that is for sure
but you have to agree that the forecast for the near future is not so good
lets hope they messed with the set up

A very efficient F-duct will be needed in Canada thats for sure. As we saw today the mclaren got really close to the bulls on many occasions and the montreal circuit has a few a straights. As i see it, Ferrari's updates have to work now. There is no margin for error. Thats the problem when you put all your eggs in one basket. I for one am hoping it works and works well.

I thought Alonso for sure was better at developing the car than Kimi..

me too
i think will take a while for us to see someone with the same strengths as michael schumacher did

But Schumacher was in a completely different atmosphere. Ferrari had Bridgestone tyres made exclusively for the Ferrari and Schumacher's preferences, oodles of testing on their Fiorano track and there was no engine freeze. Ferrari had way more support and resources they could utilize.

I've never bought into the notion that a driver can make a huge difference into developing a F1 car, no matter how good their technical feedback maybe.

when michael arrived ferrari there was only goodyear and there was technical freedom for all teams
he was more committed than alonso
i am quite disappointed with him
even massa is pretty much on the same level as him
and i am not talking to the qualifying but the race pace too
take today's race as example

Michael arrived with Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne to name a few people...

A couple of off races are nothing to worry about really, surely everyone remember's Schumacher's 2003 season? If people forget the past they lose perspective very easily...

ross brawn and rory byrne arrived in 97
but even in 96 schumacher took ferrari to next level
as for 2003 schumacher won that year with some superb performances like in indy and monza

mackey
please dont let me wrong
no matter alonso or massa i want ferrari to win

They certainly followed though, Ferrari wouldn't be half of what they were in the 2000s without them onboard

He drove the car very well, got alot out of it. The car was an evolution from the 1995 Ferrari which wasn't too bad at all let's not forget.

But races like Interlagos, Malaysia, Silverstone and Germany were very bad, they show that even the greatest of drivers can have a dip in form. Alonso will be back, there's no doubt about that just as Schumi came back later in the year (though I think the politics involving Michelin contributed heavily).

Letting Ross Brawn go was a mistake of colossal proportions, maybe they should try to lure Rory out of retirement
for next years car, otherwise I do not see ferrari winning anything anytime soon, SAD

Tarek

do not disagree with you
but alonso made a mistake in australia in china, monaco and in yesterday's qualifying
without this he could be in first or closer of the championship leader

Renault were good only in Monaco. As Kubica said, there will not be another chance
Canada like Australia will suit us better. If Alonso will not have another brain fade, he can challenge for victory.

Ferrari needs to evolve this car, no more ''revolutions'' plox

unfortunately, ferrari are too focused on fixing massa's lack of performance rather than developing the car

That is so strange, it is wild!

But if even Fernando "the complete package" Alonso cannot make ferrari focus on developing the car, who can? Certainly not Stefano "I hire a driver to do my job of managing & motivating the team" Domenicali

Don't over do it on bigging up schuamcher and putting down Alonso guys. Mika Salo looked like a champion in schumacher's car and Alonso put an end to his championships 5 1/2 years ago in not the best car. All of Schumachers' world titles were down to an incredible team of people. Just like Mark Webbers current form. Schumacher needs a top car every bit as Webber and Alonso.
If Alonso gets the right performance, he will win the championship. A shit season and still a reasonable 4th.

Lets look at things on brighter side for those who think the championship is over. There are 12 races left. And a lot of points to be earned (or lost ). And the car is fast (not in turkey/spain obviosly)

Lets have a highlight for F10s season so far

Bahrain - Dominant very close to red bull still managed to win
Australia - Strong car
Malaysia - Team mistakes and engine problems but the car was fast as we saw in the race
China - ??? wet
Spain - where the shit really got deep. The F-Duct complicated things here. They tested it on friday and decided to use it but the pace of the car was no where what it was 2 races ago.
Monaco - Car was very fast they could have goten a lot more points if it wasn't for fernandos mistake.
Turkey - Same situation as Spain only it got worse.

So it seems the car is struggling really bad on fast speed corners.

They can work flat out on this issue especially now that some tracks could suit Ferrari much better (Canada, Valencia). Just pray to god no mess-ups in these 2.
Than Great britain will be the next real challange to see how much the has improved on the fast corners. If they don't get back to winning by than than we can kiss 2010 goodbyes.

you can't compare schumy-fernando devolopment skills since ever testing was banned, it's pointless.

drivers test new parts with huge limitation on time and more focused on a race rather than development itself

I think ferrari are getting screwed over by the fact we are using these everlasting tyres, kinda makes the tyre preserving qualities we saw pre season redundant

dont forget he is in forth by his own merits and FAULTS

Agree with the whole post and especially with the bold ones. We must take a victory in the next 2 races...

O! I feel deja-vu. BMW 2008 anyone ??

for those short-minded who didn't get it, I was just being ironic

Guys, please do not turn this thread into the "Massa vs Alonso" thread. I had to unsubscribe from that one because of the tripe being posted. Let us try to post non F10 related opinions to their respective threads.

