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MickyD
QUOTE (dansus @ May 4 2009, 04:14) *
I watched the Bahrain race again in an empty house, on the sofa as opposed to on the pc as normal in order to assess what Legard is doing that makes him a poor commentator and also think about what makes a good one....

The main conclusion i came to is that the person, whether it the lead, colour or pit needs to have the ability to take a moment of whats happening on the screen and tell a story round it with enthusiasm that endears the viewer to both the action and commentator themselves.

Listening to the likes of Brundle and Edwards, they seem to latch on to a moment ie the camera switches to 3 cars all tucked under each others wing, immediately, a commentator with some caliber will give you the most important information needed, then goes on to give extra information around it that is less obvious to the average viewer, carrying on with this thought to a conclusion or until something noteworthy happens on screen. All done with a sense of enthusiasm that begs of you to take notice and endears them to the audience through their sense of occasion and passion.

Like i say, its about telling a story. Its well known for generations that the one that can tell a good story round the camp fire gets the attention and applause, its human nature and applies to every aspect of life.

Unfortunately Legard doesnt posses these natural skills of flowing speech and the ability to tell a story that conveys the action and it shows with cringe worthy effect when focused and broadcast in such a way as the job of commentating on F1 does. Its not in his nature, which is why i have dubbed him 'Shopping list announcer Legard' and say he will not improve to a great degree over the next two years. I really dont want to have to put up with his inabilitys over that time, especially when there are better alternatives to be hired.

Moreover, and i only noticed this when watching again, its doubly grating when his inabilitys start effecting others, namely Brundle. I quickly noticed that Martin ends up doing much of the heavy lifting early on, constantly picking himself up and trying his best to gee Legard along. In the end theres only so much he can do without someone to bounce off and eventually resigns himself to this lower pace and suffers for it, sounding worn out in the end. He cant do Legards job and shouldnt have to, hopefully Martin himself will push the BBC to replace him.

So who could do the job, whos available? Im not sure at this point, but names i would put forward are Ben Edwards, Simon Hill, Martin Haven, maybe even Crofty at a push. Will Buxtons name has popped up recently and is currently doing the FOM feed, but what i would love to see someone new, maybe a youngster from that famous BBC broom cupboard like Jake coming in and blowing us all away.

Who knows, but for all things holy, please BBC... find a replacement for next year.


----


Well said and SPOT ON up.gif up.gif up.gif I suggest you copy this text directly onto the feedback/complaints section of the BBC website.
potmotr
Who is this alongside Maurice Hamilton at the moment?
MickyD
QUOTE (kelly_mrt @ May 6 2009, 18:57) *
Aw poor child.


Get yourself a life you big girl's blouse!


Read a book or something.


Grow up Kelly. Alexis, like most others speaks alot more sense than you.
potmotr
And another question: What is the official BBC policy on mentioning sponsors. Lee McKenzie just gave a good old plug for the latest Terminator movie. Would she do the same if she was talking about big tobacco, big oil or big beer companies?
MickyD
QUOTE (potmotr @ May 8 2009, 13:04) *
I ditched F1 Racing (after more than a decade) at the start of the year because it didn't have the depth I was looking for.

I'll pick up a copy in a few months and see if things have changed.


How can any self respecting F1 fan not subscribe to F1 Racing (especially if they still waste their money on Autosport magazine)?

Sure, F1 Racing is not what it was at the start when it had those fantastic Tom Rubython-type in depth insider articles exposing all what was wrong with some teams, etc and it has dipped since Matt Bishop left but there are still some great features - this months edition being a great example. And any mag that has Peter Windsor and Alan Henry contributing could never be bad!
potmotr
QUOTE (MickyD @ May 8 2009, 12:26) *
How can any self respecting F1 fan not subscribe to F1 Racing (especially if they still waste their money on Autosport magazine)?


Because this self respecting F1 fan got bored of it and found there was nothing interesting to read in there he had not read a hundred times before!

Simple as that for me, since the magazine changed editor.

