Racing incident.

I mean, dissect any ten-season driver's ENTIRE career and there'll be a few incidents and accidents along the way.

I'd argue Nick's brain-fade rate is much lower than most other drivers, including a few world champions.

Heidfeld just finished a string of 40 Grand Prix's as a classified finisher.

He clearly is not a car breaker.

I am not cure why some here are as vitrolic as they are, I am not expecting everyone to agree with me. But he is clearly a much better driver than most of the current grid.

I agree with you.

Quick Nick has been my main man for years, and I was lucky enough to meet him back in 2004.

The thing that drives me quite bonkers is how people always say he's boring and doesn't excite sponsors.

To my mind that is garbage.

Nick is totally his own man. Far more than most other drivers on the grid.

He has a really well rounded life outside of F1. He's a family man. He's into his music and his art in a massive way. If you read his interviews or follow his blog he is one of the most intelligent and insightful drivers on the grid.

The current drivers we'd classify as a PR man's dream all irritate me slightly.

For example I find Vettel's non-stop one liners about sex, his cars being named after girls etc all totally juvenile, but I know others here think he's great, so fair play.

When you see many of the drivers interviewed they pause after the question hunting their minds for something sarcastic or clever to say.

Not with Nick. He's straightforward and interesting.

I much appreciate NH driving abilities, only that he used to beat all his teammates (but RK in 08) and most of them managed better than him in their careers. Too bad as he could have done way better - now at his age and achievements he seems to gain much less interest from the team principals than his teammate.

Absolutely.

Another for potmotr's post about Heidfeld's personality and smarts. Nick's always seemed to me a likable and intelligent guy. Not too full of himself, but not a pushover either. And a solid driver too. He'd be the right choice for a few seats out there; were I recruiting for one of the new teams, he'd be high on my wish list.

I'd love to see Nick return to Williams rather than them hiring Barrichello. He was very popular at the team last time round and I think he would be a great match next to the Hulk in a team returning to form.

C'mon, many people blame him for not being so aggressive. But last year he did two or three double overtakes. In Spa, he tried a completely different strategy on stopping with only some laps remaining and he got to overtake four drivers in two corners. Besides, he is a driver that defends very well his position. And people say that Nick isn't aggressive...

He is quick, overtakes well, defends his position well, finishes races, has a very comprehensive technical knowledgement and so on. What the hell else people want from him? A win in Monaco with only 5th gear, three wheels, no steering wheel and driving upside down?

Why don't we end this debate once and for all.
Let's get him into a top car and let's see what he can do.

If he pulls a Fisi, who by the way has had 2 chances at top drives, then we know.
If on the other hand he wins races consistently, there will still be those that will not give him credit.
Even, let's just say, he partners with Lewis, and beats him on points, there will still be the Tight Pants around here that will never be convinced.

But we will never know unless he gets the chance.

Those that are bothered by the fact that team manager have not picked him need to realize that a) If Merceres instead of Ron had made the decision in 2001, history would be different. Also, b) Theisen picked Nick over Vettel 2 years ago. And c) Frank picked him over Pizzonia which was his original first choice in 2005.

All of Nick's shaded teamates have now had a crack at a top car and done well.
It's now his turn.

Ahh, the woulda, shoulda, coulda reply. Right.

Well, if my dad put me in a kart at age 8, I would have been at least 10 times world champion.

If Nick didn't follow team orders and let Kubica by in Canada, it would have been 1 nill in Nick's favour as to the win stake between NH and RK.

If daddy Schumacher and mummy Schumacher didn't feel a bit horny 40 years ago, Ralf would be the best Schumacher in F1.

You need to deal in the world of facts rather that what if's.

I didn't win the euromillions a few weeks ago. If I did, I would be really rich.

That was bad luck, but also just a fact.

If Nick was in a Brawn this year the championship would already be over.

Doubt that. Heidfeld was forced onto a 1 stop strategy and had to nurse soft tyres for over half a race.

He had to let Robert by. If he didn't, he would have won. Mario has confirmed this. Robert was in the better points position, and Nick could have held him up which would have destroyed his race. He had to let him by to ensure a BMW 1/2 and Robert winning maximum points when he was ahead.

Nick is very good at defending, and he would have won if he didn't let Robert past.

Nick is very good and his performances in F300 against the likes of JPM were exceptional.

He has also performed well against a string of teammates but do remember Kimi was in his first season (with only 23 car races under his belt) and Massa though has more experience than Kimi was rather eratic. And I seem to recall Frentzen having the upper hand at Sauber (havnt checked the stats).

Is he top tier - i'd say he falls short. But does he deserve a good drive ahead of say Fisi, Rubens or Trulli? I say yes. Maybe Toyota alongside Glock.

