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MegaManson
QUOTE (manchild @ Oct 18 2009, 19:06) *


I have to see the English version to properly comment but if he really did say that in Senna's country then he really needs carting away by the men in white coats as coming so soon after the Hitler comments he is showing signs of mental illness

But in a way Senna's death did bring a lot of new fans to the sport thanks to the publicity
ryan86
I dont' know it it was coincidence, but I was one of the post-Imola 1994 fans. I'm sure I've read viewing figures increased.
mursuka80


Bernie please! Shut up mad.gif
Victor_RO
At least Bernie's grand master plan backfired. Now that both titles are wrapped up, nobody will watch Abu Dhabi anymore.
manchild
Increased profit for FOM doesn't mean that it was good for the sport. Much more people stopped watching F1 when Senna died, than those who started watching it because of his death. Unfortunately, the first ones are not posting on F1 forums either, so you can't hear them. Whatever, no one sane would ever make such comment, no one with at least a bit of human decency...
dexter311
In a way he is arguably correct (similar to the Hitler comment) but both comments just aren't meant to be said! Is he going even crazier?
Slyder
No it wasn't Bernie. WE all wanted to see the epic Senna vs. Schumacher battle and we got robbed of that! frown.gif
Arctic_Banana
Oh my ****ing god! Bernie deserves a serious asswhopping. He's a total douche. Hope he enjoys the money when he's lying in a cold grave.
giacomo
Ecclestone is officially crazy. That Hitler remarks, now this.

Senna's death might have been good for Ecclestones wallet, but for F1 it was a disaster.
Pampalini
QUOTE (giacomo @ Oct 18 2009, 20:34) *
Ecclestone is officially crazy. That Hitler remarks, now this.

Senna's death might have been good for Ecclestones wallet, but for F1 it was a disaster.



It was a disaster for F1 -and a disaster for Schumacher as well- he was left without a real worthy champion to beat... His most talented opponent was dear old Mika this way -and that's about it ambivalent.gif
Kooper
QUOTE (manchild @ Oct 18 2009, 13:26) *
Increased profit for FOM doesn't mean that it was good for the sport. Much more people stopped watching F1 when Senna died, than those who started watching it because of his death. Unfortunately, the first ones are not posting on F1 forums either, so you can't hear them. Whatever, no one sane would ever make such comment, no one with at least a bit of human decency...


I didn't come back to F1 until 2001.
bankoq
Let's kill Nadal & Fedderer. It will be good for tennis.
Pampalini
QUOTE (Kooper @ Oct 18 2009, 20:58) *
I didn't come back to F1 until 2001.


First F1 GP I remember happened in 1985 (Senna in black Lotus, Lauda still driving)- I left around 1997 because of the total Schumi dominance- I came back in 2007.
George Costanza


When you lose, arguably, the greatest racer of all time, and Bernie says it's good? What an absolute idiot he is.
andysaint
To be fair, after Ratzenburger, Senna, Lehto and Lamy the FIA went very anal on safety in F1 which we have seen the benefits today. Same sort of thing happened after Earnhardt was killed in Nascar.I wouldn't like to say F1 benefited from Senna's death but it got them out of complacency and the attitude of let's see how fast they can go and sod the consequences. Senna did a lot of F1 alive and maybe even more from beyond the grave.

But yes, Bernie, brain before mouth. Not the first time won't be the last.
Andrew Hope
Good for the drivers in terms of safety, bad in every other imaginable way for every one else.
Arctic_Banana
QUOTE (bankoq @ Oct 18 2009, 22:03) *
Let's kill Nadal & Fedderer. It will be good for tennis.

Exactly.

Damn this pisses me off. Wouldn't mind if someone kicked Bernies ass in the dark alleys of Sao Paolo...
britishtrident
Distraction tactics --- an old Bernie trick the aim is to distract attention from the stories of Todt-Mosley gangs dirty election tactics.
mursuka80
QUOTE (britishtrident @ Oct 18 2009, 22:31) *
Distraction tactics --- an old Bernie trick the aim is to distract attention from the stories of Todt-Mosley gangs dirty election tactics.


You are quite cynical lol.gif
Birelman
Geez Bernie!!! down.gif
PNSD
He's right.

Thanks to the death of Senna massive changes were made to improve saftey.

Senna's death along with Rolands saved the lifes of many drivers after.

The 1994 cars were dangerous, Senna himself said that.
mursuka80
Its just that i dont think that is Bernie`s idea,but he is happy that F1 became so huge after that so he can swim in money down.gif
DOF_power
Ecclestone is absolutely right. The death of popular driver always brought publicity, especially in the TV/cable/satellite era.
Coral
That is an absolutely shocking thing to say. Senna was one of the greatest drivers ever and his death was a tragedy. cry.gif Even 15 years later I still get upset when I think about that weekend. I'm shocked and disgusted that he could say such a thing and the sooner F1 is rid of the senile old git, the better. mad.gif
manchild
QUOTE (PNSD @ Oct 18 2009, 20:47) *
The 1994 cars were dangerous, Senna himself said that.

