Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Do you think Button will successfully defend his WDC?
The AUTOSPORT Bulletin Board > Forums > Racing Comments
Pages: 1, 2
Liuggi
I don't think Brawn will have the car next year. McLaren and Ferrari will fight it out I suspect, in particular Alonso vs Hamilton. eek.gif
Liuggi
I'm assuming Button stays at Brawn GP.
Iron Maiden
Who would have predicted he'd win the 2009 Championship this time last year.. or indeed around when Honda pulled out.

Jenson will almost certainly be driving the official Merc car run by a Ross Brawn team.. so it looks on paper like a better chance than this year. I expect Mclaren to be very strong again next year but theres no reason Brawn cant sort out the problems of the existing car and design it for the ground up to fit the Merc engine.
Apollonius
It's Alonso VS Hamilton next year.

Button will be happy with this I think!
PoliFanAthic
Clearly too early to tell, but it should definitely be interesting. No reason to ignore Massa, Vettel and (depending what he decides to do) Raikkonen.

As for the question whether Button is worthy, he did more than his opponents could, whereby could is a very twisted word. I don't see how someone who claims that Button is a true champion wouldn't consider him for the WDC next year though.
Simon Says
Unless Ross Brawn can find an other loophole to exploit, no way. Brawn GP wasn't special anymore once Red Bull, Ferrari and Mclaren had a DD diffuser working. Even the outdated Ferrari in the hands of Kimi can beat the Brawn's.

They are going to be strong next year, but I expect Ferrari, Red Bull and Mclaren to be right up there with Brawn GP from the start of the season.
Buttoneer
It would be nice if there were a list of alternative 'worthy' champions and reasons for the bashers to choose.
Liuggi
QUOTE (Buttoneer @ Oct 18 2009, 20:14) *
It would be nice if there were a list of alternative 'worthy' champions and reasons for the bashers to choose.

I suppose the undisputed better drivers than Button, which are:

Hamilton
Raikkonen
Alonso

and the ones who're disputably better, which are:

Kubica
Massa
Vettel
Buttoneer
QUOTE (Liuggi @ Oct 18 2009, 20:31) *
I suppose the undisputed better drivers than Button, which are:

Hamilton
Raikkonen
Alonso

and the ones who're disputably better, which are:

Kubica
Massa
Vettel

Sadly though, you screwed up the poll by missing this out. By leaving out the drivers who were shitter than Button, you prevented people from choosing which of those shitter drivers actually, in their strange and deluded opinion, got more 'realpoints ™' this season.



Edited for drunkspelling.
Slartibartfast
QUOTE (Liuggi @ Oct 18 2009, 20:31) *
I suppose the undisputed better drivers than Button, which are:

Hamilton
Raikkonen
Alonso

and the ones who're disputably better, which are:

Kubica
Massa
Vettel


Hmmm. We clearly have different ideas of the meaning of 'undisputed'.
Slartibartfast
QUOTE (Simon Says @ Oct 18 2009, 19:40) *
Unless Ross Brawn can find an other loophole to exploit, no way. Brawn GP wasn't special anymore once Red Bull, Ferrari and Mclaren had a DD diffuser working. Even the outdated Ferrari in the hands of Kimi can beat the Brawn's.

They are going to be strong next year, but I expect Ferrari, Red Bull and Mclaren to be right up there with Brawn GP from the start of the season.


Or, alternatively, unless Ross Brawn (and team) can think creatively again, no way. Brawn GP don't have the resources to beat the well-funded R&D of their rivals. Even the phenomenally expensive Ferrari can fail to finish ahead of the Brawns.

They are (hopefully) going to be strong next year, but I expect Ferrari, Red Bull and McLaren to outspend them.
plastik2k9
I don't think Brawn GP will be fastest next year, so I don't think a title defence will be possible (if he stays). I voted yes for worthiness. He's scored more points than any driver, won more races, had more podiums, and finished every race except 1 in point scoring positions. How the hell can that be unworthy?
Orges Dushku
I doubt it very much that Button will defend his title. We saw halfway through season the brawn was on a backfoot, the usuals kinda got back to top and red bull gave them a real hard time with webber and vettel smile.gif. But I think Button diserved to win the championshp anyway.

As for next years cars I know it will be much closer than it started this year....We never know smile.gif
Turbo4
not a chance.

too many of the bigger teams will come with heavier firepower next year.
potmotr
I doubt it.

He'll probably be up against Hamilton and maybe Raikkonen in a decent McLaren, Alonso and Massa in a Ferrari and Vettel and Webber in a Red Bull.

