The cheque from the BBC helps.

Actually I think you mean:-

Coming right after Interlagos just highlights what its missing - Rain during Qualifying to mix up the grid.


If Abu Dabi had started with the Brazilian grid, we'd all be raving about how much overtaking there was.

I have a feeling most of these guys are pissed off McLaren / Ferrari fans ...

I have absolutely no favourite team or driver just a wish to be tolerably entertained by a bunch of motorcars going round and round.

Have you ever thought it might all be in your mind? If you look at the overtaking analysis thread, you'll see there hasn't really been a sizeable decrease in overtaking since 1994. Everyone qualified in real order this race, which is the whole point of qualifying, so why would you expect people to be passing each other all over the place?

If you didn't - what was boring about it? Not enough crashes? Explosions? Bright flashy colours?

Sure, the infrastructure was spectacular, if vulgar, but frankly who cares? The track was pretty dull and not even the outside chance of a shower to spice things up.

It says everything about the direction of the sport when Bernie presents this as an exemplar.

It's an absolute joke. Tilke might be able to do the facilities bit, but the man has no clue how to design a proper racetrack.

When Hamilton retired, the race was effectively over and became a bore fest. The only excitement offered in that race was by Button. His battle with Kobayashi and his tussle with Mark "The Chopper" Webber. Nice circuit though. It was an amazing place visually to look at.

The track looks cool though, I can imagine that it is the perfect place for making sci-fi movies in twenty years or so. Imagine how it will look after being abandoned for 15 years. Spaceships arrive and see traces of an abandoned civilization. Maybe there is an abandoned F1 car in the pit lane. The hero starts it up, makes a lap and comes in again: "Wonder why the f****k they build such a quick car and then they make a track where it is impossible to use any of the cars potential? No wonder they are extinct, let's get the hell out of here".

For me, that is the biggest dilemma in F1 right now. They build cars that is fast as hell, then they slow them down artificially by various limiters, lousy tires and tracks that are built to annoy.

I'm with you!

So I need to trawl through squillions of stats, analyse the data and compare it to what's currently happening on track? If I was that anally retentive I'd apply for a job with an F1 team and get to sit there staring at screen full of numbers every race weekend.

The thing is, it's always very different when you're there then you watch it on TV.

I thought it was a nice GP, not really fantastic or wauw for a classic but still fun and intresting to watch: overtaking, a suprise DNF, a blooper, a great track and scenery...

It sounds like you really don't enjoy the sport any more, perhaps it's time to move on.

Another shaft of intellectual power pierces the gloom, such reasoning, such perspicacity, such trash.

Then there were attempts, failed and successful; now there are seldom even attempts.

This circuit had a long straight and almost a hairpin at the end of it, but no, they had to stick a bloody chicane in 50 metres before the hairpin,; result, no serious opportunities to pass.

The cars still run with carbon fibre brakes and front wings the size of a hotel reception area, and what do they do, fiddle about with KERS, allow 6 degrees of movable aerodynaimic device at the front.

The solution is not rocket science - NO FRONT WINGS If there are no wings at the front, there is nothing to be disturbed by turbulent air; the rear wings would HAVE to be smaller or the cars would understeer into the nearest solid object. The braking distances would be longer, so more space in which to overtake.

Next FERROUS brakes - This would increase braking distances by between 50% and 100% on its own.

Downside? Loss of 2 square metres of mobile advertising hoarding................. That's settled then - Keep the front wings, after all, the point of F1 is advertising.

Bloggsworth I'm not arguing with you. We've all been suggesting things for the past 10 years. Things were looking good at getting the cars to run in dirty air this season until the double diffuser cancelled out the new front and rear wing.

Things have been like this pretty much since 1995 and yet we've still seen guys overtaking around the outside in both of the last 2 races.

I prefer GP2 in any case and the off-track politics were great when Max Mosley was in charge. The fact that F1 can't provide decent entertainment doesn't bother me all that much - I'll either not bother watching or else (like yesterday) have it on in the background while I do more important and rewarding stuff like laundry.


The bit about these new tracks that amuses me is that Uncle Bernie states that the European circuits are rubbish and don't deserve a Grand Prix. Yet all thse far-flung races have to go on at weird hours (local time) so that the European audience gets to tune in at a time that's convenient for them. Why else the planet-raping gimmick of the Abu Dhabi GP changing from starting in the dusk to finishing under floodlights at night?

I found it spectacular and I think most of the drivers, paddock and fans did too.

TYRES, TYRES, TYRES, TYRES...................................

