Ferrari is always the most interesting car until qualifying, when all newbies (Red Bull) start to take over. Think this season is a writeoff now
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HELL!
Ferrari is always the most interesting car until qualifying, when all newbies (Red Bull) start to take over. Think this season is a writeoff now
Ferrari is always the most interesting car until qualifying, when all newbies (Red Bull) start to take over. Think this season is a writeoff now
The soft tyres where very difficult for Alonso, what a shame. Why did he not qualify at the hard tyres?
QUOTE (GPmaster @ Jun 26 2010, 14:17) 
The soft tyres where very difficult for Alonso, what a shame. Why did he not qualify at the hard tyres?
But the soft tyre is the quicker tyre over a single lap and it's better for the race to start on softs.
QUOTE (GPmaster @ Jun 26 2010, 13:17)
The soft tyres where very difficult for Alonso, what a shame. Why did he not qualify at the hard tyres?
Yeah, they can't get the option tyre to work for some reason. Ferrari reported no improvement for Alonso on the options during fp3 and only a slight improvement for Massa. The car has the speed, they must now get cracking on sorting out this tyre issue.
Yep, the times on the options in FP3 where just awful for Alonso so is in Q2. For a single lap the hard tyre looks better for me. The race pace on the hard should be better, but what a shame.
QUOTE (mkay @ Jun 26 2010, 02:47)
Wow. What a beautiful pic. I truly think that the Ferrari is up there with the Red Bull as the most beautiful car ;)
+1
wallpaper size please
Did kubica set his q1 time on hards? 
Does not look good. I'm very disappointed.
I'm not surprised Renault have caught up. The changes that car has been through can be seen by all.
Does not look good. I'm very disappointed.
I'm not surprised Renault have caught up. The changes that car has been through can be seen by all.
I expected more from Ferrari today, it seemed they couldn't get the softs to work as well as others. Hopefully both drivers can get a good start tomorrow.
QUOTE (UPz @ Jun 26 2010, 14:46)
+1
wallpaper size please
wallpaper size please
It's from here: http://www.shell.com/home/content/motorspo...ne/photos/2010/
I don't think it's available in a bigger size.
Surprised by Red Bull's performance, a bit disappointed by Ferrari's result.
All Massa, Button, Alonso and Hamilton made little mistakes in Q3 (well Button's was bigger, he said he lost 2 tenths). Red Bulls can make a mistake and still get first row with ease. McLaren is going to bring a major upgrade to Silverstone which can put them in the fight with them.
I think Ferrari have improved in Valencia but it was not enough to stay ahead of McLaren. It seems both cars were even today but I was expecting to be ahead in this track. Silvertone will be a tough race for Ferrari and it's not enough to put up a fight in the Championship.
They need a much more agressive approach to the Championships from Maranello to the race weekends. From engineers and drivers.
All Massa, Button, Alonso and Hamilton made little mistakes in Q3 (well Button's was bigger, he said he lost 2 tenths). Red Bulls can make a mistake and still get first row with ease. McLaren is going to bring a major upgrade to Silverstone which can put them in the fight with them.
I think Ferrari have improved in Valencia but it was not enough to stay ahead of McLaren. It seems both cars were even today but I was expecting to be ahead in this track. Silvertone will be a tough race for Ferrari and it's not enough to put up a fight in the Championship.
They need a much more agressive approach to the Championships from Maranello to the race weekends. From engineers and drivers.
On the bright side, our top speed is high, so if it happens that race pace is better tomorrow, we can overtake or defend against kubica if he has better race pace.
Very surprised I expected Ferrari to be a lot quicker than McLaren.
yeah me too. Life's better when you expect less. 
QUOTE
Fernando Alonso (4th, Q3 - 1m 38.075s)
“I am happy with this result. Here, so many teams, including Ferrari, have brought new parts and so it was important to show we are capable of fighting for the top places. We managed it and we must bear in mind that, without the updates we have on the F10, we would probably have struggled to make it into Q3. Tomorrow, we have the potential to fight for a podium place: it will be important to get a good start, choose the right strategy and not make any mistakes because the walls here are not forgiving. Obviously, reliability will be very important as this track is very tough on the cars. With the harder tyre, our car was more competitive as its behaviour inspired more confidence over the flying lap, but to have done Q3 with this compound would probably have compromised our race.”
Felipe Massa (5th, Q3 - 1m 38.127s)
“Today, we had a good car and the potential was there to do better than this fifth place. In Q1 and Q2, I was very pleased with the handling of my F10, but in Q3 I was not able to improve, mainly because of traffic that prevented me from preparing the tyres properly. It’s a shame, because I could have been starting from third place tomorrow: from fifth it will be harder to fight for a podium finish, but the chance is still there within our grasp. The updates the team has brought here contributed to making the car more competitive and they lived up to our expectations: we must continue down this route for the rest of the season.”
