QUOTE (Rob G @ Nov 10 2009, 19:45) 
You could add Gateway to the list as well.
You are absolutely right about that!
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You are absolutely right about that!
Speed's Marshall Pruett talks to Indy Car competition director Tony Cotman.
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/ind...th-tony-cotman/
On the new car:
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/ind...th-tony-cotman/
On the new car:
QUOTE
The topic of the next IndyCar is something close to Cotman’s heart. While the final design specs are reportedly still a ways away from being cast, answers to those questions should be decided in the next few weeks, with an announcement expected soon after.
“It’s not too far off; before the end of this year. We’re talking about a car for 2012, not 2011. It’s tough to balance the need for a new car with the financial realities everyone is facing right now, but I’m convinced that if you’re smart enough when you go about doing the new vehicle, it will be affordable to all.
“And there are certainly a lot of different variables to decide on. Internally, we’ve discussed a hundred different concepts, and we all have our own ideas. One engine type or multiple? One chassis manufacturer or multiple? I can tell you my ideas are not necessarily everybody else’s, but regardless, we need to put our stake in the ground, to say this is what we’re doing and where we’re going, and hope people come along with us. It’s got to happen. It must happen for IndyCar to move forward. We can only beat around with these current cars for so long. We’ve got to appeal to a new audience and with a new car, it should mix things up a bit.”
After noting that the current IndyCar is so old, it’s only a few years away from being eligible for most vintage racing events, Tony laughed at my description of the long overdue new car as the ‘Indy CoT.’ I’ve heard the Indy ‘Car of Tomorrow’ could be as radical a departure for fans of open-wheel as the NASCAR CoT was for Cup fans, but Cotman cautions that no matter what the Indy CoT looks like or how much it helps to level the playing field, the big teams will eventually return to their familiar place atop the series.
“I guarantee you if we talk two or three years after the new car comes out, we’ll be talking about the same teams dominating. They’ve built quality organizations and that’s why they win year after year. A new car doesn’t change that fact. It’s up to everybody to catch up.”
Hopes for the new car to debut in 2011 have been abandoned, and despite everyone understanding how badly the IndyCar Series needs new lifeblood, delaying the car until 2012 should ease the financial burden for all of the current entrants. With the economy still less than firm, giving teams extra time to save money for the Indy CoT should make the transition easier to navigate.
“The biggest thing is just to tell people it’s coming. If you give teams a few years to prepare – give them three years in this case – to get ready for the financial needs to move to a new car, that’s all they’re asking for. You don’t want to lose half the field because you’ve rushed a new car into production and then expect everyone to find the cash to buy new cars in three months notice, or whatever. If we did that and lost three teams – say six drivers – you’d be looking back and saying we should have stayed with the old cars we had.
“I want a new car worse than anybody, but I’m realistic to know that if we did it for 2010 or 2011, we’d be done.”
“It’s not too far off; before the end of this year. We’re talking about a car for 2012, not 2011. It’s tough to balance the need for a new car with the financial realities everyone is facing right now, but I’m convinced that if you’re smart enough when you go about doing the new vehicle, it will be affordable to all.
“And there are certainly a lot of different variables to decide on. Internally, we’ve discussed a hundred different concepts, and we all have our own ideas. One engine type or multiple? One chassis manufacturer or multiple? I can tell you my ideas are not necessarily everybody else’s, but regardless, we need to put our stake in the ground, to say this is what we’re doing and where we’re going, and hope people come along with us. It’s got to happen. It must happen for IndyCar to move forward. We can only beat around with these current cars for so long. We’ve got to appeal to a new audience and with a new car, it should mix things up a bit.”
After noting that the current IndyCar is so old, it’s only a few years away from being eligible for most vintage racing events, Tony laughed at my description of the long overdue new car as the ‘Indy CoT.’ I’ve heard the Indy ‘Car of Tomorrow’ could be as radical a departure for fans of open-wheel as the NASCAR CoT was for Cup fans, but Cotman cautions that no matter what the Indy CoT looks like or how much it helps to level the playing field, the big teams will eventually return to their familiar place atop the series.
“I guarantee you if we talk two or three years after the new car comes out, we’ll be talking about the same teams dominating. They’ve built quality organizations and that’s why they win year after year. A new car doesn’t change that fact. It’s up to everybody to catch up.”
Hopes for the new car to debut in 2011 have been abandoned, and despite everyone understanding how badly the IndyCar Series needs new lifeblood, delaying the car until 2012 should ease the financial burden for all of the current entrants. With the economy still less than firm, giving teams extra time to save money for the Indy CoT should make the transition easier to navigate.
“The biggest thing is just to tell people it’s coming. If you give teams a few years to prepare – give them three years in this case – to get ready for the financial needs to move to a new car, that’s all they’re asking for. You don’t want to lose half the field because you’ve rushed a new car into production and then expect everyone to find the cash to buy new cars in three months notice, or whatever. If we did that and lost three teams – say six drivers – you’d be looking back and saying we should have stayed with the old cars we had.
“I want a new car worse than anybody, but I’m realistic to know that if we did it for 2010 or 2011, we’d be done.”
QUOTE (red stick @ Nov 11 2009, 16:09)
“I guarantee you if we talk two or three years after the new car comes out, we’ll be talking about the same teams dominating. They’ve built quality organizations and that’s why they win year after year. A new car doesn’t change that fact. It’s up to everybody to catch up.”
Is that an argument for an open chassis formula? One of the reasons Chip Ganassi and Team Green were able to catch up to the dominant Penske and Newman-Haas outfits was the entry of the Reynard chassis to the market. Same with Newman-Haas and Doug Shierson with the Lola.