He's probably win races but all will be very tough to beat of a championship, especially given Jenson's repeated bungles under pressure.
Clatter
I voted no because I'm not confident of Brawn producing a good enough car. I do hope I'm proved wrong.
schuey100
The question is not whether he will be able to defend his crown but whether he'll manage to win a race again. Unless something extraordinary happens it's unlikely that we'll see him on the top of the podium again.
PassWind
QUOTE (Liuggi @ Oct 18 2009, 19:31) *
I suppose the undisputed better drivers than Button, which are:

Hamilton
Raikkonen
Alonso

and the ones who're disputably better, which are:

Kubica
Massa
Vettel


Since you joined yesterday which gutless fan of the top three are you, I have noticed quite a few of these Turds who remain marginally polite get another account to Troll with. Come out, come out whoever you are.......
PassWind
Force India, Adrian Sutil might be the Champ next year but because he doesn't fit into the Fanboy world of who is cool, not worthy.....
Clatter
QUOTE (PassWind @ Oct 19 2009, 08:59) *
Since you joined yesterday which gutless fan of the top three are you, I have noticed quite a few of these Turds who remain marginally polite get another account to Troll with. Come out, come out whoever you are.......


It seems 90% of the new accounts are only here to troll. I can't quite work out if it's different people or just the same idiot registering over and over again.
potmotr
QUOTE (PassWind @ Oct 19 2009, 08:59) *
Since you joined yesterday which gutless fan of the top three are you, I have noticed quite a few of these Turds who remain marginally polite get another account to Troll with. Come out, come out whoever you are.......


Exactly.

Signing on then figuring out how to start multiple threads within ten seconds is quite suspect.
stevewf1
If he has a dominant car, he certainly can defend - but so could a lot of other drivers. After his form compared to Barrichello in the last half of 2009, I'm not sure Button has what it takes to sustain a serious season-long title challenge...
Snap Matt
QUOTE (schuey100 @ Oct 19 2009, 08:57) *
The question is not whether he will be able to defend his crown but whether he'll manage to win a race again. Unless something extraordinary happens it's unlikely that we'll see him on the top of the podium again.

While I think you're being a bit harsh to say he won't win again, presumably ever, I can easily imagine him having a worse 2010 than either Lewis had this year or Kimi last year, in terms of raw results.
Arion
QUOTE (stevewf1 @ Oct 19 2009, 09:15) *
If he has a dominant car, he certainly can defend - but so could a lot of other drivers. After his form compared to Barrichello in the last half of 2009, I'm not sure Button has what it takes to sustain a serious season-long title challenge...


If the car is as dominant as this season, he can do it, he would only have a Nico Rosberg to beat.

fastdriver
QUOTE (plastik2k9 @ Oct 18 2009, 19:43) *
I don't think Brawn GP will be fastest next year, so I don't think a title defence will be possible (if he stays). I voted yes for worthiness. He's scored more points than any driver, won more races, had more podiums, and finished every race except 1 in point scoring positions. How the hell can that be unworthy?

+10 up.gif
dabrasco
I think Brawn will at best produce a car that matches the top car which will be a Mclaren or Ferrari and maybe a Red bull

I just dont see Button beating Alonso, Hamilton or Raikonnen in quasi-equal machinery.... plus u can expect mac or ferrari to outdevelop Brawn as season progresses
kar
Brawn may have a good car next year, but it's doubtful they will have the sort of performance advantage at the start of 2010 as they had in 2009.

I suspect/hope Ferrari and McLaren will be back in the mix next year, and I think Redbull will still be there. That means you have drivers the calibre of Hamilton, Raikkonen, Vettel, Alonso, Massa all thereabouts.

Button is a worthy champion this year, but I don't think he's a 'great' champion. I think he managed to take a car that was reliable and at times dominant and win the title in it. But I don't think he could take a car that is merely as good as the others and win a title in it.

Hamilton could, Alonso could. I suspect if the car was reliable enough Vettel, Massa and Rakkonen could too. So unless Brawn build a F2002 or F2004 I don't think Button has a prayer of defending his title.
Sophieb333
I would love to say that yes I think he'll at least be in the fight but I'm afraid I don't. However no-one would have predicted at the end of last year that Button or Honda's new owners would be anywhere better than ,at best, midfield. So all I can really say is I hope next year turns out as fierce as it's shaping up to be.
Jeag
As always its down to the car and logic tells you at best brawn might create a car equal at best to the other top guys then get out developed over a season.

Then again logic told us brawn would be back markers in 2009.
Don_Humpador
QUOTE (kar @ Oct 19 2009, 09:53) *
Brawn may have a good car next year, but it's doubtful they will have the sort of performance advantage at the start of 2010 as they had in 2009.