Anyway, I don't want to slag F1 Racing off, as it remains popular and I'm sure many people enjoy it a lot.

I just felt it was in a transitional phase and had not found its feet since Bishop left.

I'll keep picking it up on occassion, and I might subscribe again one day.

As for Autosport, it is full of motorsport news! Plural of new.
djellison
QUOTE (MickyD @ May 8 2009, 13:26) *
How can any self respecting F1 fan not subscribe to F1 Racing (especially if they still waste their money on Autosport magazine)?


I don't waste my money on either.
Boing 2
motorsport has become my must read recently, 5 pages of Roebuck!! love.gif
potmotr
QUOTE (Boing 2 @ May 8 2009, 12:48) *
motorsport has become my must read recently, 5 pages of Roebuck!! love.gif


My personal favourite is the Lunch with Simon Taylor section.

He really does bring out the best in his interviees.

Anyway, back OT...
Ross Stonefeld
QUOTE (potmotr @ May 8 2009, 13:25) *
And another question: What is the official BBC policy on mentioning sponsors. Lee McKenzie just gave a good old plug for the latest Terminator movie. Would she do the same if she was talking about big tobacco, big oil or big beer companies?


The BBC crews are sponsored by Alpinestars. I think that is one of your answers.
potmotr
QUOTE (Ross Stonefeld @ May 8 2009, 13:54) *
The BBC crews are sponsored by Alpinestars. I think that is one of your answers.


Yeah, I remember discussing that the other week.

I thought that was more a clothing supply deal, strange though it is.

I seem to remember Murray Walker almost never mentioning a sponsor by name.

By contrast Peter Winsdor seems to always open his questioning at press conferences with: "From Marlboro Scuderia Ferrari..."

I'm sure there are certain guidelines at the BBC with this kind of thing. I have a mate there, I'll email him.
midgrid
QUOTE (potmotr @ May 8 2009, 13:18) *
Who is this alongside Maurice Hamilton at the moment?


It's Ian Phillips, Force India's Director of Business Affairs.
markpde
QUOTE (potmotr @ May 6 2009, 10:32) *
I think Barcelona will be the biggest challenge for Legard this year so far.

Given how well the teams know the circuit the race is usually a processional bore.

Keeping the viewer stimulated for an hour and a half could be tricky.

Personally I don't mind Legard. I find him like a football commentator. Background noise to the action, captures the peaks of the action and keeps the atmosphere bubbling along in between.

There was a cartoon in the paper during the Olympics many, many years ago where two spindly athletes are jogging around the track with sweat dripping off their noses and one of them is saying to the other, "Just take your time - Coleman will make it sound exciting whether it is or not" - a reference to the old BBC commentator David Coleman. It was like a back-handed compliment, but it was arguably the best compliment you could ever pay a commentator.

Also, Dan Maskell, the doyen of tennis commentators, said that the golden rule was never to talk over the action - his role, as he saw it, was to commentate - the emphasis being on the word 'comment'.
D.M.N.
The Mole blog: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/f1mole/2009/05/...-star-of-f.html

He blogs on GP2............ so I suggest if you are unhappy that GP2 is on Setanta, you may wish to comment at the above.wink.gif
wewantourdarbyback
QUOTE (MickyD @ May 8 2009, 13:18) *
Grow up Kelly. Alexis, like most others speaks alot more sense than you.

rolleyes.gif Opinions... people have them, it's a warning in life that they may differ from yours.
Knowlesy
QUOTE (MickyD @ May 8 2009, 13:26) *
How can any self respecting F1 fan not subscribe to F1 Racing?




QUOTE
And any mag that has Peter Windsor contributing could never be bad!


OK, it's a windup, I get it now!
Blythy
QUOTE
it has dipped since Matt Bishop left


that's the quote that gives it away. The only legacy of him is the poncey prize for best letter.