A financially independent IRL can rid itself of the shackles of Dallara-Honda subsidies, and open up competition to smaller, more adaptable chassis and engine designers. The lack of a commitment on this part suggests that Cotman knows Indycar has a long way to go, despite Izod sponsorship.
QUOTE (jeze @ Nov 9 2009, 18:49)
How would you like to have the line-ups for next year? I'd go for something like this, also including teams I wish will be able to start next season.
Chip Ganassi Racing
Dixon
Franchitti
(Marlboro) Team Penske
Briscoe
Power
Castroneves
Andretti Green Racing
Kanaan
Patrick
Andretti
Hunter-Reay (Mutoh let go by Honda to finance a RLR Indy programme for '10) Izod takes over as a sponsor for that car.
Newman/Haas/Lanigan Racing
Rahal
Lloyd
KV Racing Technology
Moraes
Tracy (Oh, how I wish)
Rahal Letterman Racing
Mutoh
Summerton (young US driver makes sense)
HVM Racing
Doornbos
Hildebrand (temporarily released from AGR)
Vision
Carpenter
Junqueira (brought in to strengthen road course form)
Panther
Wheldon
(some other for Indy)
Dreyer & Reinbold
Scheckter
Conway
Dale Coyne
Wilson
Carroll (why not?)
Luczo-Dragon Racing
Matos
A.J. Foyt Enterprises
Meira
Servià
(Two cars form them would be great).
3G Racing
Antinucci
Fisher Racing
Fisher (part time)
Howard (part-time)
FAZZT Race Team
Tagliani
In a perfect world, we could have 29 cars full-time! Although that's not likely, I still think 25 is not too unrealistic. US Open Wheel is on its way back!
Chip Ganassi Racing
Dixon
Franchitti
(Marlboro) Team Penske
Briscoe
Power
Castroneves
Andretti Green Racing
Kanaan
Patrick
Andretti
Hunter-Reay (Mutoh let go by Honda to finance a RLR Indy programme for '10) Izod takes over as a sponsor for that car.
Newman/Haas/Lanigan Racing
Rahal
Lloyd
KV Racing Technology
Moraes
Tracy (Oh, how I wish)
Rahal Letterman Racing
Mutoh
Summerton (young US driver makes sense)
HVM Racing
Doornbos
Hildebrand (temporarily released from AGR)
Vision
Carpenter
Junqueira (brought in to strengthen road course form)
Panther
Wheldon
(some other for Indy)
Dreyer & Reinbold
Scheckter
Conway
Dale Coyne
Wilson
Carroll (why not?)
Luczo-Dragon Racing
Matos
A.J. Foyt Enterprises
Meira
Servià
(Two cars form them would be great).
3G Racing
Antinucci
Fisher Racing
Fisher (part time)
Howard (part-time)
FAZZT Race Team
Tagliani
In a perfect world, we could have 29 cars full-time! Although that's not likely, I still think 25 is not too unrealistic. US Open Wheel is on its way back!
I think I'd rather have Servia at N/H/L, either as a third driver or as a teammate to Rahal. He really seemed to fit in well at that team and Rahal could really use an experienced teammate.
And how likely is it that Rahal/Letterman, Vision and 3G will be on the grid at all next year?
QUOTE (Aquarius @ Nov 12 2009, 04:06)
I think I'd rather have Servia at N/H/L, either as a third driver or as a teammate to Rahal. He really seemed to fit in well at that team and Rahal could really use an experienced teammate.
And how likely is it that Rahal/Letterman, Vision and 3G will be on the grid at all next year?
And how likely is it that Rahal/Letterman, Vision and 3G will be on the grid at all next year?
The Curt Cavin suggested when asked upon that, he suggested that he was quite sure that Vision and 3G would take part full-time. As for RLR, it's quite clear that they want a full-time programme if finance can be raised. If AGR would withdraw their Honda-paid seat for Hideki Mutoh, he could very well end up in a Formula Dream RLR car.
I believe it wise for the IndyCar Series not to depend on ISC-owned tracks to make up the bulk of their schedule. ISC doesn't want to see the series become even remotely popular & successful hence their lack of promoting the races. I look for Kansas to be gone after 2010 with then only Watkins Glen, Homestead & Chicagoland remaining as ISC-owned events on the ICS schedule. Sadly, ISC owns some of the best ovals but too many ISC-owned tracks are D-shaped 1-1/2 mile 18-24-degree banked ovals and I don't want a schedule heavy with that either. Outside of The Glen, Homestead & Chicago the only ISC-owned tracks I would really like to see return are Michigan and Phoenix and both of those are a long shot at best. There are several non-ISC owned ovals that deserve a strong consideration, namely Milwaukee, Las Vegas and New Hampshire.
I think it's a big shot in the arm for the series with the signing of IZOD. Here's a very successful corporation who's very in tune with marketing who will maximize their investment in bringing the IndyCar Series to mainstream America. The advertising & marketing potential alone makes this a good deal for the ICS even if no money were to have traded hands. IZOD already had Rahal & RHR at a celebrity golf tournament in LA Tuesday (Joe Pesci was RHR's partner). Now that the series has a legitimate title sponsor they can start focusing on addressing the other issues facing and holding the series back, namely opening up the rules for more innovation & experimentation for multiple suppliers.
I believe just now in middle November there are already 22 confirmed cars and 19 confirmed drivers for next season. Early indications appear to likely have an average of at least 24 cars at most races and possibly 26+ at several ovals.