Gerry, I normally agree with you, but why would you place Glock ahead of Trulli despite the fact that Trulli beat Glock?

Glock is, IMHO, a bit of a journeyman. Trulli has won in Monaco, (the most demanding drivers track), and beaten Glock. Why Glock, (who IMHO doesn't deserve an F1 drive).

Well Gerry, this may help you
http://www.f1-facts.com/statistics/team-mates/NHeidfeld
yes Kimi was in his first year, but Nick only in his second, and they were both new to Sauber.
Nick's prior year at Prost was a joke. The drivers were often sitting in their car on Fridays waiting for the engine supplier to be paid before they were allowed on the track.
How will we ever know if Nick is top tier unless he gets a car as his other teamates have had?

Actually I didnt meant Glock should be there instead of Trulli but I thought it was confirmed that Trulli would not be at Toyota?? I think Glock has shown some impressive talent but he is very inconsistent. I do think Trulli has more overall pace though and is a victim of his own qualifying skills (ie. Qualifying higher than where the car should be and then having to fend off faster cars in the race).

I meant that Kimi was barely given a super license due to his lack of experience prior to F1 as opposed to Nick who had some solid F3000 experience and Mclaren testing mileage behind him. It was close between them though and Kimi beat him on fastest laps. Wasnt so close with Massa though. But proves that Frentzen should have stayed in F1 a bit longer.

I do remember Nick's first season at Prost. The team was a mess and I recall his first F1 session at Melbourne 2000, was at the corner where he crashed. But he outqualified Alesi by a mile that weekend.

So yes he deserves a good seat (I was counting on a win this year but we all know how the form book was turned over). As a Kimi fan I want to see Kimi at Mclaren. If that was not to happen then I'd be more than happy for Nick to be there.

Mario confirmed this? Nonsense.

It was Nick "Whiner" Heidfeld who ran to the media after the race and screammed that he let Kubica by, and if he didn't, he would have won.

He did nothing of the sort and you (should) know it.

Nick made his comments in the post race media pen, where all drivers are obliged to go after their official press conference, should they finish on the podium.

Can you blame Nick for being disappointed?

Canada 08 was perhaps his best chance to win a race and he was beaten by his team mate.

He didn't try and sugarcoat his disappointment, he told it as he saw if from his point of view.

His continued strong relationship with Robert Kubica and BMW management would suggest your notion of Nick "running" to the media and "screammed" (sic) that he was forced to let Kubica by is uttery nonsense.

I just don't like Heidfeld's character when he takes this stabs at his teammates, it just comes of as petty and bitter IMO.

Oh come on, lets get a bit of perspective here.

Those here who are trying to trash Quick Nick are coming to that judgement based on individual single quotes.

Put them in context and he is none of the things you describe.

Nick's competition with Kubica has been really tight at times, yet they still have an excellent relationship.

Same is true of Nick with Villeneuve, who spoke very highly of him.

Same with Massa, same with Webber, same with Frentzen, same with Pantano, same with Glock, same with Raikkonen.

The only one he didn't get on with was Alesi who twice ran him off the road.

I have a feeling that Nick and Robert have much, muuuuuuuch more respect for each other than fans of one of them do for fans of the other.

It's sad.

I agree 100%
The "relationship" between RK fans and NH fans, and opinion of RK fans on NH itself and NH fans on RK is sick :/

my guess is that it's like that between all drivers and most of their respective fans... just watch the various Kimi to McLaren, Alonso to Ferrari, Driver X vs. Driver Y threads...

I don't know if it is that sick.

I certainly don't dislike Kubica just because Quick Nick is my man.

Quite the opposite actually.

you are right.
this is why I don't even waste my time reading these anymore.

And I don't dislike Quick Nick just because Rob is my man, but I'm affraid that neither you nor me, aren't so representive for the fanbase of this drivers.

Anyway, my driver v your driver rubbish is so freaking boring.

And we're steering way off topic really.

So what are Nick's options for next year?

Sadly, at this point, they're a bit slim.

Of the teams with open seats, this is the way I see it...

*Qadbak/Sauber: The natural home for Nick. He's driven for Sauber then BMW-Sauber for seven of his ten years in Formula One. But will he want to wait to find out if they get the extra grid slot after BMW bosses stupidly passed up the chance to guarantee themselves a spot on the grid for next year. Some characters in Qadbak also seem quite dodgy.

*Williams: Unlikely. If team has signed Barrichello it also has Hulkenberg on its books. If the Rubens deal falls through it might be an option.

