Honda RA005E 'Suzuka Spec'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DYl4mD_620

3.0 V10 - 980BHP

#1 : BMW qualifying turbo engine is mine. Shockingly noisy when qualifying, and still ear shattering in the race. Amusingly, the claim was that they ex 3 series used blocks ... doubt that was true, but it had a lot of appeal at the time. Over 1,400 hp during qualifying too.

#2 : The production Buick V8 engine that Rover purchased, was modified in Australia into the Repco V8 for the new 3 litre F1 series. The first crude version won Black Jack (Brabham) another WDC. The Cossie killed it, and its next generation wasn't as good as the new fangled Cossie, but a championship winning engine with road car DNA appeals to me again.

# 3 : Any Ferrari F1 engine, as they made so many, its hardly fair to pick any out. But the fact that Enzo focused on engines rather than the car, resulted in a unique heritage, and so many were stupendous and normally much more powerful than any of the weedy naturally aspirated opposition, such as the countless DFVs.

This myth was swatted - if you read the issue of RaceCar Engineering that talks about the engine (I'd have to confirm # later, but it was this year) and they said they tried it and it blew up almost instantly on the dyno. I kinda liked that story, as well.

Am I completely delusional or someone ran a B16 in the early 90's?

Because I clearly remeber hearing this one engine on 'Reta Oposta' here at interlagos over Senna & Mansel at 'Junção', right in front of me.

And in my dream it was a black and yelow car on lambos.

The BMW turbos for me.

BMW V10 from the Williams days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT36kC2pwAc

I've never been to an F1 race. But a friend of mine that went to one (Silverstone I think it was) in 04 said that the Macs always made a very destinctive sound. So too the hondas.

Has anyone else experienced it as such as well?

My maths are quite simple:

Ford Cosworth DFV engine = 155 wins (incl. DFY/DFZ/DFR)
Other Cosworth engines = 21 wins (HB, Zetec-R and other "non DFV" engines)
Total Cosworth wins = 176 wins

I just said that the DFV is the most successfull engine in F1 by far, with 155 wins (objective fact AFAIK). I did NOT say that Cosworth has more wins than Ferrari. I actually said they are second to Ferrari in total wins with 176.



To make it simple:

1 I agree that Ferrari has more wins than Ford/Cosworth (have never said anything else)
2 The DFV is the most "winningest" engine in F1 (note it's engine NOT engine manufacturer)

I think we agree but just got the wires mixed a little bit here

I have gone to I thing 6 Grand Epreuves I think, from Spa 1988 and last one so far Canada 2008.

All the Engines have different and very distinctive shreeks, none of the Youtube clips here in any way shape or form convey how it sound, and feel.

Ask my younger brother about the Mazda's Rotary at Le Mans.

Ask my older brother about Michael Schumacher in the rain, up Eau Rouge full blast 2004 - Which was the very very very first time EVER he saw a F1 on song.

Mazda's were as loud as anything you can imagine and then some.

The Ferrari was howling, shreeining, wailing, ground was shaking and the whole grand stand rose as they came out. And Schumacher did not lift and did not brake at all.

It is ney impossible how great it is to be live on the track.

Pictures are better at home, you see more of the race, you see what happens all over the track.

But......

EVERYONE should save up and go at least once, it is what F1 is all about.

I think I actually read recently that they DID use the cast iron production blocks: Gotta check this though.

Mclaren Mercedes Mp4/15 need i say more?

Mercedes-Benz FO110J V10 SOUND! - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjyNb3Fjo_A...feature=related

Best engine is V10 by Eddie Jordan.

At the flywheel only!

The BMW V10 from 2001 williams, was as dominant an engine there has been since the Renault of the early 90s. I think it had something like 50hp more than the next best engine of that year. It was a monster.

Those were the same words used by JV, when Williams and BAR were testing in South Africa pre-season. JV called the BMW engine a monster.

That's where it's generally measured anyway

Yeah, like I said , it broke and was a crap engine. Moss refused to race it.

But the Cosworth was used by many teams if you divide wins by # teams, Ferrari is wayy ahead.