I think it's a big shot in the arm for the series with the signing of IZOD. Here's a very successful corporation who's very in tune with marketing who will maximize their investment in bringing the IndyCar Series to mainstream America. The advertising & marketing potential alone makes this a good deal for the ICS even if no money were to have traded hands. IZOD already had Rahal & RHR at a celebrity golf tournament in LA Tuesday (Joe Pesci was RHR's partner). Now that the series has a legitimate title sponsor they can start focusing on addressing the other issues facing and holding the series back, namely opening up the rules for more innovation & experimentation for multiple suppliers.
I believe just now in middle November there are already 22 confirmed cars and 19 confirmed drivers for next season. Early indications appear to likely have an average of at least 24 cars at most races and possibly 26+ at several ovals.
QUOTE (indyracefan @ Nov 13 2009, 00:08)
I believe it wise for the IndyCar Series not to depend on ISC-owned tracks to make up the bulk of their schedule. ISC doesn't want to see the series become even remotely popular & successful hence their lack of promoting the races. I look for Kansas to be gone after 2010 with then only Watkins Glen, Homestead & Chicagoland remaining as ISC-owned events on the ICS schedule. Sadly, ISC owns some of the best ovals but too many ISC-owned tracks are D-shaped 1-1/2 mile 18-24-degree banked ovals and I don't want a schedule heavy with that either. Outside of The Glen, Homestead & Chicago the only ISC-owned tracks I would really like to see return are Michigan and Phoenix and both of those are a long shot at best. There are several non-ISC owned ovals that deserve a strong consideration, namely Milwaukee, Las Vegas and New Hampshire.
New Hampshire was always fantastic, like Milwaukee. I was never crazy about the racing Phoenix provided, but it was definitely a big challenge for the drivers and crews. The racing on the 1.5-mile ovals is just dangerous -- I haven't seen anything that suggests another wheel-over-wheel accident like Kenny Brack's in 2003 isn't possible. If that occurred near the stands, no one would sanction an Indy-type race ever again. Plus, flat-out side-by-side racing isn't exactly thrilling, you might as well watch drag racing, they go a lot quicker and sound a hell of a lot better (that's a separate problem, though, Texas is the worst offender and is owned by the would-be Frances, Bruton and Humpy). I'd like a completely different aero/engine package for 2012, one that fundamentally changes how Indycars go racing on the ovals. Braking would be nice.
In terms of opening up the rules, there was an interesting interview on Motomatters.com with Peter Clifford, head of the WCM operation and last of the real MotoGP privateers.
QUOTE
It's very difficult to legislate against expense. I mean as I think we were saying the other day, the first thing that happens is it's expensive to build a new engine to comply and then it's even more expensive to work around the regulations, so that the simpler the regulations the cheaper it basically is.
So, now that we're two years underway into the new era with a new title sponsorship deal in place, what's your take on the last two years and the directkion IndyCar has taken since becoming the sole top-level US single-seater series?
The good thing in my opinion is that it adjusted the aero settings, when it became quite clear that all oval races were on their way into becoming processions. Those changes made both Kentucky and Chicagoland crackers, but Motegi and Homestead don't lend themselves to such racing. At Kansas next year, we'll see whether they work in the long-term. I like the idea of a powerboost as well, it could help for overtaking on road courses as well, given its limited usage.
The bad thing is the lack of Champ Car teams that have survived. In 2009, only Newman/Haas, Coyne, KV and HVM have recent experience from Champ Car, while lots of other squads have folded. The merger was necessary, but it could've been handled better. As it was, already troubled Champ Car teams were left without the additional revenue good results lead to, and ulitmately that caused teams such as Forsythe and Walker not even to pursue an IndyCar programme. The grid is pretty decent, given the recession, and I reckon it will expand in further years to come.
Another thing that could have been handled better is the balance of the calendar. Apparentky has IndyCar's relationship to the ISC broken down completely, hence the end of the long-term open wheel-era at Michigan. That was however, before the merger, but signs are worrying that the IRL is completely forgetting its roots, with no small ovals (except for Iowa) included for 2010, and in the longer run the decision to deprive New Hampshire the chance to be a host of a 200-lap race in 2010, be the sign of an IndyCar with only superspeedways among its ovals.
As for the inclusion of road course-races, I have to say that nine feels enough (unless a couple of ovals are added as well). The balance should be strived to assure that the calendar should contain as close to 50-50 as possible in terms of ovals contra road/street races. The inclusion of Brazil for next year is a great move, since IndyCar has relied among lots of Brazilian talent in the latest 20 years, and the fan base should be large there. The decision to host a race in Alabama is a strange one, and I don't really get why. I do believe IndyCars could have a larger audience at a place like Portland for example.
The commercial decisions then? I think the IZOD deal is not only the best thing that has happened to USOW racing since the merger, but in terms of value it is the best deal cut by any organizer of Indy-style racing ever. I'm really optimistic for the future, and I really hope the new car is something revolutionary on the environmental theme, so the series can carve its own niche in the American sporting society.
I would love to see your opinions on what the series has become, and what you think about for the future!
The good thing in my opinion is that it adjusted the aero settings, when it became quite clear that all oval races were on their way into becoming processions. Those changes made both Kentucky and Chicagoland crackers, but Motegi and Homestead don't lend themselves to such racing. At Kansas next year, we'll see whether they work in the long-term. I like the idea of a powerboost as well, it could help for overtaking on road courses as well, given its limited usage.
The bad thing is the lack of Champ Car teams that have survived. In 2009, only Newman/Haas, Coyne, KV and HVM have recent experience from Champ Car, while lots of other squads have folded. The merger was necessary, but it could've been handled better. As it was, already troubled Champ Car teams were left without the additional revenue good results lead to, and ulitmately that caused teams such as Forsythe and Walker not even to pursue an IndyCar programme. The grid is pretty decent, given the recession, and I reckon it will expand in further years to come.