Stefano Domenicali, Ferrari team principal
“We are reasonably pleased with this result. The car proved to be competitive and everything was in place to secure an even better result but, for various reasons, we never managed to put together the perfect lap with either of our two drivers. All the same, we know that as always, the points are only given out tomorrow. We can expect a long and difficult race for the drivers the teams and the cars and, as I usually say on Saturdays, reliability will be the key. The technical updates we introduced this weekend have seen us take a step forward in terms of performance, but we must continue to push on the development front, because the other teams are doing the same.”
Chris Dyer, Ferrari chief engineer
“There is a hint of disappointment at this result. After this morning’s third free practice session, we saw that our car was very competitive on the harder tyre, while it struggled a bit more to get the best out of the softer one on the single flying lap. In the two hours before qualifying, the team worked on trying to find the right compromise and the situation improved, but not enough to put us in the fight for the very top positions, which was also down to the fact that neither driver managed to get a clean lap in Q3. That explains why Felipe and Fernando ended up where they did. All the same, it’s not a bad position for the race: from what we have seen so far, the F10 seems to be very competitive over a long run.”
“I am happy with this result. Here, so many teams, including Ferrari, have brought new parts and so it was important to show we are capable of fighting for the top places. We managed it and we must bear in mind that, without the updates we have on the F10, we would probably have struggled to make it into Q3. Tomorrow, we have the potential to fight for a podium place: it will be important to get a good start, choose the right strategy and not make any mistakes because the walls here are not forgiving. Obviously, reliability will be very important as this track is very tough on the cars. With the harder tyre, our car was more competitive as its behaviour inspired more confidence over the flying lap, but to have done Q3 with this compound would probably have compromised our race.”
Felipe Massa (5th, Q3 - 1m 38.127s)
“Today, we had a good car and the potential was there to do better than this fifth place. In Q1 and Q2, I was very pleased with the handling of my F10, but in Q3 I was not able to improve, mainly because of traffic that prevented me from preparing the tyres properly. It’s a shame, because I could have been starting from third place tomorrow: from fifth it will be harder to fight for a podium finish, but the chance is still there within our grasp. The updates the team has brought here contributed to making the car more competitive and they lived up to our expectations: we must continue down this route for the rest of the season.”
Stefano Domenicali, Ferrari team principal
“We are reasonably pleased with this result. The car proved to be competitive and everything was in place to secure an even better result but, for various reasons, we never managed to put together the perfect lap with either of our two drivers. All the same, we know that as always, the points are only given out tomorrow. We can expect a long and difficult race for the drivers the teams and the cars and, as I usually say on Saturdays, reliability will be the key. The technical updates we introduced this weekend have seen us take a step forward in terms of performance, but we must continue to push on the development front, because the other teams are doing the same.”
Chris Dyer, Ferrari chief engineer
“There is a hint of disappointment at this result. After this morning’s third free practice session, we saw that our car was very competitive on the harder tyre, while it struggled a bit more to get the best out of the softer one on the single flying lap. In the two hours before qualifying, the team worked on trying to find the right compromise and the situation improved, but not enough to put us in the fight for the very top positions, which was also down to the fact that neither driver managed to get a clean lap in Q3. That explains why Felipe and Fernando ended up where they did. All the same, it’s not a bad position for the race: from what we have seen so far, the F10 seems to be very competitive over a long run.”
Makes you wonder what Ferrari plan to do. Will they abandon the F10, label it a dog and focus on next year's car like they did with the F60?
QUOTE (hotstickyslick @ Jun 26 2010, 17:15)
Makes you wonder what Ferrari plan to do. Will they abandon the F10, label it a dog and focus on next year's car like they did with the F60?
I don't know why they would as they are fighting for the championship now, unlike last year.
QUOTE (hotstickyslick @ Jun 26 2010, 11:15)
Makes you wonder what Ferrari plan to do. Will they abandon the F10, label it a dog and focus on next year's car like they did with the F60?
I sure as hell hope not. You can't do that every year just because things aren't going your way. Ferrari is suppose to be a fighting team.
QUOTE (AdamKOR @ Jun 26 2010, 16:16)
I don't know why they would as they are fighting for the championship now, unlike last year.
Well i think Ferrari though this update was going to be enough to bring them to the fore but i dont think there done yet - give them a few races to get to grips with it
I must repeat myself: What a poor show for Alonso on SuperSofts... From fighting to RedBulls we're down to fighting with McLarens...