I suspect/hope Ferrari and McLaren will be back in the mix next year, and I think Redbull will still be there. That means you have drivers the calibre of Hamilton, Raikkonen, Vettel, Alonso, Massa all thereabouts.

Button is a worthy champion this year, but I don't think he's a 'great' champion. I think he managed to take a car that was reliable and at times dominant and win the title in it. But I don't think he could take a car that is merely as good as the others and win a title in it.

Hamilton could, Alonso could. I suspect if the car was reliable enough Vettel, Massa and Rakkonen could too. So unless Brawn build a F2002 or F2004 I don't think Button has a prayer of defending his title.


Precisely this.

Next season will be about who gets a handle on the no refueling strategies first and also best.

Button should be a good exponent of no refueling, but I can't really see him defending the WDC over the course of a season.

Jeag
Don't get why people compare the brawn to the f2004 etc, its much more like the renault Fernando drove to his 2 world titles in terms of speed compared to others over a season.
Buttoneer
One thing Ross said which I though was interesting is that they had been developing the 2010 car since the begining of the season and that they had won this championship without diverting much resource to this years. That means they ought to have a reasonable (if not championship winning) car for next year.

Button is of course capable of defending his WDC assuming the car is good enough. It's only because he drives for the 'wrong' team that people can't bring themselves to congratulate or praise him in any way at all.
kar
QUOTE (Buttoneer @ Oct 19 2009, 10:15) *
One thing Ross said which I though was interesting is that they had been developing the 2010 car since the begining of the season and that they had won this championship without diverting much resource to this years. That means they ought to have a reasonable (if not championship winning) car for next year.

Button is of course capable of defending his WDC assuming the car is good enough. It's only because he drives for the 'wrong' team that people can't bring themselves to congratulate or praise him in any way at all.


I don't think *too* many are not giving him congratulations or praise. He earned his title this year and he did more than anyone else.

What is up for debate though, is how me might have got on, had the season started in Turkey. In other words had he not had such a dominant car at the start of the season.

Brawn might have been developing their car for 2010 since the start of the season, but that's no different to any other team. Ferrari and McLaren were developing this years car at the start of 2008 too. What is different is that Ferrari diverted resources from developing the 2009 car, to working on the 2010 car very early.

Brawn didn't do that, they kept staff working on the 2009 car throughout the season.

So there's an approach difference there.

I think the 2010 Brawn will be a very good car, but how likely is it to be as dominant as the one the one that rocked up to Melbourne this year? And if Button did not have such a dominant car at the start of the season, it's hard to see he would have still won this year's title with a race to spare. If indeed at all.

Button won most of the races that he should of. But very few times, I think, did he 'nick' a result, he patently should not have. Perhaps Brazil being a fitting exception.

The Fernando Alonsos and Lewis Hamiltons of this world have that ability to transcend the car sometimes. And if given the same equipment as Button, I find it hard to imagine at the end of the season Button could keep up.

That's why, I think, less than 1 in 10 believe Button will defend his title.



Snap Matt
QUOTE (Don_Humpador @ Oct 19 2009, 09:59) *
Next season will be about who gets a handle on the no refueling strategies first and also best.

Button should be a good exponent of no refueling, but I can't really see him defending the WDC over the course of a season.

I'd forgotten about the refuelling ban. Maybe that makes me give him as much as an extra 10% chance of truly being in the fight for the 2010 title, but it wouldn't go anywhere near changing my votes in the poll (No and Yes).
Rinehart
QUOTE (Liuggi @ Oct 18 2009, 20:31) *
I suppose the undisputed better drivers than Button, which are:

Hamilton
Raikkonen
Alonso

and the ones who're disputably better, which are:

Kubica
Massa
Vettel


Kimi very nearly didn't win a Championship in circumstances very similar to Buttons this year. It took the Lewis to throw it away. I think a stress-free Button (like Brazil 2009) is better than Kimi.
kosmos
I doubt he can defend the title in 2010. Next year it should be Ferrari vs Macca, and maybe a guest team, red bull?.
Buttoneer
QUOTE (kar @ Oct 19 2009, 10:39) *
That's why, I think, less than 1 in 10 believe Button will defend his title.

That's more to do with the number of McLaren, Hamilton, Ferrari, Kimi, and Alonso fans there are on the board, and their hopes that the 'right' teams will be in front next year.

It's no more surprising than you and HSJ agreeing so readily that this years WDC campaign was dull because there were no 'villains' or obstacles to overcome. Of course there were none because your guys were not in the running.

