So we've got sources saying that the car is competitive, but has bad fuel consumption, and other sources saying that the fuel consumption is great, but the car isn't going to be competitive.



I think this shows that very few people actually know what they're talking about at this point. Which makes sense, seeing as though that Ferrari themselves probably dont know exactly how competitive their car is at this point.

Well how the hell would they even know that stuff when they have no testing or comparison? Sure the new Ferrari might rock my socks off but if the other big teams built better machines it'll not be competitive after all

What's they say here? Goole translate just gives an idea about not good initial results for Ferrari new car.
http://www.thef1.com/destacados/opinion/lo...stan-en-ferrari

they just reworded the german article from msa....nothing new just saying what are the consequences if they get it wrong etc.

I think this is just getting its news from the same story mentioned earlier, just copying it. No confirmation or anything.

Alonso gets first glimpse of new Ferrari http://bit.ly/73NOXw

Fernando Alonso has had a first glimpse of his new Ferrari Formula 1 car, ahead of a seat fitting that is due to take place this week.

Speaking to fans during a special chat event with Ferrari's official website, Alonso said about the car development: "It's almost ready.

"I'm here in Maranello today to prepare the seat and other things connected to the debut on the track. I think that the Ferrari will be competitive and I really hope to bring the drivers' title here to Maranello."

Most have probably seen this already: No “equalising” of engines for 2010
All engines will stay the same as in 09. I can only see this as a huge problem for Ferrari. It is good news for Renault powered cars who had the most frugal engine and bad news for Ferrari who was clearly in the top half of the more fuel consuming engines.

The Renault engine could run almost 3 laps longer than the Ferrari on equal fuel loads on a normal 23 lap stint. If I am not mistaken - that amounts to about 8 laps for an entire race distance which means about 20 kilos of fuel. Thats a lot, so correct me if Im wrong. According to JA, every 3 kilos of fuel they carry less gives them about a tenth per lap. So that amounts to about 6 or 7 tenths for Renault powered cars. (Insert Alonso 6 tenths joke here)
I got the stats from here: http://f1numbers.wordpress.com/2009/12/23/...eview-fuel-use/

That is assuming that none of the engine manufacturers are able to improve their engines in any way over the winter

3 laps is bullshit, and besides, do you seriously think that Ferrari can't do nothing about fuel consumption anyway under those loopholes in the current regulations? I'd also rather have 25 bhp more than Red Bull more than having fuel for six laps less onboard. If you've got pole, then it doesn't matter.

Alonso has driven both the Mercedes and the Renault engines.

If Ferrari has a good race simulator with their engine tune controls, Alonso should be able to tell the differences...

But how can they improve them when they are frozen? No performance developments are allowed. Engines will be the same as last year. Only changes for reliability are allowed. This was exploited earlier to also gain performance, but that is no longer allowed so I presume that will be cracked down on hard if it isnt just for improvement on reliability.


I didnt do the numbers, but on what grounds do you say its bullshit? The numbers are not taken out of thin air from what I can see. But from the released fuelweights and the actual stops for the teams and cars. You can do a pretty accurate calculation if you have those factors. This graph shows that the Renault can go about 2,75 laps longer than the Ferrari on the same amount of fuel on a normal 2 stopper stint: http://f1numbers.files.wordpress.com/2009/...seextralaps.jpg
Also check the link in my previous post. Looks well documented.

And I dont think that the Renault engine is the one that is most down on power either. If it is, it sure didnt bother them as they won the last 3 races with Red Bull.
Anyway, next year is going to be just as much about fuel economy as it is with speed. It will be a balance. And from what I can tell, cars with Renault engines have a big head start. If you should pick one year from the last 15 years in F1 to have the most frugal engine, this would be it. Red Bull can design a car with a much smaller tank (which Newey undoubtedly have) and they can play around with the strategies and fuel mixture and so on more. To me it looks like Ferrari is really on the backfoot from the get go with their thirstier engine.

Does anyone know when they are comparing the date of the F2010 (F61?) to the F60?

Hopefully before 1st Feb.

Since when is that not allowed?

I'm pretty sure that we've reports from a couple different teams about how they're working on making their engines get better fuel consumption.

This is apparently not allowed anymore as the discussions got nowhere. James Allen reports this in the link I posted earlier: http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/01/no-e...gines-for-2010/
Which is why Im seeing trouble in the horizon for all engines who are not frugal. Including Ferrari.