Anyways...
dank
QUOTE (D.M.N. @ May 8 2009, 16:48) *
The Mole blog: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/f1mole/2009/05/...-star-of-f.html

He blogs on GP2............ so I suggest if you are unhappy that GP2 is on Setanta, you may wish to comment at the above.wink.gif


Heh, the backlash begins!
MegaManson
Windsor is the main reason I DON'T buy F1Racing

His near homo-erotic slobbering over Hamilton and his ludicrous claim that he is better than Jim Clark drag F1Racing into the gutter, if F1Racing and particularly Windsor got their heads out of Hamilton's rectum it might become a credible mag again
Knowlesy
QUOTE (MegaManson @ May 8 2009, 19:07) *
Windsor is the main reason I DON'T buy F1Racing

His near homo-erotic slobbering over Hamilton and his ludicrous claim that he is better than Jim Clark drag F1Racing into the gutter, if F1Racing and particularly Windsor got their heads out of Hamilton's rectum it might become a credible mag again


Never was a credible mag.

And Windsor always sucks off the top man in F1, whilst using pretentious BS pharses such as 'friction circle' and 'whatever ellipse'. The guy should be banned from planet earth.
dank
QUOTE (MegaManson @ May 8 2009, 19:07) *
Windsor is the main reason I DON'T buy F1Racing

His near homo-erotic slobbering over Hamilton and his ludicrous claim that he is better than Jim Clark drag F1Racing into the gutter, if F1Racing and particularly Windsor got their heads out of Hamilton's rectum it might become a credible mag again


Can't help but think we have gone COMPLETELY off topic here, but, have you read it at all recently? I'm not saying it's the best thing since slice bread, because well, it isn't. It's ok, nothing amazing, but neither is it as bad as some folk actually make it out to be. Their Hamilton-loving seems to have died down since he won the championship in November.

As for Windsor. I only hope that his USF1 duties will mean he'll have to jack his F1 job in, it's awful, but it's only what, two pages out of 100+?
P123
QUOTE (Knowlesy @ May 8 2009, 19:27) *
Never was a credible mag.

And Windsor always sucks off the top man in F1, whilst using pretentious BS pharses such as 'friction circle' and 'whatever ellipse'. The guy should be banned from planet earth.


roflmao.gif So true. If Schumacher were chocolate Windsor would have eaten him many times over!
MinT
All this magazine stuff is very interesting but can we get back to slagging off Legard now ?
Welsh
QUOTE (kelly_mrt @ May 6 2009, 12:55) *
far too much complaining about commentators, imho.

really, do you watch F1 for the racing or for the listening?

I think JA writes very well, but he wasn't the best commentator of all time, and for that matter, Murray got away with a great deal of nonsense because he was the Grandfather of commentary. So loveable he was given grace for many a mistake that many an inbound reporter would have been fired for.

So Legard isn't so great? So what? He's not so bad, Martin is still there and the racing is still there. Job done.

I'd give Legard a season or two to hone his skills. Particularly this year where there's so much going on, its hardly as though a ringmaster is needed to bump the excitement.

For that matter - what would people like in a "great" commentator? I find it hard to answer this for myself - let's face it, not all candidates are true petrol-heads, and not all viewers either. I barely notice him, so I suppose he doesn't offend me at all, but I don't know what else to look for. I think Croft and Davidson do very well indeed on the webfeed, but others have their doubts.

So who do you think would do well? I'd vote Brundle in without hesitation, but Brundle and Davidson? Could do well but I doubt it would ever be signed off. Brundle and Croft? Maybe.

True

If people think Legard is bad, they should listen and watch the F1 race before Murray - Now Raymond Baxtor is actually a very good voice over chap - but his commentating on F1 was er well different should I say.

However with 3 choices of commentary teams, I find these complaints a bit silly tbh.
Gilles12
QUOTE (Welsh @ May 9 2009, 11:01) *
True

If people think Legard is bad, they should listen and watch the F1 race before Murray - Now Raymond Baxtor is actually a very good voice over chap - but his commentating on F1 was er well different should I say.

However with 3 choices of commentary teams, I find these complaints a bit silly tbh.