*Toyota: Could well be interested in a safe pair of hands. Glock hasn't been all that convincing and might be injured anyway. Team might want Kobayashi. Quick Nick would be a good partner.

*McLaren: Unlikely, but never say never if Raikkonen deal fails to happen. He'd certainly be more effective than Kovalainen.

*Renault: Perhaps. But they already have Kubica who appears to be exerting influence about his prefered partner (Kovalainen) if Autosport and the BBC are to be believed. Grosjean also kicking around and would be a great shame if he lost his seat after half a season.

*Red Bull Racing: Webber and Vettel appear firm.

*STR: You never know. I don't think having two newbies has really worked out for the team this year. Perhaps an experienced hand like Nick alongside the quite fast but wild Alguersuari? Still, Buemi has probably done enough for a second year.

*Brawn: Very unlikely I'd say, thanks to Button and Rosberg.

*Force India: Unlikely. Sutil (who pays) and Liuzzi looking pretty firm there.

*New Teams: Nick has said he'd rather go with an established operation. And none of the newbies seem to have that much cash. Perhaps Lotus? Nick has a longstanding connection with Petronas and Malaysia.

something on topic finally. I was about to ask for an updated version of Nick's possibilities.

[edit] you have forgotten 'bout RENAULT [/edit]

I would say he's looking at either Qadbak, Toyota or McLaren.

see my edit

Sorry, have reedited mine to include Renault, RBR and STR.

If Toyota will ever be there at 2010.

Signs that say the opposite:
- Williams giving up Toyota engines.
- No drivers signed yet.
- Company's zero emission -strategy when building cars
- Honda left, so no need to challenge their main rival anymore
- General negativity with the sport - Renault and co fooling around
- Lame results year after year

Paradoxically, if Toyota had won in Suzuka, they would have announced their leave without hesitation, with some bride still left. Trulli may have made the factory in Germany a major serve by not winning and maybe giving them one more chance - he really did the maximum result there. But as I said, they may leave nonwithstanding and Nick - whou could've been a good match have to look for other options - even something like Force India.

1. i've never heard about RK preferring Kova. than again, why would I?
besides - it's not up to RK, it's his boss' job, isn't it?

2. why would someone pick HK over NH? really...

Exactly.

They were banging on about it on the BBC at the weekend I think.

I disagree. The difference is that both RK and NH were outscored by each other in the same machinery, so both group of fans could think that their guy is better, and both group of fans have interest in spreading the best opinion about the other guy (he beat my guy, must be great driver).

Nick probably should have waited to open his mouth, he is now being outqualified and outscored this season with 1 race to go. That I believe would make it 2 years in a row.

Nick had the bad luck yesterday that Kubica suffers from.

100% agree. Its a very frustrating situtation to be in.

Especially after so many consecutive finishes.

I think it's fair to say Nick would have finished around 5th yesterday if he'd kept running.

Pretty good from where he started.

If he'd qualified well who knows, he might have made the podium too.

A great shame.

If Alguersuari qualified in the front row, and if he drove 1 second per lap faster than he can, he might have won the race.

I don't think so, he pitted a lot earlier than everyone around him and what, 16 laps earlier than Vettel? He was screwed from the start with light fuel strategy, imo there was not a chance he would have finished in the points with the way race turned out to be. He looked really depressed and sad in that shot after retirement, I got the feeling talks with other teams aren't going well and he needed a strongr esult to impress people.

He always looked pretty bummed not to finish.

And running out of gas after a pitstop has got to be the worst possible way to retire.

Do you at all know what happend in Q1 on Saturday?
Robert did his run early into free air and light rain.
Nick was released 2 minutes later into traffic and very heavy rain.
No excuses. Just bad luck.

His race pace on Sunday was good.
He had Vettel and Hamilton to contend with and passed them both.
The fuel rig problem could have just as easily happened to Robert.
Totaly out of either's control.

Amazing. You are the one that said the points score doesn't tell anything.
Now, all of a sudden, it does?
You should realy get your Schadenfeude under control.

I completely stand by what I said that numbers mean NOTHING. I'm just saying that heidfeld looks pretty stupid right now after what he said about robert and "outperforming" him in 2009. According to Heidfelds logic he is being beaten 2 years in a row. He spoke too soon. Thats all I'm saying.

Don't try to tell us what his logic was.
He used the words "bis jetzt", indicating to this point.

Take your glee elsewhere.

How else is somebody supposed to interpret his comments?



On what grounds is he faster than Robert? Stop taking everything so personally.

would you please stop that neverending NH fans vs RK fans chain of posts?

they both still are in deep s#it this year. RK has found a drive, I really hope NH will find his... It would be a shame if he didn't - the guy is better than half of the 2010 grid will be...