Another thing that could have been handled better is the balance of the calendar. Apparentky has IndyCar's relationship to the ISC broken down completely, hence the end of the long-term open wheel-era at Michigan. That was however, before the merger, but signs are worrying that the IRL is completely forgetting its roots, with no small ovals (except for Iowa) included for 2010, and in the longer run the decision to deprive New Hampshire the chance to be a host of a 200-lap race in 2010, be the sign of an IndyCar with only superspeedways among its ovals.
As for the inclusion of road course-races, I have to say that nine feels enough (unless a couple of ovals are added as well). The balance should be strived to assure that the calendar should contain as close to 50-50 as possible in terms of ovals contra road/street races. The inclusion of Brazil for next year is a great move, since IndyCar has relied among lots of Brazilian talent in the latest 20 years, and the fan base should be large there. The decision to host a race in Alabama is a strange one, and I don't really get why. I do believe IndyCars could have a larger audience at a place like Portland for example.
The commercial decisions then? I think the IZOD deal is not only the best thing that has happened to USOW racing since the merger, but in terms of value it is the best deal cut by any organizer of Indy-style racing ever. I'm really optimistic for the future, and I really hope the new car is something revolutionary on the environmental theme, so the series can carve its own niche in the American sporting society.
I would love to see your opinions on what the series has become, and what you think about for the future!
QUOTE (jeze @ Nov 15 2009, 09:12)
So, now that we're two years underway into the new era with a new title sponsorship deal in place, what's your take on the last two years and the direction IndyCar has taken since becoming the sole top-level US single-seater series?
The good thing in my opinion is that it adjusted the aero settings, when it became quite clear that all oval races were on their way into becoming processions. Those changes made both Kentucky and Chicagoland crackers, but Motegi and Homestead don't lend themselves to such racing. At Kansas next year, we'll see whether they work in the long-term. I like the idea of a powerboost as well, it could help for overtaking on road courses as well, given its limited usage.
The good thing in my opinion is that it adjusted the aero settings, when it became quite clear that all oval races were on their way into becoming processions. Those changes made both Kentucky and Chicagoland crackers, but Motegi and Homestead don't lend themselves to such racing. At Kansas next year, we'll see whether they work in the long-term. I like the idea of a powerboost as well, it could help for overtaking on road courses as well, given its limited usage.
This is an ever-moving target, as noted by Tony Cotman in the Speed article I referenced earlier, but it's good to know that the powers-that-be are are thinking about ways to improve the racing. QUOTE
The bad thing is the lack of Champ Car teams that have survived. In 2009, only Newman/Haas, Coyne, KV and HVM have recent experience from Champ Car, while lots of other squads have folded. The merger was necessary, but it could've been handled better. As it was, already troubled Champ Car teams were left without the additional revenue good results lead to, and ulitmately that caused teams such as Forsythe and Walker not even to pursue an IndyCar programme. The grid is pretty decent, given the recession, and I reckon it will expand in further years to come.
I think the Champ Car teams that wanted to move moved, and those that did not had other reasons aside from those you stated. I don't know what IndyCar could have done to attract Forsythe, and I'm not convinced he knows either. Walker, IIRC, was mostly done in by his business partner, not by IndyCar. And launching the whole thing in the face of this recession helped nobody. All things considered, we should be thrilled the field is as large as it is.
QUOTE
Another thing that could have been handled better is the balance of the calendar. Apparently has IndyCar's relationship to the ISC broken down completely, hence the end of the long-term open wheel-era at Michigan. That was however, before the merger, but signs are worrying that the IRL is completely forgetting its roots, with no small ovals (except for Iowa) included for 2010, and in the longer run the decision to deprive New Hampshire the chance to be a host of a 200-lap race in 2010, be the sign of an IndyCar with only superspeedways among its ovals.
ISC, and NASCAR, have no interest in helping any other racing series. They'd kill both IndyCar and ALMS if they could. Better to find tracks that have an interest in open-wheel. That said, I'd like to see more short ovals too. Perhaps in a few years as the contracts with current races run out we'll see a slightly different schedule along the lines you describe.
QUOTE
As for the inclusion of road course-races, I have to say that nine feels enough (unless a couple of ovals are added as well). The balance should be strived to assure that the calendar should contain as close to 50-50 as possible in terms of ovals contra road/street races. The inclusion of Brazil for next year is a great move, since IndyCar has relied among lots of Brazilian talent in the latest 20 years, and the fan base should be large there. The decision to host a race in Alabama is a strange one, and I don't really get why. I do believe IndyCars could have a larger audience at a place like Portland for example.
A 50/50 split sounds about right. Has Brazil been confirmed?
To understand the Alabama race, you have to know that 10,000 people showed up to see Spring practice at that facility. I applaud IndyCar for rewarding a new market that shows that kind of interest, and have already ordered tickets for the race. (the fact that it's the closest IndyCar comes to my area has nothing to do with anything.)
QUOTE
The commercial decisions then? I think the IZOD deal is not only the best thing that has happened to USOW racing since the merger, but in terms of value it is the best deal cut by any organizer of Indy-style racing ever. I'm really optimistic for the future, and I really hope the new car is something revolutionary on the environmental theme, so the series can carve its own niche in the American sporting society.
I would love to see your opinions on what the series has become, and what you think about for the future!
I would love to see your opinions on what the series has become, and what you think about for the future!
