Okay, so Jaime Alguersuari and Romain Grosjean had another disappointing run. The lack of testing is really hurting them, and their inexpeirence is really showing during races. So I'm wondering if we can't brainstorm some ideas to get around the testing ban. I know it's easy to say that they should simply relax the ban, but I'm not going to let you off that lightly - I want you to assume the ban is still in place.

One suggestion that Bernie Ecclestone made - and one of his most sensible at that - was to allow teams to test on the Monday after a Grand Prix. They obviously couldn't do it at every venue, but if they nominated certain races in advance, it could work. After all, one of the reasons in-season testing was banned was to cut down on the transportation costs. But if you're already at the circuit, you don't incur any more costs.

An idea that I had would be the establishing of a special team for testing purposes only, run by the FIA. The main problem with allowing rookies to test is that their team could easily use it to get the usual testing data, thereby getting an unfair advantage. But if the car was made by someone other than the teams and the staff who go with the driver had no connection to the team wanting to give a driver a test (save for one or two representatives), it could work: the driver gets a test, the team gets confidence and the FIA is satisfied no-one gets an unfair advantage. Now, I'm not suggesting that the FIA pour time and money into developing their own car because they don't have to. Lola built a chassis for racing in 2010, but didn't get a grid position. Then they decided to set themselves up as a design studio in the hopes that someone would take them up and run their chassis. It seemed like a good idea for Lotus, but they never took it up (I suspect Mike Gascoyne was already well into development of a chassis for Litespeed-Lotus and just transferred the projet over when the Malaysians got the gig). So there's a chassis lying around that no-one is using or will use (though if the rumours about Dallara not meeting Campos' deadlines are true, Campos could use it), and it wouldn't be to hard to convene a team made up of former personnel.

Any other suggestions? How do we give rookie drivers experience when there is a testing ban?

Request teams hire rookies similar to Sebastien Buemi and Kamui Kobayashi.

How do we explain Kobayashi's performances then ?

Some pick up a skill much quicker than others, but it does not mean the one that picks it up slower will be a worse performer in the long run. Many examples of this in sport from a youngster taking time to develop etc... There is no such program for F1 now. IMO there should be some way to have a 3rd driver in there, and bring back testing in more controlled manner so all teams get equal time.

Allow X amount of testing, but only allow drivers with less than a seasons worth of Grand Prix experience (or whatever number) to do it.

Kamui has hundreds of laps of experience on a Toyota F1 when testing was allowed.

And as Brundle pointed out during the race, sometimes drivers thrive in the sportlight. Othertimes, they collapse.

Just put them in a 1 or 2 year old F1 car on GP2 tires, and pound the tracks of the world. Ferrari have shown that is possible and legal, so no stopping all teams from doing the same.

Make it so that in FP1 teams have to run at least one rookie, or nobody.

The commercial owners of the sport pay for testing days for the teams. Transport, track costs, the full caboodle.

Hey if we're going to engage in pointless discussion we may as well come up with pointless solutions too.

Shall we discuss pointless forum posts and the members who made them as well? Because I'm sure you'll feature as subject of discussion there.

Bottom line is that if you don't have anything to contribute, don't contribute anything at all.

How about an additional Friday session that only reserve/test/young driver can be used?

It has to be a "historical" car, built from a different set of regulations. It does not help a new driver much, but it would help "retired" drivers to get an idea if they still have F1 speed and stamina in them.

A Friday test session for reserve/new drivers only is the best idea I've seen so far. It could replace FP1 or be an additional session. A Monday test session extends the race meeting and will cost more for all concerned. (How many venues are already making a loss on a Fomula One event?) How many team personnel will really feel like spending an extra day working on a test just after a race? What about teams whose car(s) are badly damaged after the race?

You beat me to it. Its nothing to do with testing, its to do with their race craft and as Brundle says, "ambition ahead of adhesion" In short Alguersuari and Grosjean have shown no natural turn of speed, whilst in F1. At least with Buemi you can sometimes see a turn of speed and light at the end of the tunnel. A turn of speed doesn't develop late in your career, you usually see it right from the beginning. You've seen it with Kobayashi, during the Abu Dhabi GP. The same with Rosberg when he first came along and tore up Bahrain, Massa(dispite being a bit erratic), with Alonso when at Minardi, Raikkonen when at Sauber, Vettel when at Toro Rosso and of course Hamilton. Grosjean and Alguersuari have shown jack s**t in terms of pace. Extra testing will not help these two at all. They just dont have it to begin with.

Hang on a second.

In your first paragraph you say the testing ban must stay in place, but that people's suggestions must get around the ban.

You follow that up with a suggestion that would break the testing ban.

In your third paragraph you suggest new drivers test in the sole concept chassis built by lola, which has never been track tested let alone completed, and will also behave completely different to any cars they would be racing next year.

In fact my post seems much more likely, and even fits your unnecessary limitations on discussion, but apologies for doubting your grand scheme of a thread.

Testing on the MONDAY after a race at 8 races during the year is the answer as the teams are already there anyway and testing after the race won't turn the race into a procession. Perhaps also make the rule that only dirvers who have made 18 GP starts or less may test.

Ok, it looks like we are ignoring the whole 'beat the test ban' mantra by the OP - good.

The real problem here is the engine, gearbox and tyre quota. If they can slot two open and free test sessions on Friday morning we'd start to see more running. Of course it would add a fair bit of gear, and hence shipping costs go up, but 2 hours x 19 odd races is a whole lot of testing.

You don't think getting the required safety staff and marshalls for an extra day might pose a problem? Many of these are volunteers who have had to take time off work already, another day might prove impracticle for them. An extra session on the Friday would be easier as everyone required will already be there.

I'm all for increased car time for inexperienced drivers but, to be honest, slow learners in any discipline rarely impress me. I guess I'm just a snob that way. Not saying testing wouldn't help the likes of Grosjean, I'm sure it would, but all the testing in the world doesn't change essential qualities that certain rookies, regardless of past performance, sometimes miss after a jump to a new level.

In keeping with the topic, I'm a fan of adding a post-event testing day to select races. With no testing, my concern is that promising talent that is fast but not polished might be let go too soon in the constant search for super-performing-right-from-race-one rookies that's become the norm following the instant success of guys like Hamilton.

Getting marshalls never seemed to be a problem for 30 years whilst in season testing was allowed. I'm not sure that one extra session would crack it.

The other way to solve this problem is rather blue sky, but that is to have F2 using cars MUCH closer to F1. Perhaps Williams should just make copies of their 2010 car as the F2 car and Cosworth to build long life variants of their 2010 lump to power it.

To me it's quite simple, every team has a third driver at the weekend (can be a GP2 driver), they must take part in one of the Friday Practice Sessions instead of a main driver. They use an old chassis, old tyres and are only allowed 4 engines and gearboxes all season, easy!

or

Have one test of an official test session every other month at a circuit (and nation?) that doesn't have a grand prix. Each team must run a rookie during the test session and these can be run at circuits like, Portimao, Zandvoort, Magny-Cours, etc. That way rookies get tested and crowds can come along (and pay?) to see Formula One action if they can't get to a grand prix.

or just let the teams test on monday with whoever they want

if they want to use it for parts testing with their main drivers that's fine, if you want to use it to evaluate a new driver then do that

everything is already there at the end of the weekend, the only problems would be they'd have a day less to pack up and transport to the next race

Some of it is also the instructions given by the team. I think for Jaime it was "just toddle around and finish the race, boy." <pats Jaime on head>

For Kamui it was "all right then, let's see what you can do> <slaps Kamui on back>

No. Also a test day requires far less marshalls and other staff than a race day so i don't see the problem.