The problem with ALL the japanese manufacturers is that they get a guy in, he starts building what looks like a half decent car and then they get rid of him because they THINKthey know better then fall flat on their faces. Classic examples are Gascoyne and the Toyota (that was not bad before he left), Willis and the Honda that delivered a win, or the likes of Subaru that suddenly decided they wanted more in-house development from Prodrive, likewise RalliArt in Rugby having development of the Evo taken over more in Japan... none of which have turned out well.

What they should do, is bring someone in and let them do the job rather than interfere...but then thats not the Japanese way it seems, when it comes to running motorsport operations.

UNLESS... as I suspected previously.... Toyota turns to someone like Prodrive and says... YOU TAKE OVER! That way Prodrive can take on the management of the F1 team AND develop a new WRC car which would also fit nicely with Kimi jumping into the mix... for his transition from F1 to WRC one day...

;)

You would think that as this stage of his career Kimi's priority would be performance rather than money, yet here he is asking mclaren for another kings random, after being sacked because of under performing. I hope Mclaren dont give in and toyota either.

What I said is in the context of them directly blaming the drivers lately... I thought that was lame, especially considering that team's history.

Generally speaking, when the car happens to be fast this driver lineup delivers podiums and points, and when the car is slow they don't..

Maybe they are hoping for a Hamilton or a Alonso to make their inconsistent turd look faster than it is, but IMO that's not the right approach.

That's the situation at McLaren this year, and no title..

Is this new or older news being reported here again? Sorry, I don't mean to be rude but just curious.

Bad idea,and I'm glad Raikkonen thinks so,too.


With this,Howett and his outfit have been turned down twice this year.

New.
I take Timo anytime over Kimi.

Didn´t he also say a month ago that Toyota is talking with Kubi allthough he already signed with Renault.

I think that he just wishes that Kimi would join them but Kimi said no and now he presents it as if it was Toyota´s decision not to sign him.

How do you get to that? All I see is that Toyota made an offer and Kimi has rejected it. More money on the table might change that, but Toyota have reached their limit.

It's from yesterday.

Thanks. That settles it; McLaren it will be for him.

I wonder how these negotiations take place actually. Like this maybe?

1. Driver X's (manager) calls to a team one says he want 30 Million per season. Team A says we give you 20. That means team A has made a binding offer and driver gets 20 mil deal if he says yes while the offer lasts.

2. Then driver X approaches team B saying he wants 40 Million. Team B says "are you nuts" 25 is the max you'll get from us. Driver X has another binding offer at the table.

3. Now it's up to driver X to choose between team A's 20 and B's 25 mil. Or choose to retire. However he has made two binding offers at the stage one unless we interpret phrase "we give you 20" as "we won't pay 30, bugger off".

4. But what about drivers Y and Z? Now the teams can't make them offers without reservations like Y'll get 10 if A hasn't male a deal with X until say, end of the month.

Somehow I think Räikkönen is at stage three. Now it's up to him to choose from less money from McLaren or more money from Toyota, but ayway less than he'd really like to have. What I'm trying to say is that "nothing is signed" doesn't necessarily mean there's no binding offers at table.

"I'm only interested in continuing in F1 if I can drive in a winning team. I have no interest to go to some new team or a team that has been in F1 for a long time without winning anything"

why is this so hard to understand!...he was never going to toyota no matter how much they offered him...he actually said ''id rather sit home,then go to a team where i cant win a championship''.

how will more money change that when the guy has stated ''im not going to a team where i cant win a championship.id rather stay home'' countless times

Which is the most critical thing?

A) A Top driver?
B) Loads of money?
C) A good organisation with a talented team-boss?

Hint: find out by comparing Toyota to Brawn.

After opinionating that Kimi cango to Toyota, and reading hi fresh refusal to do so, I am now more certain about the recent slump of popularity to the Toyota. In a way it is a bloofy consequence that Toyota has to take for itself, I must also say. Toyota could have opted to take young Kubica, young Alonso or even young Vettel to give them a force to race and hung on to their speed.

If Not Kimi then take Sutil and build the car around him, which is naturally none sensical by now.


So now what? I assume KIMI will not go to Toyota.

Lots of things are said but they don't always mean what they say. Toyota's plans could change his mind. A year ago a doubt any driver would have touched Honda/Brawn with a barge pole. History is not always a good pointer for the future.

Kobuiyashi and Kimi - CAN'T WAIT!

This is not true at all.

wasn't he supposed to have already signed with redbull?

*

KR to Toyota. No way that can happen.

I'm pretty sure that the TF109 has had better results in it than Trulli or Glock have shown. It's also going to be a good base for developing next years car.

I know you Kimi fans cannot stand the thought of him going there - but imagine if he started winning a few races? That's a big FU to Ferrari and his reputation pretty much restored (not to mention copius amounts of wonga). Would he be able to achive the same "restoration" at McLaren with an very on-song Hamilton as his team-mate? I'm not so sure.....

fair enough but the point was kimi going to toyota if they upped their offer.that is money would influence him going there.as ive said before this is unrealistic.he mentioned it himself countless times..
and the current statement''I have no interest to go to some new team or a team that has been in F1 for a long time without winning anything" ..doesnt that fit toyota perfectly.the statement from howett is nothing but sour grapes..

and yes though u cant predict anything about next season right now,wouldnt u put your money on a ferrari,mac,rb,brawn before ud even think about toyota

No, I'd actually rather see him at Toyota than at McLaren - I just don't think he's interested so if the choice is between McLaren and an early retirement, I'm sort of forced to support the McLaren idea. In terms of reputation restoration, McLaren's the better option as well. The worst that can happen is that Lewis beats Kimi into a figurative pulp like the experts say he will and Kimi's reputation will stay as low as it's been the past few years but at least there's a chance, however small, that he'd not get that bad a beating after all and that would probably reflect better on him than anything he could possibly do at Toyota against a no-name teammate. But he'll probably just retire so this is all academic anyway.