Tell the whole story than. 1994 cars became dangerous because MoSSley became FIA president in 1993, and made changes to technical regulations for 1994, which lead to two deaths. Last time someone died during F1 race before MoSSley became FIA president was in 1982. First season under his regulations (1994) and two drivers die. After Roland's death on Saturday, Bernie could have canceled the race, and he did nothing, because that would halt his money making machine. Both of them killed Roland and Ayrton, Max's and Bernie's contribution to safety of F1 = 0, it was all paid by Roland's and Ayrton's blood.
aditya-now
QUOTE (Kooper @ Oct 18 2009, 20:58) *
I didn't come back to F1 until 2001.


2001 with the appearance of three men, Montoya, Alonso and Raikkonen, was when a certain aura came back to F1 that was terribly missing. No Schumi, Hill, Villeneuve and Hakkinen could fill that void.
BigWicks
errr, you guys all realise bernie has been saying this for the last 10-15 years?

and all bernie is pointing out is that when senna died, f1 ratings went up and stayed up. not a very pleasant point and it says a lot about society but don't shoot him for making that observation.
Just waiting
down.gif
mursuka80
QUOTE (BigWicks @ Oct 18 2009, 23:02) *
errr, you guys all realise bernie has been saying this for the last 10-15 years?

and all bernie is pointing out is that when senna died, f1 ratings went up and stayed up. not a very pleasant point and it says a lot about society but don't shoot him for making that observation.


Yes and his pockets filled with money down.gif
DOF_power
QUOTE (manchild @ Oct 18 2009, 22:58) *
Tell the whole story than. 1994 cars became dangerous because MoSSley became FIA president in 1993, and made changes to technical regulations for 1994, which lead to two deaths. Last time someone died during F1 race before MoSSley became FIA president was in 1982. First season under his regulations (1994) and two drivers die. After Roland's death on Saturday, Bernie could have canceled the race, and he did nothing, because that would halt his money making machine. Both of them killed Roland and Ayrton, Max's and Bernie's contribution to safety of F1 = 0, it was all paid by Roland's and Ayrton's blood.




My thoughts exactly.
Prost said that a possible cause where the rules changes.
I've also heard a story about Senna saying before the beginning of the 94 season that the cars where so bad that it would take a miracle for everyone to make it thru the season in one piece.
The early-mid 94 cars where essentially active ride cars minus the active suspensions and other electronics.
DOF_power
QUOTE (Coral @ Oct 18 2009, 22:57) *
That is an absolutely shocking thing to say. Senna was one of the greatest drivers ever and his death was a tragedy. cry.gif Even 15 years later I still get upset when I think about that weekend. I'm shocked and disgusted that he could say such a thing and the sooner F1 is rid of the senile old git, the better. mad.gif




But he's absolutely right.
BigWicks
nah thats nonsense i'm afraid mate, ratzenberger and senna died because they hit concrete walls at 200mph, you tell me how active suspension prevents either of those deaths. once you leave the track traction control, active suspension are no help whatsoever
alfa1
QUOTE (manchild @ Oct 19 2009, 06:58) *
After Roland's death on Saturday, Bernie could have canceled the race, and he did nothing, because that would halt his money making machine.



I dont think I've ever defended Bernie before, but I will this time.
The thinking in the paddock after Rolands death was that he had gone off track the lap before and damaged his front wing, which then came completely off the next lap.
At the time, I dont think there was any general feeling that Rolands accident was at all due to the car regulations, and thus required canceling the whole race weekend to somehow get it sorted out, but was instead due to his off track damage.

DOF_power
QUOTE (BigWicks @ Oct 18 2009, 23:12) *
nah thats nonsense i'm afraid mate, ratzenberger and senna died because they hit concrete walls at 200mph, you tell me how active suspension prevents either of those deaths. once you leave the track traction control, active suspension are no help whatsoever




The active suspension controlled the ride height, furthermore the setup was controlled/changed thru the race via 2 way telemetry to be in optimal conditions most of the time.
There was no 200 mph concrete wall impact.
PNSD
QUOTE (BigWicks @ Oct 18 2009, 21:12) *
nah thats nonsense i'm afraid mate, ratzenberger and senna died because they hit concrete walls at 200mph, you tell me how active suspension prevents either of those deaths. once you leave the track traction control, active suspension are no help whatsoever


So changing track, as a result of Senna's crash prevented more accidents at the corner...