The problem with the choice of commentary teams is that Brundle is only part of one

He brings so much to the broadcast that he's essential - so anyone who partners him, and by default interupts him, better be good

Leggard isn't
Ross Stonefeld
QUOTE (Gilles12 @ May 9 2009, 12:10) *
The problem with the choice of commentary teams is that Brundle is only part of one

He brings so much to the broadcast that he's essential - so anyone who partners him, and by default interupts him, better be good

Leggard isn't


Brundle isn't that spectacular just like Legard isn't the worst commentator in the world.
Imperial
QUOTE (Welsh @ May 9 2009, 12:01) *
However with 3 choices of commentary teams, I find these complaints a bit silly tbh.



Do you know what? I personally am sick of people 'advising' those who don't like Legard to switch over to the Radio5 or frigging CBBC commentary.

What will it take for some people to understand that Legard is simply being tolerated solely because the main commentary is the only place where we can hear MARTIN BRUNDLE? Brundle, aside from Ben Edwards, is arguably the best motorsport commentator in the UK presently and people want to listen to him. Unfortunately we have to listen to Legard at the same time and THAT is the crux of viewers complaints.

Please people stop suggesting viewers turn over. If your new car was broke you'd have it fixed, you wouldn't scrap it and buy another new car. The main BBC commentary is broken and needs to be fixed, not replaced.
DOF_power
>
^ The coverage for the practice is horrible.
Some morons where talking about budget caps, weight penalties and so forth and then tried to justify it by saying it's a spectator sport.

I thought motorsport was about excellence and rewarding it. Oh well I guess I too old for this contemporary driver racertainment circus.
Madras
QUOTE (Imperial @ May 9 2009, 12:26) *
Please people stop suggesting viewers turn over. If your new car was broke you'd have it fixed, you wouldn't scrap it and buy another new car. The main BBC commentary is broken and needs to be fixed, not replaced.


Legard never worked to start with, so good luck fixing him...
Gilles12
Is Jake Humphrey developing mini man boobs?
Madras
QUOTE (Gilles12 @ May 9 2009, 12:53) *
Is Jake Humphrey developing mini man boobs?


Yes, I think it's because Lee isnt getting much air time, he's been told to grow some.
Madras
"Kovaleinen..on a charge then..."

roflmao.gif
potmotr
I don't know why Legard prompts such utter hatred. He isn't that bad. He keeps the abll moving along quite nicely. Quite funny slip up at the start of Q1 "Fernando Anando"
harrows
BBC commentators managed to realise KR was out a full 10 minutes after the live forum.

Also, Coulthard's little agenda is starting to become ridiculous.
markpde
Legard: "Two Finns out - Finns [fings] are only getting worse..." You've got to give him credit for trying. smile.gif
potmotr
QUOTE (harrows @ May 9 2009, 13:27) *
Also, Coulthard's little agenda is starting to become ridiculous.


How can it be an agenda? He's now working as a journalist and is paid to offer his opinion. His opinion is that Kimi isn't working hard enough. Many would agree with that.
tarmac
QUOTE (potmotr @ May 9 2009, 13:29) *
How can it be an agenda? He's now working as a journalist and is paid to offer his opinion. His opinion is that Kimi isn't working hard enough. Many would agree with that.


He´s clearly talking out of his ass anyway. Just like Eddie Jordan.

He has no idea whether is solely Kimi´s decision to go out or not
potmotr
This bit with DC talking about Kimi Raikkonen's lap is embarrassing. It is clearly an outlap...
D.M.N.
QUOTE (Gilles12 @ May 9 2009, 14:21) *
WTF?!

No red button coverage ? Horse jumping?


Interactive Forum only happens after the race.

This is Brundle at his best:

Radio: Heiki were you held up by the BMW?
MB (off mic) : No
Heikki: For the last three corners yes
MB (off mic) : You're avin a laff.
Gilles12
I'm pretty sure they had an interactive forum at the last races - after quali

And my Virgin box is telling me that Horse Jumping is on Freeview and F1 is available on non-freeview only??????
D.M.N.
QUOTE (Gilles12 @ May 9 2009, 14:29) *
I'm pretty sure they had an interactive forum at the last races - after quali

And my Virgin box is telling me that Horse Jumping is on Freeview and F1 is available on non-freeview only??????