The REASON why we had a great scrap at the end was for one reason and one reason only...TYRES! Jenson suddenly had a set of tyres that worked on his car perfectly...Mark's not so much. as I have been saying for god knows how long now.... variation in tyres on cars, is what will actually creates GREAT racing.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with this circuit, in fact the dice with JB and MW showed just how the circuit could provide some superb excitement as could ANY circuit... if you have one driver absolutely loving his tyres and another hating his....

How?... MASSIVE variation in just two tyre specs that are set for the year. One set SUPER SOFT...and one set HARD, they have to change each compound at least once in the race, some teams may start on the hard option and some on the soft option...result... OVERTAKING...
They may ALL start on the soft option tyre ....and some drivers burn them out within 8 laps...others make them last 25..... result.... OVERTAKING....

The last lap battle showed the aero difference HAS been reduced now between the cars, but overall TYRES are king in deciding overtaking capability and most importantly, placing the use of said tyres and their wear rate at the hands of the driver...NOT the tyre company to provide a tyre that everyone can simply go flat out on ALL of the time...Force the drivers to conserve their tyres...or truly have to balance the car better to get the hard option to work as quickly as possible through the corner...

It has always been and will always be.... TYRES that create the excitment, which is why wet races are so exciting.... the aero becomes ineffective in the wet and the physical grip your tyres give...decide how fast you can go...DEPENDING on your skill as a driver!...

For example...you put Seb Loeb in an F1 car with really hard tyres.... THEN you get to see what car control is all about..... Just as in the old days where tyres didnt give a huge amount of grip....its was the drivers with stunning car control that shone through...THATS what F1 should be all about...

When drivers of a similar standard all have the same tyres and the tyres let them simply go flat out, the difference becomes the car and not the driver... Make tyres the deciding factor and THEN you will get racing back.... simple really.

Those last laps of Button and Webbr were truly superb...and if we had that at every race, due to different people running VERY different compounds at any given moment... you wold get some stunning races... Give me a bunch of F1 cars and driver and a bunch of hard and soft compound tyres, HUGELY different in spec...and I'll prove it.

I would also like to concur that I thought it was stunning to look at and truly mind blowing how much they did in such a short space of time... exceptional.

This was actually a decent race and the track allowed some action. This track is no worse than Barcelona or Nurburgring. Sure it is not Spa, but it is far far better than Valencia.

These races is what you get in F1 these days, no matter the track. I actually think this is one of Tilkes better attempts. If the cars cannot overtake at Monza, how do you expect them to pass anywhere?

It´s all a case of perspective really. I think if you see modern F1 racing as a one on one, on track battle between two cars, you are going to be very disappointed.
Being a sad old fart (I think that´s what someone called me yesterday ) I grew up with racing where cars actually passed each other and drivers fought for position using their skill to overcome their opponents. It was great stuff, but with the technological advances in aero development and downforce, that came to an end.
Other things have been introduced to spice it up, like pit stops and the like, and I must say that once I got over the actual lack of on track overtaking, I started to see the races in a completely different light. It´s far more of a chess game nowadays, and has it´s attraction if you concentrate on every aspect of the race.
I really enjoyed yesterday´s race, although I hate the actual track, something I alluded to on Friday and was shot down in flames because Jackie Stewart said it was great. Dear me, I was even called a hater for expressing that opinion.
Glad to see I´m not the only "hater" on here.

Yes, I can and I think most Tilke tracks get the shaft for no reason. I can remember a lot of overtakes on these tracks in the dry / wet whatever. Bahrain, Sepang, China and Turkey have all had more good races than not. Go back and rewatch these past races before broad- brushing all the tracks. Better yet, dig up some historical overtaking stats., these tracks vs. the classics [Spa, Silverstone, Monza, Suzuka] and I bet you get a shock.

There is no need to apologize to these morons that only come here to complain about how shitty they think F1 is.

I say to them if they don't like the way F1 is today then piss off and find another sport to follow.

Also the middle sector of Hockenheim (the Tilke bit).

So people who have been dedicated fans their entire lives, who are now unhappy about the direction their sport is taking, should just keep quiet, take it, and move on?

Just because we don't want our sport mutilated by a bunch of incompetents, makes us morons in your eyes?

This is a forum. If you kick out people who disagree with you then there is no discussion because then everyone has the same opinion as you.

Then maybe someone should start a "whiner" thread where they can complain all they want and other posters can avoid it.

i thought it was a stunning race, enjoyed every minute of it.
there hasn't been any overtaking in 10 years, you guys are a bit slow on the uptake.

Ditto.

Read the title of the thread again. It was obvious it was about how boring the race was so you could've avoided it quite easily.

It's 15 years now actually!

Actually, I think you're right.

The whiners do need a place to vent and I guess this thread is as good as any place.

So I'll leave them to it.