I like the early moves that IZOD has made and hope this works for IndyCar. I'm skeptical about the new car doing something revolutionary om the environmental theme--the ALMS is already trying that, with no notable success, and it smacks of us-tooism. I'm with DeFerran as quoted recently by both Gordon Kirby and Robin Miller--I think IndyCar should focus on having the fastest, most bad-ass cars on four wheels, and the rest will take care of itself.
QUOTE (red stick @ Nov 15 2009, 17:17)
This is an ever-moving target, as noted by Tony Cotman in the Speed article I referenced earlier, but it's good to know that the powers-that-be are are thinking about ways to improve the racing. I think the Champ Car teams that wanted to move moved, and those that did not had other reasons aside from those you stated. I don't know what IndyCar could have done to attract Forsythe, and I'm not convinced he knows either. Walker, IIRC, was mostly done in by his business partner, not by IndyCar. And launching the whole thing in the face of this recession helped nobody. All things considered, we should be thrilled the field is as large as it is.
ISC, and NASCAR, have no interest in helping any other racing series. They'd kill both IndyCar and ALMS if they could. Better to find tracks that have an interest in open-wheel. That said, I'd like to see more short ovals too. Perhaps in a few years as the contracts with current races run out we'll see a slightly different schedule along the lines you describe.
A 50/50 split sounds about right. Has Brazil been confirmed?
To understand the Alabama race, you have to know that 10,000 people showed up to see Spring practice at that facility. I applaud IndyCar for rewarding a new market that shows that kind of interest, and have already ordered tickets for the race. (the fact that it's the closest IndyCar comes to my area has nothing to do with anything.)
I like the early moves that IZOD has made and hope this works for IndyCar. I'm skeptical about the new car doing something revolutionary om the environmental theme--the ALMS is already trying that, with no notable success, and it smacks of us-tooism. I'm with DeFerran as quoted recently by both Gordon Kirby and Robin Miller--I think IndyCar should focus on having the fastest, most bad-ass cars on four wheels, and the rest will take care of itself.
1, It is, since the teams are smart cookies, and they quickly figure out ways to circumvene the targets. It's good that it isn't like the 2003 rules, when Chicagoland turned into a wild ride, that very well could have ended in disaster.
2, I can imagine that Mr. Forsythe is bitter. First he lost Greg Moore, then he lost Player's, and then he loses power. It's still a shame having a potentially well-financed squad with a high reputation outside of IndyCar, but that's life. I agree about the grid size, it looked a lot worse this spring, at a point where it was almost down to 2007 levels.
3, I know the ISC hates IndyCar, but it could still get revenue on it. I hope for a new independent part to buy some of the ISC tracks, to soften its strangehold on US oval raceing. The problem is that it's subsidizing all new facilities at the moment, and that's no good. That New Hampshire was ignored was therefore, nothing short of a disaster. Glad to see that Cleveland isn't included, arguably the most overrated course in the world.
4, Brazil is confirmed as the 2010 opener, but the venue is yet not confirmed/disclosed as per today. However, the commercial boss of IndyCar (I lost his name) confirmed to Autosport, that it stands between Rio de Janeiro and Salvador, and though Rio is the favourite, I can't speak for how committed city officials are when they have to spend that much money on the Olympics. The name of the race? I'd guess Apex Brazil Indy Grand Prix, but we'll see!
5, The car should make for some great racing, and that's the most important. I'd like to see a car that is able to continue racing on Texas, I think that should be the benchmark of how fast it should be. If the racing is great, and the drivers battling it out are American (let's keep our fingers crossed for the Team USA scholarship scheme), the fans will come.
QUOTE (jeze @ Nov 15 2009, 16:53)
3, I know the ISC hates IndyCar, but it could still get revenue on it. I hope for a new independent part to buy some of the ISC tracks, to soften its strangehold on US oval raceing. The problem is that it's subsidizing all new facilities at the moment, and that's no good. That New Hampshire was ignored was therefore, nothing short of a disaster. Glad to see that Cleveland isn't included, arguably the most overrated course in the world.
ISC is NASCAR. Any revenue it gains from patronising Indycar, is taken away by the interest thereby diverted from the stock cars. It simply makes no sense for ISC to do anything other than squish Indycar racing into the ground, and the IRL have to realise this.
Have to disagree with you about Cleveland; it's not a panacea for open-wheel's wide-ranging problems, and it's not the greatest challenge on the circuit, but the Turn 1 through Turn 5 complex is THE best place for road course racing in existence. I agree that at some point we have to stop trying to recreate CART-which-was-taken-from-us-too-soon, but if the city of Cleveland's up for it, this could be a winner.
QUOTE (jeze @ Nov 15 2009, 16:53)
5, The car should make for some great racing, and that's the most important. I'd like to see a car that is able to continue racing on Texas, I think that should be the benchmark of how fast it should be. If the racing is great, and the drivers battling it out are American (let's keep our fingers crossed for the Team USA scholarship scheme), the fans will come.
I'd say the most important thing is that it provides competition -- that's what brings in the fans. You can go down to a weekend late-model race more or less anywhere in America and see more exciting 'racing' between the drivers than you'd get in a full year of Indycars. The new car needs to give fans the impression that they're watching something important, and cutting-edge. What specification that entails, I don't know, but some fire-breathing, small-winged racers that squirm every time the driver puts the power down would be a good start. And open competition amongst manufacturers: the Dallara single-supply contract hasn't brought costs down at all.
Throwing something out there, I always thought the Buick/stock block idea that the Speedway ran with in the '80s and early-'90s had promise, in terms of being a distinctive and American perspective on formula racing. There's still a lot of nostalgia for American engineering, this might be a useful way of focussing in on that, instead of turning the IRL into another F1-lite.