That just says that the engines aren't being 'equalized', not that they cant be messed with to get better fuel consumption, which like I said, I've heard teams ARE doing.

It also says that the only changes allowed has to do with reliability. And changes to improve fuel consumption does not fall into that category. In fact, I would say improving fuel ecomony is actually a performance development. And that is a no-no with frozen engines.

Teams CAN improve fuel consumption. From what I've read every single detail matters, like shape of airbox and exhaust, how air flows into sidepods and of course engine mappings and creating more efficient fuel. That's why Ferrari hired Marmorini, who is there to help the team improve consumption.

But I believe everyone is working on that, so probably nothing will change

During testing will no team run with a full tank to conceal their true pace or will they all run with full tanks so they can get a true reading of race pace progression?

I got the feeling testing will be more confusing than ever.

No, for sure they must know their qualifying pace as it's now low fuel in all 3 parts, but race is no more series of 3 stints, so I expect to see more race simulations than last year, when drivers were doing mainly 20 laps stints, one or two race simulations and couple of quali laps aka media laps .



But does everyone focus on it as much as Ferrari does? I don't think for example Renault-powered teams work on consumption the same way Ferrari do.

And when everyone was working on 2009 cars, that didn't result in all identical cars, GP2-style grid, hmm ?

Yes it will be. We will only get to discover teams true pace on Q2 and on Q3 at Sakhir.

Of course, one team always can beat another in terms of design. But since fuel consumption is expected to be so crucial, I think everyone worked equally hard. And progress that could be made here probably isn't huge, in my opinion not much will change.

Yes, of course. But it seems that physical alterations to the engine wont happen. So cars with say the Renault engine has a much better starting point than Ferrari. They are playing catch up from the start when it comes to fuel consumption. That was my initial argument.

OK then .

But I'm happy there won't be any equalization, as for F1 the more differences, the better (not so for Ferrari fan as we are not so strong in that area ).

Testing will definitely be confusing this year. Before, we basically had the possibility that a team was running from 0kg of fuel up to maybe 80 max(100 being a full-fledged one-stop stint). Now we've got the possibility of 0 to about 200. And every point in between will be important as the teams will want to know whats happening to the car and the tires as it drops weight.

The white colour will be predominant in the wings of the next Ferrari's car:

http://www.f1revolution.com/wp-content/upl...1/santander.jpg

Yeah, i was about to post that pic too, it doesn´t look good to me

I guess Santander really wants its name there, so painted in red over white it is more prominent.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Ups, excuse me, showty

I agree with you, it's so darned ugly

Is that picture a rumour or an official release?

The last Ferrari like that...


http://i46.servimg.com/u/f46/12/26/04/94/ferrar12.jpg
http://ecodiario.eleconomista.es/imag/_v2/...errari_1975.jpg

Santander was holding a private meeting with the press today to introduce its partnership with Ferrari and they showed this image so i guess if it´s not the definitive livery it would be at least very close to the definitive one.

Looks like its going to have a very similar livery to the '06 Ferrari

Errr...

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uplo...suzuka_2006.jpg

As the other images have shown - white on the pre OWG wings looks fine. Do the same on the 2009 spec wings....... oh dear.......

Still ugly to my eyes.

Can´t believe what Santander have made of Ferrari, first they put Alonso there and now they make the car this ugly

Here is a clearer picture:

That's fugly livery . I liked white wings of 248 F1, but on those wide and tall spoilers it looks horrible. Why they could't stay with all red car, which was beautiful for me? Oh, I know, Santander .

Damn....

http://estaticos01.marca.com/imagenes/2010...264003356_0.jpg

The pics were done in Paul Ricard. Driver:FA

F61?

Is that photoshopped?

Doesn't look bulky enough at the back.

If that is it, from what i can see, i am disappointed

But the thing is that the colors of Santander (in their bank offices) are always white letters on a red background:



so they could keep the all red livery.

I don't think so.


Strange, it has 2010 wheel nuts, number 8 on car, but front wing looks very simple... Wait, didn't Ferrari tell they will bring new spoiler only for tests in Spain and not for launch in Maranello? Then it could be indeed F2010 .

ugh! I didn't mind the front and rear wings too much but... just look at the sidepods and mirrors