This result does rather help to dispel the idea some people have that F1 support is all about nationality. Where are the huge crowds of nationalistic partisan evil imperialist Brits now?
kar
QUOTE (Buttoneer @ Oct 19 2009, 11:18) *
That's more to do with the number of McLaren, Hamilton, Ferrari, Kimi, and Alonso fans there are on the board, and their hopes that the 'right' teams will be in front next year.

It's no more surprising than you and HSJ agreeing so readily that this years WDC campaign was dull because there were no 'villains' or obstacles to overcome. Of course there were none because your guys were not in the running.

This result does rather help to dispel the idea some people have that F1 support is all about nationality. Where are the huge crowds of nationalistic partisan evil imperialist Brits now?


I don't agree this year's campaign was dull. Quite the opposite. I only agree in so much as the winner 'affects' fewer people than a more controversial winner might. And frankly after the 2007 and 2008 seasons, I'm not so sure that's exactly a bad thing smile.gif
fastdriver
QUOTE (Rinehart @ Oct 19 2009, 09:59) *
Kimi very nearly didn't win a Championship in circumstances very similar to Buttons this year. It took the Lewis to throw it away. I think a stress-free Button (like Brazil 2009) is better than Kimi.

I'm almost tempted to laugh. Almost.
Clatter
QUOTE (Buttoneer @ Oct 19 2009, 10:15) *
One thing Ross said which I though was interesting is that they had been developing the 2010 car since the begining of the season and that they had won this championship without diverting much resource to this years. That means they ought to have a reasonable (if not championship winning) car for next year.

Button is of course capable of defending his WDC assuming the car is good enough. It's only because he drives for the 'wrong' team that people can't bring themselves to congratulate or praise him in any way at all.


They don't appear to have been able to maintain the developement race this year which makes me doubt the next years car story a bit.
rko281
QUOTE (fastdriver @ Oct 19 2009, 13:21) *
I'm almost tempted to laugh. Almost.


I'll do it biggrin.gif
Rinehart
QUOTE (fastdriver @ Oct 19 2009, 11:21) *
I'm almost tempted to laugh. Almost.


We'll you don't appear to have a reasoned opinion, so if that's all you can muster, I'm not impressed.
paffett4F1
QUOTE (Clatter @ Oct 19 2009, 11:34) *
They don't appear to have been able to maintain the developement race this year which makes me doubt the next years car story a bit.



Read Andrew Benson's blog it's quite enlightening

Andrew Benson blog
undersquare
Even with the running start Jense and Brawn had this year, he's not even close in the "2nd half of 2009" championship. In fact he's only 6th in the 8 scores since Turkey, behind Seb, Lewis, Kimi, Rubens and Webbo . So I just don't see how he can do it next year when the other cars will start better relative to the Brawns.
Rinehart
QUOTE (undersquare @ Oct 19 2009, 14:00) *
Even with the running start Jense and Brawn had this year, he's not even close in the "2nd half of 2009" championship. In fact he's only 6th in the 8 scores since Turkey, behind Seb, Lewis, Kimi, Rubens and Webbo . So I just don't see how he can do it next year when the other cars will start better relative to the Brawns.


His performance has dropped because he's been stressed and pressured by leading the Championship, worried he would blow it. And that manifested itself in poor performances. But as soon as we got to a race where he had nothing to lose with Barrichello on pole and Jenson 14th, all that goes out of the window and he performs again. Watch Jenson go in the final race, you'll see.
Atreiu
Those guys who put some money on Button before the season started should do it again next year. Looking at the poll, he should still be paying back a huge ammount.

I voted no and yes. There will be no double difuser row and no KERS to distract McLaren and Ferrari. Not to mention the possibility of Newey making a rocket of a car born to hold a DD. Will Red Bull get Mercedes engines?

It doesn't mean Brawn will slip into the tail of the field, but I don't think they'll make such a great car again.

My 2cents/guesstimation at its best...
MinT
QUOTE (undersquare @ Oct 19 2009, 14:00) *
Even with the running start Jense and Brawn had this year, he's not even close in the "2nd half of 2009" championship. In fact he's only 6th in the 8 scores since Turkey, behind Seb, Lewis, Kimi, Rubens and Webbo . So I just don't see how he can do it next year when the other cars will start better relative to the Brawns.



He did what he needed to do - in a car that bas struggling compared to earlier in the season. He kept Rubi and Vettel in his sights and won with a race to spare......Its not like Rubi has 5 wins to his 6.
wewantourdarbyback
Oh good, no ones asked whether he's a worthy champion yet rolleyes.gif
MinT
There are 55 Alonso fans on here ???
kar
Frankly it's amazing that only 8 people out of 100, think Button will defend his title.

While I'm one of them, the Brawn will not suck next season. So by that logic, surely he's got a better chance than .8 in 10?
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2012 Invision Power Services, Inc.