Nick, please just take the seat.

That's good news. It could explain why Sauber ruled out Nick a couple of days ago. Nick already accepted pay cuts earlier in his career, so I do not think that he refuses to drive for, say 3 million Euro. I'd guess that the main problem is that he wants to be equal to Kubica in every aspect including salary.

And kubica has how much now? 8.5m?
Confidential-renault says RF1 has problem with 5m for nick, so that ain't gonna happen.

The owners are venture capitalists. They could afford Nick easily and he would probably give them a nice return on their investment. Could they guarantee that someone like Petrov would be a regular points scorer?

In much the same way that Webber led Vettel half way through last year when you always had a nagging feeling that you'd back Vettel if your life depended on it. In 05, i'd have backed Webber for sure, he almost always looked the faster driver and the one more likely to hoik the car up the field, much like Vettel mid way through last year when Webber was in front of him.

If Renault doesnt give him equal rights to Kubica he shouldnt take the seat. Heidfeld has beaten Kubica in 2 of 3 years together and already had to gift Kubica a win at Montreal. If Renault wants to take him under contract as a number 2 driver its better for NH to retire with his reputation well intact, theres no sensible reason for him to take the number 2 status in a team. It should be equal rights or retirement.

Klien will make the topic of the paddock. WIl he cut? No way, that is my personal opinion...

Marriage settlement

I am feeling that Genii will not pay for it, and see Nick out of grid. I am incline to say this as well.


Please Nick please just take the seat!


Of well I do not earn cent from saying that. I donno how much Kubica get paid from his boss neither...

...if only they give him a nice/fast car.

It's time to Nick to be humble and accept what they are offering him






even if it is drive for food

He already had driven at Jordan without any pay and had to pay for the flights and hotels himself.

When Kubica gets 8,5 million and NH drives for nothing, its not only a thing of prestige or personal pride, NH will be the de-facto number 2 driver, he will get the worse equipment, have less test time, car development will go into the direction Kubica wants (his driving style is much different then NH's) and finally NH will have to use a worse strategy then Kubica in races, and eventually have to move over to let Kubica pass in the races.

I really think NH should retire as sad as it sounds before lowering himself to that level, its not like Kubica is Schumacher, Kubica is a guy that Heidfeld has beaten over the course of there era. He already had to move over to give Kubica the win at Montreal. A season at Renault with those conditions that it looks out to be, will be ugly.

1. Where he got brought to ...by his intact reputation? Till NOw he's nowhere.
2. Do you expect Renauld breach Kubica's contract if there is really a no1 status clause signed?

Seriousely: Is there huge difference between 11th and 12th? Renault is going to have a midfield car...Number 1 status is important for championship fight. Will Nick lose anything? I don't think so. Except money of course but I think he can live with it.

It's called negotiation. You pick up the phone and ask Kubica if he would be willing to compromise. If he says yes, you proceed. If no, you don't.

No way the'd be equal. Renault wouldnt repeat BMW's mistake of trying to please two drivers with different expectations.

IMO if BMW didn't stubborly try to make a car that suits everybody; both drivers, the company board, fit the KERS etc. the car would have been way more reliable and RK wouldn't have had all his mechanical problems so there would be no endless RK-NH ping pong comparisions.

Whats with the "Nick had to give his Canada victory" myth anyway? His strategy was putting him nowhere near Robert in terms of speed. All he could do is cause some trouble by fighting his faster teammate what could have ended with a crash = no podium for any of them.

Give me a break. He did negotiate before he signed the contract. Should he accept getting depreciated?

Nothing is fixed in the world. If they ask him if he would accept a guarantee of equal standing with his team mate, he might think that this is acceptable. If you don't ask, you don't get. Sometimes people are open to compromise if it means that it helps with the harmony within an organisation.

Bottom line, Nick is in no position to demand a big salary or everything that Kubica's got at Renault, Kubica committed to Renault early, Nick is rocking up cos it's his last possible drive, and what, he now expects the big bucks and to get everything Kubica gets? Like who does he think he is? Everyone knows McLaren is Hamilton's team, Ferrari is Alonso's, Merc will be Schumachers, and now Renault will be Kubica's, you come late to the game you got no rights demanding what those that were there from day 1 get.

