we found out a regular racing car is a better racing car afterall."

I still question the narrow front track from a mechanical point of view. Plus it makes it look a bit like a tricycle. Aerodynamically it's probably the best solution for good racing.

Unless you are an accomplished automotive engineer you probably don't have a valid opinion on the car's engineering validity. And disregarding it technically merely on the basis that it looks like the bat mobile is like saying you wont use a kettle because it reminds you of a vacuum cleaner.

That said and not being a being an automotive engineer I would also be concerned by the geometry of the the wheels and their proximity to the bodywork. The car IMO would only be capable of performing anywhere near current IRL cars on ovals. A car with such a narrow front track could not handle a road course. The mismatch between the weight transfer of the front vs the back would be so big that the car would just understeer in most instances of harsh cornering, even with the same size front tyres the front track being narrowed so much is effectively reducing their mechanical grip by a large factor. Front suspension travel would also be comparatively non existent compunding matters. At least there'd be a monetary saving on front anti roll bars.

It can't possibly get chosen. If there actually is some sort of war brewing between the teams and the league, the fans just cast their vote for who they favor.

From what I've read on Twitter, here, and the SpeedTV forums, it looks like it's about 10 not in favor to each person in favor. Surely those around the series have seen the backlash around the internet (and we do know that some people do read the forums and blogs and whatnot) and know that this would be a hugely unpopular choice.

BTW, did a picture of Lola's prototype ever show up? I missed the announcement.

That Deltawing...er..car? It's such a stupid looking thing, like a faux-futuristic jet plane on wheels. Thus, I absolutely love it.

I can't picture the sort of racing it would produce but a field of those Batmobile things would make for an interesting Indy 500. Potentially revolutionary, probably hilarious, but definitely interesting.

Can't be bothered back reading but guessing comments are about 'Delta Wing'.
What a horrible looking piece of crap!
Swifts effort is only marginally better and here I was thinking the present effort raced was finally going to be replaced by something worth looking at.

That rFactor video probably has the model to show how it looks on track but not really the handling or downforce etc. You don't just plant a model in rF and have it calculate the downforce/wake/driveability/etc. You gotta have data and have a modder know what he's doing (I doubt this, they also took a horribly old version of the Indy-track to showcase it. Mid-ohio track is great). Given the weird car wheelbase aero and crap it´s not even sure if rF supports that type of `car` and have it be driveable.

In short: That vid shows how it would look (ie ridiculous), but not at all how it would drive. I don´t doubt it will drive ok being designed by the group of people that designed it, but that is not an Indy car thats for sure

I can just picture that rudder getting into a fence. It would slice it open like string through cheese.
Yikes.
Honestly, if this thing was worth racing, it would have been done years ago when the first lake cars were out there.
Reminds me of the six wheel ELF, doable, but not sensible...

And.... if they don´t choose it half their competitors might walk away and split off. Rock, meet hard place
But maybe logic will prevail and get a compromise if thats the case (ie Indy not choosing Delta), but well logic and AOWR don´t go hand in hand very often

Blimey! I never thought I'd see the day when the Bond Bug would be revived:

There's a difference between logic and you getting what you want.

Also, this is the only proposal that comes out and says it's against the idea of a spec series. Any serious racing fan should be behind the Delta Wing project for that reason alone.

I like it. Looks like an interesting way to address a number of issues with the current car. More importantly, I like that it was designed as a platform and the concept was not intended to be used as a single-source spec car for the series.

Madness, that car would be completely unstable.

So my question is this; what the heck do we do now? We've got 4 companies and (thus far) 7 concepts (some yet to come from Lola) and we have no idea if any of them do what they're supposed to. Does the league get each company to produce a car or two to see how it runs? Or will it just be down to a panel to pick 1 from the several?

I can't find one...

I just showed the Delta Wing car to a friend who doesn't really follow racing. His response: "Uhhh, no. It looks stupid. It looks like a giant dildo."

With the mass and downforce shifted greatly rearward in this design, wouldn't that negate the potential for understeer with the narrow front track?

Pretty much.

You guys know damn well that people *will* watch these cars race. Even if out of plain curiosity. And then if the racing is actually good, people might start to get swayed.....

I'll bite.
Like the shedding of weight.
That's is a *lot* of weight to shed though.
Like the engine formula.
4 L turbo screamers.
Nothing wrong there, I seem to remember some Renaults with that basis that were pretty scary. Lots of manufacturers can do those.
But seriously, the narrow track and enclosed wheels does not equal 'Open Wheel Racing' which Indy has been throughout it's history.
Mr Bowlby, try to convince Le Mans of that Formula, but that isn't an Indy Car, sorry.

Not narrow track but..enclosed wheels have been done at Indy

Odd Indy cars..??