Thanks,

I know that's why my answer (it wasn't serious hence the face with tongue at the end)

I doubt that is possible. If they can take 3 of the 6 podiums in the next 2 races, then that is a half decent result. However, it depends on these "major upgrades". The question is, how big are they?

Ferrari obviously focussed very heavily on being kind to its tyres. Now it has emerged that this is less of a major issue than was expected at the start of the season. I think they have a bit to play with downforce wise. After Valencia they need to be bringing more new modifications every race. Not start good, add a tiny bit every race, then after a certain amount of races do a big leap, then a couple of tweaks for a few races, then another big package. I think that maybe their philosophy of development maybe needs to be revised.

Canada, Valencia are exactly what the doctor ordered for Ferrari.

from your lips to god's ears

Rubbish, you can test as much as you want as long as you don't have good ideas to develop the car. The testing back then was about 90% for tires, but since the tire compounds are now decided in advance by Bridgestone and teh FIA there is no use to test anymore.
Ferrari are missing the smart people, not money nor testing.

Stella is the typical prick.

In the old days, Ferrari used to test whole days at their track, just putting stuff on the car and see what worked the best. Now they first have to make sure the parts they are going to manufacture will work in the best way, as they can't just put it on anymore, see what is does, and if they are not satisfied bold on a slightly different version of the same part.

Only 5th best team means serious trouble, they should start pulling their hands out from under their rears.

Testing crapy ideas wouldn't help anyway.
I stand by the opinion that having the right ideas is the most important and given that other teams do it better I am rather sure that Ferrari are missing smart people more than track testing.

5th best team at this particular track!

McLaren were probably 5th best too at Monaco, yet nobody gave a flying f*** about it. Ferrari can and will rebound sooner or later. Better tracks and loads of upgrades are upcoming for the Scuderia.

Not in his first season with Ferrari.

An evolution? With a completely different engine? V12 to V10 was an evolution?
The car was new and at the beginning it was a dog, however it improved fast and Barnard is quoted saying that working with MS was a dream when it came to development work, he always new what the problem was and what direction they needed to work in order to improve.

None of them is coming back, sadly, they all left for a good reason.
Remember that before being changed with Domenicalli, Todt did try to lure back Brawn during his sabbatical however while Brawn wanted to be the team boss after Todt, Luca was only willing to offer the technical director position. Can you imagine a logical reason for preferring Domenicalli as team boss over Ross Brawn?! I can't.

We don't know that yet.
McLaren and RedBull are not sitting on their hands, and neither are Mercedes and Renault. They went ahead in leaps compared to Ferrari. Why should they stop continuing?

Anyway we will be 3rd best in the best case. The Ferrari F duct will be no match for McLaren and RedBull are simply on another level overall.
Being optimistic is good but a good amount of reality and self criticism is needed not complacency.

Luca wants Italians to have all the top positions...he kinda forgot how that policy led to decades of barren winnings till he swallowed his pride and hired Todt who put together an all star international team.

This means that Ferrari F1 will go south, just like Italy does right now.

Alonso felt sorry for Petrov and his former team, Renault

It's the other way around, Ferrari didn't win anymore after they became an international team in the 80s..

No it is not...they did somethings stupid like putting a design team in England but the rest of the team was in Italy filled with Italians.The team was led by Italians..that changed when Todt came in when he hired Brawn immediately after MS as his deputy, and put in rest of the team in charge.

There have been a lot of articles as how during the Todt tenure the working language in Maranello became English and how it was resented by a lot of Italian purists.

In case you didnt realize, Ferrari got slapped 1 second per lap today in ist face by RBR and McLaren today ... Heck, even during FP people thought Ferrari was on pair with McLaren.

I dont think Ferrari is up with the 4 in either circuit, i could be wrong and i hope im wrong.

The technical team at Ferrari has almost not changed. Ross Brawn was not designer nor engineer, he was a director, technical, but director, he arranged people and make them work on a planned way. Rory Byrne had long worked with Aldo Costa before retiring, the last one remains in the team.
The budget constraint has have huge impact on Ferrari, notably they were the one who highly opposed to it. Smaller budget means less new parts tested on the wind tunnel and on track. Could be said that Ferrari relied on try and error approach.

You're changing your tune. You said that the reason for their two decades without WDCs was a policy of having only Italians in the top positions, which isn't true.

When Luca arrived the chief designer was French and the technical director was American, and I don't think they had to learn Italian to join the team..

And what's wrong for them being based in Italy and filled by Italians? (that magically disappeared when they hired Todt..)

When Mclaren produced a bad car I don't recall anyone saying that they were too English, filled with too many Englishmen.. they're probably one of the less international teams in F1.

in 2003 ferrari had black summer and even they were lapped in hungary but they were able to fight back
the problem this year is aerodynamic efficiency and not tyres like that year
even if i think that ferrari is suffering by too hard tyres but is the same for all teams
we do not know what they have in the pipeline but same aero upgrades are worthy of more than a second
and depending on how it works that means the gains come not only in the hot lap but all through the race and allows further gains on the set up aswell
lets hope will work