Its not a myth. The race was about to be over as NH was clearly set to win the Grand Prix. Kubica was about to be third after his last pit stop. So BMW would have finished 1st and 3rd. But in order to secure a 1. 2. finish for BMW NH had to let Kubica pass him so he can drive a gap for his pit stop. NH had to let him by because of team orders and settle for second. The lack of a NH GP win and the huge praise for Kubicas Montreal win is a misconception. If it wasnt for team orders and mid-race changed strategy to hold NH back, Nick would have clearly won the race.

His reputation of a guy who never won a Grand Prix won't disappear if he retires. I think he really got nothing to lose as he don't even seem to have a reputation at all among the teams

Here's an idea for Nick:

Base salary: 0 Euros
Bonus salary: = Kubicas salary max.
Calculated as a percentage of relative points.

If they score equal points they get equal salary. If Nick scores 50% of RK's points he gets 50% of his salary. If he scores 150% he gets 100% of RK's salary.

Wouldn't that be win-win for Renault? If Nick doesn't perform to RK's level he isn't remunerated for it. If he exceeds RK's level he is still only paid as much as RK.

IMO you're half right Renault asked Alonso to accept salary cut due to economic crisis and he did it despite the contract guaranteed him much more money but that's a different thing.

They got different driving styles, if there is one thing that BMW has proven is that it's darn near impossible to get a car that suits both of them so it's just courting trouble to have both of them in the r30.

You try to please everyone and you please no one, it's that simple. You gotta put the main thrust of the resources behind one guy.

100% agree

Heidfeld with his salary's expectations is on the best way to lose F1 drive. Renault won't fight for him for all price and might pick someone else for 2nd seat easily. In 2010 season in Renault F1 team he won't get status and contract terms near to Kubicas. I''m sure it's very hard to get on with this for him. But who KERS

Sounds good at first glance, but does not help the team as a whole. For instance, Nick would benefit from not sharing setup information with Robert.

Btw. is there any statement from Kubica himself regarding Heidfeld as potential team mate? I'm not sure whether he likes or dislikes the idea. (There could be several pros/cons from his point of view.)

Double myth ^ !!!

Without team orders, Kubica would have overtaken Nick anyway, he was miles faster. All the team orders did was ensure the inevitable without risk and give Nicks supporters yet another creative reason why he's as good as Rob. Pffft.

They could write it into the contract that all setup data is shared freely within the team.

IMO you're interpreting thigs in your drivers favour. Don't want to start the good old argument once again though.

Topic is about Nick Heidfeld not Nick v Robert, thank you. Lets keep it to contract battles for this thread at least.

Geez mate. Before pit stops Woodeneye hit Kimi Kubica was third and Nick was fighting for small points. Kubica finished the race 16 seconds ahead of Heidfeld after closing the 28 second gap on 8 laps. Do the math. Nick found himself ahead of Kubica thanks to PURE LUCK only. He was unable to defend almost 30 seconds gap to Kubica on 8 laps mate, so stop spreading your BS about misconceptions. Nick was to SLOW on saturday and on sunday that weekend, he found himself on podium only thanks to SC, and had no chance to chase Kubica if there was no SC in the race.

Oh and if you have any proof of team orders please show it to FIA or STFU.

1) off-topic

Again one comparing Nick´s situation To Kimi´s. They are / were totally different; KR was in position to loose a big amount of money if racing in F1 at all. To stay he would have needed a very big salary to a) reduce the "damages" if staying in F1 b) reduce the attraction of WRC. The offer and it´s clauses didn´t attract >> WRC it is

2) on-topic

I truly wish seeing NH in next year. But if the story about 5Meur is true, I ain´t gonna see it. He sure is not irreplaceable.

In my job there comes seasons I´ve got louds of contracts, deals and other things to finish. What I´ve learnt is that one must focus on most important. What means some things just have to wait or to be dumped.

In my opinion Renault is not the caliber of team to guarantee equal treatment to it´s drivers. IMO they are a team that is forced to focus on somebody..?

Yeah, that and mechanical failures for his teammate.