Smokey Yunick "sidepod"

Close but, check the rears...
Now that you bring it up though, some of the other concepts are somewhat enclosed, it's the narrow track and the fully bubble fender rear that puts me off.
The uhh...rudder...Whiskey Tango Foxtrot...

Don't get me wrong..I am not saying I like or understand the Delta Wing..

Indy is dying..there has been more interest today than in any recent time..and because of the weird (to me) design..

Maybe a shorter version for an Indy Lights league first. These are supposedly cheap to build and run..and would make a previously dormant feeder series very interesting to watch..

I'd prefer to see a mix of these an the others..
Don't know how that'll work..given the weight of the Delta versus the others..but if given the specs for a 1100 lb/300/400HP perhaps we got something interesting..

Going with spec cars..with mildly changed looks and spec..

Indy=Dead

I suspect that the delta concept wouldnt be competative with a car with the standard wide track, all things being equal... but i might be wrong. more likely the rules would change so other designs would be along similer lines to the delta concept

Terminal understeer. Terminal understeer. Terminal understeer.
Given that the modern method is to brake all the way into the apex of the corner, turn in will be a nightmare. I suppose you might get away with it on the high speed oval where you run flat out from beginning to end. On any other type, where you have to brake into the corner, the problem which saw all narrow front track cars off the market, was their tendency to fall over if braking while turning. Now the Bug, with a top speed of about 65, and a grip level somewhere in the region of 0.3G, the effect was not generally lethal, disconcerting, yes; but singlehanded one could pick the car up and set it back on its wheels.

If this design is involved in a launching itself off the car in front accident, it won't stop flying until it reaches the next state, having first penetrated the catch fencing and speared a few spectators. Send it to Bonneville where it belongs.

it looks like a trike
must be unstable, and really bad outside ovals!?

You can tell all that from one photo?

It's totally because they look silly!

Racing cars should look like racing cars.

Not like the props lot at Universal Studios!

Lola must be laughing into their hats about now, having seen some of the 'concepts' that the other manufacturers have devoted their resources to.....

Racing cars always look weird when they are first released. And fairly quickly they make old cars and other series look a bit ancient.

Which is entirely subjective.

I'm willing to give this a shot. My first reaction was the same as most of yours, but I know I resent new and different things, but they grow on me after a while. And who am I to say this is not the future for open-wheel (heh)? May seem ridiculous now, but maybe in 10 years or so...

And something tells me that if and when the DeltaWing is accepted as the new-gen IndyCar, it won't be quite the same as this. This is just the first concept, surely there will be some modifications before 2012. To make the front end less...um... penis-ey, maybe?

As for the looks of it, I'm starting to like the jetfighter-esque appearance. Isn't that what these cars really are? Jets/missiles that drive on the ground?

Reminds me mostly of this, the Blackbird F-171B Spectre:

I have some doubts about the aerodynamic concepts behind the car, but...

What if it is really faster than the current IRL cars with a smaller engine? Just imagine. If they are sure about this, I would advise them: built the car. Take it to Indy and a roadcourse. Let engineers check the engine and soforth. And go for it, set some laptimes. It would be a blast if a 2000 cc car would be faster than a 3000 cc one. And I would be utterly convinced.

Sure is, but we're conditioned to a certain look of racing car which is low and wide not long and skinny.

i appreciate that, but there's 'weird' and there's 'omfg, what the hell's THAT?!?!'-weird.....Don't get me wrong, i have a lot of time for Ben Bowlby, he's been an innovative designer who's produced some excellent machines to some pretty tight regulations for a long time and he's had a fair degree of success with them, but this design worries me greatly - would you see this racing in a non-spec series against 'conventional' cars?....the conception and introduction of the NASCAR CoT is a great parallel to the dilemma that Indycar faces, but i'm a firm believer that you have to evolve to make progress, not throw the baby out with the bathwater. We've seen a very mixed reaction to this proposal and, while i'll happily acknowledge that this is a concept design, and the great majority of concept designs are 'watered down' by the time they reach fruition, i fear that this car would alienate a great deal of the current 'fans' (and make no mistake, i still believe that a healthy indycar series, with the Indy 500 at its heart has all of the ingredients to recapture its heyday in the 90s, where it was a real rival to F1).




(edited to add) ps - i noticed a quote earlier in the thread where they say something along the lines of 'you can double the downforce of the car by adding a wicker bill to the rear'.....think about that for a second......double the downforce with a wicker bill? Doesn't sound like it's ripe for 'fine tuning'.....wanna stick a young gun driver in one of these without experience at somewhere like Indy?

Curt Cavin of the Indy Star writes about the unveiling:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20100211/S...brows-questions

Neil