QUOTE (AdamKOR @ Jun 26 2010, 16:16)
I don't know why they would as they are fighting for the championship now, unlike last year.
But they were in the same position in the championship last year as they are now this year.
Of course I'm not suggesting that there's a possibility that they'll decide to abandon the F10 right now. But if it carries on like this they'll be in quite a dilemma.
QUOTE (hotstickyslick @ Jun 26 2010, 16:25)
But they were in the same position in the championship last year.
Of course I'm not suggesting that there's a possibility that they'll decide to abandon the F10 right now. But if it carries on like this they'll be in quite a dilemma.
Of course I'm not suggesting that there's a possibility that they'll decide to abandon the F10 right now. But if it carries on like this they'll be in quite a dilemma.
I don't think Ferrari can afford to do that again - you cant write off every single year again and again they may be better off just continuing with developing like McLaren did last year.
Domenicali siad already that they won't abadon development of this year car. Stop this speculations.
QUOTE (gaston_foix @ Jun 26 2010, 17:21)
I must repeat myself: What a poor show for Alonso on SuperSofts... From fighting to RedBulls we're down to fighting with McLarens...
Maybe not his best day but the first row was Red Bull's and both McLaren and Ferrari are even.
They need a much more agressive approach to Q3, and they need to find out what gadget allows Red Bull to run Q3 lower than any other car.
I'm fed up hearing 'our race pace is stronger' so often.
QUOTE (hotstickyslick @ Jun 26 2010, 16:25)
But they were in the same position in the championship last year as they are now this year.
Of course I'm not suggesting that there's a possibility that they'll decide to abandon the F10 right now. But if it carries on like this they'll be in quite a dilemma.
Of course I'm not suggesting that there's a possibility that they'll decide to abandon the F10 right now. But if it carries on like this they'll be in quite a dilemma.
They aren't as far behind as they were last year though.
After 8 races they were 79 points behind. If you compare using last year's points system they would be 24 points behind. It is not that massive, there are 11 races to go, it can be pulled back. As they are saying this is only the start of the upgrades with the new package. As Red Bull seem to have this inherent ability to shoot themselves in the foot, it coud open up possibilities for Ferrari. Mclaren is a different story. However, I do think Ferrari are losing the chance for the WCC, unless the updates for Silverstone work well. They said they woudn't make much of a difference in Valencia, but the F10 is on par with Mclaren at this track, and who knows, maybe a bit of luck. I certainly dont think the WDC is out of the realms of possibility.
QUOTE (prty @ Jun 26 2010, 02:27)
That pic would be up there as one of the greatest shots I've seen if it wasn't for the Shark Fin.
As for the result today, I think too many people relied on the quoted 0.7 sec gain rather than the more realistic 0.3/0.4 sec gain. Silverstone is where McLaren bring theit big upgrade, so I will only judge the relative pace of the teams after Sunday 11th July.
It's a bit strange that Ferrari struggled on the softer compound today considering they were superb on those tyres in previous races. A bit of a flip on the tyre front.
QUOTE (Mandzipop @ Jun 26 2010, 11:46)
They aren't as far behind as they were last year though.
After 8 races they were 79 points behind. If you compare using last year's points system they would be 24 points behind. It is not that massive, there are 11 races to go, it can be pulled back. As they are saying this is only the start of the upgrades with the new package. As Red Bull seem to have this inherent ability to shoot themselves in the foot, it coud open up possibilities for Ferrari. Mclaren is a different story. However, I do think Ferrari are losing the chance for the WCC, unless the updates for Silverstone work well. They said they woudn't make much of a difference in Valencia, but the F10 is on par with Mclaren at this track, and who knows, maybe a bit of luck. I certainly dont think the WDC is out of the realms of possibility.
After 8 races they were 79 points behind. If you compare using last year's points system they would be 24 points behind. It is not that massive, there are 11 races to go, it can be pulled back. As they are saying this is only the start of the upgrades with the new package. As Red Bull seem to have this inherent ability to shoot themselves in the foot, it coud open up possibilities for Ferrari. Mclaren is a different story. However, I do think Ferrari are losing the chance for the WCC, unless the updates for Silverstone work well. They said they woudn't make much of a difference in Valencia, but the F10 is on par with Mclaren at this track, and who knows, maybe a bit of luck. I certainly dont think the WDC is out of the realms of possibility.
The truth is Ferrari still has a great chance of winning the WDC, especially with Alonso.
