You see that wouldn't have happened with a DBW throttle .... Wait wot!

What model Peugeot van was that, Zoe?

I never knew you were a Peugeotphile.

Sorry for the late reply, I was on holiday and off the net.... It's a 1996 Peugeot 806 van. I got it from my dad who wanted to cash it in the German "cash for clunkers" program. I talked him out from it and got it basically for free (we clunkered and cashed in my Volkswagen instead). With all gimmicks loaded and huge space it is basically a very useful car, besides having a problem with an anchor plate for the rear brakes broken and no replacement available.....
Anyway I wouldn't call myself a Peugeotphile, quite on the contrary, but I got the car for free and its quite useful.....

Zoe

A pragmatist, then... Admirable!

You see a lot of pragmatists driving Peugeot vans.

I save my passion (and energy) for my Cadillacs and my Celica Supra ;)

Zoe

Toymota is in the news again with a 150000 car recall due to pssible leaking brakes. OOoops!
At this rate of recall they are below Kia in standings now.

Now announced 30000 in Autralia from 04 models onwards. Oh what a recall!!

What are they citing?

I recently noticed that the front floor mat of my wife's Yaris was in the boot, by the way. It's a 2007 model she bought new and she's not had any problems with it, so I asked her...

"They told me it might jam the accelerator," she said, "and they told me to take it out. And no, it's not that there's any problem with the car!"

Toyota dealers here, therefore, have been keeping a close eye on things and trying to ensure owners recognise floor mats as a potential problem.

Today the US D.O.T issued a report that said NASA could find no electrical cause for unintended acceleration.

Perhaps it is beating a dead horse, but the NASA report performed for the NHTSA trying to find a shred of reality to support LaHood's fantasies is in. Electronics not at fault in Toyota character assassination.

I dont think that reporty will totally ease peoples thoughts. It seems the electronic pedals are to blame.
The mention though f accident data oggers for all vehicles really is so spid, it will add considerably to the cost of a vehicle.
Standardised ignition controls though are a very good idea, though standardised controls would be even better. eg wipers, turn signals, ignition switch etc all in the same general location, right hand, left hand etc.
What is a brake override? is that like cruise conrol where hitting the brake cancels the throttle. That will make it impossible to drive with 2 feet, 1 on the brake and one on the go like a LOT of us do.If that is the case I do not want one!

Basic functionality could be done for almost zero cost. A bit of programming and some memory to record all the signals (that already exist) integrated into the control unit(s).

'A bit of programming'



I've spent most of my career on projects that are late because software is perpetually dismissed as trivial.

At the auto-maker level, programming basic logging would be a trivial task.

Well, NASA once couldn't find a difference between inch and centimeters

Zoe

I'll make a judgement and say you're not a software engineer.

Why would basic logging necessarily be trivial? Sure, an OEM can bring a lot of man-power to bear but their ECU software architecture may be completely unsuited for global logging and could require a complete re-write, somewhat unlikely I'd agree but I've seen it before on software projects larger than what goes into an engine ECU. Their ECU hardware may already be stretched in processing capacity or memory with no immediate plans to address this. Their software process may be quite immature and unable to cope with a change that impacts on a broad level and production logging is one of those aspects that is all pervasive throughout code.

If software is so trivial, why was NASA (Inch/cm blind spots not-withstanding) commissioned to investigate Toyota's software?

(No. Not a software engineer.)

- I say trivial because the % increase in ECU functionality required is miniscule.
- All OEM ECU's already incorporate logging at various levels.
- Many (including Toyota) are already logging at the level that would be required to provide a basic data snapshot of the period prior to engine stop (or some other defined event such as airbag deployment).
- ECU development falls to a specialised division within the company (Denso, Delco etc) or often an outside supplier (Bosch, Siemens, Delphi etc). Corporations like Bosch have traditionally driven HW/FW/SW development and innovation. I guarantee for example, that basic "flight recorder" logging would be available as an upgrade, at very short notice to OEMs using Bosch engine management.
- At the OEM level, amortisation over a large number of vehicles means that the cost of pure development (no hardware or tooling) have little impact on unit costing.

In regard to data logging, in virtually all passenger vehicles it's already in there in two different boxes -- ECU and SRS. It needs only to be configured. Toyota took some heat on this most recent deal because its electronics are obfuscated for such purposes.

I don't intend to offend but it shows.

NASA's guarded report by no means indicates there's no problem.

I look forward to seeing more complete reporting, but I also would suggest that it's possible Toymotor has now eliminated the problem and re-programmed all cars during the course of their recalls and other servicing.

Get a grip. NASA was brought in because the NHTSA couldn't find anything and Ray LaHood/Osama/GM really wanted something found. If NASA found a misspelling in the code it would have been reported.

I had heard that NASA was conducting the tests on cars that were the subject of complaints and that they were not randomly chosen.

Because NASA did such a bang-up jump recognizing potential problems with the Challenger and Columbia shuttle disasters, then conducted its investigations of same with such thoroughness and precision. Not to mention OCO, Mars Climate Orbiter, Mars Polar Lander, DART, Deep Space 2, Hubble...These guys are experts at trouble, if not identifying and fixing it.

More to the point: How many people and man-hours did NASA engage on the Toyota investigation? What methodologies and processes did they employ? What people did they bring in or expertise did they consult? Anybody know?

Not very much automotive experience, but they did give Hubble some glasses!! At about a billion dollar cost.

Offend? I take that as a compliment actually.

I was amused at this but BAD LANGUAGE WARNING - if you are offended by the F WORD don't click on this ...

http://www.streetfire.net/video/2010-toyot...-fix_741241.htm

He should work for the BBC.

Or TISM.

That will go over the top of just about everybody here ...

A little help;

http://www.google.com/search?num=20&hl...sa=N&tab=wi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TISM

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/225760/

I did it just for you!

My favourite is TISM I Might Be A ****, But I'm Not A ****ing **** (sorry cheapy it is on youtube so you won't be able to sing along with the rest of us)

I checked 'em out, only heard one number, liked it! They are like a sophisticated version of The Macc Lads.

Try (He'll Never Be An) Old Man River
The best bit is the Michael Jackson punch line.

This is one of those occasions I wish I had sound on this computer...

Oh well, it will have to wait!