The corner was always recognized as dangerous before hand (ask Berger!!!!), it was only altered after Senna's crash.
britishtrident
QUOTE (Coral @ Oct 18 2009, 20:57) *
That is an absolutely shocking thing to say. Senna was one of the greatest drivers ever and his death was a tragedy. cry.gif Even 15 years later I still get upset when I think about that weekend. I'm shocked and disgusted that he could say such a thing and the sooner F1 is rid of the senile old git, the better. mad.gif



I thought after all these years we could see Senna in perspective he did an awful lot of damage to the sport (as did Schumacher).

Motor racing has had many great champions to be proud of Senna wasn't one --- I stopped watching F1 for years because of his tactics.
FLB
QUOTE (DOF_power @ Oct 18 2009, 13:22) *
The active suspension controlled the ride height, furthermore the setup was controlled/changed thru the race via 2 way telemetry to be in optimal conditions most of the time.
There was no 200 mph concrete wall impact.

Riccardo Patrese would disagree. He had a massive off at Tamburello in May 1992 when the active suspension failed.

So did Sandro Zanardi at Eau Rouge in 1993.
MegaManson
He must be hoping Hamilton or Alonso die soon given its 15 years now
Juan Kerr
QUOTE (dexter311 @ Oct 18 2009, 19:28) *
In a way he is arguably correct (similar to the Hitler comment) but both comments just aren't meant to be said! Is he going even crazier?

You're obvious just being perverse like many saddo's on here. There was nothing positive about Senna dying unless a negative is a positive in the world of the perverse minded individuals.
EthanM
QUOTE (FLB @ Oct 18 2009, 21:28) *
Riccardo Patrese would disagree. He had a massive off at Tamburello in May 1992 when the active suspension failed.

So did Sandro Zanardi at Eau Rouge in 1993.



didn't Berger have a crazy off in a Ferrari with an active suspension failure? staight out of the pitlane, narrowly missing traffic on the main straight.

Anyways, it's irrelevant, you can't say "that guy dying" was good for the sport, makes no difference if that guy was the best or the worst driver around, it's just not something you say.
FLB
QUOTE (EthanM @ Oct 18 2009, 13:35) *
didn't Berger have a crazy off in a Ferrari with an active suspension failure? staight out of the pitlane, narrowly missing traffic on the main straight.
Absolutely, at Estoril in 1993. He was under full throttle at the time.
Coral
QUOTE (britishtrident @ Oct 18 2009, 21:26) *
I thought after all these years we could see Senna in perspective he did an awful lot of damage to the sport (as did Schumacher).

Motor racing has had many great champions to be proud of Senna wasn't one --- I stopped watching F1 for years because of his tactics.


Senna was by no means perfect and yes some of his tactics were dubious but no one can deny he was a great driver and he made F1 interesting for me after Gilles died. To say his death was good is a disgrace. No driver should have to die for increased safety.

It will serve Bernie right when the desert is deserted in two weeks' time. Stupid muppet. frown.gif
DOF_power
People are not being objective here.
The deaths of great drivers/sportsmen have had this effect. I can't remember exactly who said it (if it was Brabham, Stewart or Lauda) but before being picked up of TV full season/full races, starting with the late 70s, motorsport grabbed the spotlights usually due deaths and/or serious accidents (Lauda's case for example).
fer312t
I think Bernie's death would provide a nice boost to viewership...
GiancarloF1
Senna's death was nearly as good to Formula 1, as Adolf Hitler was to the mankind.

Embarassing. down.gif
Apex
Bernies death will be good for F1.
manchild
I'm not in the mood for arguments... Saying that death of an innocent person was good because it brought publicity (more money) or whatever to someone else is just plain evil.

Max and Bernie didn't change the safety regs. from 1994 onwards to better the way some people say, because they didn't inherit them as bad, but made them bad themselves in 1993, making those worst technical regulations since 1982. They just covered up their own mess with safer tech. regulations for 1995, and following seasons.

Creating hell, and than claiming to be saviors after destroying it, that's what those two did.

Piquet had terrible accident on same spot in 1987, Berger in 1989, and no changes whatsoever were made. Not a single old rubber was placed on that concrete wall, no chicane was built, nothing. Until Senna died, and all because of his greatness and popularity. If it was some midfield driver or rookie, nothing would change.


Video - Piquet, Tamburello 1987 (no active suspension on car)

Video - Berger, Tamburello 1989 (no active suspension on car)

Video - Senna, Tamburello 1994 (no active suspension on car)
Slartibartfast
So Bernie Ecclestone thinks that the death of Senna was good for F1? In what terms, increased ratings, and, therefore, more income for him? If so, how much of that increase has he given to Senna's family/good causes?
MegaManson
Would he be brave enough to stand in the streets of Sao Paulo and say this ? like hell he would

Further signs of him going cuckoo today too saying that Piquet Jr should be hired by an F1 team

Someone give this wig wearing idiot dwarf a straightjacket and a padded cell
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