Kucki, face the facts, if it wasn't safety car, Nick wouldn't be nowhere near competing for podium.

Of course it was pure luck NH was infront of Kubica at Montreal and finished infront in points of his teammates including KUBICA, MASSA, VILLENEUVE, WEBBER, RAIKKÖNEN. So if you beat all these guys in a row, its pure luck only

The Championship Winning team wanted him in there car until Michael Schumacher became available

Aren't we talking about Montreal? What, lack of constructive arguments?

I don't remember any news confirming that HEI was wanted by Mercedes. I heard only that HEI badly wanted Merc's seat. Correct me if I'm wrong.

If you are talking about 2008 Canadian GP than yes. Before SC came out Heidfeld was fighting for small points while Kubica had assured podium place.

They didnt' really want him, it was more a case of nobody better being left, until Schumacher appeared.

Kubica was 29,380 sec in front of Heidfeld when SC was deployed. Than Heidfeld was unable to defend one pit stop time advantage on 8 laps. You can paste as many emoticons as you want but these are facts.

NH was at certain times of the race the fastest on the track, the team switched mid-way into the race his strategy to a 1 stopper screwing up his race. We have seen alot of times how well NH can defend his positions, he clearly went out of his way to make it as easy as possible for Kubica to go ahead. He wasnt defending his position and the win at all. Pure Team orders. He is a true team player but did you see his face and his body language on the podium and in the press, he was gutted. All the years bringing this team from the back to the front and then they switch strategy when he was clearly set to win the race on his original strategy and order him to let Kubica pass. Willy Rampf: "First Nick proved with the second fastest lap of the race that he can still do it. And when he drove with a full tank, he was just brilliant. For us it was a risk, as we never ran that heavy in practice, but Nick is very good when he needs to save tyres and brakes with such a heavy fuel load over 41 laps."

Mercedes and Norbert Haug have several times praised NH's skills over the press and said they are discussing with him. Why would they praise him publicly and say we are discussing with him needlessly? Everyone knows he was the most likely person to join Brawn/Mercedes until Schumacher come up. Ross Brawn wanted Nick Heidfeld last year too.

I'm outta here.

Thats great but in this very race Kubica was faster than him in 52 of 70 laps.




Hindsight is 20/20. If there was another SC Heidfled wouldnt be even on podium had he stayed on 2 stopper. And it almost happend after Piquet's crash



Nope. Pure team orders are when team orders driver to do something. There is no evidence Heidfeld was ordered anything. If you have the evidence pls show it or STFU. After Kubica passed him Heidfeld had still one pit stop advantage to Kubica and he lost it on 8 laps.




Thats great but Kubica build about 46 seconds gap to Heidfeld on about 27 laps.

No matter how you spin it, Heidfeld was in front of Kubica thanks only to SC and he lost 46 seconds on 27 laps to him.

Sure...they all want him so bad ...so why he is still without a job?
Echh...

And Kubica only won because of the SC - without it Hamilton and Kimi would have beaten him. You think the presence of the SC negates the fact Heidfled was in with a shout at winning the race? If so, you're making an argument that Kubica's only win should also be negated.

BMW didnt have a car to win on raw speed but this is different discussion. Before SC was deployed Kubica was second and Heidfeld was 8th. Without SC Kubica wouldnt finish lower than third and Heidfeld wouldnt finish higher than 7th. Kubica was faster than Heidfeld whole weekend and of the two his win was way more on merit than potential Heidfeld win. We can discuss about what strategy would be the best for Nick, or what would happend had he defended hard against Kubica but this has nothing to do with question who of the two was better that weekend. Kubica qualified much higher, he built enough gap for one pit stop on 8 laps and finished 16 seconds ahead of Heidfeld.

Fair enough Walsingham. I don't think anyone makes the team orders point to suggest Nick deserved that win more than Robert, or that he was better at that race. It's only made to point out how the factors that led to RK 1 GP win, NH 0 GP win had more to do with outside factors (SC, team order) than skill and that it was pretty damn close to RK 0, NH 0 or RK 0, NH1. Story of their time together, if you ask me - very evenly matched. Which is credit to Nick, not discredit to Robert.