And why should you do that? That is not relevant at all if you want to know how many victories one engine or one engine manufacturer has. What if it did it with one team or 10 teams, the ENGINE has still won 155 victories. And the engine manufacturer is listed in the FIA entrants list alongside the team, so a Cosworth is a Cosworth no matter what team it wins with.

The Cosworth DFV engine is rated at 155 wins and total Ford/Cosworth at 176. Does that mean that Ford/Cosworth at 176 also should be divided by number of different teams?

What is the most successful Ferrari engine type and how many victories does it have? Maybe Ferrari isn't wayy ahead after all?

Because historically, engines in F1 were not as reliable as today.

If you had ten engines/race as opposed to one, you were ten times more likely to win.

Today's reliability does not reflect this, but it was very common to see 4-5 blown engines a race.

I agree that it explains why the Cosworth was so successful. But it still has won 155 GP's and if Ferrari wanted to they could also have supplied the grid with engines to other teams...

Fact is that it has won 155 GP's and no other engine comes close.

The 155 victories was taken by 11 teams in total.

47 by Lotus (amongst those: 8 in the 78 season, 6 in the 70 season and 5 in 72)
29 by McLaren
23 by Tyrrell
16 by Williams

115 of the 155 victories was taken by just four teams.

http://8w.forix.com/dfv.html

Probably the engine that the F2004 had. Whenever it comes to "what is the best" questions about F1, you can usually just point to the F2004 and get it done with.

what about 2002?

DFV


You can close the thread now.

And other significant winers: Brabham, Shadow, Penske, March. Since my perspective, Ford (and Ferrari) support all the Golden Era. The roots of the modern F1

Of course Ferrari's philosophy was completely different (remember Enzo's remarks about the 'garagistes'.....). Apart from that, we'll have to remember that in the late 60s and early 70s Ferrari was really something different than what we know these days. Every few years they were sliding towards bankruptcy and were saved just in time because Enzo managed to present his firm as a kind of national treasure.
And if only because of that it would make no sense if he suddenly had started to provide the 'British enemy' with engines - even if he could (and to be sure I very much doubt if Ferrari at that time would be capable of that, certainly at a competitive price compared to the Cosworth engine).

I"m very glad that Ferrari managed to survive those days, unlike Matra and BRM.....
A look at a 1975 entry tells you all http://www.forix.com/gp.php?l=0&r=1975...amp;b=0&s=0

The British 'garagiste' constructors didn't have to worry about their engines and could focus completely on chassis development while Ferrari had to be competitive in both the chassis and engine areas.

The 2004 season set all kinds of lap records. That season was arguably the fastest season and the season where F1 was at its very pinnacle. After that the lap times on average started to tumble. Before that lap times were on average not as fast.

I mean, I may not be 100% correct, maybe lap times were even faster during the DFV days, I'd be surprised if that's true though.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the F2004 was the fastest F1, or racing car ever, right? Unless there was or is something else out there that can pull of better lap times.

And they weren't even using slicks.

Easily the Honda RA168E 1.5 V6T. That engine took 15 out of 16 victories in a season WOW

Going by that logic, the DFV won all the races in 1973.

No that's where I think your logic is flawed. For instance the late 80's is where the "Modern F1" begins. In 1973 pretty much the only engine manufacturer other than Ferrari and BRM provided engines for the entire grid. Honda only fielded 2 teams, so the odds were against it not in favor like the Ford. Pure awesome!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZMPDCNyQxE



This doesn't suck either:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9D3E9xzbVQ

Get your earplugs.

The Subaru F1 engine

nothing further need be said

Ah! yes, the wonderfully underpowered, Subaru 1235 F12. Pity it was only used for half a season and never pre-qualified.

But, there again, Coloni did not qualify even when they changed to the Ford DFR in that same year.

This is the greatest engine ever!

Ferrari V12 engines. That is how F1 engines should sound like

The H16 from the late 60's also was sweet

Some of the soundclips of the Ferrari V12 posted on this thread is just awesome. That is music and IMHO the best sound ever!!!

(Maybe we should have a thread about the best sounding F1 engines as well...???)

I personally prefer the rich, howling noise of a pre-1995 3.5 litre V-10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE1d1P07EHs the Honda V-10s were distinguished by the 'trumpeting' sound they made in addition to being powerful and reliable, that's as good as it gets when it comes to an engine