They've only had Interactive Forum after the actual races, I'm 110% certain of that.

When for? If you're on about the re-run loop then that will probably be case. Please be specific, otherwise how they hell am I meant to know what you're on about? rolleyes.gif
potmotr
QUOTE (Madras @ May 9 2009, 14:23) *
"He's on a charge"
"Round the final corner"
"He's battling on"
"Now what can this man do?"
"Down the hill"
"Can he make it?"
"Up the hill"


I know, I know. smile.gif

But for some reason Legard doesn't grate with me.

I find him like back ground music in a movie, rising with the tension, slowing with the lulls.

I really of think he's like a football commentator: "To Beckham. Quick pass to Rooney. To Pele. Back to Beckham."
Gilles12

OK, So straight after quali I press the red button

The menu comes up and on the right hand side and says

"Press 1 for Badmington Horse Trials / F1*"

* For non-Freeview only


Maybe I went to the menu too soon

Why isn't there post Quali reaction on the red button? What am I supposed to do now? Talk to the wife?
D.M.N.
QUOTE (Gilles12 @ May 9 2009, 14:38) *
OK, So straight after quali I press the red button

The menu comes up and on the right hand side and says

"Press 1 for Badmington Horse Trials / F1*"

* For non-Freeview only


Maybe I went to the menu too soon

Why isn't there post Quali reaction on the red button? What am I supposed to do now? Talk to the wife?


You probably did go to the menu too soon, it does take time to update.

And there has never been post-qualifying reaction on the Red Button, so I have no idea where you got that idea from.
Gilles12
QUOTE (D.M.N. @ May 9 2009, 14:42) *
You probably did go to the menu too soon, it does take time to update.

And there has never been post-qualifying reaction on the Red Button, so I have no idea where you got that idea from.


frown.gif
hsvone
QUOTE (potmotr @ May 9 2009, 14:36) *
I know, I know. smile.gif

But for some reason Legard doesn't grate with me.

I find him like back ground music in a movie, rising with the tension, slowing with the lulls.

I really of think he's like a football commentator: "To Beckham. Quick pass to Rooney. To Pele. Back to Beckham."


I have to agree with you on this. But I've always been a Brundle fan and it's Martin that is the key. Having said that I think Ben Edwards would have been a fantastic choice alongside MB. up.gif

I also enjoy the more experienced commentary that Maurice Hamilton and Ian Phillips provide. OK maybe they take longer to get their words out but that story of Maurice' at Montjuich Park was fascinating. I remember seeing a picture of a car airborne at that circuit. They give a different insight as older gentlemen to a younger generation like myself. In 1975 I was barely 2 years old!
potmotr
QUOTE (hsvone @ May 9 2009, 15:13) *
Having said that I think Ben Edwards would have been a fantastic choice alongside MB. up.gif


See, I can't stand Ben Edwards! To each is own, and therein lies the extreme difficulty in chosing a commentator...
MinT
Legard didnt seem as bad to me today - I guess the test will be over 90 processional minutes tomorrow.
dansus
QUOTE (Welsh @ May 9 2009, 12:01) *
However with 3 choices of commentary teams, I find these complaints a bit silly tbh.


Theres only one choice of commentary on BBC1 and 5L is often 5s+ out of sync. In some races as in todays quali, theres no choice at all on freeview, its Legard or nothing.

Plus why should i be pushed out to the inferior BBCi picture just because the main comm is poor. If BBC put natural sound on the second audio feed, you wouldnt here a peep out of me.
dank
QUOTE (MinT @ May 9 2009, 15:51) *
Legard didnt seem as bad to me today - I guess the test will be over 90 processional minutes tomorrow.


I did have to turn the sound down towards the end when he felt the need to raise his voice a few hundred decibels to tell me that Button had got pole.
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