QUOTE (jeze @ Nov 15 2009, 11:53)
Glad to see that Cleveland isn't included, arguably the most overrated course in the world.
You never saw the 1995 Cleveland CART race, did you? There was a lot of incredible action you'd have never seen anywhere else.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNuYvwFkB7A
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=40...grand+prix+1995
QUOTE (Rob G @ Nov 16 2009, 00:20)
You never saw the 1995 Cleveland CART race, did you? There was a lot of incredible action you'd have never seen anywhere else.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNuYvwFkB7A
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=40...grand+prix+1995
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNuYvwFkB7A
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=40...grand+prix+1995
Those races were pretty good, but it still looked flat and featureless on TV, which is why I don't really lkike the place. I know lots of people do, but maybe it's just because I really suck at driving the track in rFactor no matter which car I have!
There are several good and challenging ovals and permanent road-courses throughout North America in which ISC doesn't own the ICS could/should run at. Portland, Road America, Laguna Seca, Milwaukee, Las Vegas, New Hampshire.
QUOTE (red stick @ Nov 15 2009, 08:17)
I'm with DeFerran as quoted recently by both Gordon Kirby and Robin Miller--I think IndyCar should focus on having the fastest, most bad-ass cars on four wheels, and the rest will take care of itself.
Yep, first and foremost, that is what Indycar needs. Why did Indycar take off in the 80s? Badass cars with new speed records. How did CART keep going and expand throughout the 90s? Badass cars that were the meanest beasts in the land.
Just watch a Youtube video of one the old CART races at the Emerson Fittipaldi Speedway down in Rio. Those were bad ass mean machines. The current machines seem tame, lame, and old.
Let F1 pursue tech for tech's sake, but make Indycar be badass.
This morning's Indy Star confirms Power at Penske full-time in 2010:
http://www.indystar.com/article/20091119/S...tay-with-Penske
B²
http://www.indystar.com/article/20091119/S...tay-with-Penske
B²
QUOTE (MattPete @ Nov 17 2009, 00:32)
Just watch a Youtube video of one the old CART races at the defunct Emerson Fittipaldi Speedway down in Rio.
QUOTE (B Squared @ Nov 19 2009, 06:52)
This morning's Indy Star confirms Power at Penske full-time in 2010:
http://www.indystar.com/article/20091119/S...tay-with-Penske
B²
http://www.indystar.com/article/20091119/S...tay-with-Penske
B²
Not unexpected, but good news nevertheless. Good for Will!
QUOTE (Rob G @ Nov 16 2009, 01:20)
You never saw the 1995 Cleveland CART race, did you?
I did...AWESOME
Jp
QUOTE (jonpollak @ Nov 19 2009, 18:45)
I did...AWESOME
Jp
Jp
Did you see Robby Gordon ramming Michael on the cool-down lap, as a means of showing his discontent with Andretti's hard racing? The most extraordinary part of an extraordinary race, and I think it was that moment that made it clear that Robby was NASCAR-bound, unfortunately for all of us.
Didn't Teo Fabi run away from the field until he broke down? It seems funny to think that Forsythe didn't start with Greg Moore, and in fact actually ran non-Canadians at one point...
QUOTE (Risil @ Nov 19 2009, 14:01)
It seems funny to think that Forsythe didn't start with Greg Moore, and in fact actually ran non-Canadians at one point...
Forsythe started in Indy Car with my late friend, Scott Brayton, in 1981 as a sponsor. The $ input allowed the small Brayton Racing team to purchase a Penske PC-7 (replaced a Penske PC-6) between Indy and Milwaukee of that year. The Forsythe brothers went on their own in 1982 with Danny Sullivan and Hector Rebaque as drivers of their March 82C's.
Brian
QUOTE (B Squared @ Nov 19 2009, 19:40)
Forsythe started in Indy Car with my late friend, Scott Brayton, in 1981 as a sponsor. The $ input allowed the small Brayton Racing team to purchase a Penske PC-7 (replaced a Penske PC-6) between Indy and Milwaukee of that year. The Forsythe brothers went on their own in 1982 with Danny Sullivan and Hector Rebaque as drivers of their March 82C's.
Brian
Brian
I was aware that they ran Teo Fabi's first CART venture back in his 1983 Indianapolis run, and that Little Al got his career started there, but I had no idea about Danny. Forsythe to Doug Shierson Racing seemed like a well-trodden path. Incidentally, what was the deal with Hector Rebaque's Road America win that year? I've never been able to find a definitive account of it, but it seems he was just about the only guy running at the finish? Shades of that year's Monaco Grand Prix.
Risil - This account from the Gordon Kirby edited Official PPG Indy Car World Series Annual 1983 which reviewed the 1982 season. It is the most succinct and accurate report that I have close at hand.
Brian
Does anyone know if Power gets a Marlboro car or if he gets another sponsor? Will the Penske Trucks company sponsor another yellow car or not? Does Verizon move its primary sponsorship from the Grand Am-squad to Power's IndyCar?
News of the day from the Indy Star:
http://www.indystar.com/article/20091120/S...sylvania-tunnel
http://www.indystar.com/article/20091120/L...ization-project
B²
http://www.indystar.com/article/20091120/S...sylvania-tunnel
http://www.indystar.com/article/20091120/L...ization-project
B²
QUOTE (jeze @ Nov 20 2009, 06:39)
Does anyone know if Power gets a Marlboro car or if he gets another sponsor? Will the Penske Trucks company sponsor another yellow car or not? Does Verizon move its primary sponsorship from the Grand Am-squad to Power's IndyCar?