However, unless Ferrari greatly improves their car in the following races (and I know that some upgrades are in the pipeline, so hopefully they'll be able to catch up Red Bull), the WCC is out of the picture. Why? They can't get both drivers to score serious points. Alonso has done much of the dirty work so far. Ferrari truly needs Massa to start earning some podiums and 4th-5th places if Ferrari really wants that WCC title.
It's not only Ferrari who are bring updates, all the big teams are. For sure they are not as far behind, but they are still behind. If they don't start catching up now then there will come a point where they will have to make this decision.
Directly when they bring in a huge upgrade for the diffuser and small change on the frontwing then Felipe is basicly on Alonso's pace. That's encouraging for next season when the minimum weight of the car will be raised by 20kg it will allow all drivers who struggle with the front end to distribute more ballast at the front without paying the price for more weight.
My POV
Ferrari upgrades: 6/10
McLaren upgrades: ?/10 (we´ll know after Silverstone)
Ferrari upgrades: 6/10
McLaren upgrades: ?/10 (we´ll know after Silverstone)
QUOTE (Raziel @ Jun 26 2010, 20:00)
My POV
Ferrari upgrades: 6/10
McLaren upgrades: ?/10 (we´ll know after Silverstone)
Ferrari upgrades: 6/10
McLaren upgrades: ?/10 (we´ll know after Silverstone)
I don't think Ferrari's got 6/10 with the upgrades, hopefully they still have some new parts for Silverstone.
I think all Ferrari, McLaren and Red Bull are very close in Valencia but Red Bull is still much faster in Q3. Marc Gené said they were bottoming out in some parts of the track during Q3 and he found hard to explain how they could add 150 kilos and still drive without issues during the race.
I'm the only one who think Alonso struggle with SuperSofts? It happened in Turkey too...
QUOTE (gaston_foix @ Jun 26 2010, 18:48)
I'm the only one who think Alonso struggle with SuperSofts? It happened in Turkey too...
Yes you are. 'Cause according to (most of) the Alonso fans it isn't possible that Massa struggles with the harder tyres, so to say now that Alonso doesn't like the softs would be weird
The thread is starting to resemble the Mclaren one. Panic... Ferrari have the speed, they just couldn't get the options to work. Btw, what's the difference between the options and the primes on this track?
QUOTE (Ferrari2183 @ Jun 26 2010, 19:03)
The thread is starting to resemble the Mclaren one. Panic... Ferrari have the speed, they just couldn't get the options to work. Btw, what's the difference between the options and the primes on this track?
According to Bridgestone not that much; at least no degradation on the softs.
QUOTE (gaston_foix @ Jun 26 2010, 20:48)
I'm the only one who think Alonso struggle with SuperSofts? It happened in Turkey too...
Maybe, but Turkey had nothing to do with the supersofts, cause they used softs/hards there
QUOTE (Ferrari2183 @ Jun 26 2010, 20:03)
The thread is starting to resemble the Mclaren one. Panic... Ferrari have the speed, they just couldn't get the options to work. Btw, what's the difference between the options and the primes on this track?
The difference between this thread and the Mclaren thread is that Ferrari fans have more reason to panic. The F10 simply isn't quick enough atm.
QUOTE (Mandzipop @ Jun 26 2010, 19:11)
The difference between this thread and the Mclaren thread is that Ferrari fans have more reason to panic. The F10 simply isn't quick enough atm.
I disagree. Atm it is fast enough. How the car will perform in Silverstone is the question mark though...
QUOTE (gaston_foix @ Jun 26 2010, 20:48)
I'm the only one who think Alonso struggle with SuperSofts? It happened in Turkey too...
Yep. Alonso excels with the harder compounds and he usually struggles with the softer, specially supersofts. Problem is Q3 is normaly decided on the softers. I've heard a few times that it didn't happened to him with Michelin supersofts because the compound was stronger to lateral forces while the Brigestone is suffers lateral deformation if you push too hard. It depends on the driving style and I really hope Pirellis suits him better on that respect.
QUOTE (F.M. @ Jun 26 2010, 19:06)
According to Bridgestone not that much; at least no degradation on the softs.
Lap time difference on a single lap?
I don't want to say it, but I hate when people complain about Alonso. I repeat it: about Alonso who deliverd all the succes Ferrari has had so far this year.
So: Yes, we can say, Alonso suffered today with the supersoft, but he beat Massa even with this issue. What's the problem???
So: Yes, we can say, Alonso suffered today with the supersoft, but he beat Massa even with this issue. What's the problem???
QUOTE (Kevin Taylor @ Jun 26 2010, 21:47)
I don't want to say it, but I hate when people complain about Alonso. I repeat it: about Alonso who deliverd all the succes Ferrari has had so far this year.