Kimi will be at McLaren I am sure.

He isnt exactly skint is he? Winning races and beating Ferrari will be more motivation than an extra few million $.

I'm pretty sure Irvine justified his switch to Jaguar as 'one last payday' or something along those lines.

No its not. Kimi said those exact words about 3 weeks ago.

It does look the very same as the old quotes.

I think the perfect place for him would be Mac.

If I was going to place a bet for next season then yes I would go with Mac or Ferrari. Brawn could easily be a one hit wonder, as could RB. I'm not totally convinced that Toyota are that far off though. I think a decent driver could give them the push they need, but that might not be KR anyway.

They are both stark raving mad surely? Kimi is a "great, fast car ... i'll drive it fast" driver, not a "Ok fellas we have a shit car, but let's see what we can do as a team to work this out push forward" type driver.

If Toyota produce a rocket he'll fly but they need galvanisation .... not just a slightly faster Trulli. They needed Alonso, they were mad to let him go.

Nuts.

Toyota need a star driver, they 've spend untold billions and 7 years in F1 and have won exactly nothing. I suspect unless they can get a proven winner onboard Japan will slash their budget heavily on Novemeber 15th.

However I fear that what Toyota really needs is a change in management, to hire some people that know how to win races. IMO Howett can't do that for them. I think somebody like Brawn or Todt or even Flavio with the amount of money Toyota is spending in F1 would have made that team a dominant force.

I hope Kimi doesnt do that, Toyota won't give him the car he needs and wants. Don't follow the money, Kimi.

thats undebatable.im certain the deal has been done.another 12 days until the official anouncement.

Chicken and egg. No star driver is going to sign if they think the budget is going to be slashed.

Yes, I think too, but the problem is that Hamilton (specifically his father) blocked Roseberg's entrance to Mclaren for a 2009 seat, and that now are doing the same with the possible Kimi's hire for 2010.

This ^ - how many times have we read this year from Glock & Trulli that they and the team have no idea why they are so slow at some races and fast at others? They are weak, technical wise. I do think a Alonso, Hami or Kimi would have won a race or 2 in this years Toyota. And for Kimi to go to Toy would be akin to heading into the wilderness, never to be seen again.

BS unless you can find a credible link or quote to back it up.

I had hoped that after their Ralf experience Toyota would have learnt the lesson: do not hire a money leeching cruiser. Appears not, looks like they need more pain to learn this lesson.

Don't worry. KR will retire and not end up at Toyota.

Here is:

http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=117308

I said a credible link or quote, not the same rubbish wrapped up in a different thread.

Well one could say he's followed the money once already - accepting Ferraris pay-off. If it were that simple...

^^^^^

It's important to put this rumor in the proper context of what John Howett's agenda is.

This is a guy who is so incompetent, yet at the same time is a really big talker. He's made a complete failure of perhaps the highest-spending F1 team. He'll likely be campaigning for his job at the budget meeting next month in Japan. Like many incompetent people, he tries to compensate by being a big talker and projecting himself in a certain light, which is what he's doing right now by selling out his drivers and talking about Raikkonen and Kubica. He's probably known for some time that Raikkonen has zero interest in the team, and this bit about him "wanting too much money" is just being thrown out there by Howett to compensate for his inability to get the driver in an attempt to save face.

For all we know, the "Raikkonen to Toyota" bit has all been concocted and made up by Howett all along. He's the only one with Toyota or either side of the rumored negotiation who has said anything about it. And it would certainly fit with his personality.

http://www.gpweek.com/PDF/GP065.pdf

Pg. 6

This move is an interesting one, not least because of the Finn’s
previously troubled relationship with McLaren, compounded
by a reported clause in Lewis Hamilton’s contract that his
management team have the right to veto his team-mates at the
squad.

Yea, the Toyota thing keeps coming up, but I keep thinking it would take an absurd ammount of Money to lure Kimi into Toyota. I mean, money can get you pretty much anything, so, if they really want him, they can toos crazy money at him and he'll probably go for it, but it would take ridiculous ammounts. If I were him, I'd say something like 50 million or something ensane like that should do the trick, and I would take it, I mean, it's a car he can win in, considering it was a better package this year than Ferrari. Not going to happen though.

Laugh all you want but his question is valid; we need to see a reputable source confirming Lewis veto'd Rosberg because that sounds like bull to me too...

If Lewis wasn't scared to go up against Alonso and Schumacher why would he be scared about going up against Rosberg? Someone he's beaten before??

Think about it before trying to come across all high and mighty on the "internets" and failing

At the start of this year, and at many point through out, the TF109 has been faster than Ferrari, McLaren, Renault, sometimes even the Brawn and the RB5.

I am going to boldly predict, that if Kimi does go to Toyota, at the end of 2010, they will have a WDC trophy sitting in Cologne, and maybe even a WCC trophy depending on the 2nd driver.

It kills me to say that Fernando would probably have been a better option, and probably would have challenged for the WDC both this year and last where he in that car.

I can't help but wonder, given Kimi's performances this year if had he been driving the Toyota he would have challenged (to a certain degree) for the title. Like you said, it's performance level was better than Ferrari, and at many moments on a par with the top dogs if not better. Surely worth a few wins in the right hands, well, it's all speculation anyway, but I wonder.

Reported by who?

Still failing on the credible bit.

Will Buxton is probably F1's top journo now certainly the best of the younger breed and he has a very hot wife so I think he is a reputable source

I think that would be overly optomistic (who thought Brawn would do it), but I wouldn't be surprised by a win or 2.