See the link to the articles I just posted. Verizon for Power's team. Possibly new colors for the other two cars due to Marlboro cutbacks.
Brian
IndyCar's website has the following story on the Penske/Power signing.
I also am hoping that congratulations are in order for forum contributor Nigel Beresford. He was Will's race engineer last season, I trust that he will be in a similar role with the team in 2010. I certainly hope so and that he will check in on occasion to share his wisdom. Brian
http://www.indycar.com/news/?story_id=15456
I also am hoping that congratulations are in order for forum contributor Nigel Beresford. He was Will's race engineer last season, I trust that he will be in a similar role with the team in 2010. I certainly hope so and that he will check in on occasion to share his wisdom. Brian
http://www.indycar.com/news/?story_id=15456
QUOTE (B Squared @ Nov 20 2009, 11:38)
Risil - This account from the Gordon Kirby edited Official PPG Indy Car World Series Annual 1983 which reviewed the 1982 season. It is the most succinct and accurate report that I have close at hand.
Brian
Brian
Thanks! Seems appropriate that the first Indycar race at Elkhart Lake was dominated by fuel mileage problems, given how the rest of them panned out. Really was quite a smart move CART made to lengthen the race, and ensure that trying to two-stop it would become unviable...
I wonder Roger Penske regrets selling the tracks to ISC.
I doubt Penske has any regrets selling California & Michigan speedways, he sold them at a very opportune time. I would suspect that his recent involvement in the Belle Isle IndyCar race and the economic disaster in Detroit forcing the cancellation of the event only reaffirms his decision.
I've wondered in recent years with the reduction and now outright ban of all tobacco sponsorships why Altria didn't come forth with another brand that could be promoted and marketed through the mainstream media. Target Chip Ganassi Racing and Andretti-Green Racing seems to have done a very good job in it's B2B relationship with rotating associate sponsorship elevated to primary at various events throughout a season.
I've wondered in recent years with the reduction and now outright ban of all tobacco sponsorships why Altria didn't come forth with another brand that could be promoted and marketed through the mainstream media. Target Chip Ganassi Racing and Andretti-Green Racing seems to have done a very good job in it's B2B relationship with rotating associate sponsorship elevated to primary at various events throughout a season.
Has anyone read a blog called "The Indy Idea"?
Linky
The author analyzes the current state of IndyCar and proposes ideas to correct the course. And he paints a rather bleak and depressing picture, but reading his posts, he also seems to be pretty knowledgeable and has some facts, figures and maths to back him up. If anyone has visited the link above, what do you think? Is his picture the true story or does he make things look worse than they actually are?
For example, here's a fairly lengthy post about how the current top teams' sponsorship deals are arranged. Pretty interesting stuff:
IndyCar Arbitrage: The Emerging Strategy
Linky
The author analyzes the current state of IndyCar and proposes ideas to correct the course. And he paints a rather bleak and depressing picture, but reading his posts, he also seems to be pretty knowledgeable and has some facts, figures and maths to back him up. If anyone has visited the link above, what do you think? Is his picture the true story or does he make things look worse than they actually are?
For example, here's a fairly lengthy post about how the current top teams' sponsorship deals are arranged. Pretty interesting stuff:
IndyCar Arbitrage: The Emerging Strategy
Thanks for the link. That's an interesting site, but one that requires a bit of study, more time than I've got today!
QUOTE (Aquarius @ Nov 6 2009, 13:23)
I'm surprised there's so little activity in this thread. I know IndyCar has dropped off many people's radar but still 
To be honest, I'm just so super-uninterested in what the 2010 IndyCar Series will offer. Its gonna basically be 2009 all over again. No major driver changes. No shock announcements of new, high-profile teams. The same old ugly-looking and ugly-sounding cars. Danica's still here.....
The IRL needs a shake-up. 2012 cant come soon enough. And for god's sake, somebody give Justin Wilson a top ride!
Andretti Autosports will rock the establishment!
(I hope)
(I hope)
QUOTE (Seanspeed @ Nov 25 2009, 02:30)
The IRL needs a shake-up. 2012 cant come soon enough. And for god's sake, somebody give Justin Wilson a top ride!
At times last year the racing became interesting, pity it took the introduction of a boost button to make it so. There needs to be more competition, the new sponsors are doing more than most do to try and raise it's profile but even if people notice it again they may be put off again when they find it's nowhere to be watched.
Justin's too old now I think for people to notice him, which is ridiculous as he's obviously up there with the best.
QUOTE (wewantourdarbyback @ Nov 25 2009, 12:48)
Justin's too old now I think for people to notice him, which is ridiculous as he's obviously up there with the best.
Hey, if it could happen to Roberto Moreno, it can happen to Justin.
The Brazil round will be run in Sao Paulo, on a street course.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80336
A large part of me wishes they'd use Interlagos.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80336
A large part of me wishes they'd use Interlagos.
QUOTE (wewantourdarbyback @ Nov 25 2009, 23:55)
The Brazil round will be run in Sao Paulo, on a street course.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80336
A large part of me wishes they'd use Interlagos.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80336
A large part of me wishes they'd use Interlagos.
CART came close to using the perimeter oval for a Brazilian round, until the rise of an A. Senna led Bernie Ecclestone to gazump Interlagos as an F1 venue. Causing Emerson Fittipaldi to turn his attentions to the now-neglected Rio. To my knowledge there haven't been many street courses of note in South America, just the combined autodrome-and-ring-road layout they used to use for the Buenos Aires 1000km race. And that bizarre F3000 race held in the Netherlands Antilles.