So: Yes, we can say, Alonso suffered today with the supersoft, but he beat Massa even with this issue. What's the problem???
So: Yes, we can say, Alonso suffered today with the supersoft, but he beat Massa even with this issue. What's the problem???
When Alonso is so good then people have right to expect more from him, haven't they?
QUOTE (Kevin Taylor @ Jun 26 2010, 20:47)
I don't want to say it, but I hate when people complain about Alonso. I repeat it: about Alonso who deliverd all the succes Ferrari has had so far this year.
So: Yes, we can say, Alonso suffered today with the supersoft, but he beat Massa even with this issue. What's the problem???
So: Yes, we can say, Alonso suffered today with the supersoft, but he beat Massa even with this issue. What's the problem???
I thought he is fighting for the WDC.... Massa is not my concern..., maybe yours...
QUOTE (gaston_foix @ Jun 26 2010, 18:48)
I'm the only one who think Alonso struggle with SuperSofts? It happened in Turkey too...
It is not Fernando, it is the F10. In Monaco Felipe was P1 in Q2 on the harder tyres but the Red Bulls and Kubica destroyed him with the supersoft in Q3.
QUOTE (gaston_foix @ Jun 26 2010, 14:48)
I'm the only one who think Alonso struggle with SuperSofts? It happened in Turkey too...
Well they didn't use the same tires in Turkey, but it did seem that Alonso didn't really improve much at all on the supersofts here.
He showed a good ability to use them in the race in Montreal, though, so I'm still fairly optimistic. I never expected Ferrari to suddenly be winning races, but at least we weren't far off Mclaren. A good base to work from.
QUOTE (Seanspeed @ Jun 26 2010, 22:20)
Well they didn't use the same tires in Turkey, but it did seem that Alonso didn't really improve much at all on the supersofts here.
He showed a good ability to use them in the race in Montreal, though, so I'm still fairly optimistic. I never expected Ferrari to suddenly be winning races, but at least we weren't far off Mclaren. A good base to work from.
He showed a good ability to use them in the race in Montreal, though, so I'm still fairly optimistic. I never expected Ferrari to suddenly be winning races, but at least we weren't far off Mclaren. A good base to work from.
He only qualified on the options because if he qualified on the primes it would ruin his race strategy. Kubica had the same problem. He was also faster on the primes than the options. Massa seems to prefer the options. Bridgestone did say that it was driver preference.
QUOTE (Mandzipop @ Jun 26 2010, 17:36)
He only qualified on the options because if he qualified on the primes it would ruin his race strategy. Kubica had the same problem. He was also faster on the primes than the options. Massa seems to prefer the options. Bridgestone did say that it was driver preference.
Yea, it was definitely the right call, no matter if he struggled or not.
I hoped for a bit more, but I think the car has overall been pretty impressive this weekend. Slightly disappointed, but not that much. 4th is still pretty good when not too long ago people were saying that Ferrari were leapfrogged by Mercedes and Renault.
QUOTE (Seanspeed @ Jun 26 2010, 22:48)
Yea, it was definitely the right call, no matter if he struggled or not.
I hoped for a bit more, but I think the car has overall been pretty impressive this weekend. Slightly disappointed, but not that much. 4th is still pretty good when not too long ago people were saying that Ferrari were leapfrogged by Mercedes and Renault.
I hoped for a bit more, but I think the car has overall been pretty impressive this weekend. Slightly disappointed, but not that much. 4th is still pretty good when not too long ago people were saying that Ferrari were leapfrogged by Mercedes and Renault.
After finding out what Red Bull had brought, I'm fairly happy with the result. They brought the F-Duct and a new diffusor. That was kept quiet. So I think a 3/4 would have been the max. Both Massa and Alonso's laps were compromised, so they didn't do too bad.
It is stage 1 of the updates. That doesn't mean that stage 1 will bring the biggest improvement. At least it works. Merc have found out that it can have the opposite effect. The expectations might have been on the overall package, which hasn't been introduced this race.
We'll see.
QUOTE (Seanspeed @ Jun 26 2010, 23:48)
Slightly disappointed, but not that much. 4th is still pretty good when not too long ago people were saying that Ferrari were leapfrogged by Mercedes and Renault.
Yep.
QUOTE (Mandzipop @ Jun 27 2010, 00:48)
It is stage 1 of the updates. That doesn't mean that stage 1 will bring the biggest improvement. At least it works. Merc have found out that it can have the opposite effect. The expectations might have been on the overall package, which hasn't been introduced this race.
Yep.
Ferrari are quick enough in the first and second sector, but they lose 0.3sec in the last sector, wich has only 2 braking areas, very strange
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