I'm ambivalent about street courses, they have the limitless potential to be something different, and against the grain. And occasionally they turn up a really amazing venue. And sometimes they turn up utter disasters. Either extreme is worth a look, IMO.
QUOTE (wewantourdarbyback @ Nov 25 2009, 07:48)
At times last year the racing became interesting, pity it took the introduction of a boost button to make it so. There needs to be more competition, the new sponsors are doing more than most do to try and raise it's profile but even if people notice it again they may be put off again when they find it's nowhere to be watched.
Justin's too old now I think for people to notice him, which is ridiculous as he's obviously up there with the best.
Justin's too old now I think for people to notice him, which is ridiculous as he's obviously up there with the best.
Age doesn't really matter. I dont think a single person in IndyCar hasn't 'noticed' Justin Wilson's talent. Its been a simple lack of funds.
As for the racing, yea, it was good at the end of last season. I dont care how it was acheived, I just like it.
QUOTE (Seanspeed @ Nov 26 2009, 04:32)
Age doesn't really matter. I dont think a single person in IndyCar hasn't 'noticed' Justin Wilson's talent. Its been a simple lack of funds.
As for the racing, yea, it was good at the end of last season. I dont care how it was acheived, I just like it.
As for the racing, yea, it was good at the end of last season. I dont care how it was acheived, I just like it.
Agreed Sean, that was a pretty good season for IRL.
I know you've been less than supportive of DP in the past, but maintaining 5th spot throughout the season, not so bad, eh?
With the introduction of Andretti Autosports, maybe she will continue as the #1 driver for her team.
Maybe if they ran on a few of the same tracks as F1 (Interlagos for example) perhaps they would gain more credibilty.
Oh, hey Sean, nice to see you here. Hope to argue with you some more!
You seem to be a little more toned down, have you lost some of your bravado? hope not.
Cheers!
Madera.
QUOTE (Madera @ Nov 25 2009, 22:58)
Agreed Sean, that was a pretty good season for IRL.
I know you've been less than supportive of DP in the past, but maintaining 5th spot throughout the season, not so bad, eh?
With the introduction of Andretti Autosports, maybe she will continue as the #1 driver for her team.
Maybe if they ran on a few of the same tracks as F1 (Interlagos for example) perhaps they would gain more credibilty.
Oh, hey Sean, nice to see you here. Hope to argue with you some more!
You seem to be a little more toned down, have you lost some of your bravado? hope not.
Cheers!
Madera.
I know you've been less than supportive of DP in the past, but maintaining 5th spot throughout the season, not so bad, eh?
With the introduction of Andretti Autosports, maybe she will continue as the #1 driver for her team.
Maybe if they ran on a few of the same tracks as F1 (Interlagos for example) perhaps they would gain more credibilty.
Oh, hey Sean, nice to see you here. Hope to argue with you some more!
You seem to be a little more toned down, have you lost some of your bravado? hope not.
Cheers!
Madera.
Hey Madera, good to see you.
Yea, I would much prefer to see IndyCar at Interlagos than some new street circuit thats obviously going to be put together on short notice.
And toned down? Yea, I suppose. Too much arguing starts to ruin the fun of such an entertaining hobby like motorsports.
Curt Cavin at the Indy Star reports E. J. Viso working at becoming third Ganassi driver. Second story in column:
http://www.indystar.com/article/20091127/S...owner-concerned
B²
http://www.indystar.com/article/20091127/S...owner-concerned
B²
QUOTE (B Squared @ Nov 27 2009, 11:17)
Curt Cavin at the Indy Star reports E. J. Viso working at becoming third Ganassi driver. Second story in column:
It would be interesting to see how he'd develop in that environment. In Dixon and Franchitti, he'd have two experienced mentors who could help refine his skills.
Has this come about purely as a response to the news that Penske will run three cars?
QUOTE (Rob @ Nov 27 2009, 05:30)
Has this come about purely as a response to the news that Penske will run three cars?
That was my first thought/question.
The line about the Edmonton race certainly isn't encouraging.
Viso in Ganassi? Oh my god, an accident waiting to happen in one of the fastest cars. How much oil money has he got, seriously?
QUOTE (red stick @ Nov 27 2009, 06:52)
The line about the Edmonton race certainly isn't encouraging.
The event lost about $3.9 million last year, which was more than twice the projected deficit. Edmonton City Council has a decision to make as to whether to keep with the event in 2010 (which, given the current economic climate, will likely lose money again) or abandon the event and take a hit for breaking the contract with the IRL.
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/autoracing/index.html
QUOTE (jeze @ Nov 27 2009, 14:31)
Viso in Ganassi? Oh my god, an accident waiting to happen in one of the fastest cars. How much oil money has he got, seriously?
It won't happen. Danica is a better driver than Viso, and undoubtedly brings in more sponsorship money than him too, so choosing Viso but not Danica would be insane.
QUOTE (Muppetmad @ Nov 27 2009, 19:37)
It won't happen. Danica is a better driver than Viso, and undoubtedly brings in more sponsorship money than him too, so choosing Viso but not Danica would be insane.
Except that Danica has already signed a new deal with Andretti Autosport, likely to be confirmed next week. The deal will be fullt-ime IndyCar between 2010 and 2012, with the freedom for Danica to do NASCAR in her "spare time". Venezuela is one of the largest oil-producing countries in the world, and if Viso has a sponsor from that branch, a Ganassi deal won't be hard to clinch. I don't see any benefit for Ganassi, but they have two of the best anyway (and arguably the most gifted driver in Dixon), so maybe they just want to cash in a bit, perhaps financing a second Grand Am car or similar.
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